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Thread: The mistake of astronomers about comets.

  1. #1 The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    The mistake of Astronomers about comets

    In the year 1705 the Astronomer Halley brought about his theory about the comet, and since then Astronomers started to orbit around Halley and his theory.

    He discovered a comet, which was called to his name, and said it was similar to the description of a comet that had come 76 years before. He said mostly this is the same comet that has come now, and it is expected to come 76 years later; because it orbits around the sun.

    Then some astronomers investigated the light spectrum, and found Na, Oxygen and Hydrogen, and some combinations of such elements in the tail of the comets, and they said another theory that the comet includes water in the form of ice and dust:
    a dirty ice in the inside of the comet head or body!

    Then others said there is a jet propulsion phenomenon of the water vapor that makes the tail more prominent!

    I say: this is very surprising how people believe about something, even though it is very strange; only because it is told to them by a famous scientist; while if someone else tells them a more reasonable idea and gives them more logical explanation, they will refuse to accept it.

    Now, Halley and other scientists said: it is most probably, and most likely; but others who came after them took it as most certainly and absolutely.

    After the discovery of Kuiper belt, some scientists said that comets come from the Kuiper belt.


    What is the comet?
    •The comet is a fire mass thrown out of the sun, following some local solar explosions, resulting in the hurling or shooting of such sparks or fire masses.

    God – be exalted – said in the Quran, 77: 32-34
    إنّها تَرْمِي بِشَرَرٍ كَالقَصْرِ . كَأنّهُ جِمالَتٌ صُفْرٌ . وَيْلٌ يَوْمَئذٍ لِلمُكَذِّبِينَ .
    The explanation:
    (It [: Hell] shoots sparks like the castle.
    As it might be yellow thick ropes [of ships.]
    Woe, on that day, to the deniers [of the Judgment Day.])

    The interpretation:
    >> Hell is the sun,
    >> (shoots sparks like the castle) means: the size of each one of these sparks which Hell or the sun throws out in the space is like the size of one of some large constructed palaces or castles; and its sparks, in fact, are the comets.

    For this reason God -be exalted – said كَأنّهُ جِمالَتٌ صُفْرٌ i.e. (As it might be yellow thick ropes [of ships.]); i.e. like the yellow stays of ships. God – be exalted – simulated the long tails of comets to the [long thick yellow] ropes of the ship.

    • The comet does not orbit the Sun, but goes on wandering about in the space.
    • They are oblong objects, not spherical like the planets and moons, and they do not rotate around themselves, neither do they rotate around the Sun, but they move along wandering about in the space.
    • They are relatively small objects, and will get colder by time, and their heads may then become a group of hot rocks.
    • They are more numerous than what one may think, but most of them are hiding and invisible; because of their relatively small volumes and their particular sort of movement.
    • The tail follows the head of the comet, being attracted to it by gravity. The tail does not propel the comet, and there is no jet propulsion; on the contrary, sometimes the tail is in front of the head. The tail direction is always away from the sun.
    • The comet is very hot and flaming; its tail may include water vapor, but there is no ice in the comet.
    • The comet has an affinity to the cold and freezing regions of the Earth (and other planets), and has repulsion with the hot objects like the Sun.
    • When a comet falls on the ground, it will melt the stone and dig in the surface to be buried under the ground; this is in comparison with the meteorite which when falls, will remain above the ground. Usually, the falling comet will lead to the formation of a crater. Its falling will cause burns, storms and quaking of the earth, and will destroy a wide area.
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_page_3.htm#Comets

    • Life did not come to the Earth embedded in the comets, but in the meteorites; because comets are flaming objects, and fire kills the living cells.

    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_...son_Meteorite_


    eanassir.
    http://universeandquran.t35.com


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  3. #2 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    I say: this is very surprising how people believe about something, even though it is very strange; only because it is told to them by a famous scientist; while if someone else tells them a more reasonable idea and gives them more logical explanation, they will refuse to accept it.
    I say: this is very surprising how people believe about something, even though it is very strange; only because it is told to them by a sacred book; while if someone else tells them a more reasonable idea and gives them more logical explanation, they will refuse to accept it.

    you see ? i only had to change 2 words to change nonsense into sense


    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    The paths of comets can be followed with telescopes so we know about their orbits. Halley's comet is a prime example of following a predicted orbit, so appearing when we expect it.

