Notices
Results 1 to 33 of 33
Like Tree4Likes
  • 1 Post By Neverfly
  • 3 Post By Lynx_Fox

Thread: Are we descendants of "alien" life?

  1. #1 Are we descendants of "alien" life? 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    52
    It's a strange conjecture, and I seem to be thrown into a storm of dilemmas after reading certain research papers and particularly History Channel's 5-series documentary on "Ancient Aliens".
    The funny thing is that I am probably, and sickeningly, a skeptic.


    Apparently there are a lot of coincidences around the world that seem ultimately paradoxical, and that an extreme amount of religions claim that alien life exists.

    The funny thing is that inserting the alien theory bridges the gap between science (like evolution/abiogenesis) and religion (talks about creation/astral realms...)


    One thing that caught my attention was the fact that the genome (technically speaking, definitely not the genes, but the non-coding areas) of human beings were too intelligently different from the rest.
    (http://cosmology.com/Cosmology2.html
    and
    http://journalofcosmology.com/Commentary203.html)


    There are really many other evidences that point to such a hypothesis being true, such as the Aztecs/the Egyptians/Vimana technology/NASA censorships/etc but being a skeptic I shall ask for more opinions. (:


    The million dollar question.

    What do you think?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    267
    are you asking whether we interbred with aliens or whether we were bred by aliens or something else entirely?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by granpa
    are you asking whether we interbred with aliens or whether we were bred by aliens or something else entirely?
    Nope, nothing like interbreeding. I'm actually just opening up realms of possibilities because it's just a hypothesis.

    But just for an example, we have the ancient astronaut theory.
    Where alien civilisations came to Earth and with their sophistication in technology, were thought of as Gods.

    Another theory states that we are bio-engineered by aliens from the common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans.

    I'm just wondering about how anyone else feels about these theories.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    267
    the bandwagon is going the opposite direction right about now.


    the earth is no longer the center of the solar system but its still the center of the universe.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Quote Originally Posted by theSocraticomplex
    I'm just wondering about how anyone else feels about these theories.
    Simplistic, juvenile nonsense based upon gross misinterpretations of evidence through ignorance or deceit and construction of false evidence. The authors of this trash are motivated by a desire to make money, peddling their fanciful 'theories'; the believers are seeking to distinguish themselves from the losers they are by deluding themselves that they no the 'truth'.

    These are the positive points of the theories. I dare some spoil sport will come along and say something negative.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Your Mama! GiantEvil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, Wa
    Posts
    2,311
    It's possible that some space debris(meteor) contained some complex molecules, which due to impact were "seeded" into an early earth environment. This however is not necessary to the formation of life, as a mix of atomic elements common to earth(carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen.) will form amino acid precursors with the addition of a little energy(solar, lightning, geothermal, etc...).

    If there were intelligent extraterrestrials aware of us, and they wanted something from us, then they would drop out of the sky in faster than light spacecraft, shoulder antimatter projection weapons, and take what they wanted. There would be two things we could do about it, nothing, and like it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    It's possible that some space debris(meteor) contained some complex molecules, which due to impact were "seeded" into an early earth environment.
    Actually, it's certain. Because everything on Earth came from space.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    It's possible that some space debris(meteor) contained some complex molecules, which due to impact were "seeded" into an early earth environment.
    Actually, it's certain. Because everything on Earth came from space.
    It is not certain that the complex molecules survived the accretion process. It is just very likely. Indeed some complex molecules were almost certainly created during the accretion process.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    52
    Hmm, so what were these complex molecules, amino acids, extremophiles?
    I heard DNA had a half-life of over a million years, and millions of lightyears...

    Do you people think abiogenesis/biopoesis or macro-evolution were possible?
    Panspermia?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Quote Originally Posted by theSocraticomplex
    Hmm, so what were these complex molecules, amino acids, extremophiles?
    There is a world of difference between complex organic molecules and extremophiles. The former are the building blocks of protein the latter are a sophisticated form of life.

    Over one hundred varities of organic molecule are known to be present in GMCs (Giant Molecular Clouds). Since the solar system formed from the collapse of sucha cloud it is reasonable to assume that these same molecules were supplied to the primeval Earth. Moreover amino acids have been detected in meterorites.

    Experiments impacting amino acid laden ice at velocities ane nergies comparable with cometary impact on the Earth have shown that peptides (precursors to proteins) are produced.

    Quote Originally Posted by theSocraticomplex
    I heard DNA had a half-life of over a million years, and millions of lightyears...
    Where did you hear this? Please not that light years is a distance, not a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by theSocraticomplex
    Do you people think abiogenesis/biopoesis or macro-evolution were possible?
    Panspermia?
    Abiogenesis somewhere is all but certain, unless we revert to a steady state theory of the universe in which the universe is eternal and life has always existed. Personally I lean marginally towards that abiogenesis occuring off planet in a GMC.

