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Thread: The Hollow Earth: Fact or Fiction?

  1. #1 The Hollow Earth: Fact or Fiction? 
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    Admiral Richard E. Byrd of the United States Navy flew to the North Pole in 1926 and over the South Pole in 1929. he referred to Antarctica as "The Land of Everlasting Mystery". In reference to the North Pole he wrote: "I'd like to see that land beyond the North Pole, it is the Center of the Great Unknown."

    In his diary, Byrd allegedly tells of entering the hollow interior of the earth, along with others and traveling 17 miles over mountains, lakes, rivers, green vegetation, and animal life. He tells of seeing tremendous animals resembling the mammoths of antiquity moving through the brush. He eventually found cities and a thriving civilization. The external temperature was 74 degrees F.

    His airplane was greeted by flying machines of a type he had never seen before. They escorted him to a safe landing area where he was graciously greeted by emissaries from Agartha. After resting, he and his crew, were taken to meet the king and queen of Agartha. They told him that he had been allowed to enter Agartha because of his high moral and ethical character. They went on to say that they worried about the safety of planet due to he bombs and other testing done above the surface by governments. After the visit Byrd and his crew were guided back to the surface of the planet.

    Byrd stated that the North and South Poles are only two of many openings into the center of the Earth. He also wrote about seeing a sun below the Earth.

    BUT....

    According to the theory, the Earth’s surface has two sides. The outside ( where we live ), and the inner side ( home of 12 tribes from which 6 use to live on the outer side and even a few alien species are mentioned. They say the Earth in between is 800 km thick.

    Massive objects tend to clump together gravitationally, creating non-hollow spherical objects we call stars and planets. The solid sphere is the best way in which to minimize the gravitational potential energy of a physical object; having hollowness is therefore unfavorable in the energetic sense. In addition, ordinary matter is not strong enough to support a hollow shape of planetary size against the force of gravity.

    Someone on the inside of a hollow Earth would not experience an outward pull and could not stand on the inner surface; rather, the theory of gravity implies that a person on the inside would be nearly weightless. This was first shown by Newton, whose shell theorem mathematically predicts a gravitational force (from the shell) of zero everywhere inside a spherically symmetric hollow shell of matter, regardless of the shell's thickness.

    A tiny gravitational force would arise from the fact that the Earth does not have a perfectly symmetrical spherical shape, as well as forces from other bodies such as the Moon. The centrifugal force from the Earth's rotation would pull a person (on the inner surface) outwards if the person was traveling at the same velocity as the Earth's interior and was in contact with the ground on the interior, but even at the equator this is only 1/300 of ordinary Earth gravity.

    The mass of the planet also indicates that the hollow Earth hypothesis is unfeasible. Should the Earth be largely hollow, its mass would be much lower and thus its gravity on the outer surface would be much lower than it currently is.


    But because our understanding of gravity could be wrong and I'm not sure I'm ready to call Admiral Byrd a liar.

    Tell me what you think!!!!


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  3. #2  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    if the earth is hollow where does magma and lava come from?


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  4. #3 Re: The Hollow Earth: Fact or Fiction? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    But because our understanding of gravity could be wrong and I'm not sure I'm ready to call Admiral Byrd a liar.
    How about deluded?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    if the earth is hollow where does magma and lava come from?
    Lesson #1: The Earth is NOT a ball of molten lava. The first question everyone asks me when they hear of the Hollow Planet idea is: "Where does lava come from then?" The (completely FALSE) impression schools have created in everyone's minds is that the Earth is this red-hot ball of lava. They then imagine that lava from volcanoes comes from the centre of the Earth. Ask any geologist or seismologist if this is true and you will discover they disagree. Standard geology and seismology texts tell a different story. Scientists know that most lava is slightly radioactive and they believe it is produced either by decaying radium (decayed uranium) or through stresses in the crust. Lava is created by heat generated within the crust of the Earth. The crust is said to be no more than 20 miles thick, although to be honest nobody has ever actually penetrated the crust so we really do not know what (if anything different) lies beneath it. Scientists will tell you that lava is a crustal phenomenon and all lava comes from no deeper than 20 miles down.

    If the Earth were an "ocean of molten lava" then it would actually be subject to tidal pressures and the continents would be broken to pieces as the earth rotated. Scientists say the Earth is actually composed of solid rock for the most part. As you go deeper, the pressures are supposed to be so great that the rock actually flows from extreme pressure. (As you will see, even this may not be really true). But nowhere in modern geology or seismology will you see them saying the Earth is a ball of molten lava.

    In fact, the final proof comes from seismology itself. When an earthquake occurs, seismic waves travel out in all directions throughout all the earth. There are two types of seismic waves: P and S. Based on this, scientists know that all of the earth is actually quite RIGID and composed only of rock. The only partial exception is the Outer core. Take a look the seismic diagram below. If the earth were truly molten, then seismic waves would be considerably dampened down. So the fact that seismic waves can travel through and around the earth shows that it is mostly completely rigid and solid.

    In the above seismic diagram (from a text book on seismology), D=Mantle, E=Outer core, G=Inner core.
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  6. #5  
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    Hollow Earth is an idea that is pure poppycock. One might be excused for believing in such fantasy if one were a child of the 19th or very early 20th century, but anyone born after the 1950s should be ashamed of their poor school attendance as a child if they believe in such fantasy today.

    From the Skeptic's Dictionary:

    In the early 19th century, an eccentric veteran of the war of 1812, John Symmes (d. 1829), promoted the idea of interior concentric spheres so widely that the alleged opening to the inner world was named "Symmes Hole."* In Hamilton, Ohio, his son erected a monument with a stone model of the hollow earth to commemorate his dad's incessant lobbying for an expedition to the North Pole to find the entrance to the world below. Martin Gardner writes that "It took Byrd's flight over the North Pole to deal a death blow to 'Symmes' hole' "(Gardner 1957: 41). However, later advocates hail Admiral Byrd as having actually gone into the hollow earth at both poles! This strange belief seems to be based on nothing more than the fact that Byrd referred to Antarctica as "The Land of Everlasting Mystery" and once wrote: "I'd like to see that land beyond the (North) Pole. That area beyond the Pole is the Center of the Great Unknown." Such evidence apparently suffices for the alternative scientist.
    There is no Byrd diary that includes an account of "hollow earth." Modern proponents of hollow earth draw all their motivation from the bolded passage above. Byrd wasn't deluded. He was misquoted.
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  7. #6 Re: The Hollow Earth: Fact or Fiction? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    But because our understanding of gravity could be wrong and I'm not sure I'm ready to call Admiral Byrd a liar.
    How about deluded?
    Perhaps....it's possible that it was all an delusion created within his own mind. However, it's definitely not a question of his status as a pioneering American aviator, polar explorer, and organizer of polar logistics. Byrd claimed that his expeditions had been the first to reach the North Pole and the South Pole by air. His South Pole claim is generally supported by a consensus of those who have examined the evidence. It's based on that reputation and distinguised career that I loo at Byrd's Diary dated February - March 1947 giving the details of his experience. The exploration flight over the North Pole. It reads as follows:


    I must write this diary in secrecy and obscurity. It concerns my Arctic flight of the nineteenth day of February in the year of Nineteen and Forty-Seven.

    There comes a time when the rationality of men must fade into insignificance and one must accept the inevitability of the Truth! I am not at liberty to disclose the following documentation at this writing ...perhaps it shall never see the light of public scrutiny, but I must do my duty and record here for all to read one day. In a world of greed and exploitation of certain of mankind can no longer suppress that which is truth.


