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About LinkBacksOriginally Posted by (In)Sanity
If the tungsten rails in your chips, get hit with lightning voltage, they might reciprocate, with an equal, and or greater then equal voltage.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
If the tungsten rails in your chips, get hit with lightning voltage, they might reciprocate, with an equal, and or greater then equal voltage.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
What the F*!@ are you on about? The OP was about resistors in series/parallel not a request for the content of an opium soaked dream.
Multiple resistors in Parallel, Rtot = 1/( 1/r1 + 1/r2 + 1/r3 ....)
Have a quiet read through the link below.
http://www.doctronics.co.uk/resistor.htm
Exactly what I said.What the F*!@ are you on about? The OP was about resistors in series/parallel not a request for the content of an opium soaked dream.
Multiple resistors in Parallel, Rtot = 1/( 1/r1 + 1/r2 + 1/r3 ....)
Have a quiet read through the link below.
http://www.doctronics.co.uk/resistor.htm
I work with this stuff, so I am not on a need to know basis. I am just curious where you guys live?
A glowing tungsten is not just a resistor.
You can check this with an ohm meter, and a light bulb. Check the ohms of the 100 watt bulb. Unlit. Do the math, what should the draw be?
And then check the formula, of the lit bulbs, voltage, amperage equaling the wattage and then see what the ohms are at run. Do the math.
The ohms are much higher at run.
Now if the ohms have risen you have yourself an electrically created diode. If you check out a battery you will note that the definition of a battery, was actually a chemical diode. The battery does not throw out electrons. It actually just creates a diode. And the strength of that diode is the batteries voltage.
So when you glow an element, until it repels electrons, you have created a diode, a battery. Just like a transformer does. It is this misunderstanding that kills, and causes poor designs that fail.
An elemental battery can be very powerful.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
A resistor is not a diode, nor is a battery a diode. William, you are trying my patience.
With reference to the first part of your last post;
Is this what you are gabbing on about now? if so then why not just say it
The rest of your previous post about diodes/batteries is pure Alice in wonderland.
Electrical Resistivity @ 20 ºC (microhm-cm) 5.5
Electrical Resistivity @ 227 ºC (microhm-cm) 10.5
Electrical Resistivity @ 727 ºC (microhm-cm) 24.3
Electrical Resistivity @ 1727 ºC (microhm-cm) 55.7
Electrical Resistivity @ 2727 ºC (microhm-cm) 90.4
Electrical Resistivity @ 3227 ºC (microhm-cm) 108.5
With acknowledgements to the site I borrowed this from but can't remember where I got it due to nueral disfunction linked to age.
:?
I have no idea where he's coming up with the whole diode theory. Would love to see some references, of course I know they will never show up. If I recall a semi conductor actually decreases resistance when heated. It explains the thermal runaway that often occurs when overheating a semiconductor. I don't think it applies to all types however. We of course have credible resources to fall back on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistance
A mercury rectifier uses the electrical activity and glowing surface of a mercury pool to create a very powerful diode. The same is true of a glowing element. I cannot believe you guys never heard, "never stick a knife in a toaster". No matter what. Even if you are wearing a welding gauntlet.
Yet any electrician has touched the hot wire with his pliers or screw driver, while touching the metal of the pliers or screw driver, a thousand times and nothing happens.
When I was a kid I used to be able to feel the kick when I would touch both sides of a light bulb and light it with a battery, when it was disconnected I could feel the shot sometimes. Today I do not know if I would feel it.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
If you stick a knofe in a toaster, you will likely contact an energized heating element with your knife. It has nothing to do with a diode.
Any electrician does NOT touch a hot wire with his pliers or screwdriver a thousand times while touching the metal. Only you would be so foolish. You might get away with it if you are not also touching a grounded conductor.
William, you are an accident waiting to happen.
