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Thread: The health effects of light bulbs and lighting

  1. #1 The health effects of light bulbs and lighting 
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    Compact Fluorescent LIGHTBulbS

    THEY SCREW UP HEALTH IM SURE

    MAYBE THEY KILL BEES


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  3. #2  
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    I'd welcome any evidence which may support this (somewhat strange) assertion of yours.

    CFLs are killing the bees?
    Uhmm... I'll just ask the obvious, before bothering with the questions on the mechanism by which this might even be remotely possible.

    When are honey bees exposed to CFLs? Like... Uhhh... never?


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    So what you think they are using honey to make biodegradable CFL bulbs??? I don't even know if they are biodegradeble. Bring some hard evidence and then I might believe you :x look up the facts. Why are we desending into stupidity???

    The most proboble cause I think is that a wide spread genitic disease or something was creating because of the interbreeding of African and European bees or a virus that kills bees is being transmitted through flowers. Those are more proboble causes which sort of make sense but still probobly aren't true from the top of my head.
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  5. #4  
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    And whats with the need to shout it?? Regular sentence case works just as well and you don't annoy poeple with the shouting.
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  6. #5  
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    if im proven right you wont be commenting on my typing skills

    the bulbs are used on porches the bees go near porches and houses

    i feel the cfl destroy brick and mortor chualking and glue in houses and trees look less healthy not as before

    the world is dieing because of the cfls
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    i feel the cfl destroy brick and mortor chualking and glue in houses and trees look less healthy not as before

    the world is dieing because of the cfls
    I'm reminded now of a quote from a bright young man.



    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician
    my head hurts from all of the stupid present on the internet.
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    http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?ui...21&topic=14654

    Energy saving lightbulbs are BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH | Facebook

    thebulbs make us stupid too

    theyre bad for people and animals and insects

    worse than nuclear power
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    well let the experiments begin!


    put the damn bulbs in a room with bees and test it!

    they already think its cell phones and the current or feilds are stronger than a cell phone im sure
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  10. #9  
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    Holmes this a science forum.

    Put something up that resembles science or a hypothesis to link CFCs to bee deaths. A link to a report, scientific article extract, or something well thought out of your own making.

    Fluorescent bulbs have been around for more than 25 years, it shouldn't be too hard to find something objective.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    Holmes this a science forum.

    Put something up that resembles science or a hypothesis to link CFCs to bee deaths. A link to a report, scientific article extract, or something well thought out of your own making.

    Fluorescent bulbs have been around for more than 25 years, it shouldn't be too hard to find something objective.
    Honey bees are completely DIURNAL!! Thus they have NO interaction with lightbulbs of nay type at porches, they are in resting mode as soon as dusk starts in and dont reemerge from nests until the next morning. In fact very very few Hymenopterans are nocturnal and all major pollinators are day time active....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    thebulbs make us stupid too
    Have you used them a great deal?

    The wikipedia article contains a substantial number of links. It echoes Topalk's thoughts that this is likely a combination of factors, with viruses and parasites top of the list. Cell phones make it on that list as a rank outsider with no evidence to support the contention.

    Holmes what makes you think these bulbs are dangerous?
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    thebulbs make us stupid too
    Have you used them a great deal?

    The wikipedia article contains a substantial number of links. It echoes Topalk's thoughts that this is likely a combination of factors, with viruses and parasites top of the list. Cell phones make it on that list as a rank outsider with no evidence to support the contention.

    Holmes what makes you think these bulbs are dangerous?
    mainly by using them for 4 years and feeling like a living hell and getting rid of the damn things and feeling better

    2facebbook link above

    3 other links on internet

    where do bees keep hives? farmers barn near some cfl bulbs?houses?how far do emf waves travel?im not a scientist or am i? no degree

    but i do think -i cannot type well or have no time for corrections
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    how far do emf waves travel?

    i bet the bees moved to the mountains where no one goes

    i hate walking by a store that has the bulbs and i think they make hair fall out

    i saw barber shop yesterday with maybe 30 cfl bulbs
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    thebulbs make us stupid too
    Have you used them a great deal?

    The wikipedia article contains a substantial number of links. It echoes Topalk's thoughts that this is likely a combination of factors, with viruses and parasites top of the list. Cell phones make it on that list as a rank outsider with no evidence to support the contention.