    Flight Log: Base Camp Arctic, 2/19/1947

    0600 Hours - All preparations are complete for our flight northward and we are airborne with full fuel tanks at 0610 Hours.

    0620 Hours - fuel mixture on starboard engine seems too rich, adjustment made and Pratt Whittneys are running smoothly.

    0730 Hours - Radio Check with base camp. All is well and radio reception is normal.

    0740 Hours - Note slight oil leak in starboard engine, oil pressure indicator seems normal, however.

    0800 Hours - Slight turbulence noted from easterly direction at altitude of 2321 feet, correction to 1700 feet, no further turbulence, but tail wind increases, slight adjustment in throttle controls, aircraft performing very well now.

    0815 Hours- Radio Check with base camp, situation normal.

    0830 Hours - Turbulence encountered again, increase altitude to 2900 feet, smooth flight conditions again.

    0910 Hours - Vast Ice and snow below, note coloration of yellowish nature, and disperse in a linear pattern. Altering course for a better examination of this color pattern below, note reddish or purple color also. Circle this area two full turns and return to assigned compass heading. Position check made again to Base Camp, and relay information concerning colorations in the Ice and snow below.

    0910 Hours - Both Magnetic and Gyro compasses beginning to gyrate and wobble, we are unable to hold our heading by instrumentation. Take bearing with Sun compass, yet all seems well. The controls are seemingly slow to respond and have sluggish quality, but there is no indication of Icing!

    0915 Hours - In the distance is what appears to be mountains.

    0949 Hours - 29 minutes elapsed flight time from the first sighting of the mountains, it is no illusion. They are mountains and consisting of a small range that I have never seen before!

    0955 Hours - Altitude change to 2950 feet, encountering strong turbulence again.

    1000 Hours - We are crossing over the small mountain range and still proceeding northward as best as can be ascertained. Beyond the mountain range is what appears to be a valley with a small river or stream running through the center portion. There should be no green valley below! Something is definitely wrong and abnormal here! We should be over Ice and Snow! To the portside are great forests growing on the mountain slopes. Our navigation Instruments are still spinning, the gyroscope is oscillating back and forth!

    1005 Hours - I alter altitude to 1400 feet and execute a sharp left turn to better examine the valley below. It is green with either moss or a type of tight-knit grass. The Light here seems different. I cannot see the Sun anymore. We make another left turn and we spot what seems to be a large animal of some kind below us. It appears to be an elephant! NO!!! It looks more like a mammoth! This is incredible! Yet, there it is! Decrease altitude to 1000 feet and take binoculars to better examine the animal. It is confirmed - it is definitely a mammoth-like animal! Report this to Base Camp.

    1030 Hours - Encountering more rolling green hills now. The external temperature indicator reads 74 degrees Fahrenheit! Continuing on our heading now. Navigation instruments seem normal now. I am puzzled over their actions. Attempt to contact Base Camp. Radio is not functioning!

    1130 Hours - Countryside below is more level and normal (if I may use that word). Ahead we spot what seems to be a city!!!! This is impossible! Aircraft seems light and oddly buoyant. The controls refuse to respond!! My GOD!!! Off our port and starboard wings are a strange type of aircraft. They are closing rapidly alongside! They are disc-shaped and have a radiant quality to them.
    They are close enough now to see the markings on them. It is a type of Swastika!!! This is fantastic. Where are we! What has happened. I tug at the controls again. They will not respond!!!! We are caught in an invisible vice grip of some type!

    1135 Hours - Our radio crackles and a voice comes through in English with what perhaps is a slight Nordic or Germanic accent! The message is: 'Welcome, Admiral, to our Domain. We shall land you in exactly seven minutes! Relax, Admiral, you are in good hands.' I note the engines of our plane have stopped running! The aircraft is under some strange control and is now turning itself. The controls are useless.

    1140 Hours - Another radio message received. We begin the landing process now, and in moments the plane shudders slightly, and begins a descent as though caught in some great unseen elevator! The downward motion is negligible, and we touch down with only a slight jolt!

    1145 Hours - I am making a hasty last entry in the Flight Log. Several men are approaching on foot toward our aircraft. They are tall with blond hair. In the distance is a large shimmering city pulsating with rainbow hues of color. I do not know what is going to happen now, but I see no signs of weapons on those approaching. I hear now a voice ordering me by name to open the cargo door. I comply.

    End Log

    From this point I write all the following events here from memory. It defies the imagination and would seem all but madness if it had not happened. The radioman and I are taken from the aircraft and we are received in a most cordial manner. We were then boarded on a small platform-like conveyance with no wheels! It moves us toward the glowing city with great swiftness. As we approach, the city seems to be made of a crystal material. Soon we arrive at a large building that is a type I have never seen before. It appears to be right out of the design board of Frank Lloyd Wright, or perhaps more correctly, out of a Buck Rogers setting!! We are given some type of warm beverage which tasted like nothing I have ever savored before. It is delicious.

    After about ten minutes, two of our wondrous appearing Hosts come to our quarters and announce that I am to accompany them. I have no choice but to comply. I leave my Radioman behind and we walk a short distance and enter into what seems to be an elevator. We descend downward for some moments, the machine stops, and the door lifts silently upward! We then proceed down a long hallway that is lit by a rose-colored light that seems to be emanating from the very walls themselves!

    One of the beings motions for us to stop before a great door. Over the door is an inscription that I cannot read. The great door slides noiselessly open and I am beckoned to enter. One of my Hosts speaks. 'Have no fear, Admiral, you are to have an audience with the Master...'

    I step inside and my eyes adjust to the beautiful coloration that seems to be filling the room completely. Then I begin to see my surroundings. What greeted my eyes is the most beautiful sight of my entire existence. It is in fact too beautiful and wondrous to describe. It is exquisite and delicate. I do not think there exists a Human term that can describe it in any detail with justice! My thoughts are interrupted in a cordial manner by a warm rich voice of melodious quality, 'I bid you welcome to our Domain, Admiral.' I see a man with delicate features and with the etching of years upon his face. He is seated at a long table. He motions me to sit down in one of the chairs. After I am seated, he places his fingertips together and smiles. He speaks softly again, and conveys the following.

    “We have let you enter here because you are of noble character and well-known on the Surface World, Admiral.”

    “Surface World?”, I half-gasp under my breath!

    “Yes,” the Master replies with a smile, “you are in the domain of the Arianni, the Inner World of the Earth. We shall not long delay your mission, and you will be safely escorted back to the surface and for a distance beyond. But now, Admiral, I shall tell you why you have been summoned here. Our interest rightly begins just after your race exploded the first atomic bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan. It was at that alarming time we sent our flying machines, the "Flugelrads", to your surface world to investigate what your race had done. That is, of course, past history now, my dear Admiral, but I must continue on. You see, we have never interfered before in your race's wars, and barbarity, but now we must, for you have learned to tamper with a certain power that is not for Man, namely, that of atomic energy. Our emissaries have already delivered messages to the powers of your world, and yet they do not heed. Now you have been chosen to be witness here that our world does exist. You see, our Culture and Science is many thousands of years beyond your race, Admiral.”

    I interrupted, “But what does this have to do with me, Sir?”

    The Master's eyes seemed to penetrate deeply into my mind, and after studying me for a few moments he replied, “Your race has now reached the point of no return, for there are those among you who would destroy your very World rather than relinquish their power as they know it...”