    Spectrums taken from comets tell us their make up and their temperatures. We know they contain materials which could have contributed to life beginning on Earth. We know they are cold bodies, often hundreds of degrees below zero. As they come closer to the Sun, water ice, vapours and gases thaw and stream out behind the comet because of what is known as the solar wind (high speed particles, etc from the Sun).

    The tail always points away from the Sun because of this, whether the comet is going inwards or outwards. The tail is seen only because of a distance of many millions of miles. There is so little material there much of the time that you could pass through it some distance from the head of the comet without knowing it was there. Comets break up over time as they lose material which has been holding them together.

    Comets that come too close to the Sun are swallowed by the Sun. Comets come from perturbations in the Kuiper belt and the Oort cloud.

    Comet and meteor impacts, if the original mass and speed were sufficient will cause craters, like dropping a stone into sand. Large enough impacts can generate great heat and so cause a firestorm. Or if it falls into the ocean, turn billions of tons of water into super-heated steam.

    The Sun does not release "sparks" though rarely a solar prominence might release some material. Are you aware that a space craft entered a comet a few years back and sent back significant data on it?

    When Mohammad made up the quran, having stolen a lot of stuff from the bible and other holy books, he used the poor knowledge of the people of his time to put it together. what passes for science in it is a millennium and a half out of date, so useless to modern man.
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  5. #4 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    •The comet is a fire mass thrown out of the sun, following some local solar explosions, resulting in the hurling or shooting of such sparks or fire masses.
    Nonsense! The satellite Giotto visited Halley's comet and did not find anything like fire or sparks. You are also implying that the scientific results you quote may be contradictory, but they all fit in the same coherent picture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    The paths of comets can be followed with telescopes so we know about their orbits. Halley's comet is a prime example of following a predicted orbit, so appearing when we expect it.

    There is a large number of comets, more than one may imagine; some of them may appear and be observed by telescope, but you cannot observe all comets, or watch them wherever they go.

    Because of their misconception that comets orbit around the sun, they have committed many mistakes: because this has become some dogmatic thing to them: so that an Italian astronomer observed a comet and said that it will only return after 2000 or 3000 years; I say this is wrong: because comets do not orbit the sun, but they go about roaming in the space without any orbit; and because he saw it moving in almost a straight or about straight line, he said it will only return (if it returns) after such long period of time.

    Therefore, how can you observe all comets and their orbits by the telescope!!?

    While about the comet of Haley: there are so many comets in the space appearing every now and then; then it is almost another comet that they see every time and think it is the same: Haley observed his comet, and thought (according to some written and old description) that it is the same one (which he did not see; because it was 76 years before);

    Then another astronomer was anticipating and trying hard to observe also about 76 following the observation of Halley, when he glimpsed a comet and said this is Halley's Comet.

    While in fact there are a large number of comets in the space; and most of such comets do not appear every time, but it may happen that some of them become near or become visible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    When Mohammad made up the quran, having stolen a lot of stuff from the bible and other holy books, he used the poor knowledge of the people of his time to put it together. what passes for science in it is a millennium and a half out of date, so useless to modern man.

    Prophet Mohammed did not make up the Quran; but the Quran is the glorious word of God revealed to him by the angel Gabriel. There is nothing, in the Bible, about comets and a large number of subjects included in the Quran, but are not found in the Bible.

    With some open-mind, man may find in the Quran a large number of revelations related to the comets.
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_page_3.htm#Comets


    By God's will, I shall - in my next reply - come to the other points in your reply
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    ..., but you cannot observe all comets, or watch them wherever they go.

    ...

    Therefore, how can you observe all comets and their orbits by the telescope!!?

    While about the comet of Haley: there are so many comets in the space appearing every now and then; then it is almost another comet that they see every time and think it is the same: Haley observed his comet, and thought (according to some written and old description) that it is the same one (which he did not see; because it was 76 years before);

    Then another astronomer was anticipating and trying hard to observe also about 76 following the observation of Halley, when he glimpsed a comet and said this is Halley's Comet.
    You cannot observe all comets all the time. This is not necessary. Following the fundamental celestial mechanics founded by Kepler, you can derive the orbit (speed, eccentricity, tilt of orbital plane to ecliptic), because even in your standards comets should be affected by the sun's gravity. With a series of observations you can easily derive all these parameters and describe the orbit of each comet that is observed. Hence, you can make predictions on future positions of comets.

