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Thread: 1811 A Comet and A Quake

  1. #101  
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    Exactly!, who is the "they", you tell me, it is not stated anywhere. All I've seen is "a group of geologists", and this is most recently, just happened. In 1940 geologists determined that the CRATERS were from a meteor shower from a comet 129 years ago, that's right 1811! Since this time, this information has been distorted to say "scientists in the 30s and 40s dtermined these depressions to be 12,900 years old. Now think about that, first it turned into a whole decade of scientists, then add a couple of zeros and "wallah". Why wouldn't the scientists in the "30s and 40s" have just said about 13,000 years ago, why 12,900, and why a whole decade of scientists? Read between the lines!

    The forest hill formation, what? What would give someone the idea that dating a hill formation would give a date of when a tree nearby was petrified? And, how could these trees be there for 35 or 36 MILLION years, all together, in the same place, with such little decay, and supposedly on a flood plane? Anyway, where did you see that this is how they were dated, and who dated them? I really did look everywhere, I guess.

    Just the two volcanoes in question, "Burning Mountain" and "Midnight", who found them, and how did they find them in 1860 or 1819 or whenever?
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 12th, 2011 at 09:36 PM.
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  2. #102  
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    Exactly!, who is the "they", you tell me, it is not stated anywhere. All I've seen is "a group of geologists", and this is most recently, just happened. In 1940 geologists determined that the CRATERS were from a meteor shower from a comet 139 years ago, that's right 1811! Since this time, this information has been distorted to say "scientists in the 30s and 40s dtermined these depressions to be 13,900 years old. Now think about that, first it turned into a whole decade of scientists, then add a couple of zeros and "wallah". Why wouldn't the scientists in the "30s and 40s" have just said about 14,000 years ago, why 13,900, and why a whole decade of scientists? Read between the lines!
    A rather long winded way to say "I don't know," regardless of whether you think there's some duplicity because someone didn't round up to the nearest thousand years.


    Just the two volcanoes in question, "Burning Mountain" and "Midnight"
    Coordinates? Where do you think they are....
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    Oops, my bad, clear this up, meant to say 129. The geologists in 1940 said the depressions are craters from a meteor shower from a comet 129 years ago. So, 1940-129=1811. It was changed, recently to say, scientists in the 30s and 40s determined the depressions to be 12,900 years old. Why not just say 13,000? Because it was changed!

    The two volcanoes: the one referred to as "Burning Mountain" is directly underneath The Jackson Coliseum, the one nicknamed "Midnight" is underneath Humphreys County.
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    What geologists are those? Where is the report, so I can read it?
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    Here you go, A RE-EVALUATION OF THE EXTRATERRESTRIAL ORIGIN OF THE CAROLINA BAYS A Re-evaluation of the Extraterrestrial Origin of The Carolina Bays, you can just go down to "Reasearch Implications of a Cometary Model", and read the "Conclusions" also. And yes, I see the dates, but they are just dating the soil deposits and not the time the impacts occurred. Pay attention to the direction, going to the northwest, same as my impact theory. Makes sense coming from low on the horizon, out of the Southern Hemisphere, as was stated by Herschel. I realise there are arguements for and against, but it is much more likely from extraterrestrial origin, and highly likely it happened in 1811. The rich soil contained in and around the depressions is easily eroded, and there's a high probability, that being on the coast with rich soil, that this land would have been cultivated and have signs of development in any of the long time frames considered.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Exactly!, who is the "they", you tell me, it is not stated anywhere. All I've seen is "a group of geologists", and this is most recently, just happened. In 1940 geologists determined that the CRATERS were from a meteor shower from a comet 139 years ago, that's right 1811! Since this time, this information has been distorted to say "scientists in the 30s and 40s dtermined these depressions to be 13,900 years old. Now think about that, first it turned into a whole decade of scientists, then add a couple of zeros and "wallah". Why wouldn't the scientists in the "30s and 40s" have just said about 14,000 years ago, why 13,900, and why a whole decade of scientists? Read between the lines!
    What geologists said they were 139 years old, you provide the reference for that part and we will work form there. I refuse to buy into any conspiracy theories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    The forest hill formation, what? What would give someone the idea that dating a hill formation would give a date of when a tree nearby was petrified? And, how could these trees be there for 35 or 36 MILLION years, all together, in the same place, with such little decay, and supposedly on a flood plane? Anyway, where did you see that this is how they were dated, and who dated them? I really did look everywhere, I guess.
    Ugh, so little understanding of geology its hard to know where to start. Forest Hill Formation is the name of the stratagraphic layers in which the fossils are preserved. Its not a "hill formation", its THE FOREST HILL FORMATION, and the dating itself has nothing to do with the name. They were deposited in muds of a flood plain that had a high mineral content. The immersion allowed the woods to petrify while the muds lithified to become the formation in which the fossils are now eroding from. Did you bother to even try the link I gave you which is to the paper giving the ~35myo date. you did not look far if you ignored that completely.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Just the two volcanoes in question, "Burning Mountain" and "Midnight", who found them, and how did they find them in 1860 or 1819 or whenever?
    You mean Jason Volcano and Midnight Volcano, using your pet name "burning mountain" is not right, use the full correct names please which are the Jackson dome and midnight dome respectively. The Jackson Volcano was discovered in 1819 (no connection to your "impact"). The composition of the domes and remaining rock in the throat of the volcanoes creates a gravitational increase over them compared to the surrounding rock, allowing for discovery by anyone with tools that would be looking for that type anomaly (often connected with gas and oil reserves.
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  7. #107  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Here you go, A RE-EVALUATION OF THE EXTRATERRESTRIAL ORIGIN OF THE CAROLINA BAYS A Re-evaluation of the Extraterrestrial Origin of The Carolina Bays, you can just go down to "Reasearch Implications of a Cometary Model", and read the "Conclusions" also. And yes, I see the dates, but they are just dating the soil deposits and not the time the impacts occurred. Pay attention to the direction, going to the northwest, same as my impact theory. Makes sense coming from low on the horizon, out of the Southern Hemisphere, as was stated by Herschel. I realise there are arguements for and against, but it is much more likely from extraterrestrial origin, and highly likely it happened in 1811. The rich soil contained in and around the depressions is easily eroded, and there's a high probability, that being on the coast with rich soil, that this land would have been cultivated and have signs of development in any of the long time frames considered.
    So you have access to the original reports in the 1940s which have a magnitude difference in time frame, and can show us that report?
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    AND, the method of dating has nothing to do with the actual date of occurrance! You try to say this is logical, to date soil and fossil samples that are around the object to be dated and expect to get the actual date that the instance happened? I say BULL!