    I nodded, and the Master continued, “In 1945 and afterward, we tried to contact your race, but our efforts were met with hostility, our Flugelrads were fired upon. Yes, even pursued with malice and animosity by your fighter planes. So, now, I say to you, my son, there is a great storm gathering in your World, a black fury that will not spend itself for many years. There will be no answer in your Arms, there will be no safety in your Science. It may rage on until every flower of your culture is trampled, and all Human things are leveled in vast chaos. Your recent War was only a prelude of what is yet to come for your race. We here see it more clearly with each hour..do you say I am mistaken?”

    “No,” I answer, “it happened once before, the Dark Ages came and they lasted for more than five hundred years.”

    “Yes, my son,” replied the Master, “the Dark Ages that will come now for your race will cover the Earth like a pall, but I believe that some of your race will live through the storm, beyond that, I cannot say. We see at a great distance a new world stirring from the ruins of your race, seeking its lost and legendary treasures, and they will be here, my son, safe in our keeping. When that time arrives, we shall come forward again to help revive your culture and your race. Perhaps, by then, you will have learned the futility of war and its strife...and after that time, certain of your culture and science will be returned for your race to begin anew. You, my son, are to return to the Surface World with this message.....”

    With these closing words, our meeting seemed at an end. I stood for a moment as in a deam....but, yet, I knew this was reality, and for some strange reason I bowed slightly, either out of respect or humility, I do not know which.

    Suddenly, I was again aware that the two beautiful Hosts who had brought me here were again at my side. “This way, Admiral,” motioned one. I turned once more before leaving and looked back toward the Master. A gentle smile was etched on his delicate and ancient face. 'Farewell, my son,' he spoke, then he gestured with a lovely, slender hand a motion of peace and our meeting was truly ended.

    Quickly, we walked back through the great door of the Master's chamber and once again entered into the elevator. The door slid silently downward and we were at once going upward. One of my hosts spoke again, “We must now make haste, Admiral, as the Master desires to delay you no longer on your scheduled timetable and you must return with his message to your race.”

    I said nothing. All of this was almost beyond belief, and once again my thoughts were interrupted as we stopped. I entered the room and was again with my Radioman. He had an anxious expression on his face. As I approached, I said, “It is all right, Howie, it is all right.”

    The two beings motioned us toward the awaiting conveyance, we boarded, and soon arrived back at the aircraft. The engines were idling and we boarded immediately. The whole atmosphere seemed charged now with a certain air of urgency. After the cargo door was closed the aircraft was immediately lifted by that unseen force until we reached an altitude of 2700 feet. Two of the aircraft were alongside for some distance guiding us on our return way. I must state here, the airspeed indicator registered no reading, yet we were moving along at a very rapid rate.

    215 Hours - A radio message comes through. “We are leaving you now, Admiral, your controls are free. Auf Wiedersehen!!!!”

    We watched for a moment as the flugelrads disappeared into the pale blue sky. The aircraft suddenly felt as though caught in a sharp downdraft for a moment. We quickly recovered her control. We do not speak for some time, each man has his thoughts....

    Entry in Flight Log continues:

    220 Hours - We are again over vast areas of ice and snow, and approximately 27 minutes from Base Camp. We radio them, they respond. We report all conditions normal....normal. Base Camp expresses relief at our re-established contact.

    300 Hours - We land smoothly at Base Camp. I have a mission.....

    End Log Entries:

    March 11, 1947. I have just attended a Staff Meeting at the Pentagon. I have stated fully my discovery and the message from the Master. All is duly recorded. The President has been advised. I am now detained for several hours (six hours, thirty- nine minutes, to be exact.) I am interviewed intently by Top Security Forces and a medical team. It was an ordeal!!!! I am placed under strict control via the National Security provisions of this United States of America. I am ORDERED TO REMAIN SILENT IN REGARD TO ALL THAT I HAVE LEARNED, ON THE BEHALF OF HUMANITY!!! Incredible! I am reminded that I am a Military Man and I must obey orders.

    30/12/56: Final Entry:

    These last few years elapsed since 1947 have not been kind...I now make my final entry in this singular diary. In closing, I must state that I have faithfully kept this matter secret as directed all these years. It has been completely against my values of moral right. Now, I seem to sense the long night coming on and this secret will not die with me, but as all truth shall, it will triumph and so it shall.

    This can be the only hope for Mankind. I have seen the truth and it has quickened my spirit and has set me free! I have done my duty toward the monstrous military industrial complex. Now, the long night begins to approach, but there shall be no end. Just as the long night of the Arctic ends, the brilliant sunshine of Truth shall come again....and those who are of darkness shall fall in it's Light. FOR I HAVE SEEN THAT LAND BEYOND THE POLE, THAT CENTER OF THE GREAT UNKNOWN.

    Admiral Richard E. Byrd
    United States Navy
    24 December 1956
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  8. #7  
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    Lesson #2: Traditional Hollow Earth ideas fail the "seismology test". Let me show you why scientists simply laugh at the idea of a Hollow Planet. Keep in mind that all Hollow Earthers have, for more than a century, been saying that the Earth's crust is 800-1000 miles thick. Note in the above diagram, that seismic waves travel from the source of an earthquake (on the left) through the Earth at various angles and therefore reach the other side (this is not true of all seismic waves, but of the main ones, referred to as "P" waves). If you were to propose that a planet only has a crust of 1,000 miles or less, then this is why a scientist would laugh at you. See the image below.


    In the above diagram you can see the seismic ray paths (red lines) moving away from an earthquake source. Note how the huge cavity in this "traditional" hollow earth model would block out all the "P" waves from reaching the other side of the Earth. So clearly, this type of approach does not fit the known scientific facts and so we must discard it.

    Lesson #3: Is there any Hollow Earth seismic model which allows waves to go around the Earth? The obvious problem posed by the theory is that seismic waves actually reach right across to the other side of the Earth. Scientists are therefore quite confident that the P waves must have passed through the core of the Earth and this tells them that there cannot be a cavity.

    When I did my feasibility study (which is what my book is), I looked at the problem from every conceivable angle to see if there was any Hollow Earth model which made seismic sense. I found only one - I repeat - only one, which has any merits. All other Hollow Earth seismic models are failures. Take a look at it below.


    In the above model, I simply used the Earth's structure as scientists define it now. I replaced the Outer core with a cavity (I'll explain why later - because there is a sound reason for it). But the thing I changed was the structure of the Mantle. I wondered what would happen if density within a sphere did not increase uniformly as has been assumed. What if density actually DECREASES from a certain point onwards? You will notice all solid-earth seismology shows ray paths curving in a "U" back to the surface of the Earth. That is because density and pressure increases as you go deeper. But if, for some reason, density were to suddenly decrease, then the waves would curve in the opposite direction! I realised this, and you can see what then happens. In the middle of the Mantle, where density suddenly decreases, it causes seismic waves to travel around the cavity - right to the other side of the Earth!

    You would be excused for believing that the waves might have passed through the core of the Earth when in fact nothing of the kind happened.

    Lesson #4: The Mystery of the "Shadow Zone."
    The next problem in global seismology is explaining the mysterious "Shadow Zone". There is a lack of P waves between 103o-144o from the epicentre of a quake. Take a look at the problem as seen from a university-level text-book on seismology.


    Note how the P waves strike the Outer core and scientists believe the refraction caused by this sudden change in density can explain the shadow. But notice, in this university-level text book how they are befuddled because there are still some waves which reach the shadow zone (dotted line). They are at a complete loss to explain this. Now let me explain to you how perfectly my Hollow Earth model solves this problem. Take a look at the image below.


