Notices
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Gravity well depiction in TV science

  1. #1 Gravity well depiction in TV science 
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    224
    Oh my, watched another science programme showing a gravity well in two dimensions.
    Showed and described, the gravity well of a black hole as a funnel in the fabric of
    spacetime. When will this nonsense stop... Any place I go to on earth at sea level,
    gravity is the same. A gravity well has three dimensions, not two, so cannot be
    described as a funnel. How can we educate the up coming generation in science,
    if we cannot teach them the basics right.
    nokton.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Comet Dust Collector Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    2,848
    Quote Originally Posted by nokton View Post
    Oh my, watched another science programme showing a gravity well in two dimensions.
    Showed and described, the gravity well of a black hole as a funnel in the fabric of
    spacetime. When will this nonsense stop... Any place I go to on earth at sea level,
    gravity is the same. A gravity well has three dimensions, not two, so cannot be
    described as a funnel. How can we educate the up coming generation in science,
    if we cannot teach them the basics right.
    nokton.
    It's an analogy, not reality. It's a way to help people grasp a concenpt, not reality.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,229
    Quote Originally Posted by nokton View Post
    Oh my, watched another science programme showing a gravity well in two dimensions.
    Showed and described, the gravity well of a black hole as a funnel in the fabric of
    spacetime. When will this nonsense stop... Any place I go to on earth at sea level,
    gravity is the same. A gravity well has three dimensions, not two, so cannot be
    described as a funnel. How can we educate the up coming generation in science,
    if we cannot teach them the basics right.
    nokton.
    Yes, as said, it is an analogy, a tool to illustrate what happens in 3D. Tell me, how would you depict a gravity well in 3D?

    The thing is, gravity is a curvature of space. Curvature is a property that even something in only 2D can have and a funnel for a black hole and an indentation on a sheet for non-black hole sources of gravity is the way to depict it as an analogy to the 3D reality. You use the analogy by imagining the perspective of a being that is in the plane of the funnel.

    In short, you simply appear to not understand the analogies in the first place.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nokton View Post
    Oh my, watched another science programme showing a gravity well in two dimensions.
    Showed and described, the gravity well of a black hole as a funnel in the fabric of
    spacetime. When will this nonsense stop... Any place I go to on earth at sea level,
    gravity is the same. A gravity well has three dimensions, not two, so cannot be
    described as a funnel. How can we educate the up coming generation in science,
    if we cannot teach them the basics right.
    nokton.
    Yes, as said, it is an analogy, a tool to illustrate what happens in 3D. Tell me, how would you depict a gravity well in 3D?

    The thing is, gravity is a curvature of space. Curvature is a property that even something in only 2D can have and a funnel for a black hole and an indentation on a sheet for non-black hole sources of gravity is the way to depict it as an analogy to the 3D reality. You use the analogy by imagining the perspective of a being that is in the plane of the funnel.

    In short, you simply appear to not understand the analogies in the first place.
    OK Kalster, consider this, give gravity a colour, say blue, the intensity of which determines the gravitational force about the object,
    from pale blue at a far distance, to dark blue near the surface, the colour depth determined by the gravity of the mass of the object.
    Feel you understand, my friend.
    nokton.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Moderator Moderator TheBiologista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,564
    Quote Originally Posted by nokton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nokton View Post
    Oh my, watched another science programme showing a gravity well in two dimensions.
    Showed and described, the gravity well of a black hole as a funnel in the fabric of
    spacetime. When will this nonsense stop... Any place I go to on earth at sea level,
    gravity is the same. A gravity well has three dimensions, not two, so cannot be
    described as a funnel. How can we educate the up coming generation in science,
    if we cannot teach them the basics right.
    nokton.
    Yes, as said, it is an analogy, a tool to illustrate what happens in 3D. Tell me, how would you depict a gravity well in 3D?