    Holmes what makes you think these bulbs are dangerous?
    mainly by using them for 4 years and feeling like a living hell and getting rid of the damn things and feeling better

    2facebbook link above

    3 other links on internet

    where do bees keep hives? farmers barn near some cfl bulbs?houses?how far do emf waves travel?im not a scientist or am i? no degree

    but i do think -i cannot type well or have no time for corrections
    NO the hives are kept out in the fields/orchards where the pollination is wanted and the feral nests are wherever the queens feels is suitable. CFB have absolutely NO connection to honeybee disappearance and very very little physical interaction.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    thebulbs make us stupid too
    Have you used them a great deal?

    The wikipedia article contains a substantial number of links. It echoes Topalk's thoughts that this is likely a combination of factors, with viruses and parasites top of the list. Cell phones make it on that list as a rank outsider with no evidence to support the contention.

    Holmes what makes you think these bulbs are dangerous?
    mainly by using them for 4 years and feeling like a living hell and getting rid of the damn things and feeling better

    2facebbook link above

    3 other links on internet

    where do bees keep hives? farmers barn near some cfl bulbs?houses?how far do emf waves travel?im not a scientist or am i? no degree

    but i do think -i cannot type well or have no time for corrections
    NO the hives are kept out in the fields/orchards where the pollination is wanted and the feral nests are wherever the queens feels is suitable. CFB have absolutely NO connection to honeybee disappearance and very very little physical interaction.
    how do you know? have you run experiments?
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    the hives are kept out in the fields/orchards where the pollination is wanted and the feral nests are wherever the queens feels is suitable.
    Nowadays most honeybees in North America are trucked from farm to farm as needed. It is normal for a bee to spend one week in Ontario, another week in Colorado, etc. Of course the bees are boxed up in transit - no lamps on them.

    OTOH flourescent light could easily screw with insect senses - because the light is actually strobing on/off. Humans don't notice the strobe because of our relatively sluggish visual sampling rate. To a bee that could be a mentally exhausting ordeal of alternating bright/dark... alternately cueing their simple brains between day and night behaviours.
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  18. #17  
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    DIURNAL!!!!!!!!!!!


    I'm sorry but the whole concept fails on the fact that they have little to no interaction with the lights! As soon as dusk starts in they move back to the hive and bed down. They are not out and Active until the sun is up and has warmed the hive enough to revive the cold bees.

    And no many of the hives are NOT trucked from area to area, that is only a small percentage of the total captive honeybees and doesn't look at feral populations at all.

    It make no sense what so ever to try to blame the population decline on a fad of the week, unsupported by science, facebook craze; when a simple look at whether the two things in question EVEN ACTUALLY interact shows that they DONT!
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    I always figured that if it isn't the genetic crops, or something natural, that it is the cell phone towers radiation. You take a 1.9 ghz signal, and it will interfere with a bee's body due to the length acting as a 1/8 wave antenna or smaller.

    Ever take apart a cell phone and notice the antenna length?

    These cell towers put out a pretty high power. There is a trend of the bee populations dropping with increased cell service. This could be coincidental, but i suspect a link.
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  20. #19  
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    Thanks, that's where my mention of strobelights was headed. Insects sense (and think, and move) in a world of frequencies humans overlook. For example bees perceive a predatory dragonfly attack not by its shape, colour, or motion but by its frequency - which the diving dragonfly attempts to camoflage by beating its wings with a deceptive speed or false-doppler. I've also noticed bees change their pitch when threatened and pitch corresponds to "moods" of whole hives. I wonder if radio waves or even the power grid itself could produce enough harmonic "noise" to stress bees?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    the bees are in decline -where do they remain?in far mountains? away from people? how far does a bee travel in a day? they get near cities and they avoid the house maybe

    the light just shining through a window may get to them

    anyone ever noticed few bees or even flys are seen in rooms with the lights?

    in the year i had the cfl in the kitchen i dont remember seeing too many flies if any in kitchen as i did in previous years

    i think im right
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    the bees are in decline -where do they remain?in far mountains? away from people? how far does a bee travel in a day? they get near cities and they avoid the house maybe

    the light just shining through a window may get to them

    anyone ever noticed few bees or even flys are seen in rooms with the lights?

    in the year i had the cfl in the kitchen i dont remember seeing too many flies if any in kitchen as i did in previous years

    i think im right
    Diurnal!!!!!!!.................................... ................... :-/

    Please at least READ the responses to you topic and TRY to understand why your idea is utter poppycock.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Please at least READ the responses to you topic and TRY to understand why your idea is utter poppycock.
    It is giving poppycock a bad name.