    After changing some parameters in my Hollow Planet seismic model, I have a "Shadow Zone" which matches the facts exactly! I made the cavity smaller, and I moved the "point of maximum density" (the dark circle in the Mantle) somewhat lower. Note: The Green area near the surface is the "Shadow Zone". Now look at the amazing thing that happens. We have P waves behaving as normal right up to 103o. Then suddenly there are very few of them inside the Shadow Zone and then after the Shadow Zone we are a greater and greater number of ray paths eventually converging on the other side of the Earth! This is exactly consistent with the known facts of global seismology!

    Sometimes small things can make a huge difference. It is obvious from the Hollow Planet diagram why there would be a Shadow Zone. This is caused by the gradual change from "increasing density" to "decreasing density." This causes the waves to "split" - some to go down while others go up. So there has to then be an area on the surface which receives less seismic waves than normal - hence the "Shadow Zone." A really crucial point is that the "Shadow Zone" is not completely devoid of waves. In the Hollow Planet model you can see why - it makes perfect sense. In the solid earth model you can see they have to stretch their imaginations (dotted lines) in order to try to find some explanation. In their diagram they believe the Shadow is cased by sharp refraction - but clearly that explanation does not quite fit the facts.

    Lesson #5: Proving, that the Outer and Inner cores - do not exist at all.
    You have been wondering why I removed the Outer Core altogether from my Hollow Planet seismic model. The answer is simple. There are two kinds of seismic waves - P waves - which are much like sound waves. They are pressure waves caused by a direct "push" through the matter. But then there are S waves - shear waves - which are like taking a piece of hose-pipe and moving it up and down rapidly. P waves can travel through everything except a vaccuum (although if they travelled through air they would be considerably weaker than when they travelled through rock or a liquid). S waves however, can only be transmitted through rigid materials - like rock. It has long been known to scientists that unlike P waves which can travel around the world - S waves are in fact "blocked" by something. They named this "something" the Outer core. They decided the Outer core had to be non-rigid. If the Outer core were a type of "liquid" then P waves could pass through it, but S waves could not. Hence they "invented" the Outer core. Very early on, when I became interested in the Hollow Earth idea, I realised this property of the Outer core, and I wondered if the Outer core was really a liquid, or if it was, in reality a cavity. My big problem however was figuring out how P waves behaved.

    Now let me show you that the Outer core does not exist at all, while the Inner core is merely the part of the Earth in the immediate vicinity of the cavity!

    Here we have a standard solid-Earth seismic model.

    The waves we are interested in are those which passed throuh the core - the PKP and PKIKP waves. When one takes a look at the data showing the speed with which seismic waves travel, one discovers an interesting thing: Waves which pass through the core (those which are supposed to be going in a straight line) actually slow down! What makes this even more curious is that P waves are supposed to speed up when they pass through dense material. And there is no place on this planet which is as dense as the Inner core! So why do P waves then slow down? According to the formula for the transmission of sound/pressure waves - speed is affected by two factors: (a) Density (b) Elasticity. This gives scientists a way of getting out of the problem by saying: "If the Density has increased, but the wave has slowed down, it must THEREFORE mean that the Elasticity increased."

    Let us return to my Hollow Planet seismic model.

    Take a look at the ray paths of the waves which reached the other side of the Earth, beyond the Shadow Zones. Look at the paths they travelled. (a) They did not travel through the core - they took a longer path around the cavity/core. (b) They were the waves which travelled near the cavity - hence near the area of lowest density! Both those factors would cause the waves to take a longer time to travel to the other side of the Earth, hence, giving the appearance that they slowed down, while apparently travelling in a more-or-less straight line!! There, once more, we find a perfect match between my Hollow Planets Seismic model and what we know about global seismology. As you can see, this explanation accounts for everything observed and yet there is no need for either an Outer or Inner core.

    Lesson #6: Amazing Seismic Speed Revelations - proving the Earth is homogenous.
    Seismologists often produce diagrams such as the one below which show the speed of seismic waves inside the Earth at various depths.

    You will notice, at various depths, such as at the 5,000 Km level, the speed of waves changing very sharply - either speeding up or slowing down. Scientists look at these sharp changes in speed and then state that this is due to sharp changes in density. They use this to "prove" that the Mantle is composed of a different type of material to the Outer core and so forth. You have seen the Hollow Planets seismic model and how radically a seismic ray's path may differ from the solid Earth model. Supposing the Earth really is hollow, it would then follow that the paths of waves differ in reality from what scientific theory supposes. That being the case, scientists may suppose a certain ray speeds up or slows down when in fact it does nothing of the kind. If they knew the right path (like the rays going through the core for example), then it might turn out that such rapid speed changes never actually occur.

    However, since scientists are obsessed with the need to have a model which matches the 6 trillion tons needed (according to their gravity experiments), they need to find a way of "packing lots of matter into the Earth". So they are looking for evidence of changes in density. I'm sure that when they find they have to account for certain behaviour by postulating such instantaneous increases/decreases in speed that it makes them confident they are on the right track. But the opposite may be true. It is entirely possible that if one knew the exact paths of the rays that one would find the speed of seismic waves would not vary that much.

    This is a most important point. It would mean that my Hollow Planet seismic model is internally consistent. In other words, it postulates that the Earth is homogenous, and a resultant analysis of seismic wave speeds along the paths postulated should then prove that indeed the Earth is homogenous. This would be a further proof that my model is the right one and not the solid earth model.

    Lesson #7: Deep Quakes may disprove the Solid Earth model.
    According to scientists, pressure increases with depth. According to their calculations the pressure is so great that between 70-150 Km down, all rock will begin to flow. Below 150 Km there is no known material which will not flow. Therefore, according to scientists, there can be no earthquakes with epicentres deeper than 150 Km - because it is IMPOSSIBLE!

    But there are! Tens of thousands of Earthquakes have epicentres deeper than 150 Km. The histogram below shows some curious things.

    It shows that earthquakes occur right up to a depth of 300 Km down. The picture is somewhat consistent with science's expectations because there are less quakes with depth (though they do not stop at 150 Km as expected). Then a most curious thing happens, they increase in number up to a depth of 700 Km where they end. Scientists try to explain these quakes by invoking various possible strange properties of matter. Although each theory advanced so far has had problems with it.

    What no scientist on Earth is willing to accept is that maybe gravity does not behave the way they believe it does! That histogram may be the proof that gravity does not behave as is expected at depth. Why can't scientists look at that histogram and see it for what it might be telling us? That histogram may be "stating" quite clearly that the Earth does not have those pressures inside and that it remains relatively cool down to incredible depths? Maybe that diagram is "telling us" that gravity does not behave at depths the way we are expecting. If that is so, then everything we think we know about the mass of the Earth may be wrong.

    Note, gravity is a very weak force and even a bit of static electricity could produce an attraction far in excess of anything gravity could produce - but with a fraction of the mass. If that is the case, you don't need to worry about the Earth having to have a mass of 6 trillion tons. It may weigh considerably less.

    As final note, it may be that there are quakes deeper than 700 Km but they are so far away, and maybe the effects of gravity are so weak that they do not have enough force for us to detect them. Let me point out that seismologists have indeed speculated about the possible existence of "Silent Earthquakes" which are remain undetected by our equipment.

    Occam's Razor & the Hollow Planets model: When in doubt, the simplest model is probably right. There is "rule" in science known as Occam's razor. Occam's Razor is a little piece of logic which states: When choosing between two or more theories it is most likely that the simplest explanation is the correct one. You have now seen my simple "sandwich" Hollow Planet model, which assumes the Earth is largely homogenous in composition, and you have seen how this simple model can match and even better the achievements of the more complex and unwieldy solid-Earth model. Does this idea of mine not satisfy Occam's Razor much more than the solid-Earth theory does?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    There is no Byrd diary that includes an account of "hollow earth." Modern proponents of hollow earth draw all their motivation from the bolded passage above. Byrd wasn't deluded. He was misquoted.
    Check the previous posts.....
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    Lava is is molten rock at the surface, below the surface it is termed magma, and most of the earth is composed of magma, called the mantle.

