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Thread: Please help with some 2012 facts for my disertation

  1. #1 Please help with some 2012 facts for my disertation 
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    Hi all, i am a student currently studying film in the south west of England, i am currently in my final year and have begun my disertation, as part of my research i would like to hear from you all on your thoughts on the various predictions of the end of the world in 2012 as i am making a documentry on this subject. most of the encounters i have had with this subject on the internet, in my opinion have been utter rubish, however i did come across one article that grabed my attention. i am no scientist and therefor cannot asses this article properly and would appreciate some of your own views on it in helping me further understand it. i realy want to know if there is any truth in this. thank for your help.

    Rob.

    p.s: i know i am a terrible speller but thankfully making documentrys doesn't require much of this profession


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    LOL, have just realised that i did not post a link... sorry this is my first time dealing with forums!

    http://www.viewzone.com/endtime.html

    this is the article i was refering to.


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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    High, Armada.

    I've scanned some of the article. It started off in passable manner. I could even tolerate the postulated link between Jupiter's orbit and the solar cycle. But then came this passage.

    Prior to December 2012 we have been drifting on the top of the pizza, never really able to see the bottom. The plate and pizza are not parallel. They are moving at different angles. We've been drifting down, down, down... and on December 21st, 2012, we will be exactly level with the crust -- forming an "x" at the Galactic Equator where galactic gravity is the strongest. After 2012, if we are still here, we will be passing through the bottom zone, viewing the Milky Way pizza from the South.

    There is a technical term for this kind of statement in science. We call it crap. Actually, the full technical name would be unmitigated, unsubstantiated, irrevocably dumb, mind-numbingly stupid crap.

    It is true there is a 'galactic equator' and it is true that we cross and re-cross this equator as we slowly orbit the galaxy. However, the precision with which the position of the galactic equator is known is such that we could not time our passage through it to much closer than 10,000 years. The whole thing is utter nonsense.

    Please note my rigorous dismissal of this idea is no way intended as any kind of attack on you, but wholly upon this ridiculous idea. I applaud you for seeking out some opinions on it and wish you well with your project.
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    thanks for that, it certainly is enlightening, i did start to get remarkably confused when it got to that part, as i said before i am no scientist but it did seem rather far-fetched. i would like to know a bit more about what you think on the sun spots part though, is this plausable? could this cause major problems for us in 2012 or the near future?

    thanks again for your reply.
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    Even if there were a discrete and definable point at which one could delineate the galactic equator with precision (mind you, such a plane surely exists, I just don't know that we're able to observe it from our position within the galaxy) of +/- a year, there's no reason to think that it would affect us.

    Why would it? It's our distance from other objects in the galaxy that has effect, not their direction.

    It takes about 64 million years to complete a cycle of passing through the galactic equator and there just isn't anyway to predict when that next pass will be. The last I remember, the Sun was about 27 +/- 4 parsecs from the galactic plane. Relative to that plane, the Sun is moving only few km/sec but I don't know which direction (toward or away). Even if it were moving toward the galactic plane, and while we probably can't predict the crossing point with precision, the answer would be mathematically on the order of millions of years from now not 2-3.
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    i completely understand your point, but i'm more concerned about the solar flares, i am of the understanding that one of these flares actually knocked out an entire city in the states not too long ago, if as predicted this cycle's solar flares are going to be worse than ever, could this not be cause for concern? i read that scientists say the suns solar flare activity has been rising these past few years.
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    question: when the year 2013 is upon us and nothing of earth-shattering importance has happened in the year before, what year will be selected for the next round of destruction of the earth + what rationale will be given for it ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    This site explains the "era 2012" alignment pretty well.
    http://alignment2012.com/whatisga.htm
    It has nothing to do with the position of the earth in the galaxy. It concerns the alignment of the earth and sun toward the center of the galaxy at the December solstice. The alignment of the earth and sun to the galaxy center occurs every year, just not at the solstice. The alignment at the solstice is what makes "era 2012" special to the Mayan calendar. But note that the alignment is not a specific date but a range from 1980 to 2016, with the peak alignment at 1998, not 2012.
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  10. #9  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armada
    i completely understand your point, but i'm more concerned about the solar flares, i am of the understanding that one of these flares actually knocked out an entire city in the states not too long ago, if as predicted this cycle's solar flares are going to be worse than ever, could this not be cause for concern? i read that scientists say the suns solar flare activity has been rising these past few years.
    Firstly, solar flares are a major issue. The vast majority of flares eject material (coronal mass ejections) that comes nowhere near the Earth. (The solar system is a pretty big place after all.) Occasionally though, a large one will hit us head on. Result: beautiful aurora; possible overload of power grids (Quebec lost it in 1989(?)); fried electronics in satellites; disruption of some forms of radio communication. Exciting, interesting, economically problematic for some, but certainly not the end of civilisation.

