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Thread: question on earth phases from the moon

  1. #1 question on earth phases from the moon 
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    this picture has me clueless:



    i understand that though the sun its at 3 o clock as can be seen by the rover shadow the earth phase is not half earth as there would be half moon with the sun in that position since moon light is stronger than suns light for being closer

    is this correct?



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  3. #2  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Photoshop


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  4. #3  
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    i got it from a serious site:

    http://www.fanpop.com/spots/space/im...pace-wallpaper

    its supposed to be real

    edit:

    if you browse that link i gave youll see none is suppose to be faked
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  5. #4  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Nervertheless I am as certain as I can be that these are manipulated images. I would not call them fakes, since that implies an intent to decieve. I suspect more likely the creator of the shots thought they would look nice - which they do.

    I'm not sure where you are reading that all posted pictures are genuine. I can't see that anywhere on your link.

    I'm confident if you searched through NASA photos of moon trips you would find the two examples without any Earth hanging in the sky.
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    all right at first i concealed my thought that this had been photoshoped not to look as a craccpot for realizing it was fake

    but theres something odd on earth phases

    1st on 99.9% of space walk earth is on full earth phase

    http://www.google.es/search?q=space+...ed=0CBoQ_AUoAQ

    so is there an explication for this

    and talking of earth phases:

    how can be the back of the moon illuminated if the sun is on the opposite side?

    http://www.nasaimages.org/luna...39~39&mi=93&trs=1828


    the moon sun its at 6 oclock while the ship sun its at 3 o clock as can be seen by its tail shadow

    http://www.nasaimages.org/luna...9~39&mi=108&trs=1828

    the astronaut sun its at 9 oclock as can be seen by its shadow earths sun its at 3 0 clock

    http://www.nasaimages.org/luna...39~39&mi=159&trs=979


    earth sun its at 12 o clock the stick of the umbrella shadow its at 8 oclock

    http://www.nasaimages.org/luna...39~39&mi=443&trs=979
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    but theres something odd on earth phases
    1st on 99.9% of space walk earth is on full earth phase
    http://www.google.es/search?q=space+...ed=0CBoQ_AUoAQ
    so is there an explication for this
    Certainly.
    1. Several of the photographs, in fact all, show insufficient amount of the planet to knwo what phase it is in relative to camera position.
    2. All these photos are NASA marketing. They look prettier with Earth in the background.

    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    and talking of earth phases:

    how can be the back of the moon illuminated if the sun is on the opposite side?
    Earthlight.

    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    [the moon sun its at 6 oclock while the ship sun its at 3 o clock as can be seen by its tail shadow
    Incorrect. If the moons sun is at six o'clock I take that to be equivalent to you saying the moon is full. It isn't. And the tail shadow is certainly not consistent with a 3 o'clock poistion.

    I cannot agree with your interpretation of the sun's position in the last two examples. Those interpretations are either unwarranted or even contradicted.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    all right at first i concealed my thought that this had been photoshoped not to look as a craccpot for realizing it was fake

    but theres something odd on earth phases

    1st on 99.9% of space walk earth is on full earth phase

    http://www.google.es/search?q=space+...ed=0CBoQ_AUoAQ

    so is there an explication for this

    and talking of earth phases:

    how can be the back of the moon illuminated if the sun is on the opposite side?

    http://www.nasaimages.org/luna...39~39&mi=93&trs=1828
    As explained in the description, it is being lit by light reflected by the Earth.


    the moon sun its at 6 oclock while the ship sun its at 3 o clock as can be seen by its tail shadow

    http://www.nasaimages.org/luna...9~39&mi=108&trs=1828
    I see nothing amiss in this photo. The Moon and Earth are lit from the Right and so is the tail. The tail's shadow falls where I would expect it to given its trapezoidal shape and the fact that the shadow is falling on a curved surface.

    the astronaut sun its at 9 oclock as can be seen by its shadow earths sun its at 3 0 clock



    http://www.nasaimages.org/luna...39~39&mi=159&trs=979
    There simply isn't enough of the Earth showing to determine which direction the light illuminating it is coming from, and there is most certainly nothing that indicates that it could not be coming from the same direction as the light illuminating the astronaut.