    I will just flat say it, the earth is NOT hollow.
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    These are the reason why the Earth is NOT hollow:

    First, we have measured the transmission and propagation of seismic shock waves (p-waves and v-waves) through the Earth. They act exactly as we know shock waves do when passing through a plastic mantle, then solid metallic core. If the Earth were hollow, we'd have completely different seismic readings.

    Second, a sun needs to be a certain size in order for its gravitational attraction to cause the necessary pressure to start the fusion "engine". Recall that Jupiter was almost big enough to have become a star -- but not quite; it was off by a factor of ten. If there were a sun in the middle of the Earth, it'd have to be ten or 12 times as big as Jupiter, which would (obviously) not fit into the center of the Earth.

    Third, if the Earth were hollow, even with a theoretically impossible sun in the middle of it, the Earth's gravitational acceleration would be substantially less than its actual 9m/sec/sec -- and it's not.

    Fourth, we have no pictures or any other evidence of huge holes at the North or South Poles. We have a permanent station in the South Pole, and even tourists visit there. There's no hole.

    And though I've never been to Antarctica, People have flown right over the North Pole and looked down and have seen ice among the clouds. If there'd been a hole 1200 miles in diameter, I think that at least one of the thousands and thousands of people who fly over it every summer would've seen it.

    The picture on the cited website is not a hole; it is, if not a photoshopped version, simply a polar cyclonic storm.


    But I could be wrong.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Lava is is molten rock at the surface, below the surface it is termed magma, and most of the earth is composed of magma, called the mantle.

    I will just flat say it, the earth is NOT hollow.
    Hell, I'd cite the rotating iron core, which iirc is the source of our magnetosphere.
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician
    Hell, I'd cite the rotating iron core, which iirc is the source of our magnetosphere.
    There aren't any studies showing the Earth's core is made of anything. When seismic studies are made of the Earth's structure the acoustic waves do not pass through the inner core. Scientists heve extrapolated from this, and the planets magnetic field, that the outer core is fluid with an iron inner core that is rotating at a different speed therefore generating an electric current and producing the Earth's magnetic field.

    There are some problems with this. The shape of Earth's magnetic field (magnetosphere) suggests a toroidal electric current which doesn't fit well to an electric current created by a rotating iron sphere. The shape and orientation of the magnetosphere with respect to the sun and the heliospheric current sheet (Solar Wind) also suggests that it is an interference pattern formed by an obstruction in a fluid medium which suggests (to me anyway) that the magnetosphere is an artifact of an interaction between the Earth and the Heliospheric current sheet. Also, Occam's razor states that the simplest answer is most likely to be correct, by this rationale the reason acoustic waves do not pass through the centre of the Earth is because there is nothing there.

    There is no physical evidence to state that the core of the Earth is plasma but, personally speaking, it's seems like an interesting avenue for investigation and a number of forum members have developed ideas in this direction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    There is no Byrd diary that includes an account of "hollow earth." Modern proponents of hollow earth draw all their motivation from the bolded passage above. Byrd wasn't deluded. He was misquoted.
    Check the previous posts.....
    Those diary entries most probably aren't Byrd's and completely fabricated as a hoax. Here's Byrd's real diary: http://goo.gl/d6s7 Please direct us to the page that the above post references or concede that the diary you cited is a hoax or, at least, unreliable as any source of evidence.

    Then, you may promptly remove the post and offer a link to it as the copy/paste exceeds any reasonable expectation of fair use. Unless of course you are the original hoaxer, in which case you may leave it and apply your own copyright. But you may not attribute it to Byrd.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Lava is is molten rock at the surface, below the surface it is termed magma, and most of the earth is composed of magma, called the mantle.
    There is one error made by otherwise knowledgeable individuals that surfaces on every forum with breathtaking regularity. You have just made it.

    The mantle is not composed of magma. The mantle is not molten. Please write this out one hundred times. Stating that it is, is the equivalent of saying Darwin's theory was in essence Lamarkian. It is really that bad.

    As a consequence, it renders anything else you might say in regard to the interior of the Earth highly questionable. I hate ranting like this (actually I love it), but we really must try to get the basics right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    Those diary entries most probably aren't Byrd's and completely fabricated as a hoax. Here's Byrd's real diary: http://goo.gl/d6s7 Please direct us to the page that the above post references or concede that the diary you cited is a hoax or, at least, unreliable as any source of evidence.

    Then, you may promptly remove the post and offer a link to it as the copy/paste exceeds any reasonable expectation of fair use. Unless of course you are the original hoaxer, in which case you may leave it and apply your own copyright. But you may not attribute it to Byrd.
    I'm inclined to agree with you....

    I found one thing that disturbed me after studying Admiral Bryd’s biography. Somewhere along the way there had been added an expedition that no history book had even mentioned a 1947 Arctic expedition. It could be possible that he went to the Arctic in February of 1947, but for what purpose? He had already “been there and done that.” Another problem is February is the dead of winter in the Arctic with its well known 24 hours of darkness and unpredictable flying weather. However, the biggest negative ruling out a February 1947 Arctic expedition by Admiral Byrd was the indisputable fact that he was in the middle of the command of his life called Operation Highjump, the most extensive Antarctic expedition in the world. The operation made front-page headlines around the world with reports about the Admirals personal movements broadcast around the world daily from January 2nd until his return to America on April 14th 1947. This would have made a North Polar flight during this time nearly impossible. Where did the story of a February 1947 Arctic expedition actually come from?

    The first mention of a 1947 North Polar flight by the Admiral can be found in the book Worlds Beyond The Poles: Physical Continuity of the Universe (1959) by a controversial self-proclaimed scientist, F. Amadeo Giannini. On page 13 of his book under the heading “The Changing Scene 1927-1947” he presents a list of things that happened during those years to support his theory. One of the entries is:

    “1947: February “I’d like to see that land beyond the pole. The area beyond the pole is the center of the great unknown.”

    Not only was this the first time a 1947 flight is ever mentioned, but this also seems to be the origin of this often used quote attributed to Admiral Byrd. The actual source of this quote was probably an article that appeared in the October 1947 issue National Geographies Magazine titled “Our Navy Explores Antarctica”, in which the Admiral refers several times to the “Mystery Land beyond The Pole” although not in the sequence of words presented by Mr. Giannini. And most importantly of all, Byrd was talking about Antarctica.

    Contrary to popular belief, Giannina was not a believer in the Hollow Earth. Nor is his book, Worlds Beyond The Poles, a Hollow Earth book. As Walter Kafton-Minkel reported in his excellent book on the history of the belief in a Hollow/Subterranean world Subterranean Worlds (1989):

    “As a young man in 1926, Giannini had been wandering through a New England forest when he had a vision. Guided by “his extrasensory perception” he suddenly realized that the earth was not round, but sort of spindle-shaped, and that the North and South Poles were illusory points. The earth’s surface, he perceived did not end at the points of the spindle but continued into space and curved back over our heads. What looked like stars, planets, galaxies and comets were actually globular and isolated areas of a continuous and unbroken outer sky surface. This meant that these seemingly “heavenly” bodies weren’t heavenly at all, but points of the vast land surface of the universe, part of which was the earth’s surface. There was no need to develop rockets to explore space, wrote Giannini for “space” was an illusion created by the refraction of the lenses of our eyes, telescopes and cameras. All we needed to do to reach Mars or Venus was to climb into an airplane (or amphibious vehicle) with a very large tank of gas and fly (or drive) there. When Admiral Byrd flew beyond the poles he had proven Giannini correct – the earth did not end at the poles, but continued into “vast new lands”.” (Page 195).

