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Thread: Does the rain come down from the cloud?

  1. #1 Does the rain come down from the cloud? 
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    Does the rain come down from the cloud?

    The rain comes down from the sky, not from the cloud.

    But the hot wind and the cloud will lead to the falling down of the rain.



    The origin of the rain is from the water vapor;

    because sun-rays fall down on the earth, so that the water of seas and rivers evaporates by the sun heat;

    the vapor goes up in the sky, and the vapor particles convert into water particles because of the coldness of the atmosphere in the high altitudes,

    and with the continuation of the influence of the coldness on these particles, they change into snow particles which remain scattered in the sky,

    then when some of the water vapor again goes up in the sky, and a hot wind comes to drive it under these snow particles scattered in the sky,

    then the heat of the wind and the vapor will melt away that snow, so it will fall down as rain.

    God - be exalted – said in the Quran, 30: 48
    اللهُ الّذي يُرْسِلُ الرِّياحَ فَتُثِيرُ سَحاباً فَيَبْسُطُهُ في السّماءِ كَيْفَ يَشاءُ و يَجْعَلُهُ كِسَفاً فَتَرَى الوَدْقَ يَخْرُجُ مِنْ خِلالِهِ
    The explanation:
    (God is He Who looses the winds, and they stir up [and collect] clouds, which He spreads in the sky as He pleases, and makes them as [many] fragments, and you [man] see the [nearby and large] rain drops issue out of the midst of the [clouds] …etc.)

    The الوَدْقَ is the rain, which is nearby to the ground.

    So, God -be exalted – explained that the rain comes down from among or through the clouds; and it is not the cloud itself that comes down as rain; that is because the hot wind and the cloud will melt away some of the snow particles scattered high in the sky, so that they will fall down as rain, from among the cloud.

    God - be exalted - said also in the Quran, 24: 34
    أَ لَمْ تَرَ أنّ اللهَ يُزْجي سَحاباً ثُمَّ يُؤَلِّفُ بَيْنَهُ ثُمَّ يَجْعَلُهُ رُكاماً فَتَرَى الوَدْقَ يَخْرُجُ مِنْ خِلالِهِ
    The explanation:
    (Have you not seen how God drives the clouds, then composes them, then converts them into a heaped mass, then you see the rain issuing out of the midst of them?)


    The role of the wind:
    • The wind stirs the seas and rivers to evaporate the water, then the water vapor will rise up, then condenses, then water droplets will form, then snow crystals will form, which will stay scattered in the sky.
    • The wind drives the cloud, and moves it.

    God -be exalted – said in the Quran, 35: 9
    و اللهُ الّذي أرْسَلَ الرِّياحَ فَتُثِيرُ سَحاباً فَسُقْناهُ إلى بَلَدٍ مَيِّتٍ فَأَحْيَيْنا بِهِ الأرْضَ بَعْدَ مَوْتِها
    The explanation:
    (God is He Who looses the winds, and they stir up [and collect] clouds, which We drive to a desolate [: dead] land, and thereby quicken the land, after it is desolate [: dead] …)

    • The wind fertilizes [and impregnates] the cloud, by means of the condensation nuclei [because of the dust and smoke particles that the wind carries], and leads to formation of the cloud.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_condensation_nuclei

    This is in the Quran 15: 22
    وَأَرْسَلْنَا الرِّيَاحَ لَوَاقِحَ فَأَنزَلْنَا مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء
    The explanation:
    (And We send forth the 'impregnating' winds, and We send down water from the sky)

    The interpretation:
    The wind impregnates or fertilizes the trees; and the wind impregnates the cloud; because the wind carries some dust and smoke particles and when these collide with the snow particles scattered in the atmosphere, this will lead to warming of these snow particles causing the rain formation. [In addition, these particles will act as nuclei around which some water droplets will collect.]

    • Then when a hot wind and a new cloud come under the scattered snow; it will melt that scattered snow leading to the falling down of the rain.

    • The wind heralds the coming rain.
    A cold front is the transition zone where a cold air mass is replacing the warmer air mass. The cold air is following the warm air, and is gradually moving underneath the warmer air. As the warm air is pushed upwards it will bear the cloud over it. Often the rain will fall in a few minutes as the cold front passes. As the cold front passes, the clouds roll by and you may notice that the air temperature is cooler.