    earth sun its at 12 o clock the stick of the umbrella shadow its at 8 oclock

    http://www.nasaimages.org/luna...39~39&mi=443&trs=979
    This this case, the "umbrella" is the parabolic reflector for the Lunar rover antenna.
    If you look closely, you will note that it is made of a mesh-like material that is somewhat see-through. The dark vertical line on the bottom half (which is what I assume you are referring to) is from the stalk that extends outward from the center of the reflector on the other side, and not from the support staff. As such, it is perfectly positioned for the direction the light is coming from.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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    thanks for answering a self admitted crackpot like me thats very nice from you

    check this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni5PC_Optz4&feature=fvst

    why earth is always on full earth phase?

    the ship circunvalates the earth several times

    why it doesnt get to a zone where the phase of the earth is half earth phase like half moon?

    or does the ship follow a sunstationary orbit?

    a revolution every year
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    thanks for answering a self admitted crackpot like me thats very nice from you

    check this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni5PC_Optz4&feature=fvst

    why earth is always on full earth phase?
    It isn't. for several seconds of the clip it shows the night-day terminator passing by. It is also obvious that there is a jump in the video just before this where a chunk of the video was edited out. (most likely to remove most of the boring part where the Earth is in shadow and there is nothing to see.)
    For much of the second part of the clip, you do not see enough of the Earth to tell what phase it is in.

    the ship circunvalates the earth several times
    How is the world did you ever come to that conclusion? Nothing in that clip suggests that it includes more than part of one circuit.

    why it doesnt get to a zone where the phase of the earth is half earth phase like half moon?


    Do you really believe that if NASA were to fake all of this stuff that they wouldn't take the time and care to get things like the shadows and phases of the Earth right?

    or does the ship follow a sunstationary orbit?

    a revolution every year
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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  12. #11  
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    well 1st im probably less convinced its fake than your convinced its real, anyway your doing a good job bringing down my arguments and i admitt i have no proof, just something to question things

    do you think this real?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBL98p0wZ7g
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  13. #12  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    i see you have quite strong trust on americans to not see what i see

    what about the chines do you trust the chinese alike the americans?
    Really! Please stop being so frigging stupid! As Meteor Wayne says I'm not going to waste any more time on pointing out how assinine your points are.

    And to answer your questions - I trust no one. However, I see nothing abnormal in anything you have posted. Nor do I see any motive for any faking. Nor do I see any evidence that if ther is any faking or manipulation that it has been done by NASA or a government agency.
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    im convinced youre more convinced the space walks are real than im convinced they are fake

    if you want to discuss a single issue lets discuss this

    how can there be acelerating bubles in space?

    could the chinese space walk having been filmed underwater with a fake model earth?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBL98p0wZ7g

    this video makes me doubt

    i have no conviction

    you dont even doubt infront of an evidence and insult who who doubts
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    im convinced youre more convinced the space walks are real than im convinced they are fake
    That is an opinion which is of questionable accuracy, doubtful relevance and zero interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    if you want to discuss a single issue lets discuss this
    That sounds much more productive. (And relevant.)

    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    how can there be acelerating bubles in space?
    I encourage you to attempt to be more precise. I have no trouble envisaging accelerating bubbles in space. Perhaps you meant to say how can there be accelerating bubbles, in a vacuum and in microgravity. I think I can explain that to, but its probably not relevant since I think you meant this in the context of the following video. However, such ambiguity is sloppy and does not dispose one to look favourably on arguments thus presented.