    Immediately following the publication of Giannini’s book, the heated debates about a February 1947 North Polar Flight began and the argument has continued to this day.

    By 1961 the controversy had reached the point, particularly in the pages of Ray Palmer’s Flying Saucer magazine, that in the February 1961 issue of that magazine, editor Ray Palmer made a challenge to Mr. Giannini.

    “Undoubtedly this [article] will lead to still further action on the part of Mr. Giannini, whose place in this weird question of the mystery surrounding both Poles must certainly be settled in the pages of this magazine. Thus we invite Mr. Giannini to use all the space he needs in our pages to present his case – which as we see it is to produce the proof with which he backed up his book and the information concerning Byrd that he has presented.” (Page 4).

    However, Giannini never took Mr. Palmer up on his challenge. In fact Mr. Giannini never presented his proof anywhere. His stock answer to any inquiries was “You can find all the information in The New York Times.”

    I have spent many hours at the Public Library reading through the microfilm files of The New York Times, carefully studying every account having to do with Admiral Byrd, the Arctic and Antarctica for the years surrounding 1947 and nowhere can I find any indication that Admiral Byrd was personally involved in the secret Arctic missions of 1947. However, I will say that for Admiral Byrd to have gone to the North Pole in February of 1947 would have been like Eisenhower leaving the European front to check on General MacArthur’s doings in the Philippines. Why did Giannini insist that Byrd made this fictional trip as fact when it could discredit his whole book and even his theory? Walter-Kafton-Minkel explained it away as simply shoddy research. But how could a man with the ideas of F.Amadeo Giannini have any influence over men of this stature? Any time that I have approached the question of this impossible flight and the lack of evidence supporting it, those diehard believers have pointed at the “Missing Diary of Admiral Byrd” as “proof” that he did indeed make such a flight. It is time we look closely at this so-called “document.”

    It appears that there actually was a missing Admiral Byrd diary, but everything I had read said it was the diary of his 1926 polar flight, not the alleged 1947 flight. Recently, this lost 1926 diary was uncovered amongst the Admiral’s papers at the Ohio State University. Even the late Jimmy the Greek wouldn’t have given you good odds on the possibility of there being two “lost” diaries. Due to the kindness of a close friend, I was able to examine an original copy of this purported diary and scrutinize the original evidence. For anyone who has read the writings that were published by The Admiral, it becomes evident from the start of the first page that this was not the writing of Admiral Byrd. Admiral Byrd, an educated man, wrote very eloquently. The cover of this diary, presented in mimeograph booklet form, contains the crest adopted by the German secret Thule Society and a swastika and a sword surrounded by oak leaves. As Walter Kafton-Minkel wrote in Subterranean Worlds:

    “The diary itself, written in comic-book prose worthy of Michael X or Guy Ballard, describes Byrd’s awe building as he draws nearer to the Pole. He looks down and sees vegetation instead of ice: There should be no green valley below! We should be over ice and snow! Our navigation instruments are still spinning, the gyroscope is oscillating back and forth??” (Page 238)

    The date indicated in this diary is Feb. 19, 1947. How fortunate for Giannini, this substantiates his claim. Of course, this was the dead of winter. How was the crew able to see snow below? Or green fields for that matter.
    Other passages should be noted.
    • (Page 3) ?---Hours: Vast snow ice and snow below, note coloration of yellowish nature??
    • (Page 4) ?---Hours: In the distance is what appears to be mountains!?
    There are those who would argue that he was seeing by the light of the inner
    Sun, yet?
    • (Page 5) ?---I cannot see the sun anymore??
    How could he have seen the sun anyway? February is a period of total darkness!
    The only apparent reason that this diary was produced was to back up the claim of Giannini that such a flight happened.

    The alleged diary first became available from an organization based in rural Missouri, which called itself The Society For A Complete Earth in the 1970s. The head of this organization was a Native American, Captain Tawani Wakawa Shoush. As Walter Kafton-Minkel explains:

    “The society used as it’s emblem the crest of the Thule Society”. Shush said he was a retired U.S. Marine and a pilot whose goal was to fly a dirigible into one of the polar openings and establish contact with the Arianni, the tall blond, blue-eyed super-race that rules the inner world. The Arianni, he wrote, spoke a language very much like German and lived in cities built of shimmering crystal and used their saucers, again called flugelrads, to patrol the skies of the surface world and keep an eye on us. Shoush sold copies of what he claimed was a suppressed diary kept by Admiral Byrd during his North Pole flight of 1947.” (Page 238).

    In 1928 Admiral Byrd published his account of the 1926 North polar flight in a book titled Skyward. On page 196 Byrd reveals the following information:

    “When our calculations showed us to be about an hour from the Pole, I noticed through the cabin window a bad leak in the oil tank of the starboard motor. When I took the wheel again I kept my eyes glued on the oil leak and the oil pressure indicator.”

    Compare this information to the following passage from the so-called ”secret diary”:

    “(Page 2) --- Hours: Slight oil leak in starboard engine, oil pressure indicator seems normal, however.”

    Once again, the odds of Admiral Byrd having the exact same problem with the same engine on two different flights 11 years apart would probably be about the same chance of you winning the next lottery. And it gets better….or worse, depending on your point of view. I mentioned my research into the diary to a friend and he responded by sending me a video copy of the 1937 MGM motion picture “Lost Horizon”, drawing my attention to a scene where the star, Ronald Coleman has an audience with the Dali Lama in Shangra-La, a lost city in Tibet. The Master tells him that there “is a dark time coming” but that:

    The Master: “You, my son will live through the storm. You will preserve the fragrance of our history and add to it a touch of your own mind. Beyond that, my vision weakens, but I see in the great distance a new world starting in the ruins. But in hopefulness, seeking it's lost and legendary treasures, and they will all be here, my son, hidden behind the mountains under the blue moon, preserved as if by a miracle.”

    Now, let’s compare that with what, according to The Secret Diary of Admiral Richard Evelyn Byrd, was a meeting between The Admiral and the ”Master” of the Arianni:

    “Yes, my son,” replied the Master, “the dark ages that will come for your race will cover the Earth like a pall, but I believe that some of your race will live through the storm, beyond that I cannot say. We see a great distance a new world stirring from the ruins of your race, seeking its lost and legendary treasures, and they will be here my son, safe in our keeping.”

    It appears to me that the “Master” of the Arianni was either a great Ronald Coleman fan that spent his time watching old surface world movies or this is a blatant case of plagiarism. You decide. Is this "The Missing Secret Diary of Admiral Richard Evelyn Byrd"? I say NO!
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    Wow...

    Those idea's still propagating?

    I read a book on the subject some time in the 70's. It mentioned the things in the original post. If it were not to the seismic data, I would be open to the basic idea, except the part where there is a stable sun type object in the center, and staying there.