    I have no idea why you introduce macroevolution into the discussion at this point.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Where did you hear this? Please not that light years is a distance, not a time.Abiogenesis somewhere is all but certain, unless we revert to a steady state theory of the universe in which the universe is eternal and life has always existed. Personally I lean marginally towards that abiogenesis occuring off planet in a GMC.

    I have no idea why you introduce macroevolution into the discussion at this point.
    My untrained mind tends to skip over numerous crucial steps in logical thinking, and is extremely fickle with lateral thoughts, forgive me this once.
    I'll elaborate: I meant macro-evolution as a later consequence after abiogenesis has established the first cells, leading to more tangible lifeforms. Haha, I'll leave that to a different discussion then.

    I've never heard of GMCs, they seem pretty fascinating from what you've described. From the abiogenesis process I've heard of, it seems to require some sort of a solvent like water. Is there a sufficient water body within GMCs to facilitate abiogenesis?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    267
    water is just the medium.
    A simple self-replicating molecule in space wouldnt need a medium.
    space itself would be the medium.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by granpa
    water is just the medium.
    A simple self-replicating molecule in space wouldnt need a medium.
    space itself would be the medium.
    That seems quite likely... Can diffusion of such particles occur in vacuum space?
    I always thought the bombardment of water/air molecules serve crucial roles in faciliating diffusion...
    Micelle formations would require a hydrophobic and hydrophilic region, no?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    267
    simple self-replicating molecule
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by granpa
    simple self-replicating molecule
    Hmm I think i'm mistaken...
    I'm basing my Abiogenesis theory on the experiment that Dr Szostak carried out in his lab research, where fatty acids when subjected to pH levels form micelles/vesicles, and then subsequently go down a process that seems to be based on the medium water... the self-replicating complex molecules (nucleotides) seem to only do so when concentrated within this simple vesicular machineries...

    Are we talking about the same stuff?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
     

  18. #17  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Quote Originally Posted by theSocraticomplexFrom
    the abiogenesis process I've heard of, it seems to require some sort of a solvent like water. Is there a sufficient water body within GMCs to facilitate abiogenesis?
    Water, generally in the form of ice, is abundant in GMCs. These bodies cover many light years in extent and contain masses greater than many hundreds, indeed thousands of stellar masses. They are typically very cold, only a few degrees above absolute zero. However, they can be heated by collapse or by radiation from young stars that form within them. This can bring the temperature up to that of liquid water.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    267
    thought I would add this in

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanobe
    1. It is a living organism (contains DNA or some analogue, and reproduces).
    2. Has a morphology similar to Actinomycetes and fungi.
    3. Nanobes are about 20 nm in diameter, which may be too small to contain the basic elements for an organism to exist (DNA, ribosomes (20 nm), etc.), suggesting that if they grow and reproduce they would need to do so in an unconventional way.
    4. The Martian meteorite ALH84001, discovered in 1984 in the Antarctic, contained similar tubular structures which some astrobiologists suggested could be evidence of life at an earlier time on Mars.[5]
    heres a pretty nice website
    http://www.panspermia.org/index.htm
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    GMCs... are typically very cold, only a few degrees above absolute zero. However, they can be heated by collapse or by radiation from young stars that form within them. This can bring the temperature up to that of liquid water.
    At this stage the local bit of GMC can form a protoplanetary disc around the young star. The disc may differentiate into bands, clumps, and then planetesimals, and ultimately planets, as in our own system. The mass and volume of this early disc would have been much greater than the residue of planets we have today, so there were very probability bands of (watery) bodies heated to a comfortable bathwater. Meanwhile, the Earth's surface was still molten and lacking water.

    Life in the protoplanetary disc (or later planetessimals) is the easiest hypothesis to disprove. We just have to retrieve and analyze the residual water preserved especially in the asteroid belt.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    52
    @Ophiolite and Pong:
    So if i didn't misunderstand, it's believed that life formed within these temperate waters? If Earth was barren and molten back then, how did life get transported to her? Would it mean that the life formed within the waters travel on asteroids and hit these proto-planets at a later date?


    @granpa: That's a pretty neat site, thanks for the share!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Quote Originally Posted by theSocraticomplex
    @Ophiolite and Pong:
    So if i didn't misunderstand, it's believed that life formed within these temperate waters? If Earth was barren and molten back then, how did life get transported to her? Would it mean that the life formed within the waters travel on asteroids and hit these proto-planets at a later date?
    The conventional view is that life formed on the Earth shortly after conditions became suitable. This was probably aided by the input of organic molecules formed originally in the GMC, or in the solar accretion disc.

    An alternative view (generally considered marginal, or extreme) is that life itself could have originated in a GMC and been deposited on Earth where it prospered immediately the conditions were suitable to do so. A variant of this would have life originating on another planet then blasted into space by a large impact, travelling quiescent for tens of thousands of years until it encountered another planet.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Forum Professor Wild Cobra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,140
    Quote Originally Posted by theSocraticomplex
    Another theory states that we are bio-engineered by aliens from the common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans.

