Thread: 2012

Elinement with the centre of the our galaxy in 2012. Will anything happen? Planent x (Nibiru). Fact or fiction?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_collision

Total nonsense

its not even proper science fiction

This whole thing got started because of the Mayan Calender. In December of 2012, The Mayan Calender cycles over into a new age (sort of like a millennium.) So of course, many pseudo-scientists interpret this to mean that the world will end.

Planet X came largely from a man named Zechariah Sitchin who looked at a Sumerian tablet with what looked to him like a representation of the solar system. He counted 11 planets (one was the moon) and concluded that the Sumerians had knowledge of a tenth planet "X" which they had learned about from aliens. Somehow, he deduced that planet X was going to collide with Earth in 2012.

That's really it. All the math and "astronomy" that the doomsdayers have come up with are just rationalizations for those two initial assumptions: "The world will end in 2012," and "there's a secret planet X somewhere."

Originally Posted by Finger

This whole thing got started because of the Mayan Calender. In December of 2012, The Mayan Calender cycles over into a new age (sort of like a millennium.) So of course, many pseudo-scientists interpret this to mean that the world will end.

Planet X came largely from a man named Zechariah Sitchin who looked at a Sumerian tablet with what looked to him like a representation of the solar system. He counted 11 planets (one was the moon) and concluded that the Sumerians had knowledge of a tenth planet "X" which they had learned about from aliens. Somehow, he deduced that planet X was going to collide with Earth in 2012.

That's really it. All the math and "astronomy" that the doomsdayers have come up with are just rationalizations for those two initial assumptions: "The world will end in 2012," and "there's a secret planet X somewhere."

There are only 8 planets if you exclude the hypothetical planet X. Many more if you include the dwarf planets. So any way you slice it the count is completely wrong.

Originally Posted by TheBiologista

Originally Posted by Finger

This whole thing got started because of the Mayan Calender. In December of 2012, The Mayan Calender cycles over into a new age (sort of like a millennium.) So of course, many pseudo-scientists interpret this to mean that the world will end.

Planet X came largely from a man named Zechariah Sitchin who looked at a Sumerian tablet with what looked to him like a representation of the solar system. He counted 11 planets (one was the moon) and concluded that the Sumerians had knowledge of a tenth planet "X" which they had learned about from aliens. Somehow, he deduced that planet X was going to collide with Earth in 2012.

That's really it. All the math and "astronomy" that the doomsdayers have come up with are just rationalizations for those two initial assumptions: "The world will end in 2012," and "there's a secret planet X somewhere."

There are only 8 planets if you exclude the hypothetical planet X. Many more if you include the dwarf planets. So any way you slice it the count is completely wrong.

8 planets, pluto, the moon, planet x. 11

I like the word "poppycock".

Originally Posted by TheBiologista

Originally Posted by Finger

This whole thing got started because of the Mayan Calender. In December of 2012, The Mayan Calender cycles over into a new age (sort of like a millennium.) So of course, many pseudo-scientists interpret this to mean that the world will end.

Planet X came largely from a man named Zechariah Sitchin who looked at a Sumerian tablet with what looked to him like a representation of the solar system. He counted 11 planets (one was the moon) and concluded that the Sumerians had knowledge of a tenth planet "X" which they had learned about from aliens. Somehow, he deduced that planet X was going to collide with Earth in 2012.

That's really it. All the math and "astronomy" that the doomsdayers have come up with are just rationalizations for those two initial assumptions: "The world will end in 2012," and "there's a secret planet X somewhere."

There are only 8 planets if you exclude the hypothetical planet X. Many more if you include the dwarf planets. So any way you slice it the count is completely wrong.

Maybe they included some particularly bright asteroids? I doubt their methods were sophisticated enough to discern between planets and proto-planets, or whatever Pluto has been reclassified to.

Maybe they thought one of the moons of Jupiter was a planet?