    Good Science fiction though.
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    I find it slightly disturbing that ideas like this and the Flat Earth Society still exist. Most of the stuff you see on it online is more of a joke than anything, but then you get the occasional people who read it and fall hook, line and sinker.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360
    I find it slightly disturbing that ideas like this and the Flat Earth Society still exist. Most of the stuff you see on it online is more of a joke than anything, but then you get the occasional people who read it and fall hook, line and sinker.
    WOW!!! Are you serious??? There are thousands of pictures of the Earth as a sphere!!! How could anyone think that the Earth is still flat? Now, the "hollow earth" theory is a bit different because the deepest hole drill into the Earth is only 7.6 miles deep and we haven't actually PENETRATED the crust yet to see what is or isn't in the Earth. Even though most scienists are resolved on this issue, the info I posted regarding the the the Hollow Earth Theory (minus the Byrd diary), is pretty compelling. And most important of all....IT'S SCIENCE!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    There aren't any studies showing the Earth's core is made of anything..
    There are several fundamental flaws in your thinking and the quoted statement encapsualtes several of them.

    There are numerous studies based upon our understanding of planetary formation that lead us to reasonable proposals for the internal composition of the Earth and that certainly set limits upon this composition.

    Beyond, or underlying this, are fundamental physicals laws and their expression in petrology that require a heterogenous Earth.

    I suspect that a simple application of strength of materials principles would demonstrate the impossibility of a hollow Earth. Indeed, as the one proposing something so out of the ordinary it is up to you to demonstrate that this is not the case.

    In equal measure I doubt that the dynamics of the Earth moon system can be accommodated within a hollow Earth scenario. Here, also, the ball is in your court.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    When seismic studies are made of the Earth's structure the acoustic waves do not pass through the inner core. .
    Oh really.
    Such an ignorant statement rather calls into question your purported understanding of seismology and by extension your hypothesis.

    It also raises the question - in your nicely produced diagrams are the ray paths actually calculated, or have you just used some nice arcs from a drawing program? Given the magnitude of your quoted blooper I now suspect the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    that the outer core is fluid with an iron inner core that is rotating at a different speed therefore generating an electric current and producing the Earth's magnetic field..
    It is not the different speed of rotation that is thought to be responsible for the magnetic field, but convection currents within the outer core.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    There are some problems with this. The shape of Earth's magnetic field (magnetosphere) suggests a toroidal electric current which doesn't fit well to an electric current created by a rotating iron sphere..
    Since the current is not generated by a rotating iron sphere you are arguing against a strawman.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    Also, Occam's razor states that the simplest answer is most likely to be correct, by this rationale the reason acoustic waves do not pass through the centre of the Earth is because there is nothing there..
    As noted above acoustic waves do pass through the centre of the Earth. The outer core, being liquid, does not readily transmit S- waves, but it will transmit P waves, as - of course - does the inner core.

    I repeat, if you are so utterly wrong on such a simple and fundamental issue, why should we take anything you say seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    There are some problems with this. The shape of Earth's magnetic field (magnetosphere) suggests a toroidal electric current which doesn't fit well to an electric current created by a rotating iron sphere..
    Since the current is not generated by a rotating iron sphere you are arguing against a strawman.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    There is no physical evidence to state that the core of the Earth is plasma but, personally speaking, it's seems like an interesting avenue for investigation.
    There is no physcial evidence to state that I shall find the winning jackpot lottery ticket in a gutter this weekend, while auditioning for a walk on part in Coronation Street, but it makes for interestiong speculation. It is, however, not science.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    ... and a number of forum members have developed ideas in this direction.
    A number of forum members (you know who you are) are certifiable.

    dnahotep,
    my vigorous attack on your nonsense is a compliment. You write well and have thought about the matter in detail. This could mislead those not well versed in the subject, or who are fresh enough to be gullible, into thinking you may have a point. You don't. You are talking nonsense and you are not talking science.

    Peace.
    O.
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    Well, I do hope that this is not the end of this particular topic. I have found the topic interesting and informative, and it is under the heading of pseudoscience.
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    "WOW!!! Are you serious??? There are thousands of pictures of the Earth as a sphere!!! How could anyone think that the Earth is still flat? Now, the "hollow earth" theory is a bit different because the deepest hole drill into the Earth is only 7.6 miles deep and we haven't actually PENETRATED the crust yet to see what is or isn't in the Earth."
    Yes if you google, the Flat Earth Society, you should find their website. Now after looking at it for awhile you will see that its more of a hoax than anything... However, on some other forums I have run across die hard believers.

    I really fail to see how the hollow Earth theory is much different. Hollow Earth theory, Flat Earth Society, Lost continents (Lemuria, for example); they're all remnants from old knowledge and logic. Although they do make great fiction.


    " And most important of all....IT'S SCIENCE!"
    No its not... Its in the pseudoscience section, if it were really science it would be in another area.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    my vigorous attack on your nonsense is a compliment. You write well and have thought about the matter in detail. This could mislead those not well versed in the subject, or who are fresh enough to be gullible, into thinking you may have a point. You don't. You are talking nonsense and you are not talking science.
    Ophiolite,
    I want you to know that I really do appreciate the compliment and your onslaught on my posts are EXACTLY what I was looking for. Information and ideas can be very misleading and disecting these things is what I'm all about. My only problem is that you attacked my decoy post! I've hopped on both sides of this topic intentionally. I put the info out there regarding Admiral Byrd's Diary but I also ripped that idea to shreds. The one post that actually attempts to approach this idea from a scientific perspective. Lesson 1 - 7 have remained untouched and uncommented on. I want to you use that same shredder you used on a bunch of info that I knew was bologna and scruntize that info with the same intensity (minus the insults preferrably).
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    dnahotep, you mentioned Occam's razor. Accepting a hollow earth is not the simpler explanation; in fact it creates many, many more problems - some of which would require rewriting some fundamental aspects of science. Hardly the simpler choice.

    The mass of the earth is known. Its average density is known. Densities of the various layers are also known. If there was a hollow centre then the numbers would no longer stack up. How would gravity and hydrostatic pressure create a hollow centre? That'd be truly bizarre and run counter to everything we know about gravity. There's also the little problem of the interface between the outer layers and the hollow centre. What would prevent it from collapse?

    The hollow earth idea lies on the wrong side of the blade, by a long margin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    The one post that actually attempts to approach this idea from a scientific perspective. Lesson 1 - 7 have remained untouched and uncommented on.
    Rubbish. I implicitly demolished the nonsense content of those lessons. At the same time there was no point in affirming those statements within the lessons that were scientifically sound.
    In short it is simple to demolish ill constructed rubbish, but a waste of time to argue a well established case.

    Specifically identify one of those lessons you would like scrutinises and shredded and I shall be happy to oblige.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Specifically identify one of those lessons you would like scrutinises and shredded and I shall be happy to oblige.
    AWESOME!!! Let's just start from the beginning with Lessons One and Two.
    "I am not teaching you anything. I can just help you to explore yourself and realize the cause of your ignorance; an appropriate medicine for a particular ailment."
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    Lesson #1: The Earth is NOT a ball of molten lava. The first question everyone asks me when they hear of the Hollow Planet idea is: "Where does lava come from then?"
    You would do a lot better to hang out with people who can ask intelligent questions then. I believe I pointed this out before. Strength of Materials. That is the fundamental problem with a hollow Earth. You don't need to go any further. Yet you never once have addressed this point - either for or against. It's equivalent to you saying "I couldn't swim the Atlantic in a week because I don't like jellyfish." Yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    Scientists know that most lava is slightly radioactive and they believe it is produced either by decaying radium (decayed uranium) or through stresses in the crust.
    No. All lava is radioactive. All buzzards are radioactive. All Republican voters are radioactive. Please do tell me of a naturally occuring material or object that is not radioactive.

    Geologists do not believe that lava is produced by decaying radium, nor are stresses in the crust responsible for anything other than releasing the lava to the surface through volcanic conduits: not at all what you were meaning.

