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Thread: I'm Looking For Special Research Group

  1. #1 I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
    ABV
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    I'm looking for physics lab which can do special research my physics hypotheses from this site.
    http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-...l-mechanics-2#
    I'm not physics scientist and hypotheses form this site wasn't written as scientific research document.
    I have a doubt about classical mechanic motion principle. The modern physics say the nature has two main translational and rotational motions with their own law of momentum conservation. My hypotheses introduces the nature has just one main rotational and translational motion with it's own law of momentum conservation and rotational motion and translational motion are part of this main motion.
    The modern physic says net off all translational momentums of all objects into isolated system will be a zero after repulsive action.
    My hypotheses says net off all translational momentums of all objects into isolated system will be a zero after repulsive action if all objects of isolated system will conduct translational motion only. If one of the object after repulsive action will conduct a translational and rotational motion then the net of all translational momentums of all objects into isolated system will not equal to zero. I made some experiment which it shown on my site. However, it is not enough to show good result without physics lab environment. I want to check it and spend some money for it and prove or disapprove this modern physics motion concept. I'm looking to physics lab which can do custom research and produce this experiment. Would it possible to do this in your lab? I would appreciate if you look into my site.

    Thank you


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  3. #2 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    I'm looking for physics lab which can do special research my physics hypotheses from this site.
    http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-...l-mechanics-2#
    I'm not physics scientist and hypotheses form this site wasn't written as scientific research document.
    I have a doubt about classical mechanic motion principle. The modern physics say the nature has two main translational and rotational motions with their own law of momentum conservation. My hypotheses introduces the nature has just one main rotational and translational motion with it's own law of momentum conservation and rotational motion and translational motion are part of this main motion.
    The modern physic says net off all translational momentums of all objects into isolated system will be a zero after repulsive action.
    My hypotheses says net off all translational momentums of all objects into isolated system will be a zero after repulsive action if all objects of isolated system will conduct translational motion only. If one of the object after repulsive action will conduct a translational and rotational motion then the net of all translational momentums of all objects into isolated system will not equal to zero. I made some experiment which it shown on my site. However, it is not enough to show good result without physics lab environment. I want to check it and spend some money for it and prove or disapprove this modern physics motion concept. I'm looking to physics lab which can do custom research and produce this experiment. Would it possible to do this in your lab? I would appreciate if you look into my site.

    Thank you
    What you appear to be talking about is in the realm of classical mechanics. That subject has been quite well understood for several centuries and there is essentially nothing left that requires cutting edge research.

    I suggest that you simply read a good book on the subject. The standard graduate text is Classical Mechanics by Goldstein.


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  4. #3 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket

    What you appear to be talking about is in the realm of classical mechanics. That subject has been quite well understood for several centuries and there is essentially nothing left that requires cutting edge research.

    I suggest that you simply read a good book on the subject. The standard graduate text is Classical Mechanics by Goldstein.
    I perfectly understand modern classical mechanics. Actually, how I got degree without that . However, I would like to test modern physics motion principle by this experiment. I would like to see how law of momentum conservation works for objects which conduct different type of motion. Translational and rotational and translational motions.

    The experiment is very simple.
    Ideally, two objects aligned differently from repulsive point. One of them will conduct translational motion. Another object will conduct rotational and translational motion. The result of experiment is measure horizontal velocities of these objects from repulsive point and calculate their translational momentums.
    Base on modern classical mechanics these momentums must have same value with opposite directions.

    I have a doubt about this, because base on my motion concept these momentums will have same value if objects will have translational motion only. If one of the objects will have rotational and translational motion then part of the energy will be spend for rotation of this object and horizontal velocities of these objects won't have same value. My concept about main rotational and translational motion may be wrong. However, I would like to see an experiment which will prove modern physics motion concept about two main independent motions.
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  5. #4 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket

    What you appear to be talking about is in the realm of classical mechanics. That subject has been quite well understood for several centuries and there is essentially nothing left that requires cutting edge research.