    Holmes, do you have any idea how science works? Apparently not. Do you really think your own experiences with energy saving lightbulbs constitute a valid scientific experiment? Get real. You are making a public spectacle of yourself.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Please at least READ the responses to you topic and TRY to understand why your idea is utter poppycock.
    It is giving poppycock a bad name.

    Holmes, do you have any idea how science works? Apparently not. Do you really think your own experiences with energy saving lightbulbs constitute a valid scientific experiment? Get real. You are making a public spectacle of yourself.
    are you a scientist? a student? a stockholder in cfl bulbs? a gov prole who never invents but taxes people and goes to war over nothing like usa and uk does like in serbia?they lied there about them



    what experiments have you done/?
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    the bee eye sees more and is more sensitive to ultra violent light from fluorescent

    people hate insects so they love these lights

    as i asked have you seen insects in rooms with the lights?-i say they avoid areas or towns that have the bulbs-i think so

    moths will go near incandescent bulbs and stay or get caught in fixtures at least

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_eyes_have_the_bee
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    ok aside form the bee theory are you a very pro cfl bulb person? i bet you are, even to the point of keeping incandescent OUT OF THE peoples hands that feel they need those types of bulbs

    am i right ? you're like that i bet- California is doing this-theyre a bunch of self righteous jerks
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  27. #26  
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    And now the ad-homonym insinuations of complete bias start without any response to the actual comments...

    Are you going to even try to address the fact that the two things you talk about are not interacting in any significant way at all.

    And, by the way, I have used a cf daylight spectrum bulb to attract insects in for night photography and always got a ton of nocturnals. SO your premise that bugs hate CFB is crap too.


    And no I have NOTHING at all to do with the CFB industry and I am training to be a researcher in a natural sciences field (paleontology). So you can drop the conspiracy theory insinuations now too....
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    ophilite comes across as ruder to me than you-i didnt even have yo in mind
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    daylight spectrum bulb ?is thatthe same as these damn cfl bubs?
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    daylight spectrum bulb is not the same as a cheep cfl so why the hell are you confusing my thread?!!
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    daylight spectrum bulb is not the same as a cheep cfl so why the hell are you confusing my thread?!!
    Ummm, do to the fact that its a daylight spectrum compact florescent bulb! And because your premise is totally falsifiable just by looking at grade-school level information, such as when bees are active, eg during the day only.

    Ophiolite raised valid points which you refuse to address, just as you have refused to address my comments.

    All you do when confronted with an opposing opinion is start to make attacks on character and pointed insinuations that people are part of a conspiracy to present misinformation (information that doesn't fit your personal ideas).
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  32. #31  
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    No kidding. Bees are not active when any light noise from a fluorescent bulb would make any noticeable difference from daylight.

    I suggest people look at a term know and "signal to noise ration."
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
    No kidding. Bees are not active when any light noise from a fluorescent bulb would make any noticeable difference from daylight.

    I suggest people look at a term know and "signal to noise ration."
    hows that? the bulbs are on all the time, whether its a porch light at night or shining through a window day or night

    and do the bulbs emit sounds is another question-sounds bees hate
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    http://www.scientificblogging.com/ca...ur_pets_insane

    The big question is, of course, do they emit any ultrasound? I don't have a tunable ultrasound detector but David Pye at University of London does.

    He tested two low energy bulbs; U-shaped and coiled. The U-shaped bulb emitted at a fundamental frequency of 27 kHz and a coiled type at 37 kHz. Both had strong acoustic signals at the second harmonics (54 kHz and 74 kHz, respectively) and appreciable signals at the third harmonics (81 kHz and 11.1 kHz), he wrote.


    put that in your pipe
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    http://www.scientificblogging.com/cash/save_the_planet_make_your_pets_insane

    The big question is, of course, do they emit any ultrasound? I don't have a tunable ultrasound detector but David Pye at University of London does.

    He tested two low energy bulbs; U-shaped and coiled. The U-shaped bulb emitted at a fundamental frequency of 27 kHz and a coiled type at 37 kHz. Both had strong acoustic signals at the second harmonics (54 kHz and 74 kHz, respectively) and appreciable signals at the third harmonics (81 kHz and 11.1 kHz), he wrote.


    put that in your pipe
    And still totally irrelevant unless any sort of connection to the honeybees is found. you are just trying to find reasons to reinforce and export you personal dislike for the bulbs.
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    are you a scientist?
    I am not a scientist, but I have had scientific training, which I have applied in an egineering capcity. Beyond that I have retained and expanded my interest in science with an ongoing program of self education.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    a student?
    I am a student in the sense that the day I stop learning is the day I shall die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    a stockholder in cfl bulbs?
    I am reasonably sure that one of my pension schemes is likely to have some investments in cfl bulbs (statistical probability), but I have never given the matter any thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    a gov prole who never invents but taxes people and goes to war over nothing like usa and uk does like in serbia?
    Do you have some form of mental illness? I ask this because these childish accusations, bearing no relationship to your central thesis and carrying strong hints of paranoia, are evidence of poor mental health. If such is the case I have no wish to exacerbate your condition.

    To answer your question: I do not work for the government. I have never worked for the government. I do not plan to work for the government.
    The bellicose tendencies of the USA and the UK have nothing to do with the evidence for or against cfl bulbs being responsible for the demise of bee colonies. Would you like to a) try to stay on topic b) tell me what experiemnts you, or any one else, has done to confirm your hypothesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    what experiments have you done/?
    I have done no experiments relating to this matter. I do not have to. I am not the one making the outrageous claim. You are. You are the one on whom the burden of proof lies. Asking me what experiments I have done further demonstrates that you have no idea how the scientific process works.

    Seriously Holmes, you are probably a regular guy, with lots of friends and good standing in the community, but here you are coming across as an ignorant, deluded prat. Is that what you want?
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    I have a counter proposal. I think it's the letter Q which is killing off the bees. That letter always gave me the willies, so it must be true. Anyone who denies this must be some sort of high powered librarian or author with an agenda to push, like trying to force people to use the letter X more.
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  38. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by inow
    I have a counter proposal. I think it's the letter Q which is killing off the bees. That letter always gave me the willies, so it must be true. Anyone who denies this must be some sort of high powered librarian or author with an agenda to push, like trying to force people to use the letter X more.
    Bloody typical. As soon as any problems arise - international terrorism, bee extinction, shortage of tea and crumpets - who gets the blame? The letter Q. Every time. It's just a knee jerk reaction. How come no one ever blames the number 5? I think that's odd.
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    your sense of humour is very funny to me

    maybe i should just start over here

    i am a screwed up person with a bad condition

    in 2006 or so i got shingles in eye i was in hOSpital i got eye damage

    i got post herpetic nueralgia from the shingles which i think is similar to ms at times, which ill have for life they say

    the websites i see say some with ms and other diseases are made worse by the bulbs and i feel this too

    i resent i cannot buy the old bulbs in some countries and here in usa in places or everywehre eventually

    i am sure the cfls make me worse

    as for mental disorders whatever that is that doesest disqualify me in learning and stating an opionin-john nash had schizophenia and won nobel-im sick of people making fun of menatlly ill-it never ends i guess



    i dont hear voices

    i live in a state where mediacal pot is legal and i have no idea how to get it
    i need it for phn diesase possibly

    no i dont type well and no im not healthly as you

    as you get older youre more likely to get shingles/herpes zoster

    maybe when you get older you will get it and be in my place

    its the leading cause of suicide for older adults

    STOP ARGUING WITH ME-I JUST WANT TO LEARN WHATS GOING ON!!

    i have no time and no energy

    i wonder why bill gates cant give us spell check like firefox, and why firefox wont work on this brand new windows 7 computer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    http://www.scientificblogging.com/cash/save_the_planet_make_your_pets_insane

    The big question is, of course, do they emit any ultrasound? I don't have a tunable ultrasound detector but David Pye at University of London does.