    Lavas arise through partial melting of material in the mantle - not the crust. The melting is associated with heat generated by radioactive elements (among which radium does not dominate), but to suggest this is alone or primarily is responsible for generating the lavas is simply wrong. You need to consider also the residual heat of planetary formation and the heat generated by partitioning of the Earth especially core formation. Also the depression of melting point by the introduction of water via subduction.

    And all of that is still a pretty gross simplification, yet nowhere near as gross as your quoted assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    The crust is said to be no more than 20 miles thick,.
    Do you just make the numbers up as you go along? I'm not even going to correct something that a simple google search would show to be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    although to be honest nobody has ever actually penetrated the crust so we really do not know what (if anything different) lies beneath it. .
    Since exhumation and diapiric movement, as well as obduction of oceanic crust, has brought mantle and subducted materials back to the surface, then your statement is simply wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    Scientists will tell you that lava is a crustal phenomenon and all lava comes from no deeper than 20 miles down..
    Are you hallucinating again? This is simply wrong.
    Firstly, a point of semantics: molten rock is magma. It is only called lava when it is erupted at surface. So technically no lavas are found at any depth.
    More importantly magma may establish magma chambers at crustal depths, but can oroginate as deep as 100 miles, or more.


    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    As you go deeper, the pressures are supposed to be so great that the rock actually flows from extreme pressure. (As you will see, even this may not be really true)..
    I'm still waiting to see this. Where in your plethora of disjointed thinking did you make the case for that one?


    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    In fact, the final proof comes from seismology itself. When an earthquake occurs, seismic waves travel out in all directions throughout all the earth. There are two types of seismic waves: P and S. Based on this, scientists know that all of the earth is actually quite RIGID and composed only of rock.
    1. There are more than simply P and S waves.
    2. The rigidity of the planet is not required by the presence of P waves.
    3. I would not call an iron-nickel core rock. Perhaps you would. Perhaps others would. I would not.

    Your basic points are valid: the Earth is not molten; the Earth is not hollow. Your evidence and arguments by which you arrive at these conclusions are ill-founded, inarticulate, arm waving. (That's not an insult. That's an observation.)
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  28. #27  
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    That's not an insult. That's an observation.
    An accurate one I'd say.

    dnahotep: who is meant to be taught by these "lessons" anyway? You will certainly not find such woeful teaching in any respectable text book. Who would presume to find it proper and worth while to teach this collection of substandard, unscholarly and generally erroneous ideas?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    Scientists know that most lava is slightly radioactive and they believe it is produced either by decaying radium (decayed uranium) or through stresses in the crust.
    No. All lava is radioactive. All buzzards are radioactive. All Republican voters are radioactive. Please do tell me of a naturally occuring material or object that is not radioactive.
    This depends on you're definition of radioactive, ophi. Not everything undergoes radioactive decay. A solitary electron does not, iirc, decay. Neither do photons, nor any other fundamental particles.
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    Scientists know that most lava is slightly radioactive and they believe it is produced either by decaying radium (decayed uranium) or through stresses in the crust.
    No. All lava is radioactive. All buzzards are radioactive. All Republican voters are radioactive. Please do tell me of a naturally occuring material or object that is not radioactive.
    This depends on you're definition of radioactive, ophi. Not everything undergoes radioactive decay. A solitary electron does not, iirc, decay. Neither do photons, nor any other fundamental particles.
    I see, despite careful phrasing, that my statement was ambiguous. There are sufficient impurities in the vast majority of natural materials (or manufactured objects) and some of these are radioactive. so that consequently - as stated - such materials will be radioactive.

    I expected dnahotep to respond with reference to, for example, a gold nugget. I'm pretty certain no gold isotopes are radioactive, but I would be surprised if absolutely no radioacitve impurities found their way into such an object.

    That was where I was headed with my statement, but thanks for nudging me towards clarificaiton.

    As a sidebar I have always found it interesting that some 8000 fission events occur in the average human every second. That's radioactive for sure. :wink:
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep
    Scientists know that most lava is slightly radioactive and they believe it is produced either by decaying radium (decayed uranium) or through stresses in the crust.
    No. All lava is radioactive. All buzzards are radioactive. All Republican voters are radioactive. Please do tell me of a naturally occuring material or object that is not radioactive.
    This depends on you're definition of radioactive, ophi. Not everything undergoes radioactive decay. A solitary electron does not, iirc, decay. Neither do photons, nor any other fundamental particles.
    I see, despite careful phrasing, that my statement was ambiguous. There are sufficient impurities in the vast majority of natural materials (or manufactured objects) and some of these are radioactive. so that consequently - as stated - such materials will be radioactive.

    I expected dnahotep to respond with reference to, for example, a gold nugget. I'm pretty certain no gold isotopes are radioactive, but I would be surprised if absolutely no radioacitve impurities found their way into such an object.

    That was where I was headed with my statement, but thanks for nudging me towards clarificaiton.

    As a sidebar I have always found it interesting that some 8000 fission events occur in the average human every second. That's radioactive for sure. :wink:
    As a matter of fact, All but one isotope of gold is radioactive. Fun fact about elements, nearly all of them, if not every single one, have at least one radioisotope
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
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  32. #31  
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    Damn! I suspect the chemical inactivity of gold subconsciously led me to think of it as somewhat inert physically as well as chemically. Silly really. I should have checked. My only excuse is that I am on holiday and that means I don't check things, but just go with my gut.
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    No worries Ophi, but to your point, yes, damn near everything is at least somewhat radioactive, in that everything organic, for example, contains at least some C-14, which is proven to decay and is used to radiometrically date historic/pre-historic articles (I forget the exact range of dating, but it seems to my memory to be around the 5000 year marker.)
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  34. #33 Re: The Hollow Earth: Fact or Fiction? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnahotep

    “We have let you enter here because you are of noble character and well-known on the Surface World, Admiral.”

    “Surface World?”, I half-gasp under my breath!

    “Yes,” the Master replies with a smile, “you are in the domain of the Arianni, the Inner World of the Earth. We shall not long delay your mission, and you will be safely escorted back to the surface and for a distance beyond. But now, Admiral, I shall tell you why you have been summoned here. Our interest rightly begins just after your race exploded the first atomic bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan. It was at that alarming time we sent our flying machines, the "Flugelrads", to your surface world to investigate what your race had done. That is, of course, past history now, my dear Admiral, but I must continue on. You see, we have never interfered before in your race's wars, and barbarity, but now we must, for you have learned to tamper with a certain power that is not for Man, namely, that of atomic energy. Our emissaries have already delivered messages to the powers of your world, and yet they do not heed. Now you have been chosen to be witness here that our world does exist. You see, our Culture and Science is many thousands of years beyond your race, Admiral.”
    Ok.... has it occurred to you that, even from within Byrd's account, there is no mention of the Earth having a natural hollowness to it? The area he visited being underground could be an entirely artificial effect. His host did not say the whole Earth was completely hollow.

    If these people's science is literally "many thousands of years beyond" us, then pretty much anything is possible. Maybe he flew through some kind of time/dimensional warp or wormhole or something. Maybe there are hollow areas underground that have been excavated and filled with anti-gravity effects or something.

    I must say: this is a very interesting twist on UFO theory. I wonder if the military was really instructing him to keep his experience to himself for "national security reasons", or just to keep the public from thinking/seeing that he had lost his mind? A lot of real "go-getter" types are bipolar personalities, who do all their great accomplishments during the up phase, and then have to be committed during the down phase. I think it's kind of telling that he stopped writing in the journal for about 9 years.
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