    Now I've looked at the video that concerns you. Address these points please, to allow us to proceed.
    1. Provide a link to an official Chinese space agency site that states categorically this video was a video of their spacewalk and not of a trainng exercise.
    2. Explain to me how presenting a training exercise as the real thing proves that the real thing did not occur. (Here's a helpful hint - it's an impossible task.)
    3. Explain to me why I should pay attention to anyone like the youtube creator. i.e. a person who complains in one moment that the Earth is always in the same position then a momenet later criticises the clouds for moving to fast. Well, duh! That's not the clouds moving, that's the spacecraft orbiting the planet.

    you dont even doubt infront of an evidence and insult who who doubts
    Look, if English is your second or third language I'll make a more determined effort to understand your ungrammatical, unpunctuated, typographically faulty writing. Otherwise please try harder. Trust me - that's not an insult, but your language is, unless - as noted - it is not your native tongue.
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    1) a training exercise underwater with a fake model earth?

    2) a training exercise underwater with a fake model earth?

    3)you can trust that you tube user as you can trust the china cruel dictators

    "YOU say they are bubles(sic). I see no such thing "

    then what do you see that those litle acelerating things are?

    edit:

    also you contradict yourself: you imply its underwater exercise and the cloud move fast for being in orbit
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  17. #16  
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    Now I've looked at the video that concerns you. Address these points please, to allow us to proceed.
    1. Provide a link to an official Chinese space agency site that states categorically this video was a video of their spacewalk and not of a trainng exercise.
    2. Explain to me how presenting a training exercise as the real thing proves that the real thing did not occur. (Here's a helpful hint - it's an impossible task.)
    3. Explain to me why I should pay attention to anyone like the youtube creator. i.e. a person who complains in one moment that the Earth is always in the same position then a momenet later criticises the clouds for moving to fast. Well, duh! That's not the clouds moving, that's the spacecraft orbiting the planet.
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    1) theres no need for link, whats the point of doing an underwater exercise and put there in the swiming pool a detailed model of earth

    show me a video of an underwater exercise with a model of earth

    2) again its not training exercise cause in exercises they dont put huge earth models

    3)another source smae video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UJJp...eature=related
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    1) theres no need for link, whats the point of doing an underwater exercise and put there in the swiming pool a detailed model of earth
    A. I wish you to establish that this video, which for sake of argument we shall assume to be a fake, was faked by the Chinese government, or one of their agencies. Until you can demonstrate that the video shown on youtube is sourced and unaltered from an official Chinese source it is wholly inadmissable as evidence. You claim this is faked by the Chinese government. Your first step is to prove that this video came from the Chinese government.
    B. The point of putting such a 'model' into a training exercise would be to make the training exercise more realistic. (Cleary you have never been involved in developing training exercises.)

    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    show me a video of an underwater exercise with a model of earth
    If your claim are partly correct then that is exactly what we have both been looking at.

    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    2) again its not training exercise cause in exercises they dont put huge earth models
    A. Rubbish! In your opinion they would not do this.
    B. However, that is beside the point. Let us assume, again for sake of argument, that this was a training exercise presented as the 'real thing'. You seem not to understand that this does not prove that a space walk did not take place. It would only prove that the Chinese had elected to show a fake rather than the real thing. Without straining my brain I can think immediately of two reasons they would do this.
    At best then, even if you could prove this was a fake, you have only the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence to claim the walk never occured, since plausible alternative reasons to fake it exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    But is not an official Chinese source, is it?
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  20. #19  
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    man at least you realize thats amde underwater

    meteor wayne believes its real almost fanatically

    that could be drops from the piss of the astronauts acelerater by the ship thrust or just the air of the container of piss

    as you see its as bad be a crackpot fanatic like many here or a rational fantic like most here

    im in a sane questioning all

    thats the question nowadays whats real whats not:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csuQx...re=uploademail

    edit:

    oh and you realize i dont speak chinese to find an oficial source do you?
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    oh and you realize i dont speak chinese to find an oficial source do you?
    That's not our problem, is it? You're the guy with the claim, back it up.
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    well i claim space walks MAY be false

    you claim they CERTAINLY are truth

    so do i have to show an oficial chinese source saying that video is in space

    or dou have to proof that film was TRAINING

    i can play that game too

    edit:

    i just noticed this guy so convinced that was in space as to call me stupid for questioning deleted its threads, thats funny

    i wonder how much you can influence the world over the net

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxZZ6...eature=related
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  23. #22  
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    First, I never called you stupid. Either prove it with a quote, or retract that lie.

    Second, I did not delete my posts, there was a technical problem with the Science Forum. They are doing their best to recover as many as they can. Hopefully, they'll get them all, or most of them. If not, nothing I can do. Stuff happens.

    Third, why do you feel the need to post some unrelated youtube link at the end of so many of your posts. Are you unable to think for yourself?

    Ughhh, never mind....
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    man at least you realize thats amde underwater
    I have not realised that. I have, for sake of argument, considered the consequences that flow from such a situation. I can see some evidence that suggests some of the footage may have been shot in water. I also find it entirely plausible that the footage is wholly genuine.

    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    meteor wayne believes its real almost fanatically
    that could be drops from the piss of the astronauts acelerater by the ship thrust or just the air of the container of piss
    Do you think these are impossibilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    as you see its as bad be a crackpot fanatic like many here or a rational fantic like most here
    I suppose if I valued your opinion I would be offended by that remark, but really I'm just saddened. I don't believe it is fanatic to demand objective assessment of data and to question obvious agenda ridden, biased interpretations. You have a brain - please start using it productively.

    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    oh and you realize i dont speak chinese to find an oficial source do you?
    As The Biologista has said, that is your problem: you are the one making the novel claim.

    well i claim space walks MAY be false

    you claim they CERTAINLY are truth
    I've reread all my posts. Nowhere do I make such a claim. What I have stated is that none of the 'evidence' you have offered to demonstrate the space walks were faked is in any way convincing.

    I am open to the possibility that one or more photos, or videos may be faked. I don't think any of your arguments does much in the way of supporting such a belief.

    I am certain, within the limits of normal scepticism, that space walks have occured. The principle arguments in favour are:
    1) Difficulty of supressing fakery for over four decades.
    2) Absence of any credible motivation for sustaining such fakery for four and a half decades.
    3) Serious difficulty of explaining how certain space operations including repair to the Hubble telescope and construction of the ISS was possible without spacewalks.

    so do i have to show an oficial chinese source saying that video is in space

    or dou have to proof that film was TRAINING

    i can play that game too
    This is a science forum. In science the onus on making a case that runs counter to current thinking lies with the person making the claim. I have no idea whether or not the video you have linked to is an official Chinese one. If it is not, then any fakery on it can not easily be laid at the door of the Chinese government.

    I am surprised that you blithely accepted that the material - an essentially anonymous item on YouTube - is a genuine rendition of an official Chinese government release. Any person investigating this in an ethical and scientific manner would make the authentication process a priority.

    You have chosen not to do so. I ask myself, why? There seem to be two possibilities.
    1) You are so uneducated in the scientific method that you do not realise that such authentication is essential.
    2) You are extremely gullible and get excited by things that are anti-establishment in some way, so you choose deliberately to ignore the authtentication process.

    And you still haven't explained why you think a faked space walk video would prove that no space walk took place. Are you going to do so? Or will you being your rehabilitation by admitting that you can make no such conclusion?

    i just noticed this guy so convinced that was in space as to call me stupid for questioning deleted its threads, thats funny
    How do you know MeteroWayne deleted those threads? There are alternative possibilities. For example:
    1) They have been deleted by a moderator.
    2) There is a software fault that deleted them.
    3) someone has hacked into the system and deleted them.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    i just noticed this guy so convinced that was in space as to call me stupid for questioning deleted its threads, thats funny
    How do you know MeteroWayne deleted those threads? There are alternative possibilities. For example:
    1) They have been deleted by a moderator.
    2) There is a software fault that deleted them.
    3) someone has hacked into the system and deleted them.
    4) They contained spam, which MeteorWayne reported, and they accidentally got deleted during the cleanup process.


    A general trend I've noticed in luxtpm's posts is the desire to assume malice and conspiracy when misinterpretation of data and personal ignorance suffice.
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