    Whatever,You will find, the Carolina Bays, The Jackson Dome and Midnight Dome Volcanoes, and the petrified forest all were results of an impact from pieces of comet C/1811F1. Beyond that, the story is told by the satellite view, the stones found at the center, and the many reports describing the events. I guess it does take being a good investigator. A lot of reading between the lines. It would be much easier if so much evidence had not been tampered with.

    The original reports were on line at one time, I had the site in my favorites, under interests, but now that link just gives the "404 page not found", so whatever, I guess convenient for an opponent! Guess what, that's by no means, the only one, it's happened to several references. I had a few good articles on the lights and explosions. I still can't find the one where the guy in Kentucky says it was so bright he could see a pin on the floor, but it has got to be somewhere. Several accounts have also been edited, some just recently. You won't find any stories of any lights going across the skies in anything with C.E.R.I. involved. Why not? Why take out critical information? Again, you can investigate this or just be a flaming critic, either way, the truth will come out eventually, and then it will tell the tell of who is who and give the reason for the forceable manipulation of evidence. Think about it, I'm not stopping anybody from analyzing these rocks. I assure you I have sent four samples off four times and lost sixteen samples! Coincidence?, Bad luck? Incompetence?, maybe or maybe not. But I'm not the liar! And, you are more than welcome to bring a spectrometer, microscope, or even melt a sample to check for iridium. I'm not stopping anybody, and I've contacted at least a couple hundred, including individual geologists, meteoritical services, universities, JPL, The Meteorite Men, you name it... so what's the deal?
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 13th, 2011 at 02:27 AM.
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    And I call bs on the statement that an impact did it. No other recorded impact has done that, and there is plenty of evidence that the forest, volcanoes and Carolina Bays are NOT related. It ius very clear that you have no understanding of how the volcanoes and the forest were dated.
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    PLEASE, you call that an arguement? Oh, no it isn't, oh, yes it is! Get real! I gave you a link and solid evidence of a re-evaluation with scientific work and many people who feel the bays could have easily been an impact, and you still have NO answers to ANY of my questions. YES, I totally understand how they were dated, and it's wrong! That is NOT how to date the occurrance, that's how to date the soil around the occurrance! Give me a link to who and how these anomalies were dated, and proof that it had to be correct! You can't, and you know why? Because "they"are NOT correct and most of "they" know it! And, if you don't "know it", you're being duped!

    AND, guess what, there has never been a recorded incident of a cometary impact, and in an extremely cold winter! The smaller meteors came in at a very low trajectory and exploded when they impacted on ice. The larger ones were covered in ice and impacted frozen lakes. Many plausable scenerios to consider! A vaporized, sulfur cloud, full of molten rock and minerals and impacting a frozen forest could have easily produced petrified wood. That forest did not sit there in tact for 36 MILLION years!, and the volcanoes were not buried way back in The Cretacious! I know people that have lived in and around Jackson, and they will tell you how soft the soil is, and how everything just sinks in the ground. Just another sign of probability. But, if you can come up with any strong evidence to prove your position, I'll just back up to the original evidence and see what you can do with that. Give ME some links!
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 13th, 2011 at 04:08 PM.
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    NO it could not have produced a petrified forest, as petrification of the replacement of organic cellular material with minerals on a one to one scale. This is not a process that happens in less then about 1 million years. What happened at Vesuvius was not peterification it was creation of casts around living material.

    Yes the forest is 35 million years old, as the trees are weathering out of a 35 million year old flood plain with associated fossil marine life that is only found in the Late Eocene/Early Oligocene.

    The volcanoes last eruptions are geochemically dated to have occurred around 35 million years ago, there is NO ambiguity as to when they erupted.

    The constant references to "they" seems to indicate you think there is a massive conspiracy to cover up something, what would be gained by this?
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    You don't get it? "They" all get government grants. And "they", which you still haven't come up with any names or answers, don't want to lose their money or let anyone find out how wrong they are. It would look quite embarrassing for them. I, on the other hand couldn't care less, my theory is as strong, if not stonger than theirs. You keep on saying the volcanoes didn't erupt, and I told you, I never said they did. All I stated is, that the natives had names for them, the island that one sat on was named after Andrew Jackson, that they were buried two hundred years ago, and there are no names and no descriptions of how they were discovered in 1819 or 1860, with no technology to do so. They had to have already known that these volcanoes were there. Why do you keep avoiding the questions?

    Oh yea, soon an intelligent scientist will discover that the petrification process can occur instantaneously, and doesn't take a "million" years!
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    No they did not have to have known they were there. And wouldnt have as the soil structure (NOT JUST DIRT) shows that they were not exposed anytime after the last iceage at least. And why would the native have names for them anyway?????