    I'm just wondering about how anyone else feels about these theories.
    You just described Intelligent Design in general.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    (generally considered marginal, or extreme)
    Yeah, the conventional thinking starts by asking "How did life on Earth begin?" The framing is inadvertent.

    I like the disc-life hypothesis because it is straightforward to prove/disprove conclusively.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,035
    Supposing that aliens did play some role in the arrival of homo-sapiens and maybe the hominids and neanderthals..... it would probably be a simple type of interference like practicing animal husbandry on some apes until they got the result they were looking for.


    The abiogenesis discussion is interesting, but probably not the work of intelligent aliens. Maybe alien materials, though, right? I guess it gives us a wider variety of environments to hypothesize about, rather than having to fit the complex chemicals' formation into our own pre-life world, but it still leaves us with the question of whether any planets nearby had a better potential.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25 the alien life caused by 
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1
    a meteorite that fell to earth and killed the dinosaurs? the thing that made it so we could live here without dieing from huge reptilian monsters
    anyways what of the fact that we need to be more worried about getting to another planet to survive hawking says that if we dont do something soon we will all end and humanity will be over also their is life on other planets except they are not evolved to the point of flight or even actual thought process yet or else we would of at least seen some form of life return or signals that we send out like idiots to space what happens when it does reach intelligent life and that life comes here and takes over its like a syfy novel but hey that just y imagination getting the best of me we probably evolved from the point of the meteorites crash on earth that killed the dinosaurs, but theres also the theory that the dinosaurs died from volcanic eruption too what do you think?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Apocalyptic Paradise
    Posts
    6,613
    Quote Originally Posted by ranma View Post
    a meteorite that fell to earth and killed the dinosaurs? the thing that made it so we could live here without dieing from huge reptilian monsters
    Yes, instead we have huge mammal monsters.
    Quote Originally Posted by ranma View Post
    anyways what of the fact that we need to be more worried about getting to another planet to survive hawking says that if we dont do something soon we will all end and humanity will be over also their is life on other planets except they are not evolved to the point of flight or even actual thought process yet or else we would of at least seen some form of life return or signals that we send out like idiots to space what happens when it does reach intelligent life and that life comes here and takes over its like a syfy novel but hey that just y imagination getting the best of me we probably evolved from the point of the meteorites crash on earth that killed the dinosaurs, but theres also the theory that the dinosaurs died from volcanic eruption too what do you think?
    I think that survival traits aren't so easy to predict.
    I'm all for exploring space- but for energy demands, expansion, not because life will end as we know it.

    As far as the dinosaurs, it's is plausible that some of them did make it into space. After-all, that meteorite hit really, really, really hard.
    SpeedFreek likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    Forum Sophomore jakesyl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    116
    Yes we are obviously organic matter formed on a comet
    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error; but who does strive to do deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    5,364
    Quote Originally Posted by ranma View Post
    a meteorite that fell to earth and killed the dinosaurs? the thing that made it so we could live here without dieing from huge reptilian monsters
    anyways what of the fact that we need to be more worried about getting to another planet to survive hawking says that if we dont do something soon we will all end and humanity will be over also their is life on other planets except they are not evolved to the point of flight or even actual thought process yet or else we would of at least seen some form of life return or signals that we send out like idiots to space what happens when it does reach intelligent life and that life comes here and takes over its like a syfy novel but hey that just y imagination getting the best of me we probably evolved from the point of the meteorites crash on earth that killed the dinosaurs, but theres also the theory that the dinosaurs died from volcanic eruption too what do you think?
    Well, the fossil record is quite clear that mammals were here long before the asteroid (not meteor) impact 65 million years ago. So your assertion that mammals came from the impacting object is incorrect.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,416
    Humans are so closely linked genetically and morphological with other life here on Earth as well as ancient record , that if aliens did contribute it was either very tiny amount or at least a couple billion years ago.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #30  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Humans are so closely linked genetically and morphological with other life here on Earth as well as ancient record , that if aliens did contribute it was either very tiny amount or at least a couple billion years ago.
    A couple billion years ago........
    Before the late (late?) heavy bombardment
    EEEEKK Oh NOooo
    That's gotta hurt
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #31  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,416
    Animal (including human) mitochondrial strong genetic resemblance to bacterial genomes sinks any recent alien planting humans ideas.

    I think most aliens ideas are in large part a mix of the "humans are special" fallacy and "we couldn't have evolved" ideas.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #32  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,519
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Animal (including human) mitochondrial strong genetic resemblance to bacterial genomes sinks any recent alien planting humans ideas.

    It also begs the question where those "alien designers" came from.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #33  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,737
    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    It also begs the question where those "alien designers" came from.
    That's easy to answer: Sirius.
    And the reason it is the brightest star is because they have left their lights on, to show us where they are.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •