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Thread: 8-circuit model of consciousness

  1. #1 8-circuit model of consciousness 
    Forum Sophomore schiz0yd's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8-Circu..._Consciousness

    I was just wondering what views other people have on this topic, as it intrigues me greatly. I find the descriptions of each circuit make complete sense. Or does everyone just think Leary & Wilson are tripped out nutjobs?


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    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    Ok, I will leave this here just so you can see what the general consensus is.

    My take of course is that it is one huge pile of steaming wombat bollocks.


    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  4. #3  
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    He is a psychedelic drug advocate for a reason
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    Forum Junior DrmDoc's Avatar
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    According to Wikipedia, this 8-Curcuit model of consciousness presumes our brain evolved with the circuitry in place for higher consciousness although, at various stages in our species evolution, we had not yet attained the capacity to activate said circuitry. This model suggests that the circuitry for even higher consciousness resides in the right hemisphere, though we may not yet have the ability to fully engage its function. In my opinion, such an idea is analogous to evolving eyes before having the capacity or need to see--I just don't think evolution works in this way.

    In my opinion, higher consciousness is acquired by needs and desires that influence an organism to engage in brain and body altering behaviors and experiences that lead to higher levels of thought and perception. In other words, the circuitry for consciousness didn't and doesn't present without some manifest cause arising from need.

    From another perspective, it may be that an existing circuitry, evolved for one purpose, could have been adapted for use in another. This would be analogous to the adaptation of photosynthesis cells for sight--an evolution from photosensitivity to visual perception. Otherwise, the idea of a preexistent dedicated circuitry for consciousness is, in my opinion, doubtful.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Sophomore schiz0yd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrmDoc
    According to Wikipedia, this 8-Curcuit model of consciousness presumes our brain evolved with the circuitry in place for higher consciousness although, at various stages in our species evolution, we had not yet attained the capacity to activate said circuitry. This model suggests that the circuitry for even higher consciousness resides in the right hemisphere, though we may not yet have the ability to fully engage its function. In my opinion, such an idea is analogous to evolving eyes before having the capacity or need to see--I just don't think evolution works in this way.
    DrmDoc, very recently I would have completely agreed with you. The logic behind evolution is the original source of my own interest in science. Similar to what you have said, it sounded to me a lot like intelligent design.

    During recent introspective contemplation due to a resolution of cognitive dissonance, I considered the paradox described here as a possible illusion due to my strict denial of intelligent design. I never thought of it in terms of this:

    Consciousness could be an intrinsic property of energy and therefor cannot be created nor destroyed, meaning that it has always existed. If it has always existed, then our subconscious must have also always existed within every species. Evolution of the brain could include circuits that are only used by the unconscious mind, and slightly similar to what you said about being adapted for one use and then used for another, these subconscious circuits could then possibly reach a state of complexity that allows the conscious mind to experience them under certain conditions. Ideas such as described in leary's circuits 5-8 begin to sound a lot more plausible if these ideas can be considered true for the sake of consideration.

    just for thought (this part is just rambling ideas):

    I've considered the idea that the natural forces are in fact pure consciousness when united, and energy that has isolated itself from the majority within it's system becomes an isolated consciousness. An organism would then be an isolated energy that continues to sustain it's existence. when matter and anti-matter annihilate each other, the annihilation is due to their energy/consciousness rejoining the universal consciousness. Of course, it may not be universal. If energy is consciousness, then gravity is aware. Gravity of the local system may be the only universal consciousness we are a part of, unless all gravity sources are connected.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Sophomore schiz0yd's Avatar
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    also I would like to point out that Einstein's quote in my signature seems to be referring to what I am talking about, in some sense.
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    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    In my opinion, such an idea is analogous to evolving eyes before having the capacity or need to see--I just don't think evolution works in this way.
    Indeed it does not.

    schiz0yd, I am going to move this to pseudoscience. I don't think it would fit in New Hypothesis and ideas, because no measure of scientific method is being attempted that I can see. I want to warn you though that I don't know how long it will survive there either.

    also I would like to point out that Einstein's quote in my signature seems to be referring to what I am talking about, in some sense.
    I don't think he had anything in mind close to what you are having.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  9. #8  
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    Wilson in one of his interviews stated that it would probably 'be' better to call 'circuits', 'systems' to reflect both a systems theory approach and also the changing anatomy of an entity as it goes through a neurological change
    Playing kinda fast & loose with language there. To make the idea less disprovable?

    Uninspiring fusion of flakey and naive. I stopped reading at the suggestion half our levels are reserved for higher consciousness on Mars.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  10. #9  
    Forum Sophomore schiz0yd's Avatar
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    I would just like to clarify by stating that Einstein said that our belief that our experiences of self, thoughts and feelings are separated from the rest of the universe is an "optical delusion of his consciousness". To say that independent thoughts, feelings and sense of self are a delusion of human consciousness can only mean that either consciousness is not real at all or that consciousness is universal.

    I don't think Einstein believed that it is the former. Ironically, I expect you, Kalster, to believe that this is delusional.
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    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schiz0yd
    I would just like to clarify by stating that Einstein said that our belief that our experiences of self, thoughts and feelings are separated from the rest of the universe is an "optical delusion of his consciousness". To say that independent thoughts, feelings and sense of self are a delusion of human consciousness can only mean that either consciousness is not real at all or that consciousness is universal.

    I don't think Einstein believed that it is the former. Ironically, I expect you, Kalster, to believe that this is delusional.
    Look again at the first part of your quote "A human being is a part of a whole, called by us the "universe", a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest...". There is a third option, which is that consciousness is real, but does not exist out of our brains and I am pretty sure that that is what Einstein was saying.

    Try and think of yourself as an advanced computer. No part of the computer can exist or function without its constituent parts. What we have learned since birth (hard drive) has been influenced in a feedback way by our genetic make-up and the expression thereof (programming). If you throw the computer into the fire it will cease to exist as a computer which includes all that it has learned through its operating time.

    Our consciousness is real, but it exists only as a patterned energy mediated by our bodies and brain structure. Once the brain is gone, so is consciousness.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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  12. #11  
    Forum Sophomore schiz0yd's Avatar
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    If I'm going to think of myself as a computer, I would have to consider the possibility of being a quantum computer due to the possibility of consciousness playing a fundamental role in the currently debated theories of quantum mechanics.

    While I do not know the specifics of the entire quantum world, I do know of many unresolved phenomena such as quantum entanglement, superpositions, quantum gravity and especially that wave function collapse remains unexplained and the only known information of wave collapse is that the collapse is triggered by observation. Hopefully we can agree on this, and also that one of the possible theories is that the collapse is triggered by a conscious observer.

    To completely rule out consciousness on a quantum level would be a logical error until this phenomenon can be explained. In that sense, I think it is impossible for either of us to prove the other wrong until a discovery is made. My logic lead me to believe in the possibility of what I am defending, and I ask that you do the same. Even Einstein made the mistake of ruling out possibilities.

    Open your mind; consider all that may be possible.

    I am not saying you are wrong; you may very well be correct but you can't prove it, much like I can't. I'm only saying that I think you're wrong. I only ask that you do the same in return for the sake of fairness.

    There are numerous scientists that support similar theories, though they are mocked for doing so. One thing that seems to be a commonality among such believers is direct experience of higher states of consciousness, through various methods that indicate a similar experience, despite the method. I, too, have experience such states of consciousness and therefor I have no doubt in my belief.

    I have nothing to gain from expressing such an idea, and considering how strictly I believed your side of the argument beforehand, such a turnaround in opinion can only be self-described as an epiphany. Being able to make such information on the aforementioned possibilities available to public eyes for their own consideration is all I could ask for, so thank you for not deleting another of my posts due to your own beliefs.
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  13. #12  
    Forum Sophomore schiz0yd's Avatar
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    Also, on Einstein's quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    look again at the first part of your quote "A human being is a part of a whole, called by us the "universe", a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest...". There is a third option, which is that consciousness is real, but does not exist out of our brains and I am pretty sure that that is what Einstein was saying.


    "A human being is a part of a whole".

    Human = Part

    "A part limited in time and space."

    Human = Part = limited in time and space
    Universe = Whole = unlimited in time and space

    "He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest..."

    This is where you stopped, and stated that this means the human's consciousness only exists in our minds, or in other words, thoughts and feelings are indeed seperated from the rest as your quote implies. This WOULD be true, if the quote really did end there.

    Continued, it says: "He experiences himself, his thought and feelings as something separated from the rest...a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness"

    I find it difficult for anyone to see this as saying that our consciousness is indeed separated from the rest, when it clearly states that the feeling of being separated is a DELUSION OF THE CONSCIOUSNESS. This negates your statement that a third viable option is that consciousness is limited to only ourselves, because Einstein clearly states that our conscious experience leads us to believe we are separate from all else when it is actually a delusion and our CONSCIOUS experience is actually only a PART of the WHOLE universe. I don't know how I can make it any clearer than that.

    h= human consciousness
    x= universe
    p= part
    Delusion of Human consciousness -> h=x
    True universe -> h = p/x

    if h < x, x = (x-h) + h

    x = 'greater' consciousness
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  14. #13  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    many in history has attempted to suppress new knowledge, but it never worked.
    If we wanted to suppress you or schiz0yd, you would have been banned a long time ago. Get off the soap box.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  15. #14  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    Off-topic posts have been removed. If you would like to engage in meta-discussion, visit the Site Feedback forum. If you have a desire to hijack the thread with another topic, make another thread or post in an exist thread on the topic
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  16. #15  
    Forum Sophomore schiz0yd's Avatar
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    I'm sorry SkinWalker, but I don't believe that my post was off-topic other than the fact that it was a response to Kalster's off-topic remark about suppressing ideas. That being said, I have no problem with it's removal as I believe a PM will work just as well.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    Off-topic posts have been removed. If you would like to engage in meta-discussion, visit the Site Feedback forum. If you have a desire to hijack the thread with another topic, make another thread or post in an exist thread on the topic
    I regret you are so frightened of differing beliefs. We could have some good debates otherwise.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. -- George Carlin
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