    This kind of cold air just before the rain is "a bearer of glad tidings of the coming rain", i.e. such cold moist slow moving air will herald the coming rain; so that many of the people will then anticipate the imminent coming of the rain.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...cold_front.svg

    God - be exalted - said in the Quran, 7: 57
    و هُوَ الّذي يُرْسِلُ الرِّياحَ بُشْرىً بَيْنَ يَدَيْ رَحْمَتِهِ حَتَّى إذا أَقَلَّتْ سَحاباً ثِقالاً سُقْناهُ لِبَلَدٍ مَيِّتٍ فَأنْزَلْنا بِهِ الماءَ فَأَخْرَجْنا بِهِ مِنْ كُلِّ الثّمَراتِ ...الخ
    The explanation:
    (It is He Who looses the winds bearing good-tidings before [,or heralding, the rain which is] His mercy; till, when they are charged with the heavy cloud [they bear the cloud above them], We drive it to a dead land, and therewith send down [, from the sky, rain] water, and bring forth therewith all the fruits …etc.)
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_page_3.htm#Rain



    eanassir
    http://universeandquran.t35.com


     

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    I believe you have that wrong. Usually the clouds are water vapor. Not frozen particles. There can be particles of ice in the cloud though. However they are not clouds of ice particles.

    As a low pressure system approaches a high pressure system, often a cold front. The vapor in the cloud condenses. When it condenses the vapor particles increase in size and can no longer sustain their altitude. They come down as rain. Or snow.

    Tiny particles of water in water vapor have so much surface area to volume that the slightest effect, even the heating of the cloud by the sun can keep them aloft. As soon as these bits of water vapor cool they condense, to form larger droplets, their volume to surface area ratio increases and they cannot float in the warmed cloud of water vapor.

    At night when there is no sun. It is so cold above the clouds, that the warmth from the earth keeps them aloft, and heats them.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Usually the clouds are water vapor. Not frozen particles. There can be particles of ice in the cloud though. However they are not clouds of ice particles.

    The ice particles will remain scattered in the sky at high altitudes; some of these ice particles may be found in the cirrus cloud.

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    As a low pressure system approaches a high pressure system, often a cold front. The vapor in the cloud condenses. When it condenses the vapor particles increase in size and can no longer sustain their altitude. They come down as rain. Or snow.

    The hot air and vapor of the low pressure will climb over the cold high pressure system, and so the vapor condenses as it gets up and will come down as rain water. The cold front will be lower and people feel its cold and humid nature and anticipate the rain will come.

    The cloud and the hot wind that drives it is essential to melt the scattered snow particles to cause the falling down of the rain; if hot wind is not present (like in cold countries: Russia, Canada, Turkey, Iran …etc), the rain will not come, but the snow particles will accumulate to fall as snow.

    While if the region is hot like Arabia and Africa, the hot wind will melt that scattered snow to make it some water drops that will fall and drag more water from the cloud that came under that scattered snow.

    The hot wind and the cloud should come under that scattered snow as it usually, and not above it, in order to warm it when that snow is usually above the hot wind and cloud.

    When the cloud with its driving hot wind comes under that scattered snow it exerts an additional pressure effect; because the hot wind and cloud wants to get up but prevented somewhat by that scattered snow which will be squeezed by that cloud and will melt and come down as rain from through the cloud.



    Sincerely,

    eanassir
    http://universeandquran.t35.com

     

  5. #4  
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    Does this forum have a cemetery?

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    Convectional rainfall is most commonly found in places with warmer climates:

    • The ground or water in lakes or seas is warmed by the sun, throughout the day.
    • The air above the land becomes heated.
    • This makes the air less dense, so it rises.
    • As the air rises it cools.
    • Cool air can not hold as much water vapour as warmer air, when the air becomes too cold for the amount of water it holds condensation occurs.
    • These drops of condensation form into clouds, gradually becoming tall thunderstorm clouds, called cumulonimbus; which will melt some of the snow scattered in the atmosphere above them, and this in turn will cause the coalescence of water drops in the cloud, and may thus cause the precipitation of a huge downpour.

    God – be glorified – said in the Quran 13: 12-13
    هُوَ الَّذِي يُرِيكُمُ الْبَرْقَ خَوْفًا وَطَمَعًا وَيُنْشِئُ السَّحَابَ الثِّقَالَ . وَيُسَبِّحُ الرَّعْدُ بِحَمْدِهِ وَالْمَلاَئِكَةُ مِنْ خِيفَتِهِ وَيُرْسِلُ الصَّوَاعِقَ فَيُصِيبُ بِهَا مَن يَشَاء وَهُمْ يُجَادِلُونَ فِي اللّهِ وَهُوَ شَدِيدُ الْمِحَالِ
    The explanation:
    (It is He Who shows you the lightning, for fear and hope, and produces the heavy clouds.