    With regard to Halley's comet, not only it's appearance was predicted. The re-discovered comet also had exactly the orbital parameters as the one that appeared before, i.e. it was on the same orbit. So, all measurable properties were the same again - as predicted - which makes it certain beyond reasonable doubt that it is the same object. So, the scientific results are much more powerful than what you claim to have extracted from the Quran, because it can make verifiable predictions that can be tested.

    For a glimpse on the mid 18th century knowledge about comets and its orbits you might want to have look at the Atlas coelestis from 1742.
    http://www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/doppelm...ages/ac_26.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    We know they contain materials which could have contributed to life beginning on Earth.

    This is something debatable, and there is no certainty about this; but meteorites have been seen to contain many amino acids essential for life: like the Murchison Meteorite.
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_...son_Meteorite_


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    We know they are cold bodies, often hundreds of degrees below zero.

    There is no certainty about this, and there is some mixing between comets and asteroids which are inert and cold objects, in comparison to comets which are very hot and flaming.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    As they come closer to the Sun, water ice, vapours and gases thaw and stream out behind the comet

    This is the strange theory of the dirty ice!!! included in the comet.
    So why is the ice imprisoned inside the comet other than the ice will cover the comet from outside?
    And why doesn't the ice finish and the comet depleted of its ice, particularly after the emission of the alleged water vapor to form the tail?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Comets break up over time as they lose material which has been holding them together.

    Then how do some of them say: such comet will return after 70 years and others after some hundred years while others after 2 or 3 thousand years!!?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Comets come from perturbations in the Kuiper belt and the Oort cloud.

    This is the other theory of the comets coming from this region in the periphery of the solar system; so what are such perturbations that bring about the comets?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Comet and meteor impacts, if the original mass and speed were sufficient will cause craters, like dropping a stone into sand.

    In case of meteorites (: the rocks reaching the earth surface), they or their pieces will be found on the ground; while in case of comets: you will find only a crater with flattened bottom but without the object that caused such a crater; because the comet will dig and bury under the ground; like:
    A. Comet of the Eastern American Beach
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_...American_Beach

    B. The Comet of Tunguska in Siberia
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_...et_of_Tunguska

    C. The Comet of Arizona
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_...met_of_Arizona


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    The Sun does not release "sparks"

    We cannot assert this; because the sun is a tremendous object in relation to the comet which in comparison is only some minute object, and not every comet can observed as it is hurled out of the sun.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Are you aware that a space craft entered a comet a few years back and sent back significant data on it?

    The samples of the deep impact have been examined, and astronomers were puzzled as to their analysis results; and said that comets and asteroids may be similar. It means they might have impacted an asteroid covered by ice, and not a comet in fact.
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_page_3.htm#Comets


    eanassir
    http://universeandquran.t35.com
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  9. #8 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    •The comet is a fire mass thrown out of the sun, following some local solar explosions, resulting in the hurling or shooting of such sparks or fire masses.
    Nonsense! The satellite Giotto visited Halley's comet and did not find anything like fire or sparks. You are also implying that the scientific results you quote may be contradictory, but they all fit in the same coherent picture.

    I did not say about sparks in the comet, but the comet is a fire mass hurled out of the sun.

    And how can you explain the brilliancy of the comet more than other objects like the asteroid or meteorite; see here the Comet of Haley:
    http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/obj...objectid=26428

    http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/obj...objectid=14290
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  10. #9 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    I did not say about sparks in the comet, but the comet is a fire mass emitted out of the sun.
    the hallmark of pseudoscience : when challenged, move the goalposts and retreat to an area of untestability where you can no longer be challenged

    the sun is mostly hydrogen, and anything emitted from the sun will not solidify into anything resembling the ice-rock combination that makes a comet - it will just float away as solar wind

    what else do you think happens to solar flares ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  11. #10 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    I did not say about sparks in the comet, but the comet is a fire mass emitted out of the sun.
    the sun is mostly hydrogen, and anything emitted from the sun will not solidify into anything resembling the ice-rock combination that makes a comet - it will just float away as solar wind

    Wrong. The sun includes all elements but in gaseous form [this has been demonstrated by the light spectrum analysis]; but of course the hydrogen is prevailing there.

    If some mass separates from the sun [following some local solar explosions], it will get colder by time; and this is why the comet has its tail composed of hot gases attracted to the main body or head of the comet.

    The comet is not "an ice-rock combination" as you expressed it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    You cannot observe all comets all the time.
    I said this only in reply of Cyberia who said: "The paths of comets can be followed with telescopes so we know about their orbits."

    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    With a series of observations you can easily derive all these parameters and describe the orbit of each comet that is observed. Hence, you can make predictions on future positions of comets.
    I said comets are very much numerous, and the mistake concerning these comets can easily happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    With regard to Halley's comet, not only it's appearance was predicted. The re-discovered comet also had exactly the orbital parameters as the one that appeared before, i.e. it was on the same orbit. So, all measurable properties were the same again - as predicted - which makes it certain beyond reasonable doubt that it is the same object.
    Many comets may take this orbit or another similar or near to it, and this cannot be an exclusive evidence.
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  13. #12 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    the sun is mostly hydrogen, ...
    Wrong. The sun includes all elements but in gaseous form [this has been demonstrated by the light spectrum analysis]; but of course the hydrogen is prevailing there.
    you're splitting hairs - in atom percentage the sun is 99.9% hydrogen and helium, all the rest are mere traces

    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    The comet is not "an ice-rock combination" as you expressed it.
    and your evidence for this statement would be ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  14. #13 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    and your evidence for this statement would be ?

    The samples of the deep impact have been examined, and astronomers were puzzled as to their analysis results:

    • They found that the comet includes some crystalline silicate which needs some high temperature for their formation, contrary to their alleged origin in the Kipper belt.

    "Silicates line up in neat crystal structures only when they are warmed to 1,300 degrees Fahrenheit - temperatures reached at around the orbit of Mercury - and then cooled."
    "How do you do that and then how do you put that stuff into a comet that forms out by Pluto?" Dr. Carey M. Lisse said."

    • Also their analysis did not confirm any solid ice inside the comet.
    Observations of the Deep Impact collision confirmed that the comet is mostly empty space. The outer layers of Tempel 1 are "unbelievably fragile, less strong than a snow bank," said Michael A'Hearn, the mission's principal investigator.
    "There is no indication we got down to any solid ice."
    • Moreover, they discovered the comet not so solid and compacted, but fluffy and porous:
    "The comet, about five miles long and three miles wide, is fluffy and porous, with about 75 percent of it just empty space, Dr. A'Hearn said."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/07/science/07comet.html

    We say:
    1- The origin of the comet is from the sun; it is a fire mass roaming in the space, and has an affinity to fall on the frozen and cold areas like Siberia, the North of Canada and the North and South polar regions.
    2- The comet does not include ice, whether dirty or clean; because of its origin and being very hot object.
    3- The tail is a collection of hot gases attracted to the body of the comet by gravity.


    eanassir
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  15. #14 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir

    • They found that the comet includes some crystalline silicate which needs some high temperature for their formation, contrary to their alleged origin in the Kipper belt.
    This is not a contradiction, because it is known that the comets are affected by the solar radiation whenever they move through the aphel of their orbits. This clearly is evidence that the comets have passed the sun already a couple of times.

    Another proof that comets follow individual orbits are the meteor showers like the leonids and taurids. These paths of increased interplanetary particle density are the remnants of the comet material that is sputtered and evaporated away each time it approaches the sun.

    So, unless you start to provide some REAL evidence for your claim, I will move this thread to the pseudoscience section. And remember: Questioning one theory does not prove another. Show us some evidence that comets originate from the sun and that they are made of fire. BTW: What happened to your claim that comets are just passing through interstellar space randomly?
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  16. #15 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    So, unless you start to provide some REAL evidence for your claim, I will move this thread to the pseudoscience section.