    You really dont understand science do you? It is not hand never has been a big fraternity that protects each others backs, its a big fight and whoever shows their back gets stabbed in it. Many many of the geophysicists working do not get any sorts of government grants anyways, there would be no grant to loose.
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    You can't be THAT gullible! And, did you even read any of the links? There is much evidence that the volcanoes had names and that one sat on "Jackson Island'. Even in "The History of Jackson Ms." this has been stated! You have done no investigation. first you must become curious! And guess what, when the U.S.G.S. and C.E.R.I. are involved they pretty much control the outcome! Do you realise what all is involved with this situation? Really, from your arguements, it does appear as if you are being sincere and quite innocent. Just read C.E.R.I.s interpatations and find a single story of bright lights across the skies. I know the people who are doing this. There is a lot at stake for their position. And no, I do not make these accusations lightly. I have had several conversations with the ones who hold top positions at both, and they are more than worried. They just recently editted out several statements at several different sites, including a couple in which, I don't believe they had anything to do with. Just about the only newspaper article left online now is one that was saved by "The London Press" and it's from Gettysburg Pennsylvania, and even that has been distorted by reversing the dates, but it's quite obvious. Just read the article at my site!

    Just tell me why noone will analyze the rocks.
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    I note you have not addressed my points on petrification or on the fact that all your assertions are disproved by actually following the scientific method and looking at the geology, soil structure and geochemistry of the area.
    Instead you go for your assertion that hte names are related to extinct volcanoes that have not seen the surface of the earth in 65 million years.
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    Jees, I note you haven't answered a single question or looked at any evidence! And, so how did the volcanoes cause the petrified forest if the volcanoes were buried 65 million years ago and the forest is 35 or 36 million years old? The "scientific method" you are referring to is "bunk". You cannot tell when a crater appeared by dating the soil structure within. You cannot date a buried volcano by dating the soil structure 2900 feet above it. You cannot date a petrified forest by dating the soil stucture deposited around it. When there is only hear-say evidence, all their can be are assertions. I just go by the original accounts and the tangible, seeable evidence that is obvious.

    Anyway, here's another link, as I keep trying, Newspaper Accounts of the New Madrid Earthquake at Newspaper Accounts of the New Madrid Earthquake , and see what this says about the comet and the quake. Go to "Saturday December 21st, 1811", where someone describes the comet as going off to the west and they believe it had "touched" the mountains of California!
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 13th, 2011 at 07:43 PM.
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    Ah, yes, the comet that was at that time 2.4 AU away (223 million miles) "touched the mountains of California".

    Talk about gullible!

    You seem to clutch the scientific ignorance of the lay public in the early 19th century to your beliefs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Jees, I note you haven't answered a single question or looked at any evidence! And, so how did the volcanoes cause the petrified forest if the volcanoes were buried 65 million years ago and the forest is 35 or 36 million years old? The "scientific method" you are referring to is "bunk". You cannot tell when a crater appeared by dating the soil structure within. You cannot date a buried volcano by dating the soil structure 2900 feet above it. You cannot date a petrified forest by dating the soil stucture deposited around it. When there is only hear-say evidence, all their can be are assertions. I just go by the original accounts and the tangible, seeable evidence that is obvious.

    Anyway, here's another link, as I keep trying, Newspaper Accounts of the New Madrid Earthquake at Newspaper Accounts of the New Madrid Earthquake , and see what this says about the comet and the quake. Go to "Saturday December 21st, 1811", where someone describes the comet as going off to the west and they believe it had "touched" the mountains of California!
    The volcanoes did NOT result in the petrification of the Mississippi petrified forest, and at no point have i said that either Jackson dome or Midnight dome did. The forest was the result of logjams being buried in muds high in free minerals. My comments on Soil structure are highly relevant. Where do you thing the soil horizons come from? Oh and the petrified forest is not enclosed in soil it is enclosed in rock, and it was the rock that was dated. you can date the last time the volcanic edifice was visible by the soil horizon structure. Accounts from people with little to no understanding of what they were seeing, recorded by people with little to no understanding of what they were being told, and interpreted by a person that has no understanding of the vast amounts of evidence that disprove his/her pet hypothesis.
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    What "vast" amounts of evidence? I'm the one with the vast amounts of evidence! The fact that someone, who you have no name has said so because of some technique that is obviously wrong! It has been such a lack of understanding and investigation, by individuals just like the ones I argue with on this thread that are the reason for such a warped sense of history. You can discount all the original accounts, newspaper articles, say all you want about the dates of the volcanoes, forest, and the craters, but that won't change the truth. That will never explain the incredible amount of evidence encased in stone and at the center of all the stratus lines from the shockwave covering the whole river valley!

    Nobody said 2.4 AU away in December, and if they did, obviously they were wrong!

    Yet another link at http://hsv.com/genlintr/newmadrd/ ,at hsv.com, then go down to newspaper references and tap The Messenger [jpeg] and go to the third column about a quarter down, where he describes the skies, the dreary darkness in daytime, the cloudy haze, and the comet and how the weather went from extreme heat to extreme cold.

    You STILL have given NOTHING to prove me wrong, and still have not investigated the reasons for my evidence, and still have not answered not one question with fact, only what you think. I have tons more evidence to prove I am right, and your arguement is quickly failing. Stop reaching and accept that it was a piece of the comet that caused the quake!
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 13th, 2011 at 09:17 PM.
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  20. #120  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    What "vast" amounts of evidence? I'm the one with the vast amounts of evidence! The fact that someone, who you have no name has said so because of some technique that is obviously wrong! It has been such a lack of understanding and investigation, by individuals just like the ones I argue with on this thread that are the reason for such a warped sense of history. You can discount all the original accounts, newspaper articles, say all you want about the dates of the volcanoes, forest, and the craters, but that won't change the truth. That will never explain the incredible amount of evidence encased in stone and at the center of all the stratus lines from the shockwave covering the whole river valley!
    The 250 plus years of general geology understanding, soil horizon development study, etc. You don't even know what technique was used and I have already linked you to the who of the petrified forest. you assertion of a connection between unrelated geologic features does not trump published papers in peer reviewed literature. It has been shown numerous times in court cases that eye witness accounts are the least reliable form of evidence. So why should we take the "eyewitness" accounts from 1811 when most of the us population had nothing more then a rudimentary home education, as public education had not been introduced in any scale yet. You are the opnly one suggesting a link between the forest and the volcanoes.
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    Geology understanding does not constitute cometary impact understanding, in which obviously, there is very little, if any!I'm pretty sure that I understand exactly what "techniques" were used and they don't work! No, no link, don't see it, no names, don't see 'em. no answers, you haven't given 'em.