    This article is a good overview of the subject.

    question: when the year 2013 is upon us and nothing of earth-shattering importance has happened in the year before, what year will be selected for the next round of destruction of the earth + what rationale will be given for it ?
    That will be 2020. I am already working on the first of a series of best selling books entitled:

    2020 Vision: What you need to know about the coming global catastrophe
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    2020 Vision: What you need to know about the coming global catastrophe
    Spammer! Charlatan!
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  12. #11  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    2020 Vision: What you need to know about the coming global catastrophe
    Spammer! Charlatan!
    not fair - just when i reach retirement age they pull the plug on the world
    i demand to speak to someone in charge !
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    If anything happens in 2012 it will be man-made.

    My feeling on it, is that people, being the generally brain dead people they are, will begin to freak out. The closer to the actual predicted date, the more people will panic and it will be this panic that will lead to mayhem and chaos. If no one said anything about December 21 2012 as the date of the "destruction" of the world, I don't think anything would happen, and no on would care.

    As others have said our alignment with the galactic center doesn't do anything to us.

    It is also a little known fact that December 21, 2012 is NOT the end date for the Maya calendar like so many people believe. It is the ending of one k'tun, ot b'ak'tun which just means a new age will begin. Their calender is cyclical, it doesn't ever end, it just keeps going.
    Always minimize the variables.

    Semper Paratus
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    2012 : son of the millennium bug
    become an IT consultant and let the good times roll
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  15. #14  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haasum
    Their calender is cyclical, it doesn't ever end, it just keeps going.
    Pretty much like End of the World theories.
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  16. #15 OMEGA POINT AS TO: Technologicl Singulariy 
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    Well, according to some which is not saying very much as to veracity, THE OMEGA POINT will occur in 2012. This is the point in time where true Artificial Intelligence will occur. Some chart graphs show the TECH progress line meeting time date line and I would assume a gradual transition from the HUMAN ERA to the POST HUMAN ERA is due to occur. Some out there have it nailed down NOV.22,2012.
    Now, I, myself intend to have one heck of a bash planned that day. I will provide fun for all. The crucially important attractive young women will be there. I pay no attention to political correctness. I never have and never will. You only have the time you HAVE to experience LIFE, and I never have and never will let political correctness get in my way of having a good time. So I will do what it takes [ pay money ] to see that they[ attractive women ] are there in abundant numbers properly motivated to provide for a good time for all. And all the other accouterments in abundance. I am a man after all, and my main objective is to see that I have a spectacular OMEGA POINT MOMENT. I hope that " moment " lasts a very long time.
    I had a good time last night. No REAL FUN, so to speak, as I and my brothers [actual brothers as apposed to some figure of speech ] define it. REAL FUN IS: getting it on with some gorgeous woman or women. And having it all come together in a very pleasing manner. That is what REAL FUN is.
    So I had a good time as opposed to real fun last night. I had had a stressful miserable day dealing with a lot of unanticipated poop.
    I pull into this typical cowtown bar/restaurant that I always pass by on the way to my sort of a farm that I do not waste my time trying to make any money out of by doing any actual farming . And, NO, I do NOT get any sort of FARM SUBSIDIES for NOT farming. If you are not familiar with some of these rural communites yiu might be surprised at all these " ROCK RIBBED REPUBLICANS" that receive such subsidies.
    So,anyway, I go ito the bar and immediately spot this guy in a uniform who I take to be a cop. I think, should I turn around and leave and decide, screw him, I am going to enjoy a couple beers and leave.
    He was no cop. He was a young Marine dressed in DRESS BLUES. He is sitting there with this beautiful young lady and, being a former Marine myself offer to buy him and this young lady whatever they wish to drink. All he wants is a beer and they offer me shots of some liquer that had bought an entire bottle of.
    The three of us end up having a very pleasant and even exciting time together. I ask if I can take some photos of them and they readily agree. I go out to my car and retrieve my fine quality digital camera and we all start flicking away in different poses and such. Her and him,him and me and such. Then he brings up the fact that tomorro, which is now today is what is know as THE MARINE CORP BIRTHDAY, November 10,1776. And that a big time MARNE CORPS BALL is all set up for what is now today in ROME, NEW YORK.
    Now I had presumed he and her had already planned to attend this ball together. This was not the case. She already had another some sort of boyfriend and this young Marine had not asked her attend the ball with her. No, he had called her up and asked if she knew of a girlfriend who he could escort to the ball so to speak.
    So now I see my oppurtunity to get things more interesting. So I ask her what sort of boyfriend is it that she has. She tells me , well they are not screwing or such things. I told her that is not a real boyfriend. These are people well into their 20s. She agrees. I told her : I don`t see how she can to better than this handsome young Marine and she agrees. And then he pipes in: he is being the coy one so to speak. I tell him : are you going to ask her to the ball or not ? Now things start to get [ I can`t say really fun, because, between me and my brothers it has the meaning as I defined it ]. But wait , the story is not over yet.
    So, he is being coy and will not ask her to attend the ball with him. She looks at me and says: well, you are a Marine, will you take me to the ball ? And starts hugging and kissing ME about my neck and ear wich I enjoyed very much. He also is a former Marine, no longer on active duty. So believe me, this young lady has me in a state of unanticipated excitement and confusion. I would have liked nothing better than to have left the bar then and there with her and go to her place with her. I am about 60 years old, but, those amongst my relatives tend to live on into their 90s and 100s unless they die of UNNATURAL CAUSES, which many of the males have managed to do over the years. The usual wars ,barfights, gunfights and such.
    So,it is never all that surprising to me when a younger woman takes an interest in me. I do my part in maintaining the Syntax tradition. Of course Syntax is not my actual name. I make my share of enemies and at times am compelled to have it out with them. What sort of a Syntax would I be if this were not so ?
    The young exmarine made up his mind and quit being coy and asked her to be his escort at the ball, and my goodness, what REAL FUN might they be sharing this very night. Those lucky ducks, as they say, Regards, ...Dr.Syntax
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    And that a big time MARNE CORPS BALL is all set up for what is now today in ROME, NEW YORK
    Marines have balls? If talk like this keeps up, I might have to move this thread to the Pseudoscience section.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    And that a big time MARNE CORPS BALL is all set up for what is now today in ROME, NEW YORK
    Marines have balls? If talk like this keeps up, I might have to move this thread to the Pseudoscience section.


    REPLY: This is the GENERAL FORUM : Gee Whiz, I did not realize this FACT that Marines celebrate this day fell into the category of pseudoscience . What pseudoscience are facts classified as ? Gee, my dictionaries must be incorrect as to the definitions of words: because surely skinwalker cannot be wrong about anything though he seems to be. This is not a scientific subject. And this is the forum where such unscientific subjects are directed to be discussed. NO, the fact that US MARINES celebrate this day is a FACT.This is a FACT, that I posted in a response to, not an original posting as to the topic being discussed. From the way " general discussion is defined in this forum it seems to me to be in agreement with the forum as it is defined to us members. Lighten up, try and allow for some freedom of expression in the GENERAL FORUM. ...Dr.Syntax
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  19. #18  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    Dude. It was humor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    Dude. It was humor.


    REPLY: I got it ! I am sorry IT`S A GOOD ONE ! ! ! You got me laughing and I thank you for it. I was a bit slow there. Regards, ...Dr.Syntax
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    [quote="SkinWalker"]
    And that a big time MARNE CORPS BALL is all set up for what is now today in ROME, NEW YORK
    Marines have balls? If talk like this keeps up, I might have to move this thread to the Pseudoscience section.[/quote