    Every time, you and the isotope, threaten me that you will move this or that thread. Unless you disprove every idea I have displayed or else the defect is from you.
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  17. #16 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    So, unless you start to provide some REAL evidence for your claim, I will move this thread to the pseudoscience section.

    Every time, you and the isotope, threaten me that you will move this or that thread. Unless you disprove every idea I have displayed or else the defect is from you.
    any reason why we should bother trying to disprove every single utterance of yours, when it's clear to any educated person that your posts are absolute nonsense from start to finish ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  18. #17 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir


    Unless you disprove every idea I have displayed or else the defect is from you.
    On the contrary. Since it is you who are making the extraordinary claims, any burden of proof is yours.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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  19. #18 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    So, unless you start to provide some REAL evidence for your claim, I will move this thread to the pseudoscience section.

    Every time, you and the isotope, threaten me that you will move this or that thread. Unless you disprove every idea I have displayed or else the defect is from you.
    any reason why we should bother trying to disprove every single utterance of yours, when it's clear to any educated person that your posts are absolute nonsense from start to finish ?
    Isotope, I think you are not that science pertaining.
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  20. #19 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    Every time, you and the isotope, threaten me that you will move this or that thread. Unless you disprove every idea I have displayed or else the defect is from you.
    Okay, here is one claim from me. I say, cows can fly. In fact, they fly around in flocks hunting birds. But only if you are not watching. I know this, because I have dreamt it. So disprove this. Since you cannot do that, does it mean my claim is true?
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  21. #20 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    Isotope, I think you are not that science pertaining.
    my name is NOT isotope, nincompoop !
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  22. #21 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    Every time, you and the isotope, threaten me that you will move this or that thread. Unless you disprove every idea I have displayed or else the defect is from you.
    Okay, here is one claim from me. I say, cows can fly. In fact, they fly around in flocks hunting birds. But only if you are not watching. I know this, because I have dreamt it. So disprove this. Since you cannot do that, does it mean my claim is true?

    So now you are mocking me Mr. Dishmaster; ok, cow flew in the hurricanes.
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  23. #22 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    Isotope, I think you are not that science pertaining.
    my name is NOT isotope, nincompoop !
    So your name is NOT isotope, nincompoop !

    However, your politeness is more than your science.
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  24. #23 Re: The mistake of astronomers about comets. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    So now you are mocking me Mr. Dishmaster; ok, cow flew in the hurricanes.
    :? You don't understand anything. I am not mocking you. It was just an example to demonstrate that the one who claims something has to prove it in order to be taken seriously. It is not on the others to disprove it. This example also tells you that even ridiculous claims that are apparently nonsense can sometimes not be disproven. This is why science requires proof from the one who makes the claim. So, this is, what everybody wants from you. If you can't, you cannot expect anyone to believe you.
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    eanassir. Comets do not orbit the sun in the traditional sense but generally have orbits from somewhere past the outer planets to the inner solar system. only "close in" where they can warm up do they change from meteors/asteroids to comets.

    Halley's comet comes back every 76 years on schedule. Even over decades, we get few "big comets" which are noticeable from Earth. Do you think we get a different one comes exactly every 76 years and follows the same path?

    We know Mohammad was illiterate and that after he married a rich widow, he paid someone to read all the holy books (bible, torah, etc) to him. Why was this? Mohammad did no miracles. There is nothing in the quran that could not have been written by a fairly well educated man of Mohammad's time. The whole of islam relies on the honesty of one man, that he did not make it all up. The first quran did not appear till a century after his death.

    I read the link and it is awful. It belongs in the kiddy's book section. No educated person here is going to believe any of it.
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    eanassir. We can get spectrums of comets when they heat up. We can tell their make up. We know they release certain gases when they warm up, like CO2 which is ice below -79.C .

    In 1895, we found helium on the sun even before we found it on Earth because of it's spectrum from a hot body. We have found very distant brown dwarf stars which are just a few hundred centigrade. Why do you think we cannot know all about comets in 2008?

    When you say "no certainty", this means "I do not like this idea because it contradicts the quran so it must be wrong". Science does not work like that.

    What became comets formed with the early solar system. The asteroid Ceres has more fresh water on it than Earth does. The Moon has ice on it. Mars had lots of water on it at one time and may still have water, and other planets and moons have water in some form on them or under the surface. Why do you think that no water was included when comets were made? Yes, it will deplete over time. Comets do eventually break up and vanish.