    I suggest that you simply read a good book on the subject. The standard graduate text is Classical Mechanics by Goldstein.
    I perfectly understand modern classical mechanics. Actually, how I got degree without that . However, I would like to test modern physics motion principle by this experiment. I would like to see how law of momentum conservation works for objects which conduct different type of motion. Translational and rotational and translational motions.

    The experiment is very simple.
    Ideally, two objects aligned differently from repulsive point. One of them will conduct translational motion. Another object will conduct rotational and translational motion. The result of experiment is measure horizontal velocities of these objects from repulsive point and calculate their translational momentums.
    Base on modern classical mechanics these momentums must have same value with opposite directions.

    I have a doubt about this, because base on my motion concept these momentums will have same value if objects will have translational motion only. If one of the objects will have rotational and translational motion then part of the energy will be spend for rotation of this object and horizontal velocities of these objects won't have same value. My concept about main rotational and translational motion may be wrong. However, I would like to see an experiment which will prove modern physics motion concept about two main independent motions.
    You need to go back and study classical mechanics. Your statement that you understand the subject completely seems to be incorrect, as this problem is quite obviously resolved using simple principles of mechanics. The net translational momentum of a body undergoing pure rotation is zero. The rotation has nothing to do with your question.

    Your problem appears to be a lack of understanding of kinetics.
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  6. #5 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    You need to go back and study classical mechanics. Your statement that you understand the subject completely seems to be incorrect, as this problem is quite obviously resolved using simple principles of mechanics. The net translational momentum of a body undergoing pure rotation is zero. The rotation has nothing to do with your question.

    Your problem appears to be a lack of understanding of kinetics.
    I don't have a question I have a doubt. I would like to prove modern classical mechanical motion principle by an experiment. May I?
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  7. #6 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    You need to go back and study classical mechanics. Your statement that you understand the subject completely seems to be incorrect, as this problem is quite obviously resolved using simple principles of mechanics. The net translational momentum of a body undergoing pure rotation is zero. The rotation has nothing to do with your question.

    Your problem appears to be a lack of understanding of kinetics.
    I don't have a question I have a doubt. I would like to prove modern classical mechanical motion principle by an experiment. May I?
    Certainly you may.

    Whether or not you can is quite a different question.

    There is certainly no necessity for doing this as classical mechanics has been quite thoroughly researched and the necessary experiments have been conducted. Not only is classical mechanics well supported with laboratory experiments it is the basis of nearly all of engineering work and is thereby verified daily with the plethora of mechanisms that work.

    At the extremes it also known that classical mechanics has limitations. It is not valid at the atomic level where quantum effects are known to be important. It is not valid when speeds nearing the speed of light are important and the effects of special relativity become important, and it is not valid in the presence of extremely large gravitatinal fields where general relativity is needed to accurately describe the physics.

    For those conditions that are commonly encountered, classical mechanics is quite sufficient and is thoroughtly backed by a mountain of empirical evidence.

    If you want to do experiments, then knock yourself out. But if your experiments contradict classical mechanics in any but the extreme cases noted above, then it is your experimental technique or evaluation of the data that will be wrong and not the physical theories of Newton, LaGrange or Hamilton.

    BTW your original post dis not ask the question as to whether or not you might do an experiment ragarding classical mechanics but whether or not there was an existing research group who would do such an experiment for you. While you most certainly may do such research yourself I doubt that there is any established research group of any competency that would waste time doing such an experiment themselves.
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  8. #7 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    There is certainly no necessity for doing this as classical mechanics has been quite thoroughly researched and the necessary experiments have been conducted. Not only is classical mechanics well supported with laboratory experiments it is the basis of nearly all of engineering work and is thereby verified daily with the plethora of mechanisms that work.
    Probably, you don't know histories of big discoveries. They usually come on places where scientists have no doubt about physics theories.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    BTW your original post dis not ask the question as to whether or not you might do an experiment ragarding classical mechanics but whether or not there was an existing research group who would do such an experiment for you. While you most certainly may do such research yourself I doubt that there is any established research group of any competency that would waste time doing such an experiment themselves.
    Anyway, I would try to find a lab who can make this experiment for me. May be this hypotheses is not very interesting for them. However, the money what I would pay them will support and help for their other researches.
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    You wrote: "Anyway, I would try to find a lab who can make this experiment for me. May be this hypotheses is not very interesting for them. However, the money what I would pay them will support and help for their other researches."