    Funny how that rudimentary home education should only work in your favor. Why distort the evidence? Why take out critical pieces of what people said? This is what C.E.R.I. and many others have attempted. Just a few years ago there was a mountain of evidence on-line, many newspaper articles, many original accounts, many books available through universities libraries. Now very few exists and many of those have been edited!

    How is the topography of the river valley an unrelated geological formation when we're talkiing about an impact that occurred there? Do you believe an ice sheet pulled the land upward? Do you believe people can see lights or hear explosions from several states over? Do you believe that an object fifty percent larger than the sun could be far away? Do you believe thousands of oval and round depressions, all going in the same direction, could have been formed from wind or water eddies? Do you believe that all these rocks, found at the center of all these stratus lines, that are obviously from a shockwave, is just a coincidence? Do you really believe that these people didn't know what they were seeing, because even your, supposedly educated astronomers stated the comet as one and a half times larger than the sun, how can you misinterpet that? If you have answered "yes" to any of these quetions then you should probably have an I.Q. test done!
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  22. #122  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Geology understanding does not constitute cometary impact understanding, in which obviously, there is very little, if any!
    And it's pretty clear you have none.
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    You've never answered my question. What is C.E.R.I ?
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    C.E.R.I. stands for Center for Earthquake Research Information.

    MeteorWayne, Was that a serious question, after stating that I have no understanding of geology or cometary impacts? If you really didn't know , then it should be obvious what I'm putting up with.

    And, Paleoichneum, "geolologists" thought The Barringer Crater was volcanic for many years!
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    No, it was a serious statement. It was not a question.
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    [QUOTE=Kalopin;296831] What "vast" amounts of evidence? I'm the one with the vast amounts of evidence! The fact that someone, who you have no name has said so because of some technique that is obviously wrong! It has been such a lack of understanding and investigation, by individuals just like the ones I argue with on this thread that are the reason for such a warped sense of history. You can discount all the original accounts, newspaper articles, say all you want about the dates of the volcanoes, forest, and the craters, but that won't change the truth. That will never explain the incredible amount of evidence encased in stone and at the center of all the stratus lines from the shockwave covering the whole river valley![QUOTE]

    What evidence? Nothing but anecdotes.

    Nobody said 2.4 AU away in December, and if they did, obviously they were wrong!
    Oh yes, JPL knows nothing about cometary orbits.

    Yet another link at The Virtual Times: The New Madrid Earthquake ,at hsv.com, then go down to newspaper references and tap The Messenger [jpeg] and go to the third column about a quarter down, where he describes the skies, the dreary darkness in daytime, the cloudy haze, and the comet and how the weather went from extreme heat to extreme cold.
    Yeah, shocking that it's damp and dreary for a few days in December in Missiouri. Alert the media!!!! And I missed any reference to extreme cold or extreme heat. Just dank and damp for a few days.

    You STILL have given NOTHING to prove me wrong, and still have not investigated the reasons for my evidence, and still have not answered not one question with fact, only what you think. I have tons more evidence to prove I am right, and your arguement is quickly failing. Stop reaching and accept that it was a piece of the comet that caused the quake!
    The problem is, you have given NO evidence to prove you are right. Just a whole bunch af anecdotes, and a boatload of "I say I must be right". That ain't science, which is why you have been dismissed by every scientist you've contacted, including here.
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  27. #127  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    C.E.R.I. stands for Center for Earthquake Research Information.
    Thank you. See, now was it so hard to actually answer a question with a fact?
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    Now, why don't YOU try to answer a question with a fact!
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  29. #129  
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    So your back to saying its a massive conspiracy to cover things up. Any time you can not prove one of your assertions you revert to "Big bad men are changing things". Sorry but this doesnt work.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    No, I have asked you to answer questions that should be simple, yet you have no answers. Why, because the answers prove my hypothesis!
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 14th, 2011 at 09:06 PM.
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    What clear question would you ask?
    One question without 5 extra sentences of word salad.
    That's the problem, you don't actually ask a question, you make a walloftext, with nothing specific as a question.
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    Man, Wayne you need to re-read until you realise!

    Logical answer! Why did I find these strange rocks at the center of all the lines, that are obviously stratus lines from a shockwave, and are so clearly visble on satellite view?

    AND, about ten more questions never answered, because you can't give a reasonable answer, just some stupid, and I must say with quite the attitude, comeback that doesn't actually answer anything!
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    They are strange in your view. As Paleoichneum said, they are well understood by real scientists. You appear to understand as much about geology as you do about cometary impacts.

    I'm still waiting for one clear, all by itself question, without a bunch of unrealated crap surrounding it.

    I suspect you won't do that, since it would expose you.
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    EXACTLY, that's the stupid answer I expected. Show me simalar examples! NO, the rocks were not made by a river or an ice sheet or a volcano, and it's obvious by just the pictures. When an encased body part is staring you straight in the face, you still come up with your ignorance! If you can't understand a clear question, then why make any comment at all? You're just making yourself look like a true idiot!
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    Nothing is obvious from the pictures. My answer (to a question you did not phrase as a question, so it was a statement)

    If anyone looks like an idiot, it is you.

    I'm still waiting for one clear, all by itself question, without a bunch of unrealated crap surrounding it.