On the other hand..... you never know (...turning on my flashlight, and placing it face up under my jaw so it shines on my face...) Maybe Planet X is made of Dark Matter!!!! Maybe the Hadron Collider will create it!!! Or.... maybe it orbits the Sun at the exact same speed as Earth, same orbital pattern and everything, and it's always on the other side of the Sun!!!!

Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician

Originally Posted by TheBiologista

Originally Posted by Finger

This whole thing got started because of the Mayan Calender. In December of 2012, The Mayan Calender cycles over into a new age (sort of like a millennium.) So of course, many pseudo-scientists interpret this to mean that the world will end.

Planet X came largely from a man named Zechariah Sitchin who looked at a Sumerian tablet with what looked to him like a representation of the solar system. He counted 11 planets (one was the moon) and concluded that the Sumerians had knowledge of a tenth planet "X" which they had learned about from aliens. Somehow, he deduced that planet X was going to collide with Earth in 2012.

That's really it. All the math and "astronomy" that the doomsdayers have come up with are just rationalizations for those two initial assumptions: "The world will end in 2012," and "there's a secret planet X somewhere."

There are only 8 planets if you exclude the hypothetical planet X. Many more if you include the dwarf planets. So any way you slice it the count is completely wrong.

8 planets, pluto, the moon, planet x. 11

Once Pluto is in, so is anything comparable to Pluto. So you've got 11 + 4 at least! :P Estimates on the number of dwarf planets ranges between 40 and 200.

Originally Posted by kojax

Maybe they included some particularly bright asteroids? I doubt their methods were sophisticated enough to discern between planets and proto-planets, or whatever Pluto has been reclassified to.

Maybe they thought one of the moons of Jupiter was a planet?

Well how would they have detected asteroids or Titan or Europa if that was beyond later civilizations? The Greeks and Romans and the modern western civilisation? None of this stuff is detectable without a telescope, so none of it was reported until the 1600's and later.

Did the Mayans have telescopes? Are there any pictures of them, let alone remains of them?

Here is the tablet in question:


At first glance, it could look like a solar system, but some short research into Sumerian symbology proves otherwise. Here is the actual symbol for The Sun.

Four points enclosed in a circle with wavy lines coming from the center. The symbol on the tablet has several points and more closely resembles the symbol for "star" (left.)

So its a star, not the sun (which is shown on the right.)

But even from the context alone, the tablet is clearly not a description of the solar system or any other heavenly body. The inscriptions on the tablet read: "Dubsiga (The name of the man on the right with a distinguished connotation,) Ili-illat (the name of the tablet's owner,) his servant." So the purpose of the tablet is for the carver to declare himself the servant of Dubsiga. In that context, the star and the circles are meaningless. It could very well have just been simple decoration.

Logical fallacy #gazillion

"closely resembles the symbol for "star""

"So its a star"

The symbol in the tablet in question clearly has 6 points. The symbol for star has 8 points. This is enough to raise doubt, at least in my eyes.

Originally Posted by Scientific Maximus

Elinement with the centre of the our galaxy in 2012. Will anything happen? Planent x (Nibiru). Fact or fiction?

Zetatalk, with their magnanimous leader, Nancy Lieder, kook extraordinaire.

http://www.zetatalk.com/

Originally Posted by marcusclayman

Logical fallacy #gazillion

"closely resembles the symbol for "star""

"So its a star"

The symbol in the tablet in question clearly has 6 points. The symbol for star has 8 points. This is enough to raise doubt, at least in my eyes.

And tell me, how many wavy lines does the symbol on the tablet have? Is it enclosed in a circle? What about the context of the tablet indicates that this is a description of the solar system? How do other Sumerian artifacts corroborate it?

While I agree that Finger has a point about it (very likely) not being a genuine depiction of the solar system, I have to ask.... was there some law in Sumeria that prohibited the depicting of the sun by any means other than just the one kind of drawing? Would they chop off your hand if you drew it another way?

Originally Posted by kojax

While I agree that Finger has a point about it (very likely) not being a genuine depiction of the solar system, I have to ask.... was there some law in Sumeria that prohibited the depicting of the sun by any means other than just the one kind of drawing? Would they chop off your hand if you drew it another way?