    He tested two low energy bulbs; U-shaped and coiled. The U-shaped bulb emitted at a fundamental frequency of 27 kHz and a coiled type at 37 kHz. Both had strong acoustic signals at the second harmonics (54 kHz and 74 kHz, respectively) and appreciable signals at the third harmonics (81 kHz and 11.1 kHz), he wrote.


    put that in your pipe
    And still totally irrelevant unless any sort of connection to the honeybees is found. you are just trying to find reasons to reinforce and export you personal dislike for the bulbs.

    the link above someone left comment the dog goes out of room when the bulb is on thats enough for me to run expoeriemnts if i had the means
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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    http://www.scientificblogging.com/cash/save_the_planet_make_your_pets_insane

    The big question is, of course, do they emit any ultrasound? I don't have a tunable ultrasound detector but David Pye at University of London does.

    He tested two low energy bulbs; U-shaped and coiled. The U-shaped bulb emitted at a fundamental frequency of 27 kHz and a coiled type at 37 kHz. Both had strong acoustic signals at the second harmonics (54 kHz and 74 kHz, respectively) and appreciable signals at the third harmonics (81 kHz and 11.1 kHz), he wrote.


    put that in your pipe
    And still totally irrelevant unless any sort of connection to the honeybees is found. you are just trying to find reasons to reinforce and export you personal dislike for the bulbs.

    the link above someone left comment the dog goes out of room when the bulb is on thats enough for me to run expoeriemnts if i had the means
    OK but attributing anything and everything that you think is odd to CFBs is NOT the way to go about things.

    I suggest stop reading blogs and facebook posts and start reading up on the scientific material published in journals, its really easy to do just use google scholar rather then google.

    The fact that one dog is purported to leave a room if the bulb is on does not in any way constitute evidence that they will have any effect at all on any other animal or even other dogs.
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  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    the bees are in decline -where do they remain?in far mountains? away from people? how far does a bee travel in a day? they get near cities and they avoid the house maybe

    the light just shining through a window may get to them

    anyone ever noticed few bees or even flys are seen in rooms with the lights?

    in the year i had the cfl in the kitchen i dont remember seeing too many flies if any in kitchen as i did in previous years

    i think im right
    I felt the need to quote backe to here. I use CFL's in my home, and I've never seen more flies in my house. The population of flies in my home is up at least 300% from last year and the year before. I've counted an average of 86 flies on my kitchen ceiling alone, over the past week, when in a normal year (at this time of year) There'd be closer to 20. My information supports the argument that insects don't give a shit what generates the light (after all, light is, essentially, light.) and only care how much there is (the CFL's are 30% brighter than the incandescents they replaced).

    And, as I noticed I was quoted in this thread, I'll reiterate my sentiment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician
    my head hurts from all of the stupid present on the internet.
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    i think i know what's killing off the honey bees......










    ....stupid people. its actually a pretty logical assumption. Ill get to work on the proof. :wink:
    i feel like a refugee from the Island of Dr. Moreau. Some morally inverted, twisted character from a Céline novel. The hot sauce helps.
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  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    http://www.scientificblogging.com/cash/save_the_planet_make_your_pets_insane

    The big question is, of course, do they emit any ultrasound? I don't have a tunable ultrasound detector but David Pye at University of London does.

    He tested two low energy bulbs; U-shaped and coiled. The U-shaped bulb emitted at a fundamental frequency of 27 kHz and a coiled type at 37 kHz. Both had strong acoustic signals at the second harmonics (54 kHz and 74 kHz, respectively) and appreciable signals at the third harmonics (81 kHz and 11.1 kHz), he wrote.


    put that in your pipe
    Ouch.

    If that's true, that could be a cause. The vibration of the bee's body could be damaging at enough of a sound pressure level, and the harmonics might be the cause of screwing with their navigation.
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  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    http://www.scientificblogging.com/cash/save_the_planet_make_your_pets_insane

    The big question is, of course, do they emit any ultrasound? I don't have a tunable ultrasound detector but David Pye at University of London does.

    He tested two low energy bulbs; U-shaped and coiled. The U-shaped bulb emitted at a fundamental frequency of 27 kHz and a coiled type at 37 kHz. Both had strong acoustic signals at the second harmonics (54 kHz and 74 kHz, respectively) and appreciable signals at the third harmonics (81 kHz and 11.1 kHz), he wrote.


    put that in your pipe
    And still totally irrelevant unless any sort of connection to the honeybees is found. you are just trying to find reasons to reinforce and export you personal dislike for the bulbs.
    I say there might be cause and effect. i forget the exact speed of sound, but the 27 khz puts a wavelength in the neighborhood of 1/2" The question become how large is the sound signal, because at this frequency or a harmonic, it can vibrationally damage a bee length body like microwaves cook food. Sure, it's molecular vibrational energy rather than electromagnetic, but energy is energy.
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  46. #45  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    http://www.scientificblogging.com/cash/save_the_planet_make_your_pets_insane

    The big question is, of course, do they emit any ultrasound? I don't have a tunable ultrasound detector but David Pye at University of London does.

    He tested two low energy bulbs; U-shaped and coiled. The U-shaped bulb emitted at a fundamental frequency of 27 kHz and a coiled type at 37 kHz. Both had strong acoustic signals at the second harmonics (54 kHz and 74 kHz, respectively) and appreciable signals at the third harmonics (81 kHz and 11.1 kHz), he wrote.


    put that in your pipe
    And still totally irrelevant unless any sort of connection to the honeybees is found. you are just trying to find reasons to reinforce and export you personal dislike for the bulbs.
    I say there might be cause and effect. i forget the exact speed of sound, but the 27 khz puts a wavelength in the neighborhood of 1/2" The question become how large is the sound signal, because at this frequency or a harmonic, it can vibrationally damage a bee length body like microwaves cook food. Sure, it's molecular vibrational energy rather than electromagnetic, but energy is energy.
    Except the are not all the exact same length or width or mass, that the internal structuring is going to majorly affect any possible receptivity, of which there is little to no correlative proof.
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    I found this article on the BBC web site, it is called " Our bees are buzzing off. But why ? " Professor Elke Genersch has published an article in the journal Applied Microbiology and Biotechnology, there is a link to this journal at the bottom of the page. Whatever your thoughts, it is very interesting.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth...00/8680500.stm
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  48. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    i am a screwed up person with a bad condition
    I am sorry to hear that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    the websites i see say some with ms and other diseases are made worse by the bulbs and i feel this too
    It would have been helpful if you had explained this very specific state of affairs at the outset. Even so, it is a long stretch to go from 'these bulbs may cause a worsening of certain specific medical conditions' to 'these bulbs are causing the extinction of bees and are bad for everyone'. There is apparently no evidence to support that extreme position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    as for mental disorders whatever that is that doesest disqualify me in learning and stating an opionin-john nash had schizophenia and won nobel-im sick of people making fun of menatlly ill-it never ends i guess
    And that is precisely why I asked you if you had a mental condition and stated that I had no wish to make it worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    no i dont type well and no im not healthly as you
    You have no idea how healthy or unhealthy I am. I have had two strokes and experience ischemic cerebral events on multiple occasions everyday, in which I 'lose' one or other side of my body for many seconds. My neurologist tells me there is no way to distinguish at the outset whether any particular attack will simply pass or will be the one that turns me into a vegetable or kills me. So please don't lecture me on our comparative states of health.


    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    STOP ARGUING WITH ME-I JUST WANT TO LEARN WHATS GOING ON!!
    I am not arguing with you. I am telling you that your ideas are mistaken and unscientific. This is the first thing that you need to learn. You can move one from there.
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  49. #48  
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    im sorry to hear of your condition which sounds worse than mine

    id recommend getting rid of cfl bulbs -use leds or incandescent

    have you seen the forums at braintalk?org or .com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Except the are not all the exact same length or width or mass, that the internal structuring is going to majorly affect any possible receptivity, of which there is little to no correlative proof.
    It doesn't need to be exact, and from bulb to bulb there will be some differences. Longer or shorter wavelengths will still cause bodily receipt of energy. Just not as effective as if the body length was a perfect tune.

    I don't think this is the reason, I just will not exclude it as a possibility.
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    so maybe im right?
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  53. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    so maybe im right?
    Ummm, no.
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    maybe im worng on the bees but the bulbs make people fat and stupid i think

    iq scores are down i bet

    obesity is up

    last night saw a thing on au bees screwing up usa bees

    id like to see this post remamed

    "the health effects of light bulbs and lighting"

    and moved to the regular health forum
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  55. #54  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    maybe im worng on the bees but the bulbs make people fat and stupid i think

    iq scores are down i bet

    obesity is up

    last night saw a thing on au bees screwing up usa bees

    id like to see this post remamed

    "the health effects of light bulbs and lighting"

    and moved to the regular health forum
    First you will have to supply viable evidence that the bulbs actually have any effect on physical biology in any way, not just personal claims of wildly varying maladies.
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  56. #55  
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    There's a statistically significant correlation between the decline in pirates and the rise in global temperatures. Ergo, pirates prevent global warming?