    The thing is, gravity is a curvature of space. Curvature is a property that even something in only 2D can have and a funnel for a black hole and an indentation on a sheet for non-black hole sources of gravity is the way to depict it as an analogy to the 3D reality. You use the analogy by imagining the perspective of a being that is in the plane of the funnel.

    In short, you simply appear to not understand the analogies in the first place.
    OK Kalster, consider this, give gravity a colour, say blue, the intensity of which determines the gravitational force about the object,
    from pale blue at a far distance, to dark blue near the surface, the colour depth determined by the gravity of the mass of the object.
    Feel you understand, my friend.
    nokton.
    But gravity is a result of curvature, not some sort of "intensity". What you're describing is not a bad way of representing a gravitational field at all, and it might get across the 3D element rather well if done properly, but it doesn't get across that curvature trait of gravity, which is what we're trying to do when we use the 2D curvature analogy. It serves a specific purpose, your analogy does something a bit different. All analogies are ultimately lacking in some way, I suppose.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBiologista View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nokton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nokton View Post
    Oh my, watched another science programme showing a gravity well in two dimensions.
    Showed and described, the gravity well of a black hole as a funnel in the fabric of
    spacetime. When will this nonsense stop... Any place I go to on earth at sea level,
    gravity is the same. A gravity well has three dimensions, not two, so cannot be
    described as a funnel. How can we educate the up coming generation in science,
    if we cannot teach them the basics right.
    nokton.
    Yes, as said, it is an analogy, a tool to illustrate what happens in 3D. Tell me, how would you depict a gravity well in 3D?

    The thing is, gravity is a curvature of space. Curvature is a property that even something in only 2D can have and a funnel for a black hole and an indentation on a sheet for non-black hole sources of gravity is the way to depict it as an analogy to the 3D reality. You use the analogy by imagining the perspective of a being that is in the plane of the funnel.

    In short, you simply appear to not understand the analogies in the first place.
    OK Kalster, consider this, give gravity a colour, say blue, the intensity of which determines the gravitational force about the object,
    from pale blue at a far distance, to dark blue near the surface, the colour depth determined by the gravity of the mass of the object.
    Feel you understand, my friend.
    nokton.
    But gravity is a result of curvature, not some sort of "intensity". What you're describing is not a bad way of representing a gravitational field at all, and it might get across the 3D element rather well if done properly, but it doesn't get across that curvature trait of gravity, which is what we're trying to do when we use the 2D curvature analogy. It serves a specific purpose, your analogy does something a bit different. All analogies are ultimately lacking in some way, I suppose.
    Of course Bio, but the curve you speak of only occurs within the gravity well, which is uniform within the body mass of the object.
    I was speaking hypothetically if you will, about colour, was trying to portray colour as a means of explaining increasing gravity
    around a massive object in 3D. Gravity, my friend, is not the result of curvature, rather the cause of it.
    Enjoy contact with you Bio, hope it will continue.
    nokton.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Moderator Moderator TheBiologista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,564
    Quote Originally Posted by nokton View Post
    Gravity, my friend, is not the result of curvature, rather the cause of it.
    You sure about that? I thought that mass is the cause of spacetime curvature, and that gravity is a consequence of that curvature, and therefore a consequence of mass.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Quagma SpeedFreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    2,787
    Quote Originally Posted by nokton View Post
    Gravity, my friend, is not the result of curvature, rather the cause of it.
    Wrong. TheBiologista has it right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Pull gravity versus controversial Push gravity
    By LeavingQuietly in forum Physics
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: July 12th, 2012, 11:06 PM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: June 8th, 2011, 02:57 AM
  3. Bad science and gravity wells
    By nokton in forum Physics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: October 18th, 2010, 06:19 PM
  4. The Gravity of Newton and the gravity of Einstein
    By jsaldea12 in forum Personal Theories & Alternative Ideas
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 27th, 2010, 08:22 PM
  5. This Week in Science - Online Weekly Science Radio Show
    By Marshall Clark in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 14th, 2005, 03:07 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •