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Thread: Timing of Noah's Flood

  1. #1 Timing of Noah's Flood 
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    There are some people that think that the geneology of the human race given
    in the bible is a partial geneology, and this could make the timing of
    Noah's flood go back much further into history, if that is true. There are
    good reasons to think that Noah's flood goes back much further into the
    past. The archeological evidence for the history of man does go back farther
    than the bible would say, if the geneology was all there. The other reason
    is that the bible uses the word begat.
    American heritage dictionary
    Definition of begat:
    Begat is a rare form of the word beget.
    Beget: - To father, sire.
    Definition of sire - n. - a father or forefather; tr.v. to beget
    Definition of forefather, - An ancestor

    A sire used as a noun can be a forefather; the tr.v. definition is to beget.
    So,from the dictionary, begat can refer to a forefather or ancestor causing
    someone to be born. That means in the bible geneology where it says that
    someone begat someone else, it could mean that the person that begat him
    could be a forefather many generations before him. That means the geneology
    in the bible can be a partial geneology, and all of the names in the family
    trees are not listed. That could mean that the time of Adam and Eve and
    Noah's flood could be much farther back in history and would more closely
    match archeological findings about the age of man.

    Also, the Hebrew usage of the word son, can mean son, or grandson, or great
    grandson, or great great great grandson or descendant many generations
    later.
    [Example: Jesus is called the son of David. Jesus is a descendant of David
    many generations later.] If you look at the biblical account of the
    descendants of the sons of Noah, it uses the word sons, several times. Every
    where it says sons, according to Hebrew usage, it could be referring to
    descendants many generations later. That would put the time of Noah's flood
    much farther back in history and it would more closely match archeological
    findings about the age of man.

    Genesis 9:19 These [are] the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole
    earth overspread.

    Genesis 10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan,
    and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

    Genesis 10:3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

    Genesis 10:4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and
    Dodanim.

    Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their
    lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

    Genesis 10:6 And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.

    Genesis 10:7 And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and
    Raamah, and Sabtecha: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.

    Genesis 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the
    earth.

    Genesis 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said,
    Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.

    Genesis 10:10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and
    Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

    Mitochondrial DNA, is a form of DNA that gets more diversified with time.
    Studies of the mitochodrial DNA, have shown that at one time in the history
    of mankind, the human race went down to just a few families, because of some
    disaster that caused the population to go down rapidly. I saw something
    about this on the discovery channel. I think this bottleneck in the human
    population, could have been caused by Noah's flood.
    They gave an estimate of how far back this happened, but I forgot how long
    it was. [It could have been something like 80,000 years ago; I am not sure.]
    I searched on the internet for it and did find the article about it, but the
    link to it was a dead link.
    Pääbo, S., Gifford, J.A., and Wilson, A.C.: Mitochondrial DNA sequences from
    a 7000-year-old brain. Nucl. Acids Res. 16(20): 9775-9787 (1988)

    Pääbo, S., Gifford, JA, and Wilson, AC: Mitochondrial DNA sequences from a
    ... C., and Pääbo, S.: Paternal and maternal DNA lineages reveal a
    bottleneck in ...
    email.eva.mpg.de/~paabo/files/public.html [Found on Google]
    paabo@eva.mpg.de

    The guy at that email address could tell you how far back it was that the
    DNA showed that the human race went back to just a few families.
    I think that around that time might be the best guess as to how far back
    Noah's flood happened in history.


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  3. #2  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    The full article is available here.
    http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/article...bmedid=3186445

    However, this paper has nothing to do with the choke point in human population. [It is an interesting discussion of the evidence for a third maternal lineage involved in the populating of North America.]

    You are looking for data on the explosion of the volcano at Lake Toba, 73,000 years ago. This created a choke point in humanity, with the global population falling to as few as a couple of thousand individuals.


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  4. #3  
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    They were just guessing to try to match the sudden decrease in human population to the explosion of that volcano. There was a dispute about how long ago the bottleneck in human population occurred. From what I remember from the discovery channel, there were other scientists that said that they could be wrong by a factor of 2 on their estimate of the date when the population went down so dramatically. Noah's flood could have caused that decrease in human population, just as easily as any other catastrophe in the distant past.

    The Great Flood Evidence

    There is much evidence for a global flood in geology and fossils. Rubble
    drift and ossiferous fissures are but two observations that show great
    movements of water. Rubble drift shows sediments consisting of massive,
    angular unrolled meterial deposited in local pockes and catchment areas.
    These are many times full of shattered bones. Ossiferous fissures are
    found all over the surface of the world some measuring 140 to 300 feet in
    depth. These fissures were filled with debris soon after they were opened
    and this could explain why the did not close again. An examination of
    the debris in these fissures shows remains of elephant, rhinoceros,
    hippopotamus, raindeer, horse, hog and oxen. These bones must have filled
    in these fissures after death because there are no complete skeletons and
    the bones have not been rolled or weathered. The bones are cemented
    together by calcite indicating hydralic deposition.