    As Paleoichneum suggests, correlation is not causation. You may not even have correlation. Once you do, you then need a plausible mechanism and then you need to test it.
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  57. #56  
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    why doctors say fluorescent bulbs are bad - Google Search

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...re+bad&spell=1
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    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2164309/posts

    osted on 01/14/2009 4:58:49 AM PST by ButThreeLeftsDo

    They can help save money and the environment, but some say energy saving light bulbs are making them sick.

    The new compact fluorescent bulbs have become exceedingly more popular over the past few years—they use less energy and last up to 10 times longer. So Connie Hall, of Stacy, also decided to invest in them, too.

    But a week later, Hall developed a severe rash on her arm and neck.

    "I was kind of horrified really," she said.

    Already super sensitive to light, a symptom of her Lupus, Hall also became weak, tired and her blood pressure was high. But doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong until a light bulb went off.

    "When the doctor walked in I said, ‘Do you think it has anything to do with the energy saving light bulbs I’m using,’" said Hall.

    Her doctor says that's exactly the case. The ultraviolet rays emitted from the bulbs were making Hall even more sick, and researchers agree the bulbs can not only effect those with Lupus, but also those who suffer from epilepsy or migraine headaches.

    "We think when the ultraviolet light hits the skin, it causes inflammation that can trigger a flare up of the entire illness. So it really can be a really big problem for Lupus patients," explained Dr. Daniel Mueller with the University of Minnesota.

    Hall has since she replaced the new bulbs with



    the question is how many controlled studies have been done on these goddamn lighbulbs by scientists and patients?
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  59. #58  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    why doctors say fluorescent bulbs are bad - Google Search

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...re+bad&spell=1
    A Google search result has to be just about the lamest attempt at providing evidence possible. Type what you want to be true into Google (without even using operators, I notice) and you will always, always get hits. And it is absolutely no up to us to go trawling through all of those pages trying to figure out which bits support your claims, which bits don't, and what the relative strengths of all these sources actually is.

    Quick point: The second link in the list goes to the Daily Mail, a tabloid newspaper so notoriously bad at reporting health science that it's actually a joke amongst many scientists. Even this article is only concerned with the effects of bulbs on people with severe pre-existing conditions, and that still seems to be based on nothing more than the opinions of a charity group and the chairman of a dermatologists association. They don't cite anything more than personal opinions. Awful source to use in a scientific argument.
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  60. #59  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2164309/posts

    osted on 01/14/2009 4:58:49 AM PST by ButThreeLeftsDo

    They can help save money and the environment, but some say energy saving light bulbs are making them sick.

    The new compact fluorescent bulbs have become exceedingly more popular over the past few years—they use less energy and last up to 10 times longer. So Connie Hall, of Stacy, also decided to invest in them, too.

    But a week later, Hall developed a severe rash on her arm and neck.

    "I was kind of horrified really," she said.

    Already super sensitive to light, a symptom of her Lupus, Hall also became weak, tired and her blood pressure was high. But doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong until a light bulb went off.

    "When the doctor walked in I said, ‘Do you think it has anything to do with the energy saving light bulbs I’m using,’" said Hall.

    Her doctor says that's exactly the case. The ultraviolet rays emitted from the bulbs were making Hall even more sick, and researchers agree the bulbs can not only effect those with Lupus, but also those who suffer from epilepsy or migraine headaches.

    "We think when the ultraviolet light hits the skin, it causes inflammation that can trigger a flare up of the entire illness. So it really can be a really big problem for Lupus patients," explained Dr. Daniel Mueller with the University of Minnesota.

