July 13th, 2009, 06:05 PM
.... for the sake of fun.....
How likely do you think it is that aliens have contacted the major world governments with specific instructions not to make their presence known to the public? Do you think our governments would be in a position to refuse?
Do you think the aliens might make other demands? What do you think would motivate this contact? Desire for access to our natural resources? Altruistic desire to prevent us from nuking each other? Boredom?
July 13th, 2009, 06:11 PM
What useful resources do we possess that could not be acquired from some other uninhabited planet? Or even better (since going down into a gravity well means you're gonna have to get back out of it again) from asteroids, small moons and dwarf planets?Originally Posted by kojax
July 14th, 2009, 03:43 AM
That's an interesting question, which makes me want to ask around on the Astronomy section, what kinds of resources we can anticipate finding in an asteroid.... I think I will.What useful resources do we possess that could not be acquired from some other uninhabited planet? Or even better (since going down into a gravity well means you're gonna have to get back out of it again) from asteroids, small moons and dwarf planets?
The only advantage I can think of in choosing Earth is a population of sentient beings willing to mine, package, and prepare materials before they're shipped. I bet the stock market would be totally simple to an advanced alien species, meaning they can mine our planet with zero infrastructure investment. They just need a super-computer to figure out our language and start trading. (Their seed money could come from hacking a few credit cards.)
This all presumes, of course, that the alien species will understand us. using our civilization as a grounding point, what inferior "sentient" species do we understand?
July 14th, 2009, 09:10 AM
But if we're talking about a species advanced enough to travel interstellar distances, which is an achievement centuries beyond us if even possible, then it seems unlikely that our infrastructure or markets would be of any real consequence. They could doubtlessly do far better themselves.That's an interesting question, which makes me want to ask around on the Astronomy section, what kinds of resources we can anticipate finding in an asteroid.... I think I will.What useful resources do we possess that could not be acquired from some other uninhabited planet? Or even better (since going down into a gravity well means you're gonna have to get back out of it again) from asteroids, small moons and dwarf planets?
The only advantage I can think of in choosing Earth is a population of sentient beings willing to mine, package, and prepare materials before they're shipped. I bet the stock market would be totally simple to an advanced alien species, meaning they can mine our planet with zero infrastructure investment. They just need a super-computer to figure out our language and start trading. (Their seed money could come from hacking a few credit cards.)
The moon contains basically the same resources as the Earth, ignoring the organics. And it seems unlikely that a space faring race would have much interest in oil or the like. Even if they're after something like water, it would be readily available on a low gravity moon like Titan!
July 14th, 2009, 03:26 PM
Our computer tech is only so far along. We're only barely scratching the surface in trying to make computer algorythms that can decipher things like lost languages, or animal noises. I figure once we get to the point where we can decipher Dolphin communications, we'll be in a position to understand pretty much any sentient species below ours, if we should encounter any.
I'm not so sure. Just because a society can build stuff doesn't mean you have those things with you. Low tech can sometimes be the best way to go when you're improvising with local resources.
I'm pretty sure a traveling space ship would have a computer on board, but it's hard to say what they'd have on board in terms of physical hardware. If space travel is really difficult, you've got to figure they'd send the lowest amount of mass they can.
Very true.
The moon contains basically the same resources as the Earth, ignoring the organics. And it seems unlikely that a space faring race would have much interest in oil or the like. Even if they're after something like water, it would be readily available on a low gravity moon like Titan!
I'm thinking they'd have to be after things like Uranium and Platinum that have important technological applications. And... I don't know how much more available those things are off Earth.
But what would they have to gain from remaining hidden? I think with the vast number of planets in the universe to choose from, they're more likely to visit us simply to make contact with another intelligent species instead of simply going for resources. So the odds are, they'd probably announce their arrival as widely as possible.
Don't want to disrupt our economic system. Maybe they've got a few agents on the ground using advanced computing algorithms to play the stock market, then buying whatever resources they want on the open market. It's a heck of a lot easier than mining themselves, and they don't even need to worry about coordinating the workers.
You want 1000 kg of gold? Just place an order. Tell them to ship it to a cabin in the middle of nowhere, then load it on your flying saucer, and wait till nightfall before flying away with it. Buying uranium is probably a little bit more complicated.
Can you imagine the pandemonium that would ensue? How many world governments would remain intact if the presence of aliens were a confirmed fact? Even if the aliens openly declared that they didn't want to govern us, you'd see full religious movements spring up and trying to act as their "prophets". People's uncertainty as to what this vastly more powerful culture might be planning would lead to all kinds of desperate behavior.I think with the vast number of planets in the universe to choose from, they're more likely to visit us simply to make contact with another intelligent species instead of simply going for resources. So the odds are, they'd probably announce their arrival as widely as possible.