    These deposits are all around the earth but a look at the fissures on the
    Rock of Gibraltar running 300 feet deep and are found at different
    elevations(highest one is at 100 feet). These deposits show also contain
    many different animal bones as described above and in one of them man-made
    stone implaments have been found.

    Deposits on the Island of Sicily hold a huge number of hippo bones so well
    preserved that they can be carved. More that 20 tons of these bones were
    shipped for commercial purposes. In Russia a large deposit of these bones
    contained 4500 bones of bear coming from at least 100 animals along with
    cats, hyenas, horses, boars, mannoth, rhinos, aurocheses, and deer, as
    well as insectivores, rodents, sahres, otter, martens, wolves and foxes.
    All these bones found in these fissures appear to be the product of huge
    masses of water moving at great speed.

    http://www.teachinghearts.org/dre09c...tes.html#flood


    There are some creation scientists that say that there is evidence for a worldwide sedimentary layer, indicating a flood. There are other scientists that say that this evidence doesn't exist.
    If there was a flood, the layers below that layer are all mixed up (which would explain polystrate fossils) so the layering theory used for dating below that layer would be in error.
    Also, if there was a great flood, all of the cave man evidence and evidence for early civilization would be after the flood.
    [Some scientist say that neanderthals are really modern men that had arthritis. Neanderathals don't really exist.]
    Poly strate fossils - fossils found in layers that archeological theory says they should not be, indicating a mixing of the layering by some violent event. Example: Tree trunk found in coal or pine tree pollen found in the wrong layer.
    The idea of an asteroid causing the dinosaurs to go extinct is probably incorrect because that would cause many charred and burned dinosaur skeletons, which are not found.
    The great flood could have caused the extinction.
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  5. #4  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Ghost. I am tired. Go away, study geology for three years at a reputable university. Come back and tell us why your above post is in error.
    Thank you.
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  6. #5  
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    I pretty much echo that thought. It's just old reading posts like that, the same crap from the same position of complete ignorance. It's not worth responding to because 99 times out of 100, the poster isn't interested in the facts anyway. At least I can boast that I've moved up to a position of only partial ignorance.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Ghost. I am tired. Go away, study geology for three years at a reputable university. Come back and tell us why your above post is in error.
    Thank you.
    I'd rather show you why your reply may be in error:
    They were just guessing to try to match the sudden decrease in human population to the explosion of that volcano. There was a dispute about how long ago the bottleneck in human population occurred. From what I remember from the discovery channel, there were other scientists that said that they could be wrong by a factor of 2 on their estimate of the date when the population went down so dramatically. Noah's flood could have caused that decrease in human population, just as easily as any other catastrophe in the distant past.
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  8. #7  
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    The Noachian flood myth is a stolen piece of literature. The original story existed in much older and literate cultures of the the Near East, like the Sumerians who retold it in the form of Gilgamesh. The Noachian story shows some very obvious literary evolution from the earlier story of Gilgamesh, which, in turn, shows an evolution from the earlier tale of the Atrahasis. The Atrahasis was advanced from The Deluge, and so on.

    Interestingly, the Noachian myth, like many stories in the bible, are nearly word-for-word in some places with the older Gilgamesh. The only real difference is the Jewish revisionists introduced their cult of monotheism and used The Deluge, a story already familiar with the people of the Near East, as a device for converting cult followers. This is a theme of the Christian cult: borrow and steal the mythology and stories of the cultures they seek to convert in order to create something familiar to them. Thus the gullible -the willing believers- have something their minds can cling to and continue to believe in.

    There is absolutely no evidence for any global flood. Indeed, there isn't enough water to make it happen. Moreover, the geologic record is very clear on the matter. You say, "there is much evidence for a global flood in geology and fossils," but you fail to say where this evidence resides. Nor do you cite a reference that does.

    In otherwords, you're full of it.

    Ghost, you still keep babbling about the same ignorant, under-educated nonsense you've been babbling about for the last 2-3 years. Little changes with you. An education would serve you well if you would simply seek it.

    Also, there is no such thing as a "creation scientist." Such an oxymoron doesn't exist. Some morons do who claim to be that title, but they're just seeking appeals to the very authorities they deride unsuccessfully.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    Also, there is no such thing as a "creation scientist." Such an oxymoron doesn't exist. Some morons do who claim to be that title, but they're just seeking appeals to the very authorities they deride unsuccessfully.
    I call them 'creationites'. The '-ite' suffix implies a charleton.
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  10. #9  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silylene
    I call them 'creationites'. The '-ite' suffix implies a charleton.
    Splutter. Stammer. Fumbles with safety catch. Shakes with unbridled fury.
    Ophiolite

    Disappears in the distance in search of fellow rocks: granites, rhyolites, eclogites, etc. Mumbling, we are all really hard bastards. [And none of us dance the Charle(s)ton.]
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  11. #10  
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    Ophiolite
    HAHAHA!

    I never noticed you chose an '-ite' screenname. I would have had much more fun with my post if I had ! :wink:
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