    We can measure comets orbits or parts of their orbit and work it out from that. Halley worked out his comet in 1705 and we have come a little way since then in technology. He realised that the comets of 1531, 1607 and 1682 were the same comet and predicted it's return in 1758. Modern techniques tell us it has been returning since (at least) 240 BC.

    Perturbations come about because the Kuiper belt and the Oort cloud are not solid bodies but are made up of moving objects which interact with each other. Occasionally one will get thrown out and head towards the inner solar system and form a stable orbit, so continue returning.

    In 1908, something which some people assume may have been a comet, exploded above a forest in Tunguska, flattening trees for miles. It left no crater because it did not reach the Earth.

    Comets are usually ice and other materials. They rarely leave craters because so few of them make it to Earth, with many literally falling apart under the heat of entry into Earth's atmosphere. What leaves craters is nickel and iron meteors which survive entry, and bury themselves in the ground.

    The sun has been studied for centuries with telescopes. We even sent the SOHO satellite in close orbit of the sun. Again, you are merely saying whaat you wish is true than what you have learned.

    Tell all the lies you want to try and make the quran look true but don't make it up about serious scientific works. If an asteroid has ice on it, it WILL melt off and vanish as it hits the atmosphere and the asteroid's temperature reaches thousands of degrees centigrade (ice melts and turns to steam at over 100.C)

    All you would rather have us not know about the quran:


    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
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    eanassir. The sun contains all elements as the oceans contain all elements. Take a bucket of seawater and there may be atoms of gold in it. Even of uranium. But you are not going to put a bucket into the sea and pull out a bucket full of gold. The same with the sun. The sun has nuclei (not atoms at that temperature) of heavier elements but they are one part in billions compared to hydrogen. As MarnixR said, all you get is a super heated gas which drifts apart, so the solar wind which equals just a few fast moving hydrogen atoms per cubic centimeter at Earth's orbit. No lumps of anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Halley's comet comes back every 76 years on schedule. Even over decades, we get few "big comets" which are noticeable from Earth. Do you think we get a different one comes exactly every 76 years and follows the same path?

    I said there are many many comets; and even Halley's comet came - as do they allege - somewhat different and not exactly as expected. Neither did Halley see his comet before his time, nor the astronomers who came after him saw the comet that Halley had seen; and some comets may follow similar or some close path.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    We know Mohammad was illiterate and that after he married a rich widow, he paid someone to read all the holy books (bible, torah, etc) to him. Why was this? Mohammad did no miracles. There is nothing in the quran that could not have been written by a fairly well educated man of Mohammad's time. The whole of islam relies on the honesty of one man, that he did not make it all up. The first quran did not appear till a century after his death.
    you have been preoccupied by some anti-Quran propaganda, in the school and the newspapers and education; that is to distort the true picture of the prophet and the Quran; in order to impede the Quran: the word of God and its advance in your communities.

    We know Mohammad was illiterate and that after he married a rich widow,
    [true]
    he paid someone to read all the holy books (bible, torah, etc) to him.
    [false: The bible was in Hebrew and not translated yet into any other language; Mohammed was illiterate: did not read or write Arabic; how will he understand Hebrew?]

    Why was this? Mohammad did no miracles.
    [The only miracle of Prophet Mohammed was the Quran, which is a miracle from eloquence of language, scientific miracle, telling of the forefuture, and including many ayat that even Prophet Mohammed himself did not their meaning: as he heard it from the angel, he said them as they are without knowing their meaning.
    The reason that he was not given a material miracle like the staff of Moses; because such miracles will go away with their time, and moreover when peopel deny such miracles they will be destroyed, while God wanted to guide them or some or their sons will convert, and seeing the past nations disbelieved the material miracles of their prophets.]

    There is nothing in the quran that could not have been written by a fairly well educated man of Mohammad's time.
    [Not correct; I ask you one simple question: What is the benefit of the clothes that man wears? and I am waiting your answer for such a simple question]

    The whole of islam relies on the honesty of one man, that he did not make it all up.
    [Of course this is essential: the honesty of the prophet: all prophets including Moses, Jesus and Mohammed and the rest of the apostles and prophets.]