February 25th, 2009, 03:57 PM
The production of useful work is goverened by the laws of thermodynamics,the production of useless work is unlimited. Check with W McCormick
I see he failed to provide any references to support his theory, not even any theories to support his theory
Harold I touch 120 volts all day long and it never hurts me. Never startles me. I am often doing it, and do not even know it. Even when other parts of my body are touching ground. I touch my screwdriver when it is touching hot wires all the time.
Now are you trying to tell me, someone that does this, day in and day out, that I have died from it? Or have been hurt by it?
Or are you saying you never took the time to understand what ARC is. And how it creates a power source?
A hot molten coil, simulates a mercury rectifier, when the element breaks. Which often occurs when someone sticks a knife into a toaster.
You are a slick one. You know the toaster running on 120 volts can shock and probably even kill, if you stick a knife into it. Which means that there is some other effect taking place in a toaster. Other then the source voltage.
And there is, it is ARC, (Anode, Rectified, Cathode). Basically an electrically created battery. A very powerful diode/battery. That can kill.
When an element breaks, one of the surfaces creates a liquid diode. Under that diode, you find a shortage of electrons in the material. An unnatural shortage of electrons. The surface of the molten electrode, beams rays, away from it.
For a split second the amperage from a molten rectifier is severe amperage. What ever the wire will carry.
If you look at most elements, you will note they are coiled. Now anyone that has fooled around with magnet winding wire. Knows that a coil of magnet winding wire, annealed copper wire. Creates a magnetic field as well as a low ohm element. I have never tested silver wire, however I believe even silver wire will create this effect as well.
You can demonstrate this, by winding copper into loose coils, and then energizing it with AC current, into a load, you will see the coils of wire are pushed together. Showing there is an induction field present, as well as the resistance the length of copper wire offers.
So there is a lot of real science to all this. And you really should know what I am saying before you build anything.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
Harold electricians, wet their fingers to feel 120 volts. To make sure the power is off. So they do not accidentally create an ARC.
The accident waiting to happen is calling the pot black.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
I see he failed to provide any references to support his theory, not even any theories to support his theory
Go ahead and embarrass yourself, tell everyone what you need a reference to.
If you need a reference to anything I have mentioned, you should not plug in an electric lamp. But I would be happy to demonstrate and film anything you do not believe.
Or I will find a reference to it.
Believe it or not the average fellow not college trained, has a lot of really good electrical safety tips and tricks. So although he may not know all the fancy buzz words, he has some slick procedures to protect himself.
When working with electricity, things can detonate and just disappear. With normal house current. It is just the universe we live in.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
Video links would be most welcome, so long as you stay safe William.
You do not understand a mercury rectifier? Or a mercury bomb? Or a mercury accident? You do not know that any molten surface of metal has this potential, and from experience to some extent all liquids poses this ability. Some types of welding machines only work because of this principle.
Do you see any comparable points between a molten mercury diode and a molten metal element breaking and forming a diode? Do you know if either of these exist. I am not being facetious. It seems like you do not. Or you are directing your scientific detective abilities to a prejudiced goal.
You will note that Harold has deemed his ultimate knowledge of electricity supreme and beyond reproach. In the face of real and severe accidents, that can be easily created and filmed.
Having decided his ultimate position, in the field of electricity, is beyond reproach or doubt, by the likes of a welder that learned to weld in Grumman Aero Space from the men that built the Lunar module.
He decided to shield my ignorance from lesser minds by splitting up, threads, multiple threads, I might add, all dealing with ARC and elements breaking. Just messed them up, and split them up. Caused me a lot of work to get it all straight. That does not seem like someone trying to get to the bottom of something does it?
That used to be called something very evil. It was something deemed un-American. If I was running and hiding, or lazy about getting answers or rebuttals, that would be one thing. But I am doing my job. I am showing real things and giving others looks into my world. My equipment.
Harold has doubted my oscilloscope readings. Readings that should be known by anyone that works with electricity. Without the video I made of it. Does he apologize and say wow, I was wrong that is interesting? No. He messes up more posts about it. This is why there ended up being a revolution in America. Because very stubborn people hid information about reality. Rather then to say, they didn't know.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
I'll tell you this. If you ever did that at the plant where I work, you would be fired on the spot.
Do you ever have OSHA inspections? Better read these OSHA regulations. You normally cannot work on energized equipment above 70 volts. So yes, OSHA thinks you can be killed by 120 volts.
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ARDS&p_id=9910
Examples
"1910.333(a)(1)
"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. Live parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground need not be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs."
"1910.333(b)(2)(ii)(B)
The circuits and equipment to be worked on shall be disconnected from all electric energy sources... "
Here's what Wikipedia says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock
"A low-voltage (110 to 220 V), 50 or 60-Hz AC current through the chest for a fraction of a second may induce ventricular fibrillation at currents as low as 60 mA. "
Bullshit.Now are you trying to tell me, someone that does this, day in and day out, that I have died from it? Or have been hurt by it?
Or are you saying you never took the time to understand what ARC is. And how it creates a power source?
A hot molten coil, simulates a mercury rectifier, when the element breaks. Which often occurs when someone sticks a knife into a toaster.
Well, William. I've backed up what I said. Let's see you do the same.
I don't even believe you work with electricity. No employer would allow that, and still be able to stay in business.
You're just full of it.
Video links would be most welcome, so long as you stay safe William.
I do not understand what you would like to see? Just tell me I will find a way.
It all seems very cut and dry to me. If you know about mercury rectifiers and molten surfaces creating diodes. Batteries.
What I am saying was all standard science in my day, and we learned it in American schools just like that.
But you will see. Even when I do show proof, they will have to doubt the sun is hot, before they attack modern science.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
As I've indicated before, it's all Greek to me. So I really wouldn't know what to ask for, nor would I be able to meaningfully assess anything you show me. I'll leave it to the others to request specific demonstrations, so long as they don't put your safety at risk. Just trying to move the discussion along a bit.Video links would be most welcome, so long as you stay safe William.
I do not understand what you would like to see? Just tell me I will find a way.
This is one element in the whole story, showing what happens when you break a connection from two Christmas tree lights in series, connected to a battery.
The oscilloscope reference, also earth ground, is connected to the (+) terminal on the battery. As well as one terminal from the lights.
When I close the connection, by touching the other terminal of the lights, in contact with the probe, to the (-) charged terminal of the battery, the scope shows an abundance of electrons at the probe. On an oscilloscope this is indicated by a movement downwards on the screen.
When I take the probe that is connected to one side or terminal of the lights off of the battery. You can see the scope jumps up showing the probe is now short of electrons by twelve volts. This is indicated on a non-Benjamin Franklin oscilloscope by moving upwards.
The reason this happens is ARC. When the separation is made. Electricity jumps to the light bulb terminal I am removing. It ARC's, creates a molten surface and lighted gas, on the surface of the Christmas tree light terminal.
The material underneath the surface goes very short of electrons. Until, the power is actually used up by charging the battery. That is why you often see, only an equal and opposite reaction. Because at some point your circuits weak point is found.
Add in some high voltage diodes and you can get a much different story and scenario.
http://www.Rockwelder.com/Flash/Elem...mentBreak.html
If you would like me to change something just let me know. Or show something different. Just let me know.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
I saw that video before but didn't have speakers to listen to the sound track. Yes, the oscilloscope jumped. That doesn't mean it was molten metal creating a diode, or that it had anything to do with a heater element like you claimed. It's probably inductive kick, a well recognized phenomenon. Here's a Wikipedia article about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_kick
Now, you show me your article about ARC.
If it ARC's Harold you can be killed. So could many in the plant.I'll tell you this. If you ever did that at the plant where I work, you would be fired on the spot.
Do you ever have OSHA inspections? Better read these OSHA regulations. You normally cannot work on energized equipment above 70 volts. So yes, OSHA thinks you can be killed by 120 volts.
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ARDS&p_id=9910
Examples
"1910.333(a)(1)
"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. Live parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground need not be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs."
"1910.333(b)(2)(ii)(B)
The circuits and equipment to be worked on shall be disconnected from all electric energy sources... "
Here's what Wikipedia says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock
"A low-voltage (110 to 220 V), 50 or 60-Hz AC current through the chest for a fraction of a second may induce ventricular fibrillation at currents as low as 60 mA. "
Bullshit.Now are you trying to tell me, someone that does this, day in and day out, that I have died from it? Or have been hurt by it?
Or are you saying you never took the time to understand what ARC is. And how it creates a power source?
A hot molten coil, simulates a mercury rectifier, when the element breaks. Which often occurs when someone sticks a knife into a toaster.
Well, William. I've backed up what I said. Let's see you do the same.
I don't even believe you work with electricity. No employer would allow that, and still be able to stay in business.
You're just full of it.
How much do you trust a meter, with your life? I do not. I have seen brand new expensive meters suffer from glitches. I have seen them just give weird readings. I have seen bad probes. I have seen to much from them to just trust them.
And if I do trust them, I can certainly put my damp fingers on what I trust they tell me has no electricity in it. Right?
If I can put everyone in the plant or office in jeopardy of an electrical show, complete with burnt out electrical equipment and lightning bolts, on the bases of some plastic meter, that can malfunction from a drop, by someone passing your bench, knocking it down and picking it up.
Certainly I can put my damp fingers on the circuit to check.
Next time OHSA is there just kick them in the groin for me a couple times.
A meter can kill, if there is high voltage from some other weird new electronics device. Or ignition system, contaminating the circuit. A meter can be lethal in your hand. But there are proper ways to use a meter, to avoid this.
You can touch an ignition system with your hand, you might jump or say some curse word. Or just laugh. But if you are holding onto a meter and you touch it, look out, you can get whacked to death.
So when we feel we have the power off, we also touch it. Because if it is not off, and we ARC it out, we can take out more then most would believe. Especially with HVAC equipment.
Harold I AC TIG weld. I hold an aluminum filler wire in my bare hand all day long sometimes. Since I was nine years old. The welder is putting out 90 volts AC and can fluctuate a bit up or down. I have my wet arm on the work piece.
And I do not know what AC current is? Ha-ha. Ha-ha.
I work in electrical cabinets while they are live. And we really cannot shut them down. It is more dangerous to shut them down in many cases. Because it puts you under more pressure to get them back on.
I have gotten little buzzes here and there. But to be honest I really do not even feel it most of the time.
My friends set me up one time to look over the edge of a roof, that had a pigeon zapper on it four stories up. Just for kicks. I had two ARC's follow my hands up two inches.
I can touch AC current. I do not like to incase there is some failure in the system, but at work you are going to have it happen.
I worked on and wired large HVAC rack units in Sloan Kettering, and even found that their fan relays, that they leave running all year round. Had lost one leg of the relay. And although running, were running on two legs instead of three legs.
I installed relays and controls into the large systems there. In every building in the complex in Manhattan. I get around Harold.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
That is pretty funny, because I have told you I do not have any written information about ARC, (Anode, Rectified, Cathode) in writing. Just what experts told me from their experience.
But like I said if you can figure out a MIG welder, you will believe in ARC. Because there is no other explanation for it.
The MIG welder only works while electrons hit the electrode and make it molten. To the point that, the electrode surface becomes so abundant with electrons that, it actually creates a very powerful ray back against the power supply and to the work piece. The surface becomes a rectifier.
If you do not believe this is how it works just reverse the power supply, and try to weld with it. The metal electrode just melts while creating a weak ray to the work piece. You cannot weld anything heavy with the machine while the electrode is charged (-).