    REPLY: What can I say ? The meaning was clear, only a dickhead exmarine such as me could have misinterpreted it. I GUESS IT WAS A BIT TOO SUBTLE FOR ME the first time I read it. I`m still laughing, it`s that good. ...Dr.Syntax
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  22. #21  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    back on topic - i'm a bit miffed about this 22nd of november thingy : we'll have to bring our daughter's birthday bash forward then
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    back on topic - i'm a bit miffed about this 22nd of november thingy : we'll have to bring our daughter's birthday bash forward then

    REPLY: What can I say ? I did not do it. Not guilty your honor. ...Dr.Syntax

    POST SCRIPT, I REALLY AM GOING TO PUT ON HECK OF BASH. I do not expect much to happen on that day. But I am going to have a very exciting and pleasure filled day doing just exactly what I feel like doing. Sincerely, ...Dr.Syntax
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    [quote="Ophiolite"]High, Armada.

    I've scanned some of the article. It started off in passable manner. I could even tolerate the postulated link between Jupiter's orbit and the solar cycle. But then came this passage.

    Prior to December 2012 we have been drifting on the top of the pizza, never really able to see the bottom. The plate and pizza are not parallel. They are moving at different angles. We've been drifting down, down, down... and on December 21st, 2012, we will be exactly level with the crust -- forming an "x" at the Galactic Equator where galactic gravity is the strongest. After 2012, if we are still here, we will be passing through the bottom zone, viewing the Milky Way pizza from the South.

    There is a technical term for this kind of statement in science. We call it crap. Actually, the full technical name would be unmitigated, unsubstantiated, irrevocably dumb, mind-numbingly stupid crap.

    It is true there is a 'galactic equator' and it is true that we cross and re-cross this equator as we slowly orbit the galaxy. However, the precision with which the position of the galactic equator is known is such that we could not time our passage through it to much closer than 10,000 years. The whole thing is utter nonsense.

    Please note my rigorous dismissal of this idea is no way intended as any kind of attack on you, but wholly upon this ridiculous idea. I applaud you for seeking out some opinions on it and wish you well with your project.[/quote




    REPLY: PIP ! PIP ! Ophi, Crap is crap, That is all that need be said about it. I know you to be a highly intelligent person. My one big criticism of your posting style is that you ask for far too many responses, answers to questions, and such. Limit the questions you expect answers to no more than 3. I always try and stay with 1 . if I actually expect an answer. When I see any more than 3 I move on or contrive a short, snappy reply that tries to present a generalized answer to the gist of the poster`s far too many questions. I mean no unkindness to you. ...Dr.Syntax
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    question: when the year 2013 is upon us and nothing of earth-shattering importance has happened in the year before, what year will be selected for the next round of destruction of the earth + what rationale will be given for it ?
    That will be 2020. I am already working on the first of a series of best selling books entitled:

    2020 Vision: What you need to know about the coming global catastrophe
    Hmm. I'm going to write a guide for the 2015 world-ending event, to try to outcompete you.

    Apparantly, that's when our 6000 years of sinning ends, and god officially commences judgement day. I hear it'll be on a Monday...
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.syntax
    REPLY: PIP ! PIP ! Ophi, Crap is crap, That is all that need be said about it. I know you to be a highly intelligent person. My one big criticism of your posting style is that you ask for far too many responses, answers to questions, and such. Limit the questions you expect answers to no more than 3. I always try and stay with 1 . if I actually expect an answer. When I see any more than 3 I move on or contrive a short, snappy reply that tries to present a generalized answer to the gist of the poster`s far too many questions. I mean no unkindness to you. ...Dr.Syntax
    1. For the second time please learn how to operate the ****ing quote function. (Next time I lose some of the asterisks.)

    2. If I simply denounce it as crap Armada learns nothing more than my opinion. A short dissertation on the subject provides him with some facts. I know you are not overly fond of facts, but some of us like them.

    3. I didn't ask any question in my post, or expect any reply, so I am already way below your limit of three.
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    [quote="Ophiolite"]
    Quote Originally Posted by dr.syntax
    REPLY: PIP ! PIP ! Ophi, Crap is crap, That is all that need be said about it. I know you to be a highly intelligent person. My one big criticism of your posting style is that you ask for far too many responses, answers to questions, and such. Limit the questions you expect answers to no more than 3. I always try and stay with 1 . if I actually expect an answer. When I see any more than 3 I move on or contrive a short, snappy reply that tries to present a generalized answer to the gist of the poster`s far too many questions. I mean no unkindness to you. ...Dr.Syntax
    1. For the second time please learn how to operate the ****ing quote function. (Next time I lose some of the asterisks.)