I think Finger's point is that, if we're going to make an assumption about the intended meaning of the carving (and it's probably just decoration), the more likely meaning is as he suggests rather than the tenuous leap of "they knew about a 10th planet". It gels less well with what is known of the meaning of other such carvings aside from being contradicted by what we now know about the planets and dwarf planets of our star system.

Originally Posted by TheBiologista

Originally Posted by kojax

While I agree that Finger has a point about it (very likely) not being a genuine depiction of the solar system, I have to ask.... was there some law in Sumeria that prohibited the depicting of the sun by any means other than just the one kind of drawing? Would they chop off your hand if you drew it another way?

I think Finger's point is that, if we're going to make an assumption about the intended meaning of the carving (and it's probably just decoration), the more likely meaning is as he suggests rather than the tenuous leap of "they knew about a 10th planet". It gels less well with what is known of the meaning of other such carvings aside from being contradicted by what we now know about the planets and dwarf planets of our star system.

If that's the case, then I at least agreed with is main point.

I'm going to take out a big loan and blow it on hookers and heroin.

It's not like you have to repay loans when the planet blows up.

Originally Posted by marcusclayman

Logical fallacy #gazillion

"closely resembles the symbol for "star""

"So its a star"

The symbol in the tablet in question clearly has 6 points. The symbol for star has 8 points. This is enough to raise doubt, at least in my eyes.

Maybe they observed a supernova. How old are those sumerian tables?

in the 13th century christians believed there were nine heavenly bodies but they only knew about 5 actual planets other than earth the other celestial bodies were said to be the moon, the sun, the stars and heaven.

does it seem possible that a similar belief of a paradise like planet was held by this ancient civilization?

It WILL be the first time in 400,000 years that the Milky Way, the Earth, the Moon, AND the sun will all be in line.

There is a black hole (as we all know) in the Milky Way. While there is no confirmation on exactly what a black whole is, there are very good theory's in play. My favorite states that a black hole Is a point in which nothing exists. To bring that into perspective you need to think beyond simple mathematics into root. Mathematics cannot tell us why a tree brach sprouts leaves in some places and not in others. So remember that if you don't have anything, it's mass is null, NOT zero. Gravity has no form when there is no mass, so what you are actually seeing when you think there is a swirl of stars being sucked in, is actually a refraction... Hold a magnifying glass at an angle and look through it, and it will place everything you see at an angle. Movement of those items can be imitated simply by moving the light source.

So with that being said, you have an eclipse left. Which leaves only two possible and plausible scenarios;

1. We will have a solar eclipse that intensifies the light from the Milky Way and we have a night sky that will be visible from Times Square... or

2. The milky way does have a gravitational field which with the moon and the earth interceding the sun would create a "cosmic Sling Shot."
Let me explain. Take a glass and put the rim just under the surface of some water so that the bottom of the glass is in the air. Make sure the water is level in and outside of the cup. Do this by letting an air bubble out. The edge of the glass now represents the pull of the milky way on the outer ring of the sun. (It's only going to affect the outer ring because there will be planets in the way.) Pull straight up on the glass quickly and evenly. What you see is the outer ring of water getting drawn up, but it doesn't go too fay before it falls back to the waters surface. HOWEVER s ripple effect occurs. The outer ring collapses and the wave converges on a central point and a central splash with the combined energy of the initial wave spouts from the center and actually goes higher then the outer ring. With less gravity at the central point, and gas which weighs considerably less then water you can expect a solar flare from the center of the sun which not only shoots directly at the center of earth, but with enough inertia that it may shoot several hundred more miles beyond.

Unfortunately you are correct, a movie did just come out depicting this, I don't think that it is entirely implausible either. The effect would be very close to what the movie shows if not exact.

Originally Posted by geo.howard

2. The milky way does have a gravitational field which with the moon and the earth interceding the sun would create a "cosmic Sling Shot."
Let me explain. Take a glass and put the rim just under the surface of some water so that the bottom of the glass is in the air. Make sure the water is level in and outside of the cup. Do this by letting an air bubble out. The edge of the glass now represents the pull of the milky way on the outer ring of the sun. (It's only going to affect the outer ring because there will be planets in the way.) Pull straight up on the glass quickly and evenly. What you see is the outer ring of water getting drawn up, but it doesn't go too fay before it falls back to the waters surface. HOWEVER s ripple effect occurs. The outer ring collapses and the wave converges on a central point and a central splash with the combined energy of the initial wave spouts from the center and actually goes higher then the outer ring. With less gravity at the central point, and gas which weighs considerably less then water you can expect a solar flare from the center of the sun which not only shoots directly at the center of earth, but with enough inertia that it may shoot several hundred more miles beyond.

This is complete hogwash.

Originally Posted by geo.howard

It WILL be the first time in 400,000 years that the Milky Way, the Earth, the Moon, AND the sun will all be in line.

That's like saying I'm in line with my brain and my little toe. The Earth, moon and sun are all within the milky way, so how can they allign with it any more than usual?

The moon is always around the earth but yet we are not in total eclipse constantly lol :-D

but the milky way encompasses the sun, moon, and earth. How can, say, your brain be in line with your head when it's a part of your head (i.e. Contained by your head)

While we're at it, I'd like to know how it is relevant to have astronomical bodies alligned?

Ok, Now tell me honestly... lol You actually thought about it for a minute.

http://www.articlesbase.com/new-age-...th-914503.html

http://meade4m.com/forum/index.php?topic=416.0

http://www.halexandria.org/dward761.htm

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/sun/flares.html

There are other sites too, and several studies on each. When you put them together with the calander, and a collision, you get the BS story I posted.

I'm for option 1 personally, nothing happens, very pretyy evening though.

Originally Posted by geo.howard

Ok, Now tell me honestly... lol You actually thought about it for a minute.

I think about everything I'm presented with. Doesn't mean I believe it.

Originally Posted by geo.howard

There are other sites too, and several studies on each. When you put them together with the calander, and a collision, you get the BS story I posted.

I'm for option 1 personally, nothing happens, very pretyy evening though.

Thanks, very helpful of you to draw it out for so long when you don't believe it yourself :?

Playing the Devil's Advocate is quite fun, Drowsy, you should try it.

Neil deGrasse Tyson happens to be an expert on the subject.

Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician

Playing the Devil's Advocate is quite fun, Drowsy, you should try it.

Who? Me? I'm completely innocent, remember? 8)

I think 2012 is all just a bunch of hype. Ancient peoples built their religions and calenders around astronomy because the heavens were the perfect foundation to fix their cultures and existences to for eternity. I think the majority, if not all, 2012 theories involving destruction, war, and the like are centered around opinion, not fact. Not very good science at all.

It's a bit like saying that the world is going to end after December, because that's when the calendar ends. It will be just yet more evidence about how gullible people are, and how willing people are to buy into whatever brand of woo is sold to them.

nice woo

Hello, I saw that a few people asked some pertinent questions in this topic that have not yet been answered, so I thought I might help. I would like to see the question here answered using clear and precise scientific reasoning if at all possible. It is a topic of rather interesting and perplexing possibilities.

The subject to be more clear is based from 3500 - 5000 year old text coming out of the Sumerian culture. This is the very origin of the biblical renditions for creation, the Flood and the Tower of Bable and many others. They have clearly stated, according to some translators, that our solar system is a binary solar system. The 2nd sun is actually a brown dwarf that is on a highly ecliptical orbit that has a rotation that spans somewhere between 2160 to 3600 years, dependding upon the source. So yes it is a star to be looking for , however due to its being a brown dwarf that task is rather difficult. Anyway, The planet x portion of the story, the Sumerians call a planet , NIBIRU, is in that dwarf suns rotation.