    I suspect you won't do that, since it would expose you.
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  36. #136  
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    I still have not found the "impact" site with google maps either, and nothing looking like "stratus lines".
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    paleoichneum, it's obvious to me, oh well.

    Meteor Wayne, expose me for what? Do you believe I'm hiding something?
    Last edited by Kalopin; December 15th, 2011 at 12:03 AM.
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    Untitled 01.jpgyet you have not been able guide anyone else to the spot on topo maps. Where is the crater, the topography does not have any impact features.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  39. #139  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    paleoichneum, it's obvious to me, oh well.

    Meteor Wayne, expose me for what? Do you believe I'm hiding something?
    Yes I do.

    I'm still waiting for one clear, all by itself question, without a bunch of unrealated crap surrounding it.
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    Not true, I gave coordinates, I gave the names of the roads, and even gave the name of a church to go to, that's on Google Earth. It's not for lack of my trying. Sorry, I know that sounds rude. Here you go.

    At the top of the state of Mississippi about in the middle almost at the Tennessee State Line. Off of Hwy. , up North Rd. to Rd. and go to Rd.. You should see Church right off of Rd.. A little further down Rd., take a right on Rd. there's a small field, to the left, this is the northwest part of the basin of the crater. Everything encircles this general area. Once you have zoomed in and taken a look around, pan out slowly until you see the entire river valley, even to The Gulf Coast, then slowly zoom back in. Eventually you should notice the lines that I refer to. It appears as a huge thumbprint, covering the whole valley. This include every river, every lake, every topographical feature of the valley. Look at the circular lines going up Arkansa, right on the other side of The Mississippi River, and how they encircle the impact site. look at how the impact site is aimed directly at the top western corner of Tennessee, right at Reelfoot Lake. Look how every river to the north encircles the crater. Look at The Hatchie River, how it has been pushed up directly in an arrow from the crater. The land to the south has east to west lines underneath the impact, and is where the land was pulled upward and apart by the force of this impact. Several huge splits were dammed up on the ends and were made into lakes, like Sardis, Arkabutla, and Enid. These were previously huge "splits" of land. This created Reelfoot Lake and is also the reason that The Tennessee River flows back northward. It caused The Wolf River to barely have any flow at all and will sometimes flow in either direction. You will find this to be the ONLY logical explanation for all this topography.

    Once you see this, then will you give me your help?
    Last edited by Kalopin; March 6th, 2012 at 08:19 PM.
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    I'm still waiting for one clear, all by itself question, without a bunch of unrealated crap surrounding it.
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    One more day until the bicentinnial anniversary of "A Great Cometary Cataclysm"! I guess it is here, for my attempt to let the world know.

    The crater is located in , as where so many were at 2 a.m. on December 16th, 1811. Off of Road, as the best and most expensive wine ever produced was in 1811-12. Off of Road, as this means God, and this was a God year. 1811 stands for the eleventh day of the eighth month of the first year. August Eleventh, One, Anno Domine was Jesus's Birthday! [just coincidence]
    Last edited by Kalopin; March 6th, 2012 at 08:20 PM.
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  43. #143  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    One more day until the bicentinnial anniversary of "A Great Cometary Cataclysm"! I guess it is here, for my attempt to let the world know.

    The crater is located in Slayden, as where so many were slain at 2 a.m. on December 16th, 1811. Off of Concord Road, as the best and most expensive wine ever produced was in 1811-12. Off of DIO Road, as this means God, and this was a God year. 1811 stands for the eleventh day of the eighth month of the first year. August Eleventh, One, Anno Domine was Jesus's Birthday! [just coincidence]
    No - mind numbingly banal numerology.
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    Why don't people like you, with your ignorant B.S. comments go and get a life! If you don't have an arguement, or anything productive to include, just stay the F out of it! Obviously, your comment shows that you know nothing of the subject! I keep thinking that I'm gonna' turn this piece of $#(+ on and get an intelligent thought from at least someone on a "SCIENCE" forum! Are there any actual scientists, or is John Galt and his itty, bitty, brainless little, worthless comments an average, mean, sampling?
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  45. #145  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    1811 stands for the eleventh day of the eighth month of the first year
    Other "obvious" interpretations could be Jan 8 '11, 1 Aug '11, 1 Jan '18, etc.

    August Eleventh, One, Anno Domine was Jesus's Birthday
    I don't think so.

    If you are just going to make arbitrary stuff up, there is no point getting annoyed when you are called on it.
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    No, "I" did NOT make that up! This is believed by MANY Christian scholars! Why don't YOU look it up, if it so concerns you!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    No, "I" did NOT make that up! This is believed by MANY Christian scholars! Why don't YOU look it up, if it so concerns you!
    You'll be telling me there were Three Wise Men next.

    I couldn't find anything like that (except in some weird non-biblical source).

    Estimation via the Nativity accounts
    "Most scholars generally assume a date of birth between 6 and 4 BC"

    Working backwards from the ministry
    "By working backwards from the start of his ministry, some scholars estimate the year 28 AD to be roughly the 32nd birthday of Jesus and his year of birth to be around 6-4 BC"

    If we don't even know the year, I'm not sure how anyone can state the date with any accuracy.
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    It's true there are many interpretations, and this is just one, but it fit, so I used it. It is however, not the arguement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    It's true there are many interpretations, here's one, From The Heart Of Leo .
    From that random web site: "August 11th is the Divine Birth of our Lord God Jesus Christ in 6 BC" So you can't even support your own assertions.

    It's true, there are several assumptions, and this is just one, but it fit, so I used it.
    That'll be numerology then.