    2. If I simply denounce it as crap Armada learns nothing more than my opinion. A short dissertation on the subject provides him with some facts. I know you are not overly fond of facts, but some of us like them.

    3. I didn't ask any question in my post, or expect any reply, so I am already way below your limit of three.[/quote


    REPLY: It was not in response to that posting. I saw your name here and I could not remember where the other posting was located that I was thinking about.
    So I decided at least I knew my reply would get to you and I had remembered this long list of partial quotes by me complaining about me . I think I answered the one about a red herring and I still don`t know what heck your talking about and how some " red herring" for some reason I cannot fathom had something to do with it all. How on Earth could some particular fish have anything to do with what we discussing. Now I remember asking you if you found Muslim law as somehow acceptabe. It clearly is not to me. I am never letting of any of those cockroaches tell me a goddamn thing. And you who has given me the impression you consider yourself to be scientifically minded if not a professional scientist were somehow rationalizing it all so that in some fuzzy minded way muslim law was sort OK except for certain provisions or something. You do not really believe that crap and you know it. It is not acceptable to me and most of my fellow Americans
    This Country America, is founded on certain principals and freedoms. I know a lot of them got flushed down the toilet in recent years, but I also know this country will never ever allow some muslims tell us how to live our lives.
    That is but one of the reasons those soldiers,marines, sailors,and airmen and maybe some small coast guard units I am unaware of. I did not want to leave any out who are fighting the good fight against religious fanatics. And you Brits are to be thanked by me and my fellow Americans for your help in this fight against these sick minded assholes,because that is what they are. ...Dr.Syntax
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  28. #27  
    Forum Freshman Goddard's Avatar
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    I believe astrologist should keep their eye in the sky so to speak, but why is it these people couldn't predict their own demise let alone the Earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goddard
    I believe astrologist should keep their eye in the sky so to speak, but why is it these people couldn't predict their own demise let alone the Earth.
    Is that a rhetorical question?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  30. #29  
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    Syntax you are completely off topic in this thread. Take this discussion of line or abandon it. And learn how to use the *u**ing quote function.
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    Quote Originally Posted by armada
    i completely understand your point, but i'm more concerned about the solar flares, i am of the understanding that one of these flares actually knocked out an entire city in the states not too long ago, if as predicted this cycle's solar flares are going to be worse than ever, could this not be cause for concern? i read that scientists say the suns solar flare activity has been rising these past few years.
    Possibly, but what does that have to do with 2012? If someone is expecting solar flares for 2012, chances are he didn't get that date from studying the sun, but from mythology and stories. Which is about as reliable a methodology as relying as using a dictionary to determine the outside temperature.
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNesbit
    Possibly, but what does that have to do with 2012? If someone is expecting solar flares for 2012, chances are he didn't get that date from studying the sun, but from mythology and stories. Which is about as reliable a methodology as relying as using a dictionary to determine the outside temperature.
    Not that I want to encourage the paste-eaters who think that the world will end... yet again (reference to all of the past predictions which obviously were wrong) in 2012, there is a pretty significant consensus among the scientific community that solar flare activity will spike somewhere in 2011-2012.


    http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html
    Solar activity has a regular cycle, with peaks approximately every 11 years. Near these activity peaks, solar flares can cause some interruption of satellite communications, although engineers are learning how to build electronics that are protected against most solar storms. But there is no special risk associated with 2012. The next solar maximum will occur in the 2012-2014 time frame and is predicted to be an average solar cycle, no different than previous cycles throughout history.

    http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/ask-an-...ns-and-answers
    The last solar maximum occurred in 2001, so the next one was predicted for around 2012, 11 years later. However, the most recent solar minimum was unusual, with a period of a couple of years with almost no sunspots or other indications of solar activity, so scientists now guess that the next maximum will be delayed, perhaps to 2013. However, the details of the solar cycle remain basically unpredictable.

    It's nothing out of the ordinary, but is predicted for maximum around 2011 or 2012. Either way, the 2012 phenomenon is more psychosocial, neurotic, and ignorant than it is physical in nature.
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