According to many accounts, it is not likely due here for at least 800 years. However, because certain events in our history as a planet are hard to pin down , there is a chance that the Mayan calendar end date and the Sumerian Destroyer may in fact have some relevance and be connected. If it is going to be seen you can do a bit of looking on google as to where one might expect to see the approach . There is actually some coordinates for this thing out there.

It would be cool to see this looked into and seriously analyzed because with the hype that is out there and growing everyday, even if nothing is to happen universally at this time, our combined collective consciousness, all fear or negative based, will certainly mandate something will happen, not so good.

The Sumerian people had a complete and very detailed scientific knowledge of the Universe , including the precession of the equinox, and as you know the Mayan callendar is incredibly accurate scientifically speaking, not to mention mathmatically astounding. In other words these people and their cultures, were far from hunters and gatherers. On the contrary, debate could be seriously entered on if they were more advanced than we are today. In many areas of study.

It is my opinion personally, that this will not be a possible participant in any event in the near future. However, I think it foolish to excuse the Sumerian without a hard look. However, there is also the translation and to my knowlege only one "scholar/writer" has arrived at the Nibiru conclusion, that I know about, maybe 2. I don't know about you but I am not able to translate Sumerian to help out there. hehe

However, we are seeing significant brightning or heating throughout the solar system and we do seem to have increased earthquake activity and , it sure does seem like the planet has started to prepare for the pole shift as well. Do we even have ice at the poles anymore? Just kidding but you can see my point can't you? And what about the low levels in the magnetic field these days. So yes, there is enough to look into it. Nemesis is where one might look and here is an article I just saw only days ago out of Australia that truly is talking about the Nibiru expeience , although it does not know to call it Nibiru.

http://www.news.com.au/features/invi...-1225840140357

Greetings HalexandriasAngel and welcome to the forum. Please excuse me if I go straight for the jugular - let me give you an executive summary of my post: you are talking crap.

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

I would like to see the question here answered using clear and precise scientific reasoning if at all possible.

This is an excellent objective, elegantly expressed. It is unfortunate you fail utterly to deliver.

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

They have clearly stated, according to some translators, that our solar system is a binary solar system.

Do you see the contradiction that arises from the two highlighted statements? If you truly wished, or understood what is meant - in your own phrase - by clear and precise scientific reasoning, then you could not have written those words.
You might have written something like "some translators have interpreted the texts to mean that the solar system is a binary system". That would have met your own criteria.

Staying on this tack, please provide some citations for the translators who have made this claim. While you are at it can you give some indication of what proportion of translations of the Sumerian texts follow this particular interpretation? I imagine you will see why this is important.

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

If it is going to be seen you can do a bit of looking on google as to where one might expect to see the approach .

No. This is your argument. You have to provide the evidence, references and citations. We don't do your work for you.

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

There is actually some coordinates for this thing out there.

Excellent. So once again, what are they? Who provided them? On what basis were they determined? Have the calculations/methods been validated by at least one other researcher? Etc. Since you value clear precise scientific reasoning you will have no difficulty thinking of other questions that must be asked and answered regarding these coordinates.

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

It would be cool to see this looked into and seriously analyzed because with the hype that is out there and growing everyday, even if nothing is to happen universally at this time, our combined collective consciousness, all fear or negative based, will certainly mandate something will happen, not so good.

So why has every other overhyped "End of the World" scenario ended with something considerably less than a whimper? Why will this one be so different? Give me some scientific reasoning to justify your assertion.

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

The Sumerian people had a complete and very detailed scientific knowledge of the Universe , including the precession of the equinox,

So they knew about the cosmic background radiation, pulsars, black holes, special relativity and a host of other topics? No? Perhaps you should try being more precise in what you write.

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

and as you know the Mayan callendar is incredibly accurate scientifically speaking, not to mention mathmatically astounding.

No, I don't know that. Please provide some (scholarly) references that substantiate this claim.

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

In other words these people and their cultures, were far from hunters and gatherers.