    Hall has since she replaced the new bulbs with



    the question is how many controlled studies have been done on these goddamn lighbulbs by scientists and patients?
    If you're going to start spamming chunks of text from other websites I'm going to have to start deleting stuff- give us a summary, a link and what you think it means. Not this.
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    Okay, on this topic what I think is that the light is brighter on the low energy lamps. What I want to say with that is that it has a shorter wavelength, a higher frequency. On a white background the light is blue. For a number of reasons, this cannot be good. I name two of these reasonsl:

    1. To make an appearance of blue light, yet shine more then regular bulbs, one have to begin with a higher and shorter index (heat is not as plenty). For the skin, this excitates certain atoms but not all, thus the skin is exposed to an for it unknown threat that the body may or may not cope with. Whatever the molecule that the body lacks after that will be produced in rash amount. (this may cause cancer)

    2. The restproduct of a certain broken molecule in high amounts may cause irrational behaviour, given a really short light index.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeavingQuietly
    Okay, on this topic what I think is that the light is brighter on the low energy lamps. What I want to say with that is that it has a shorter wavelength, a higher frequency. On a white background the light is blue. For a number of reasons, this cannot be good. I name two of these reasonsl:

    1. To make an appearance of blue light, yet shine more then regular bulbs, one have to begin with a higher and shorter index (heat is not as plenty). For the skin, this excitates certain atoms but not all, thus the skin is exposed to an for it unknown threat that the body may or may not cope with. Whatever the molecule that the body lacks after that will be produced in rash amount. (this may cause cancer)

    2. The restproduct of a certain broken molecule in high amounts may cause irrational behaviour, given a really short light index.
    thanks it all seems very complicated to a novice like me

    i do know i take less aspirin now without using the cfl

    id live in fear of not having aspirin

    id get aspirin and b12 pills out as soon as i was in bed and have then nearby in case the" cfl attack" came on- i thought it would never end

    if i feel this way on hot days too ill be back the way i was 8 years ago

    i cant tell you enough about how much i hate these cfl bulbs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    Quote Originally Posted by LeavingQuietly
    Okay, on this topic what I think is that the light is brighter on the low energy lamps. What I want to say with that is that it has a shorter wavelength, a higher frequency. On a white background the light is blue. For a number of reasons, this cannot be good. I name two of these reasonsl:

    1. To make an appearance of blue light, yet shine more then regular bulbs, one have to begin with a higher and shorter index (heat is not as plenty). For the skin, this excitates certain atoms but not all, thus the skin is exposed to an for it unknown threat that the body may or may not cope with. Whatever the molecule that the body lacks after that will be produced in rash amount. (this may cause cancer)

    2. The restproduct of a certain broken molecule in high amounts may cause irrational behaviour, given a really short light index.
    thanks it all seems very complicated to a novice like me

    i do know i take less aspirin now without using the cfl

    id live in fear of not having aspirin

    id get aspirin and b12 pills out as soon as i was in bed and have then nearby in case the" cfl attack" came on- i thought it would never end

    if i feel this way on hot days too ill be back the way i was 8 years ago

    i cant tell you enough about how much i hate these cfl bulbs
    Whatever the light splits should be peace of cake to figure out, just put a multivitamin solution in the lamp light and preform a water test or test it chemically somehow. Then just compare to the regular solution.

    If b12 is missing then "stay away from the light" which is a quote from a movie, actually.
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  64. #63  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    maybe im worng on the bees but the bulbs make people fat and stupid i think

    iq scores are down i bet

    obesity is up

    last night saw a thing on au bees screwing up usa bees

    id like to see this post remamed

    "the health effects of light bulbs and lighting"

    and moved to the regular health forum
    Correlation is not equal to Causation
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
    -Plato

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  65. #64  
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    Right, slightly back on topic. I have found this snippet from the BBC about Chinese wasps. They managed to get to France via a shipping container, and are starting to devastate honey bee colonies. It seems that there are a lot of different things in play that affect the honey bee.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/eur...ey/8636949.stm
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  66. #65  
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    whats with yellow insect light bulbs?

    how come none of you science geniuses heard of these bulbs before?

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...+bulbs&spell=1
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  67. #66  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    whats with yellow insect light bulbs?

    how come none of you science geniuses heard of these bulbs before?

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...+bulbs&spell=1
    Did you actually read the second link down in your google search?

    The reason the bulbs (sort of) work is that the yellow spectrum of light they give off is not visible to many (but by no means all) insects. Thus the bulbs will attract less insects over all due to the insects not actually being able to see the light given off. Nothing more, nothing sinister or evil or bad, just simple use of biological knowledge.
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    For what it is worth, " Rare Bumblebees Make Comeback In Kent And Sussex " However these Bumblebees have been imported from New Zealand into a slightly altered habitat, can they survive ?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11472104
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