    That is not how things are done in science. You first have to convince scientists that your hypothesis is worth considering. This is not always an easy task.
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  10. #9 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    Probably, you don't know histories of big discoveries. They usually come on places where scientists have no doubt about physics theories.
    Wrong. I am quite familiar with the process of discovery in mathematics and the sciences.

    There is no place where there is no doubt. However, progress in physics in modern times does not occur by discovering that established theories are completely wrong within what are established domains of validity, but rather by discovering that the theories do not provide sufficiently accurate predictions under extreme circumstances.

    That is why it is KNOWN that 1) classical mechanics is extremely accurate under most conditions and 2) it is inadequate, in other words "wrong" and must be suplanted by better theories when one has to describe phenomena involving the very small, high speeds relative to the speed of light or high gravitational fields. In fact classical mechanics is no longer a fundamental theory of physics, but is known only to be a very good approximation under most circumstances. The pillars of physical theory are general relativity and the quantum field theories of the electroweak force and the strong interaction.

    And that is why you are not only completely out to lunch but also that your "theories" are in fact irrelevant. Being both wrong and irrelevant is a rather pitiable state, but not one that is going to get you any recognition or get anyone to take your silly ideas seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    BTW your original post dis not ask the question as to whether or not you might do an experiment ragarding classical mechanics but whether or not there was an existing research group who would do such an experiment for you. While you most certainly may do such research yourself I doubt that there is any established research group of any competency that would waste time doing such an experiment themselves.
    Anyway, I would try to find a lab who can make this experiment for me. May be this hypotheses is not very interesting for them. However, the money what I would pay them will support and help for their other researches.[/quote]

    So you are looking for a mercenary audience of incompetent physicists who are unable to find support for legitimate research but would do unnecessary experiments to discredit theories whose domain of validity is quite well known. Why would one want to employ people who would take advantage of a delusional person solely for money ?
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  11. #10 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    So you are looking for a mercenary audience of incompetent physicists who are unable to find support for legitimate research but would do unnecessary experiments to discredit theories whose domain of validity is quite well known. Why would one want to employ people who would take advantage of a delusional person solely for money ?
    I'm looking for group who can do own job perfectly. I'm interesting about one experiment which could be possible produce in lab. Good science report with result of this experiment will prove or disapprove modern physics motion.

    Could you do this? Or you just do skeptics posts on this forum?
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  12. #11 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    Could you do this? Or you just do skeptics posts on this forum?
    No one can say whether or not they could perform your experiment, as you have not described the experiment.

    But I know enough about mechanics to be able to state unequivocally that there is no possible experiment that has not yet been performed that would discredit classical mechanics within its known domain of validity. I can also tell you that experiments that demonstrate that the domain of validity does not extend to the realm of the very small, the very fast, or high gravitational fields have also been performed and those experiments support quantum mechanics and the theory of relativity.