    It is however, not the arguement.
    Its just about as good as the rest of your evidence, as far as I can tell.
    Last edited by Strange; December 15th, 2011 at 04:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Why don't people like you, with your ignorant B.S. comments go and get a life! If you don't have an arguement, or anything productive to include, just stay the F out of it! Obviously, your comment shows that you know nothing of the subject! I keep thinking that I'm gonna' turn this piece of $#(+ on and get an intelligent thought from at least someone on a "SCIENCE" forum! Are there any actual scientists, or is John Galt and his itty, bitty, brainless little, worthless comments an average, mean, sampling?

    You're way over the line. See you next week.
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    It;s true, there are many Christian Scholars that believe August Eleven, Year One to be the actual birthdate of Jesus. I believe this is the link in which Kalopin refers to: From The Heart Of Leo: The Great Comet of 1811 . Although there are many other assumed dates.
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  52. #152  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    It;s true, there are many Christian Scholars that believe August Eleven, Year One to be the actual birthdate of Jesus. I believe this is the link in which Kalopin refers to: From The Heart Of Leo: The Great Comet of 1811 .
    Oh, I thought you said "scholar", not some random blogger writing about numerology.

    Although there are many other assumed dates.
    And some calculated ones. You know, by actual scholars.
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  53. #153  
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    Might want to check out a couple of The Kreutz Family of comets. Comet Lovejoy reached Perihelion today and has a smaller "companion" comet. SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids
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    What does that have to do with this topic?
    The 1811 comet was not a Kreutz comet.

    There's a thread in the astronomy forum about Lovejoy.
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  55. #155  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalopin View Post
    Why don't people like you, with your ignorant B.S. comments go and get a life! If you don't have an arguement, or anything productive to include, just stay the F out of it! Obviously, your comment shows that you know nothing of the subject! I keep thinking that I'm gonna' turn this piece of $#(+ on and get an intelligent thought from at least someone on a "SCIENCE" forum! Are there any actual scientists, or is John Galt and his itty, bitty, brainless little, worthless comments an average, mean, sampling?
    Kalopin, I understand you have been banned for a week and so will take a while to reply to this, if you choose to do so.

    The arguments against your hypothesis have been well presented by Meteor Wayne and others. It is disappointing that while you claim to support the scientific method you are all to ready to ignore it when the result would disagree with your hyptohesis. Your last post, to which my comments were directed, identified 'coincidences' related to dates. You were, if you were serious, assigning significance to these dates. That is numerolgy, by definition. When I accurately name something then that is clearly not B.S.

    Do you deny this was numerology, or were you just being facetious? If the latter, that was a very bad idea - don't muddy your already weak argument with spurious psedoscience. If you were serious, then my attack was wholly justified. Numerology is a discredited concept and your cherry picking examples are most certainly min numbing and banal. If you wish to be taken seriously on a science forum then I recommend two things:
    a) Avoid completely anything as ridiculous as numerology.
    b) Respond objectively to the clearly identified objections to your thesis. That means that you address the objections, not that you just keep repeating your claims without dealing with the contrary evidence.

    Your outburst clearly reflects your intense commitment to your idea, but do not let passion override logic, as you seem to be doing.
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    Or, maybe he was just pointing out the names of the roads as coincidence?
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    No, he clearly implied there was some hidden valuable numerical connection that helped support his case.
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    I've given a little study, and find a definite possibility from the evidence that's been provided. The rocks are quite unusual, the satellite view does show definitive circular lines around the area in question, and many accounts do speak of the sky turning red and lights before the initial earthquake, and smoke, the smell of sulfur, and waves of hot and cold air directly after. This is quite interesting and I feel like this should be given some more study.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    I've given a little study, and find a definite possibility from the evidence that's been provided. The rocks are quite unusual, the satellite view does show definitive circular lines around the area in question, and many accounts do speak of the sky turning red and lights before the initial earthquake, and smoke, the smell of sulfur, and waves of hot and cold air directly after. This is quite interesting and I feel like this should be given some more study.
    Then you don't understand what the evidence means. The earthwuake took place at the New Madrid fault, which can still be found from current seismic activity. There is NO evidence for an impact, only anecdotes. The rocks are not unusual at all, and they sure as hell ain't meteorites.

    If you have not studied impacts for a decade or more as I have, you don't really understand enough to speculate. A "little study" means you don't understand the processes involved; you couldn't.
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    To clear this up; A little study into this theory of a cometary impact as being the cause of The New Madrid Earthquakes.

    Well,I do understand that there's never been a study of a cometary impact. I understand that comets are made mainly of ice, and it would be quite easy to believe that a meteor made mostly of ice could have caused this earthquake. The fact that the fault line is north of the suggested impact site is irrelevant. These could easily have been pre-existing geologic features, and this impact had been the device mechanism. If you consider many balls of ice and sand with smaller rocks or maybe no rocks, then all this is plausable.
    Last edited by Gilgamesh; December 18th, 2011 at 01:56 PM.
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  61. #161  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    To clear this up; A little study into this theory of a cometary impact as being the cause of The New Madrid Earthquakes.

    Well,I do understand that there's never been a study of a cometary impact. I understand that comets are made mainly of ice, and it would be quite easy to believe that a meteor made mostly of ice could have caused this earthquake.
    No not at all. Anyone who has really studied impacts would realize there is NO evidence to support it.

    The fact that the fault line is north of the suggested impact site is irrelevant. These could easily have been pre-existing geologic features, and this impact had been the device mechanism. If you consider many balls of ice and sand with smaller rocks or maybe no rocks, then all this is plausable.
    No it's not. Besides, there is no evidence for the alleged impact, so it's a moot point.
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  62. #162  
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    Gilgamesh, the problem is that the site's geology, topography, and soil horizon structuring all disprove the idea that an impact happened.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. It appears as though all the geologic topography does indeed encircle the proposed impact site. It looks as though quite a bit of land was pushed northward by something. Have you all looked into the current theories involving this topography? As it is believed that an ice sheet was the cause. It has the name 'The Upland Drift". I've studied several different beliefs on the reason that The Tennessee River flows northward, and all are lacking in a strong enough device. This would certainly be an explanation to investigate. Also, if you consider melting balls of ice and sand as meteors, it could give viable explanation to The Carolina Bays topography, and the lacking of evidence as well. Actually, the rocks do have the appearance of being produced by extreme heat and pressure, not common to the area in question. I must give this further investigation.
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    The rocks that have been shown have the appearance of classic concretions formed from iron mineralization in a sand or similar substrate. They do not have the appearance of impact material. The thing is The soil horizons and overall structure show no impact disruption which would be evident if there was an impact 200 years ago. The amount of disruption that impacts cause on soil systems does not get erased in that short of a time.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    Have you been to his website? Quite a few unusual rocks in those photos, as well. It would also be understandable that, considering the soil structure make-up, being only gravel, sand, and dirt, and the possibility of a lake or marsh impact, that the immediate crater could have been mostly filled in, rather quickly. You also have to consider the amount of development, which would be extensive in this area. Don't forget we are talking about a meteor consistimg mainly of ice, and if it were to come in at a low trajectory, as believd, this would also explain the circumstances. It is a viable theory. Obviously, you seem steadfast in your interpretation, but I see a definate possibility.
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    There is WAY more to soil then just it being dirt. The specific soil horizons that from in the soil are diagnostic for the type of environments in which they form and give a lot of information about past and present conditions. They do not show an impact. The statement "being only gravel, sand, and dirt" shows that Kalopin does not have any understanding of overall soil mechanics or soil science.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    There is WAY more to soil then just it being dirt. The specific soil horizons that from in the soil are diagnostic for the type of environments in which they form and give a lot of information about past and present conditions. They do not show an impact. The statement "being only gravel, sand, and dirt" shows that Kalopin does not have any understanding of overall soil mechanics or soil science.
    Unintelligable Jargon!
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  68. #168  
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    Not jargon, correct terminology.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  69. #169  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    There is WAY more to soil then just it being dirt. The specific soil horizons that from in the soil are diagnostic for the type of environments in which they form and give a lot of information about past and present conditions. They do not show an impact. The statement "being only gravel, sand, and dirt" shows that Kalopin does not have any understanding of overall soil mechanics or soil science.
    Unintelligable Jargon!
    Your inability to understand some very simple observations and terminology, both of which would be familiar to a child studying geography in their second year of secondary school, pretty well disqualifies you from having a valuable opinion on this matter.
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    "that FROM in the soil are DIAGNOSTIC for the types of environments in which they form"! WHAT?

    If you would have done any diagnostics, you would realize that the soil is made up of gravel, sand, and dirt. So, John, as your insults are quite rudimentary, Paleoichneum's statement makes little or no sense. After reading this thread, it is obvious neither of you are qualified to criticize.
    Last edited by Gilgamesh; December 19th, 2011 at 10:23 PM.
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    Paleochenem made a typo (the CAPITALIZED "FROM" should be form. Just as you made a typo in spelling "critisize".

    And soil is MUCH more than just gravel, sand and dirt. Such a profound ignorance of what the term soil means demonstrates your lack of understanding of the entire subject. Such ignorance is correctable if you make the effort. We all learn more every day if we want to.
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  72. #172  
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    Meteorwayne is correct, the "from" should have been "form". Soil is much much more complex then "being only gravel, sand, and dirt". The chemical and weathering interactions, the biological interactions and the gravity and topography interactions on the "dirt" all leave very distinct leaching patterns and layers called horizons. The impact of anything large would leave a disturbance that would show in these horizons for centuries. Soil studies of the region do not show any such markers.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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  73. #173  
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    Soil- A natural body consisting of layers [soil horizons] of mineral constituents of variable thickness, which differ from the parent materials in their morphilogical, physical, chemical, and mineralogical characteristics. Or, the depth of regolith that influence and have been influenced by plant roots.

    In other words, I am exactly correct to say the soil make-up of The Mississippi River Valley is mostly gravel, sand and dirt. Simply put.
    If you would prefer a chemical analysis of trace elements of The Delta, I can refer you to a U.S.G.S. study, or maybe just visit this page, so you may better understand: Soils - Encyclopedia of Arkansas . Really, do we need to waste time and effort with your education?

    You can also upload this PDF: http://soildatamart.nrcs.usda.gov/ma...0/marshall.pdf
    Last edited by Gilgamesh; December 19th, 2011 at 11:11 PM.
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  74. #174  
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    From your link:

    "Arkansas soils are natural, dynamic bodies of broken-down and weathered mineral and organic matter, in some places altered by human activity, capable of growing plants. Soils are unique and exist as a creation of five soil-forming factors: parent material, climate, topography, organisms, and time. Soil parent material is the geological source of the mineral component, defined as particles less than two millimeters in diameter. Arkansas soils developed from residium, loess, alluvium, and old marine sediment parent materials. "

    Do you know what any of these words mean?
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  75. #175  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    Soil- A natural body consisting of layers [soil horizons] of mineral constituents of variable thickness, which differ from the parent materials in their morphilogical, physical, chemical, and mineralogical characteristics. Or, the depth of regolith that influence and have been influenced by plant roots.

    In other words, I am exactly correct to say the soil make-up of The Mississippi River Valley is mostly gravel, sand and dirt. Simply put.
    If you would prefer a chemical analysis of trace elements of The Delta, I can refer you to a U.S.G.S. study, or maybe just visit this page, so you may better understand: Soils - Encyclopedia of Arkansas . Really, do we need to waste time and effort with your education?