You have to charge the MIG electrode with (+) power. So by making the electrode short of electrons with the power supply, you create a molten metal diode, on the surface of the electrode, that does your welding.
Without that ARC, you could sit there all day, making balls of metal with the slowly melting wire, and have them drip to the metal part. You would need a lot more power to weld like that. Maybe ten times more power.
You can ARC weld in AC, pretty well, but it is more of a surface weld. It makes the surface very hot. Not to good for penetration. But AC allows the molten electrode to create a diode.
As far as Mercury diode ARC, if you do not know that Harold, I cannot help you.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
The only thing inductive, in the circuit is the curly tungsten element in the Christmas tree light.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
William,
More wooga-wooga. Nothing to back it up.
Kick the OSHA inspector in the balls, eh? Nice. Way to back up your statements, William.
I'm putting you back on ignore. Just keep out of the electrical forum so I don't have to read your bilge.
If there is any justice in the universe you will electrocute yourself and do us all a favor.
No, no, no. I won't have this. Attack his ideas or his methods or do not attack.
So, I'm trying to understand what McCormick is saying in the first place. Is the theory that hot metal contains a charge? This whole thread appears to come from somewhere else, another thread, perhaps?
I just see a bunch of arguments going back and forth over things like whether lightbulbs are resistors when they're hot, or whether a battery might be interpreted as just a very interesting kind of diode.
I hope this isn't an over-unity thread about how to get free electricity from nowhere.
What I stated about the meter, you should know if you work with electricity. It is just common sense. You either did not know, or are willing to mislead individuals on the forum about reality. As a moderator.
There was nothing to dispute about what I said. Nothing at all. It is just common sense, if you work with electricity.
You will probably not get killed by source voltage electricity. But rather from the ARC's and ARC rays created by the ARC's.
Along with the mega voltage and amperage, created during the ARC that might make it through the branch circuits.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
It started out as a thread about calculating the resistance of 2 or more resistors in parallel. It veered way off topic and I had to split it and send the McC stuff to pseudoscience. It was just collecting too much McC misinformation.
No it's not about over unity, but McC has stated elsewhere that he thinks he can make a perpetual motion machine.
Did you or did you not state that you have touched hot wires many times? Didn't I show you that was against OSHA regulations? And didn't you then suggest kicking the OSHA inspector in the groin?
Yep, common sense.
Harold, because meters are not totally reliable. And there are so many human factors involved with using a meter. You cannot trust a meter alone.Did you or did you not state that you have touched hot wires many times? Didn't I show you that was against OSHA regulations? And didn't you then suggest kicking the OSHA inspector in the groin?
Yep, common sense.
There is often because of distance and complication of circuitry a need to rely on someone else, to turn on and off a circuit. You have to trust the other guy heard you over a radio properly. Or that he is not fooling around, or talking to someone else when he is talking to you. There are also intermittent circuits, that come on and off. Some of the big relay panels to control presses and equipment to support the big insert roller presses, are very complex. And can fool the most seasoned.
So when all is said and done, when I said "electricians test live circuits, with wetted fingers", I never said that they did not use a meter first.
You assumed that is what I meant. And to be honest after you have tested a few, that you were sure were off. And felt the little tingle. Figured out what was wrong with the meter. Or what was wrong with the device or terminal block you were testing. You realize it is always a gamble.
If you are up on a roof with puddles and ice, working on heating equipment. You throw the main emergency or service switch, open the box to make sure someone else did not jump out the emergency shut off switch. And then test it with your fingers. I hold onto something grounded, if there is such a thing. Sometimes grounds are rusted off. So when you touch the machine you are already doing my little finger test. Especially if there is ice, snow and puddles up there.
Some time ago, we had a bad batch of three phase relays come in for a certain model of AC unit. One after the other.
It could have been a combination of things. Once one model has a problem. It causes a problem to the distributors. You start to see that model of relay everywhere in the warehouse. Everyone curses it. It is on the service counter. Behind the service counter. Some guys pick it up with their order by mistake. Some of the workers pack them into other peoples orders.