    Many people can perform experiments dealing with classical mechanics. Such experiments are quite common in freshman physics labs. The results are quite well known -- apparently to nearly everyone except you.
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  13. #12 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    No one can say whether or not they could perform your experiment, as you have not described the experiment.
    The experiment is very simple.
    Ideally, two objects aligned differently from repulsive point. One of them will conduct translational motion. Another object will conduct rotational and translational motion. The result of experiment is measure horizontal velocities of these objects from repulsive point and calculate their translational momentums.
    Base on modern classical mechanics these momentums must have same value with opposite directions.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    But I know enough about mechanics to be able to state unequivocally that there is no possible experiment that has not yet been performed that would discredit classical mechanics within its known domain of validity. I can also tell you that experiments that demonstrate that the domain of validity does not extend to the realm of the very small, the very fast, or high gravitational fields have also been performed and those experiments support quantum mechanics and the theory of relativity.
    How you could talk about the experiment if it was not described yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Many people can perform experiments dealing with classical mechanics. Such experiments are quite common in freshman physics labs. The results are quite well known -- apparently to nearly everyone except you.
    I understand physic as serious science. Therefore, any physics theories must be confirmed by experiment.
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  14. #13 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    No one can say whether or not they could perform your experiment, as you have not described the experiment.
    The experiment is very simple.
    Ideally, two objects aligned differently from repulsive point. One of them will conduct translational motion. Another object will conduct rotational and translational motion. The result of experiment is measure horizontal velocities of these objects from repulsive point and calculate their translational momentums.
    Base on modern classical mechanics these momentums must have same value with opposite directions.
    I am not quite sure what you mean by a "repulsive point" and it is pretty clear that you are not either. There are a couple of possibilities and the results of the experiment are completely predictable in any case. However there is no meaning to "alligned differently from repulsive point" or in fact from any point. You need to learn some basic geometry.

    1) If the force that is applied to the two objects results from a force between the two bodies, equal and opposite according to Newton's second law, then indeed the translational momentums of the two bodies will be equal and opposite.

    2) If the force somehow emanates from the "repulsive point" and is not equal and opposite on the two bodies then the momentums will not be equal and opposite. The momentums in this case will depend on the repelling force.

    This is elementary Newtonian mechanics and there is already a mountain of expereimental data supporting it. No new experiment is needed or can be justified. This is elementary freshman level physics.


    [quote="ABV"]
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    ]But I know enough about mechanics to be able to state unequivocally that there is no possible experiment that has not yet been performed that would discredit classical mechanics within its known domain of validity. I can also tell you that experiments that demonstrate that the domain of validity does not extend to the realm of the very small, the very fast, or high gravitational fields have also been performed and those experiments support quantum mechanics and the theory of relativity.
    How you could talk about the experiment if it was not described yet?[=/quote]

    It did not talk about the experiment. I talked about THE NEED FOR such an experiment and the POSSIBLE OUTCOME of such an experiment.

    I can easily talk about that because I understand classical mechanics. It is a throoughly understood subject and has been for a couple of centuries. There is a mountain of data that supports it, including the entire space program.

    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    ]Many people can perform experiments dealing with classical mechanics. Such experiments are quite common in freshman physics labs. The results are quite well known -- apparently to nearly everyone except you.
    I understand physic as serious science. Therefore, any physics theories must be confirmed by experiment.
    Yep. And classical mechanics has been confirmed by literally millions of experiments, from laboratory experiments performed by professional physicists to freshman laboratories to nearly every ongoing engineering project that has ever been undertaken by humankind.

    Physics is indeed serious science. But it is abundantly clear that you do not understand it. The problem that you describe is extremely elementary and completely understood, and has been for a couple of centuries. `
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  15. #14 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Yep. And classical mechanics has been confirmed by literally millions of experiments, from laboratory experiments performed by professional physicists to freshman laboratories to nearly every ongoing engineering project that has ever been undertaken by humankind.