    The [sound of the] thunder celebrates His praise as do angels, for fear of Him. He sends the thunderbolt to smite therewith whom He will;

    yet they dispute about God, the while He is Mighty in interference. [He interferes between the disbeliever and his mind, so that such a disbeliever will work against his own advantage, then later on will start to blame himself.] )

    So God – be glorified – explained here that the cloud that is heavy with water is liable, more than others, to produce the lightning, the thunder and thunderbolts.
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_page_3.htm#Rain


    eanassir
    http://universeandquran.t35.com
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Masters Degree samcdkey's Avatar
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    Nassir:

    Why are you learning about rain from the Qur'an?
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    Quote Originally Posted by samcdkey
    Nassir:

    Why are you learning about rain from the Qur'an?

    Smacdkey:
    The subject of rain is not that easy; it is full of mystery; don't think it is completely understood.

    In the Quran, it is not the rain descends from the cloud, but the water comes down from the sky.

    The cloud will cause the rain to fall, but it is not directly from the cloud; the cloud is essential for the rain precipitation; the wind drives or drifts the cloud to some far desolate land, and by means of the cloud the rain will be sent down.

    • When I made search in the Quran, I found: a large number of ayat or revelations say, like 13: 17
    أَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء
    [there is a large number of ayat in this form of expression]
    The explanation: ([God] has sent down [rain] water from the sky)

    or 15: 22
    فَأَنزَلْنَا مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء
    [there are many ayat in this form of expression]
    The explanation: (We send down water from the sky),

    but He did not say: We send down the rain from the cloud.

    With the exception of two mysterious or ambiguous ayat, in which He did not say the rain comes from the cloud, but used other expressions, indicating the water cycle and the drinking water and the relation of the stormy winds and the difference of pressure may be.

    But why is that? Because if you ask the Arab and the non-Arab, the child and the old man, he will say: the rain comes down from the cloud.

    The snow scattered in the atmosphere, especially in the high altitudes; and when the cloud and the hot wind comes under that snow, it will melt it and will come down through the cloud causing more water to coalesce and rain will fall.
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_page_3.htm#Rain



    eanassir
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  9. #8  
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    And what did you understand about the rain from the Quran that was not available to you from those who have scientifically studied it?
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  10. #9  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    Quote Originally Posted by samcdkey
    Nassir:

    Why are you learning about rain from the Qur'an?

    Smacdkey:
    The subject of rain is not that easy; it is full of mystery; don't think it is completely understood.

    In the Quran, it is not the rain descends from the cloud, but the water comes down from the sky.

    The cloud will cause the rain to fall, but it is not directly from the cloud; the cloud is essential for the rain precipitation; the wind drives or drifts the cloud to some far desolate land, and by means of the cloud the rain will be sent down.

    • When I made search in the Quran, I found: a large number of ayat or revelations say, like 13: 17
    أَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء
    [there is a large number of ayat in this form of expression]
    The explanation: ([God] has sent down [rain] water from the sky)

    or 15: 22
    فَأَنزَلْنَا مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء
    [there are many ayat in this form of expression]
    The explanation: (We send down water from the sky),

    but He did not say: We send down the rain from the cloud.

    With the exception of two mysterious or ambiguous ayat, in which He did not say the rain comes from the cloud, but used other expressions, indicating the water cycle and the drinking water and the relation of the stormy winds and the difference of pressure may be.

    But why is that? Because if you ask the Arab and the non-Arab, the child and the old man, he will say: the rain comes down from the cloud.

    The snow scattered in the atmosphere, especially in the high altitudes; and when the cloud and the hot wind comes under that snow, it will melt it and will come down through the cloud causing more water to coalesce and rain will fall.
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_page_3.htm#Rain



    eanassir
    http://universeandquran.t35.com
    As has been the case in several other threads you initiated your translations are so vague as to be unhelpful and not reliable. the phrase "water comes down from the sky" in no way invalidates modern climatic sciences. IF I am not mistaken all precipitation come from some altitude in the sky.

    The as the hot air rises It begins to cool this lowers its capacity to hold water vapor. Once the air cools past a certain temperature It can no longer hold all the vapor and some begins to condense out, thus forming clouds. If the vapor continues to condense out the water precipitates ans rain sleet snow hail etc...
    Once the air cools past a certain point it will begin to descend and be replaced by more rising warm air. This is the convection current. Snow is just vapor that forms as ice instead of water and will fall as snow if the surface temperatures are low enough for the crystals to descend without melting.

    If there were a blanket of suspended ice crystals in the atmosphere there would be a continual haze all across the globe an never any bright sunny days.

    If this turns out like the previous thread you started do not be surprised when it is moved to Pseudoscience.
     

  11. #10  
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    in this case i'll follow my knee-jerk reaction and bat this thread all the way to pseudoscience
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

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