If I am right, we should have received radio contact from intelligent life nearby us in the galaxy by now. If there is life out there as technologically advanced as we are today then they could be sending and receiving radio signals like we are. I am not sure how may candidate civilizations that comes to for radio contact but it could be several, if the conditions are right.
We are really very lucky to be alive today. Our planet is at the right temperature, it has liquid water, it has the right elements for life, and so on.
Then there are other aliens we speculate about who are way more advanced then us who can build a wormhole right outside our planet and visit us if they wanted to. Maybe they are simply studying us in secret for science or even just ignoring us!
If there really were aliens here today, working with the governments of the world behind the peoples backs, I would be quite worried actually. I think good aliens would want to be in contact with the people also, to establish understanding and trust between us.
Governments might not be so trusting and understanding when it comes to aliens and protecting their peoples and powers. Aliens would probably be seen as a threat at first. The peoples would also be afraid if they knew about the aliens.
Building trust and understanding takes time so governments may keep contact secret for our well being and safety for awhile. Eventually we should be allowed to know about the aliens. If we are never told about them then our governments may be up to no good.
Maybe radio is a primitive technology to them, and they actually have something better. Then we wouldn't hear any radio signals at all, unless they were sending them to us on purpose.
Interesting perspective. I guess I never considered the possibility of them being optimistic about us. The USA isn't very optimistic when dealing with the third world, and I figured the aliens would see the USA as very primitive and uneducated compared to their culture. But, maybe the aliens are more forgiving than we are of another culture's flaws.
If there really were aliens here today, working with the governments of the world behind the peoples backs, I would be quite worried actually. I think good aliens would want to be in contact with the people also, to establish understanding and trust between us.
But it's foolish to build trust with someone who isn't capable of genuine loyalty. Most of the human race would only pretend to be true friends, so they could get something for themselves, instead of actually being true friends.
Governments might not be so trusting and understanding when it comes to aliens and protecting their peoples and powers. Aliens would probably be seen as a threat at first. The peoples would also be afraid if they knew about the aliens.
Building trust and understanding takes time so governments may keep contact secret for our well being and safety for awhile. Eventually we should be allowed to know about the aliens. If we are never told about them then our governments may be up to no good.
.... Like I say.... I'm not very optimistic about people.
I'm no physicist, but as far as I know the kinds of radio signals we've been sending mostly fall below background noise inside of a distance on the order of tens of light years. And as we increasingly turn to the internet for communication, the Earth is going to become less and less noisy in terms of radio. If the same pattern holds for other civilisations, there's a very narrow window in both space (tens of light years) and time (about 100 years) during which we'd expect to get undirected, unintended radio communications.
I was mostly considering alien civilization on the same technological level as us today rather than a few hundred or thousand years off. If they are more advanced than us I would agree that they could have something better to communicate with each other with in privacy.
I am just guessing that if aliens were really here today taking their time to work with our government they would have to see something in us. They would probably be aliens looking to build their understanding of intelligent life, hopefully for both our goods. That would take some sort of trust on our part because they would have to be way ahead of us technologically which means they could probably destroy us all if they wanted to. Trust would take time to do and perhaps only a strong just government could do it right for us. Other aliens might just view us as primitive and watch us in secret or ignore us. There are not many reasons for aliens to be interested in our small planet other than because of us.
I think the aliens would know this ahead of time and be prepared to deal with dishonest people by not giving in to them. I do not think they will be giving us the gift of something very dangerous like infinite energy before they give us the wonders of their justice system to deal with these big dangers. I highly doubt they would ever trust any human being for quite a while with such gifts because we just might not even be able to comprehend it all yet.
I think within about twenty light years of our sun there is about 100 stars. Of those stars there are only five stars like our own sun, in age and temperature. I am not sure if their solar systems are like ours, with an earth like planet with life. I am also not sure if there are any technologically advanced civilizations like ours living there that have also sent out radio signals as communication, that will be reaching us by accident, anytime soon. Does not mean we will not hear alien radio transmissions as time goes on because we do not know what is out there and where it is technologically.
One thing to consider is that human intelligence may not be the upward limit. If they're a great deal smarter than us, then these things wouldn't be hard work for them, like they are for us.I am just guessing that if aliens were really here today taking their time to work with our government they would have to see something in us. They would probably be aliens looking to build their understanding of intelligent life, hopefully for both our goods. That would take some sort of trust on our part because they would have to be way ahead of us technologically which means they could probably destroy us all if they wanted to. Trust would take time to do and perhaps only a strong just government could do it right for us. Other aliens might just view us as primitive and watch us in secret or ignore us. There are not many reasons for aliens to be interested in our small planet other than because of us.
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