The counter guy keeps reminding himself he has to order more of them.
Some of the relays are coming back, from the field, some are coming in from the manufacturer to replace the failed ones, and some are on their way back to the manufacturer, or to the garbage, once they get approval.
One leg was just not making a clean contact. Even when we got one that worked we noticed a weakness, it closed differently sometimes. A none standard ohm reading and slight voltage drop across the relay.
Our boss said jump it out finally. It seemed safer to do that, then gamble on it malfunctioning. There are still all the other safeties to take it down. But you should not let it run on two legs. Bad for the compressor. That can lead to a worse catastrophe.
And of course the center terminal on the relay also happened to be our local high leg. So we had to move that to one of the other working terminals. It is just life in a crazy world.
Today with all the basically illegal wiring done. Because of the holes in basic design. And poor standards. There is such a chaos in the basic systems. That it might be easier to just start again, rather then to try to fix them.
Add in all the poor products and make shift fixes. And you could cry. Ha-ha.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
My son and I, were doing a favor for someone. We were working on some incremental units in a Veteran's Hospital.
We had to kill the power to them. They have two sets of power to them. You have to kill two separate breakers before you can remove them from the wall safely.
I believe the basic design should have had a way to shut down power to the unit, locally. However, I ran into this myself one time. An electrician running power for the owner, of the company to my unit. Had only gotten enough money to run a single circuit, to the unit. But not to install, and very frankly could not install the proper local breaker.
I had asked for a big heavy sub panel. But that was expensive. With a sub panel I could have put any breakers I wanted local. And with one main breaker I could have shut down everything.
But back to my story. My son and I are knocking these out very quickly. I was going into the transformer room, while he would test the circuit as I threw breakers. Well, everything is going lovely.
Until about day four. I have my head under a buzzing transformer, I mean this thing is humming. I can barely hear the radio. And my son, replies. "Alright we have a 705 on the main compressor power".
I said what? He said "we have a 705 on the main compressor power".
I said what? He said "we have a 705 on the main compressor power".
I had this terrible feeling that he was just having fun, fooling around while we were doing a serious wiring job. Sure enough, he was just seeing if he could ruffle my feathers. I am trying to use all the information I have learned about the breakers already so I do not knock out someone's breathing equipment or something. And he is goofing off.
Do you know he would not move onto the fan and control circuits until, I turned on and off the compressor circuit and confirmed the 705 condition on the compressor circuit. He made me say "I am confirming the 705 on the compressor circuit".
I want to go and wake him up just to smack him in the head, right now.
I fortunately cooled down before I got back to the room where he was working. And he already had the unit out and was working on it. He was just so darned good, that he had the time and the understanding to stick a little fooling around into the day.
I still felt very secure with his work, even when he was fooling around. Because he cares. And he is very sharp. But I know from experience, that after a while, even if the fooling around does not cause anything, when something happens, the fooling around can be if nothing else very frustrating. Because you cannot say if it added to the problem.
I think a bit of fooling around is funny, and good for the soul.
The world is changing though. To give you an example. My son was singing some rap like song, in the room. And supplementing faddy for daddy. He was claiming I was a bit large.
I said son, in a hospital you don't sing rap songs while you are working. It is unprofessional. A nice head nurse walks in, and I said Mame, would you agree that singing rap songs in a hospital while performing a professional task is improper. She said, No, his music is beautiful. He should sing more.
So you see what I am up against.
I would go down the hallway, with a radio on my belt, and a bunch of stuff in my hands. My son new that I could not shut off the radio. So as I would pass the nurses station, he would say things over the radio. That I will not even repeat.
He gave me a rap name of "G ride" and I had to respond with "G ride" or else he would not answer me. I cannot take much more. If "G ride" is or means something bad, I am going to kill him.
But this is the real world of electricity today.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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