    You can also upload this PDF: http://soildatamart.nrcs.usda.gov/ma...0/marshall.pdf
    No not dirt sand and gravel simply put, as taking to that level of simplification is oversimplification. The dynamics of the horizons, if they were distrurbed in teh manner suggested, would show that disturbance. They dont.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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  76. #176  
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    Do either of you understand what the substrate of the river valley consists of?
    It seems, even after you have looked this up, you still have missed the simplicity of the statement. What you have suggested, that the soil does not show an impact is, so far, left to interpretation. The facts being, that this has not been explored substantially. Maybe you cannot conceive of such a proposition. What type of disturbance would show on the surface of the ocean after two hundred years?
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  77. #177  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeteorWayne View Post
    From your link:

    "Arkansas soils are natural, dynamic bodies of broken-down and weathered mineral and organic matter, in some places altered by human activity, capable of growing plants. Soils are unique and exist as a creation of five soil-forming factors: parent material, climate, topography, organisms, and time. Soil parent material is the geological source of the mineral component, defined as particles less than two millimeters in diameter. Arkansas soils developed from residium, loess, alluvium, and old marine sediment parent materials. "

    Do you know what any of these words mean?
    Gravel, sand, and dirt.

    Oh, let's not forget, water. As the whole valley has an oceanlike lake of running water, known as The Artesian Wells", named after a former French Province. This water travels through the porous rocks, throughout the entire valley, and would effect the form of the impact crater considerably.
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  78. #178  
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    Massive disruption of soil horizons would show in the valley and across a much wider region. there would a a distinct horizon with impact debris included in it across whatever area was in front of where the impacts trajectory was.

    I know what the composition of the valley is, and having taken classes on soil science in college from a degreed soil scientist, I understand how long it would take for the disruption to disappear, centuries. I know how the mechanics of the soils movement work and that those mechanics tell us the "slump in and hide the crater" scenario being proposed is not actually possible.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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  79. #179  
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    In fact, there are massive disruptions in the soil horizons throughout more than four states. This is "the huge thumbprint" being described.
    This is the best explanation for the appearance of this topography.

    This is really not just a matter of opinion. The force of the impact is enormous and it spreads out from the impact site to cover the whole river valley. Go back to your satellite and give further study. All the topography encircles the proposed crater region. If this truly was a meteor, consisting mainly of ice, from a comet, hitting a lake, coming in from the south-southeast at a low trajectory, then this becomes a plausible scenerio. I see your position, but it seems you should understand this point of view.

    There is something to this, especially considering that the rocks found in this area have had so much heat and pressure.
    Last edited by Gilgamesh; December 20th, 2011 at 03:51 PM.
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  80. #180  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    In fact, there are massive disruptions in the soil horizons throughout more than four states. This is "the huge thumbprint" being described. .
    Please provide evidence for this.

    A satellite view (even though it shows nothing) is not eveidence for "massive disruptions in soild horizons. That's what we need to see to take you seriously.
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  81. #181  
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    Gilgamesh, please link us to the specific soil surveys that show the massive soil disruptions you are referencing.

    And not the external morphology of the rocks are not indicative of extreme heat and pressure.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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  82. #182  
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    Obviously, this is what needs to be explored, analyzed, and tested. But just to state that it is, or is not there is not proof. It does appear as if there is enough reason to have this investigated, and soon it will.
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  83. #183  
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    So in other words, you have no evidence at all.
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  84. #184  
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    Wait a minute Gilgamesh, you just got done claiming in your prior post that you HAD the proof of massive disturbances in the soil horizons, now you are saying that you don't. Which is it?
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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  85. #185  
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    Saying "there is"[implies belief] and saying "had the proof"[sure beyond a doubt] are not the same. You have misinterpreted quite a bit during this discussion. I wonder if you have the nerve for a deeper investigation, as it sounds like you are just being biased in your approach. If you cannot see the huge thumbprint-like structure on satellite view, you may want to, first try getting some glasses, then, if that doesn't help, find someone that's not blind, as you must be, to describe the features for you. Do you believe I've been given any more evidence than you? I just choose to view this in a more scientific manner. This is where you fully explore possibilities. It seems to me, rather strange for you all to so easily dismiss without proper investigation.
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  86. #186  
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    Where are the soil survey results that support your view that you stated as fact.

    Perhaps, if you see a thumbprint in the satellite images, you should clean the thumbprint off of your glasses or monitor. There's nothing there!

    No I don't believe you have more evidence than we do, if fact, you seem to have no evidence at all.

    You are not viewing it in a more scientific manner, in fact you have provided no science at all, just anecdotes...
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  87. #187  
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    Reports haven't yet been assessed. No need to address your next ridiculous statement. The evidence is readily available to someone willing to do the study. Talking round in circles with you accomplishes nothing. This will have to be looked at as soon as there is a chance [after the holidays]. Really, no other comment for you to make, as I see your position, but you should give more respect to mine.
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  88. #188  
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    So in other words, again, you can provide no evidence to back up your claims. This is getting repatative. Since you came here, you've claimed one wild thing after another, and when asked to support it, you cannot.

    That position I can not respect. That's why this discussion is in it's well deserved place, pseudoscience.
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  89. #189  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    . If you cannot see the huge thumbprint-like structure on satellite view, you may want to, first try getting some glasses, .
    I imagine you are planning a summer vacation cruising on the canals of Mars. They were very clear to see and were mapped by many individuals.
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  90. #190  
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    Is it just me, or is "gilgamesh" starting to sound more and more like "kalopin" as time goes by ...
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  91. #191  
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    I was wondering that for a while, but the comments have remained to restrained so far.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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  92. #192  
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    They probably are the same person. Both their IP addresses originate from around the same area, using the same internet company.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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  93. #193  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Is it just me, or is "gilgamesh" starting to sound more and more like "kalopin" as time goes by ...
    The thought of sock puppet had occurred to me, but the styles are sufficiently different I can't be sure.
    The do seem to have a similar inabilty to provide any real evidence for any of the claims.
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  94. #194  
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    I assumed from almost the second post by Gilgamesh that he was Kalopin. Otherwise you have to believe in meme theory.
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