    Physics is indeed serious science. But it is abundantly clear that you do not understand it. The problem that you describe is extremely elementary and completely understood, and has been for a couple of centuries. `
    Whatever you say, I'd like to buy an experiment with good scientific report. Your imagination is good. However the experiment must confirm the modern classical mechanics motion concept. I'd like to see it.
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  16. #15 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    Whatever you say, I'd like to buy an experiment with good scientific report. Your imagination is good. However the experiment must confirm the modern classical mechanics motion concept. I'd like to see it.
    Then why not just go do the experiment yourself.
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  17. #16 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Then why not just go do the experiment yourself.
    I did. Please look on my site.
    http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-...l-mechanics-2#
    The velocities difference about 25%.
    Unfortunately, I don't have a special equipment for good measurement. I would like involve research group for that who would produce similar experiment with good scientific research document.
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    And here is another idealized experiment (assuming sliding, inside the slot, is frictionless). I took this document from another forum.
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  19. #18 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Then why not just go do the experiment yourself.
    I did. Please look on my site.
    http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-...l-mechanics-2#
    The velocities difference about 25%.
    Unfortunately, I don't have a special equipment for good measurement. I would like involve research group for that who would produce similar experiment with good scientific research document.
    You blew it.

    If the forces involved were directed through the centers of gravity there would be no rotation of the bodies about that poiint. If not, part of the energy goes into rotational motion and the linear momenta will not be equal and opposite.

    There is no mystery here, only your misunderstanding of mechanics.
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  20. #19 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket

    You blew it.

    If the forces involved were directed through the centers of gravity there would be no rotation of the bodies about that poiint. If not, part of the energy goes into rotational motion and the linear momenta will not be equal and opposite.

    There is no mystery here, only your misunderstanding of mechanics.
    At initial point the rotating objects has one net force which split to one force for translational movement and another force for rotational movement through it's own center of mass. At initial time both forces have same direction.
    The object is rotating. I need a lab which can produce similar experiment more precisely. 25% velocities value difference is enough to continue research of this idea.
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  21. #20 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket

    You blew it.

    If the forces involved were directed through the centers of gravity there would be no rotation of the bodies about that poiint. If not, part of the energy goes into rotational motion and the linear momenta will not be equal and opposite.

    There is no mystery here, only your misunderstanding of mechanics.
    At initial point the rotating objects has one net force which split to one force for translational movement and another force for rotational movement through it's own center of mass. At initial time both forces have same direction.
    The object is rotating. I need a lab which can produce similar experiment more precisely. 25% velocities value difference is enough to continue research of this idea.
    What you really need is to learn some basic physics. No legitimate research laboratory will waste its time on such nonsense. They have far more important and potentially productive thiings to do.
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  22. #21 Re: I'm Looking For Special Research Group 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    What you really need is to learn some basic physics. No legitimate research laboratory will waste its time on such nonsense. They have far more important and potentially productive thiings to do.