Since it is recognised that agriculure was central to the Mayan culture , why would you even mention this. No one is claiming that they were hunter-gatherers. Some researchers suggest an even more complex market economy. (Dahlin, B.H. "The Remarkable Early Classic Maya Economy of Chunchucmil" Journal of Social Archaeology, Vol. 9, No. 3, 341-367 (2009))

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

On the contrary, debate could be seriously entered on if they were more advanced than we are today. In many areas of study

Specify one, only one, of the many areas in which they may have been more advanced and provide the evidence to support that contention. Please.

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

However, we are seeing significant brightning or heating throughout the solar system

The Earth is warming, largely from anthropogenic effects. Mars is warming, likely as a consequence of natural variations known to have effected it for billions of years. Pluto is not cooling as fast as expected. Nothing else that I am aware of. Where is your evidence?

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

we do seem to have increased earthquake activity and ,

No we don't. If you think we do please provide a statistical assessment (or reference to such an assessment) that demonstrates that this is the case.

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

it sure does seem like the planet has started to prepare for the pole shift as well. Do we even have ice at the poles anymore? Just kidding but you can see my point can't you? And what about the low levels in the magnetic field these days.

How does a planet 'prepare itself' for a pole shift? Why do you think, even as a joke, that there would be some connection between a pole shift and melting ice? What about the current state of the magnetic field?

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

and here is an article I just saw only days ago out of Australia that truly is talking about the Nibiru expeience , although it does not know to call it Nibiru.

http://www.news.com.au/features/invi...-1225840140357

Finally you almost redeem yourself, with the first hint of something scientific. Nemesis redux. I would be happier if the ultimate source of your find had not been the Sun newspaper.

Halexandria, I'm not attacking you. I'm not even attacking your idea especially. I am attacking the lacklustre, lackadaisical way you presented it after suggesting a clear and precise scientific reasoning was important.

Once again, welcome to the forum.

Ophiolite,

Thank you. I appreciate your most generous critique for my writing style and will try very hard to provide a more scholarly post as soon as I am able. Thank you fortaking the time to address me and once again, I appreciate it.

I am so use to posting on forums where my approach is needed to be thought provoking instead of scientific. However, I see that this is not that type of forum and that all points of reference need their points of origin. I look forward to meeting your expectations in the future.

By the way, Is there an issue with the Sun newspaper? I am unaware and would like to know about that.

Yeah, it is much more difficult, and nigh impossible, but we'd prefer to put our thoughts to rest, than provoke them in these here parts.. :b

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

By the way, Is there an issue with the Sun newspaper? I am unaware and would like to know about that.

Ths Sun is a major national British tabloid paper. It sells newspapers by focusing on scandal, celebrity and the like. Its take on scientific subjects is to exagerate, misinterpret, over simplify and generally get things wrong - but as long as the headline sells papers it doesn't matter. Consequently it is not a reliable reference.

I look forward to your future contributions. Thank you for taking my observations positively.

When life insurance companies start ending their policies and claim they've gone bankrupt, then you should start to worry. The only supposed evidence of planet X that I've seen is in ancient manuscripts which a handful of people on this planet are even qualified to read. But when has ancient literature ever done us wrong...

Some things are hidden from the public, some things are made up by the public. But if they're hidden, you won't only find a lot of content relating to the information you're looking for, you'll find credible information also that adequately denounces an official story.

Nothing about 2012 seems realistic to me at all.

Originally Posted by Ophiolite

Originally Posted by HalexandriasAngel

By the way, Is there an issue with the Sun newspaper? I am unaware and would like to know about that.

Ths Sun is a major national British tabloid paper. It sells newspapers by focusing on scandal, celebrity and the like. Its take on scientific subjects is to exagerate, misinterpret, over simplify and generally get things wrong - but as long as the headline sells papers it doesn't matter. Consequently it is not a reliable reference.

I would add that this is a criticism broadly applicable to the mainstream media and even to the popular specialist media. The reporting of science is hard to get right sometimes. The conversion of science into an easily consumable product for the general populace tends to go very wrong most of the time.

I think it is fiction. Because it has many reasons for that. I do not believe it. Any disaster will not say, i am coming so why should we believe in that?. It is totally fiction.