    Dear DrRocket, I know basic physic. I think, for this experiment the modern physic divide one event to independent events with two independent equations. I think this is not quite right for this case, because it's losing meaning of solid rotational and translational motion. I would like to see how modern classical mechanics description correlates with natural phenomenon. I would like to get sponsorship on that. I hope some research groups would be interested in that.
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    Where you went wrong was when you compared the angular momentum of each rod about its own center of mass. If you want to compare them and use conservation of angular momentum, you must use the same axis of rotation. The rod that is not rotating can still have angular momentum with respect to the axis about which the spinning rod is rotating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Where you went wrong was when you compared the angular momentum of each rod about its own center of mass. If you want to compare them and use conservation of angular momentum, you must use the same axis of rotation. The rod that is not rotating can still have angular momentum with respect to the axis about which the spinning rod is rotating.
    You mean the position of center of mass of non rotating rod is changing relatively to rotating rod. Yes, but is it correct count this drift as compensation angular momentum? This rod by itself has translation motion only. On the other site, the momentum for non rotated rod must be equal the sum of momentum and angular momentum divided to unit radius of rotated rod. This would be a full law of momentum conservation for this repulsive action. I know, modern physic denies it.
    I would like to test it by experiment. I did my own which you can see on my site, but it's has a lot of side effects factors which not allow to see behavior precisely. Need another experiment with good lab environment. Is anyone can help with this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    You mean the position of center of mass of non rotating rod is changing relatively to rotating rod. Yes, but is it correct count this drift as compensation angular momentum? This rod by itself has translation motion only.
    Yes. Angular momentum can be defined for a particle, a system of particles, or a rigid body. It is always taken relative to some point of origin. The angular momentum of a particle or system of particles is not a fixed number, but changes depending on the point of origin chosen.
    On the other site, the momentum for non rotated rod must be equal the sum of momentum and angular momentum divided to unit radius of rotated rod. This would be a full law of momentum conservation for this repulsive action. I know, modern physic denies it.
    I would like to test it by experiment. I did my own which you can see on my site, but it's has a lot of side effects factors which not allow to see behavior precisely. Need another experiment with good lab environment. Is anyone can help with this?
    You can test it until the cows come home. If you misinterpret or do not understand what you are testing, it won't mean a thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Yes. Angular momentum can be defined for a particle, a system of particles, or a rigid body. It is always taken relative to some point of origin. The angular momentum of a particle or system of particles is not a fixed number, but changes depending on the point of origin chosen.
    Yeah, but mass asymmetrically is moving away from the rotating mass. I mean into one direction from center of mass another rotated rod.
    This equation shows how same momentum for rod with translational motion is using for both equations with different frame of reference. How is it possible spend same value of momentum for both cases? Sum(Net) of these both cases should be a momentum for rod with translational motion only. Mathematically, for one event, sum of these equations will describe a full motion. However, this operation violates by physics, because these equations use different frames of reference. The modern physics use same value of momentum for both cases of motion, which is double value of momentum for rod with translational motion only.





    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    You can test it until the cows come home. If you misinterpret or do not understand what you are testing, it won't mean a thing.
    May be you're right. However the physics is science about natural phenomenon. We may thousand times imagine and predict result of experiment. However the truth is locating into natural experiment results only. I respect your knowledge of physic, but I would like to see it on experiment results.
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  27. #26  
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    This could be used for new experiment
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    One more thing to defend my hypotheses about single main rotational and translational motion.
    The law of momentum conservation works well for both motions as translational and rotational. But how about case when body conducts rotational and translational motion together. Let imagine case where body with rotational with velocity W and translational with velocity V motion collide with wall by it's on center of mass. What will happen? Base on modern motion concept all translational and translational momentums body will transfer to the wall separately from each other. This is correct, because center mass collision point of body will have normal velocity V relativity to the wall. But how about case where collision of body will be away from it's own center of mass? The velocity of collision point will be V + W*R relativity to the wall. In this case the translational momentum of body cannot be count as simple formula mV. because velocity is different.
    On my site I described hypotheses about main single rotational and translational motion with it's own law of momentum conservation.
    http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-...l-mechanics-2#
    Please read it.
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  29. #28 ideal conditions vs practical aplication 
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    Bigest problem i see with you fighting with these morons is what your talking about is a actualy experment based on the facts of reality and there talking about ideal circumstance wich you can never get even in the best labs and is the base of even elemtry physics. Side note once measured in reality vs what theroitcly should happen in almost every science we find reality lacking cause theres almost always some unexplanible force messing with the results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    One more thing to defend my hypotheses about single main rotational and translational motion.
    The law of momentum conservation works well for both motions as translational and rotational. But how about case when body conducts rotational and translational motion together. Let imagine case where body with rotational with velocity W and translational with velocity V motion collide with wall by it's on center of mass. What will happen? Base on modern motion concept all translational and translational momentums body will transfer to the wall separately from each other. This is correct, because center mass collision point of body will have normal velocity V relativity to the wall. But how about case where collision of body will be away from it's own center of mass? The velocity of collision point will be V + W*R relativity to the wall. In this case the translational momentum of body cannot be count as simple formula mV. because velocity is different.
    On my site I described hypotheses about main single rotational and translational motion with it's own law of momentum conservation.
    http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-...l-mechanics-2#
    Please read it.
    A wall is rigidly attached to planet earth. The linear and angular momenta lost by a turning projectile (for example a bicycle wheel) are gained by earth.
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  31. #30 Re: ideal conditions vs practical aplication 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikees clone
    Bigest problem i see with you fighting with these morons is what your talking about is a actualy experment based on the facts of reality and there talking about ideal circumstance wich you can never get even in the best labs and is the base of even elemtry physics. Side note once measured in reality vs what theroitcly should happen in almost every science we find reality lacking cause theres almost always some unexplanible force messing with the results.
    I made some analysis for my experiment and made model for rolling bodies. This model shows the rolling bodies will have different translational velocities.
    Please take a look.
    http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-...l-mechanics-2#
    Thank you
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  32. #31 2 rolling bodies on surface and spring between them. 
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    If take 2 rolling bodies on surface and spring between them.
    http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-...l-mechanics-2#
    These objects with same mass and radius and different moment of inertia through the spring are repulsing on surface. Base on kinematics equations, these objects will take a different translational velocities relatively to repulsing point. However surface wont take any movements during repulsing action, because these rolling bodies share same spring. What is wrong? The law of momentum conservation wasn't discovered for rotational and translational motion of physics kinematic calculation should get correction?
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  33. #32  
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    ABV, several of our users have tried to engage with you but you've failed to really appreciate their advice. Moving to pseudo.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBiologista
    ABV, several of our users have tried to engage with you but you've failed to really appreciate their advice. Moving to pseudo.
    I'll accept your advice if you'll find mistakes in my kinematic equations for rolling bodies on surface. I hope you have enough knowledge to do it.
    Have a fun
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBiologista
    ABV, several of our users have tried to engage with you but you've failed to really appreciate their advice. Moving to pseudo.
    I'll accept your advice if you'll find mistakes in my kinematic equations for rolling bodies on surface. I hope you have enough knowledge to do it.
    Have a fun
    I am not obliged to do any such thing. However, if you actually wish to invite discussion, listening to what people have to say is essential. That's not a rule, it's just life.
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBiologista
    I am not obliged to do any such thing. However, if you actually wish to invite discussion, listening to what people have to say is essential. That's not a rule, it's just life.
    I'm always listening people. However, not to many people say a good things. Usually deny everything new without comments. This is a life. The wrong assumption is not bad thing. It's fixable. Just idiots don't do mistakes. The bad thing is repeating mistakes all the time without understanding the problem, because it's easy and it was used before. Unfortunately, this is unfixable.
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  37. #36  
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    Ok. Back to model for rolling bodies.
    This model is not equivalent to experiment on my site, because rolling bodies contact to surface all the time and both have a rotation. The rolling body with higher moment of inertial will have bigger reaction force to the surface. Which should be compensated by spring through surface. However the surface has it's own mass and will keep reaction forces for rolling bodies difference. Unfortunately I have to disregard my model from my site. However, I'm still working for exact model for my experiment and will publish it in a future.
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  38. #37  
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    I made new model of my experiment. This model use rolling body on surface. Please take a look.
    http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-...l-mechanics-2#
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  39. #38 The third Newton’s law and law of momentum conservation. 
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    The third Newton’s law and law of momentum conservation.

    The third Newton’s law declares what each reaction of forces should be symmetrical.
    -F=F
    where: F - reaction forces of objects

    The consequence of this is law of momentum conservation.
    -Fdt=Fdt
    -mv=mv
    -P=P

    where: F - reaction forces of objects, m - mass of objects, v - velocity of objects, dt - time trame of action, P - momentums of objects.

    This consequence should be used for case where objects induce same identical motions and this does not cover the case where objects induce different type of motions. In experiment 2 thin cylinders induce different type of motions and this simple consequence should not cover this objects repulcing action. Therefore, for correct explanation of experiment 2 needs to use prime third Newton’s law and identify all reaction forces by this law. The consequence law of momentum conservation where objects have symmetrical behavior should not be used for this objects repulsing case.
    Another interesting point is a symmetrical angular momentum. During repulsing action just one object has an angular momentum. Base on law of momentum conservation the isolated system should have the symmetrical angular momentum. However no any other physical objects have it. Base on modern classical mechanic, this symmetrical angular momentum is exist potentially if calculated distance between center mass of isolated system and center of mass of objects. But here both objects induce together this symmetrical angular momentum from theirs translational momentums cancel and their linear kinetic energies conversion to rotational kinetic energy. But where is another energy which came form symmetrical repulsing action for angular momentums when symmetrical forces repulse objects?


    Or, if repulse two objects symmetrically away from theirs center of mass then both objects will have same linear momentums and same angular momentums.
    However, another unpaired potential asymmetrical angular momentum is exist between center of mass of isolated system and objects center of mass during their linear momentum cancel. This could be explained by same sentence. The consequence law of momentum conservation where objects have symmetrical behavior should not be used for this objects repulsing case.
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  40. #39 Re: The third Newton’s law and law of momentum conservation. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABV
    The third Newton’s law and law of momentum conservation.

    The third Newton’s law declares what each reaction of forces should be symmetrical.
    -F=F
    where: F - reaction forces of objects

    The consequence of this is law of momentum conservation.
    -Fdt=Fdt
    -mv=mv
    -P=P

    where: F - reaction forces of objects, m - mass of objects, v - velocity of objects, dt - time trame of action, P - momentums of objects.

    This consequence should be used for case where objects induce same identical motions and this does not cover the case where objects induce different type of motions. In experiment 2 thin cylinders induce different type of motions and this simple consequence should not cover this objects repulcing action. Therefore, for correct explanation of experiment 2 needs to use prime third Newton’s law and identify all reaction forces by this law. The consequence law of momentum conservation where objects have symmetrical behavior should not be used for this objects repulsing case.
    Another interesting point is a symmetrical angular momentum. During repulsing action just one object has an angular momentum. Base on law of momentum conservation the isolated system should have the symmetrical angular momentum. However no any other physical objects have it. Base on modern classical mechanic, this symmetrical angular momentum is exist potentially if calculated distance between center mass of isolated system and center of mass of objects. But here both objects induce together this symmetrical angular momentum from theirs translational momentums cancel and their linear kinetic energies conversion to rotational kinetic energy. But where is another energy which came form symmetrical repulsing action for angular momentums when symmetrical forces repulse objects?


    Or, if repulse two objects symmetrically away from theirs center of mass then both objects will have same linear momentums and same angular momentums.
    However, another unpaired potential asymmetrical angular momentum is exist between center of mass of isolated system and objects center of mass during their linear momentum cancel. This could be explained by same sentence. The consequence law of momentum conservation where objects have symmetrical behavior should not be used for this objects repulsing case.
    This is complete bullshit.
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  41. #40  
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    I see
    You have a good argue. This is correct. If objects have symmetrical actions then the consequence from third Newton's law works always. However, the consequence form third Newton's law where objects have asymmetrical behavior must be confirmed by experiment.
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  42. #41  
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    http://knol.google.com/k/paradox-of-...l-mechanics-2#
    For example, the rotated object gets more kinetic energy on experiment 2 rather than this non rotated object on experiment 1. It means, for this rotated object, like on experiment 1 one force is conducting work for translational motion only and another force(torque) is conducting work for rotational motion only. Base on third Newton’s law, these forces must have symmetrical reaction forces. These symmetrical reaction forces are applying to other non rotated object which conducts translational motion only. Unfortunately, the modern classical mechanics use trivial consequence from third Newton’s law where objects have symmetrical behavior. Base on this model, look through center of mass of isolated system these two objects are getting symmetrical linear and angular momentums with symmetrical behavior on repulsing action. However, different objects alignment brings asymmetrical behavior of these objects. The non rotated object does not conduct rotational motion around center of mass of isolated system. Therefore, these objects asymmetrical behavior cannot be described by trivial consequence of third Newton’s law.
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