    The first quran did not appear till a century after his death.
    [Wrong: the Quran was written according to the instruction of Prophet Mohammed; he told them such ayat write them here in this part of that chapter and so on.
    Then directly after his death, they started to collect the Quran, and about 15 years or so in the caliphate of Othman they wrote 4 copies and distributed them to the main capital cities in the surrounding countries.
    Moreover, the Quran is a concise book [not like the extensively large Bible] and the Quran can be known by heart like the poem that you know by heart; and till nowadays there are thousands (may reach millions: I don't know the exact figure, who knwo the Quran by heart: some of them are non-Arab, and evenso they know the Quran by heart without knowing its meaning. So that if your read any part of the Quran and read one missing or added word, then there will be many to correct it for you.]

    eanassir
    http://universeandquran.t35.com
    http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
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    eanassir. Rocks in the outer reaches of the solar system collide. This can happen with combined speeds of maybe 100,000 mph. Iron melts, even vapourises in such collisions. What survives quickly cools, but it has been "melted".

    Have you proved any of your ideas? Not that we've noticed. Pointing to a 1400 year old book of myths is not evidence that we can accept here.
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    eanassir. Comets do not come along every day. Naked eye comets are about one a year and come in different parts of the sky, in different orbits. The chance of two comets in the same year in exactly the same part of the sky is non-existent for even once let alone every 76 years over a few thousand years. You seem to think astronomers are stupid and that what Halley found out 303 years ago, modern instruments in 2008 are no better.

    I have listened to no anti-quran propaganda. I have read about the quran and about Mohammad.

    The NT was in Greek. What part of "Mohammad paid other people to read the bible to him" do you not understand? Ever heard of translators? How do you think the Romans read the bible over two centuries before Mohammad? They did not read Hebrew or Greek.

    The quran is not as badly written as the bible, but that is because the bible was by many different authors over centuries whereas the quran was by only one author. Reasonably educated non-believers can look at the quran and see it's many mistakes. It is only perfect to people like yourself who are unwilling to question it. Tell me about the talking ants. Scientists think they communicate by scents but the quran says they have vocal cords and can talk.

    Moses did not exist. The story is fiction. It never happened. Just a bible lie, carried across into the quran.

    If you want me to comment on something in the quran, you are going to have to give me all of it so I know the context it is written in.

    Show me evidence that Mohammad ordered the first quran. I have found that religious people tend to make things up when cornered.

    Some people have memorised Shakespeare's plays. So? Seems like a waste of time to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eanassir
    Not correct; I ask you one simple question: What is the benefit of the clothes that man wears? and I am waiting your answer for such a simple question
    The simple answer? Allah sent down to us clothing to cover our shame, and(clothing) for beauty and clothing that guards (against evil), that is the best.

    The other simple answer - the primary function of clothing is to protect us from the environment and to shield us from excessive, distracting sexual provocation. (Wouldn't you like to be a bonobo for just a week?)

    Hello, eanassir, if you want to fight the scientists you have to do it with their words and their data. It won't work with comets. The Quoran is wrong.
    Your interpretation of the Quoran is wrong. :?
    You're wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    eanassir. Rocks in the outer reaches of the solar system collide. This can happen with combined speeds of maybe 100,000 mph. Iron melts, even vapourises in such collisions. What survives quickly cools, but it has been "melted".

    Have you proved any of your ideas? Not that we've noticed. Pointing to a 1400 year old book of myths is not evidence that we can accept here.

    Leave all this now, [In next replies I may answer it] and now answer my question which is very simple, even to a primary school pupil: From what do clothes and dresses protect us? in few words only.
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    This is an ASTROPHYSICS SCIENCE forum. You are free to post these questions in the Religion or Philosophy sections. Stop it or this thread will be moved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    This is an ASTROPHYSICS SCIENCE forum. You are free to post these questions in the Religion or Philosophy sections. Stop it or this thread will be moved.

    Dishmaster, this is a science point though.

    He said something about Mohammed invented the Quran; and I asked him this question which is related to science of course.

    What do clothes protect you from?
    And even the primary school pupil can answer and say:
    "The clothes protect us from the heat and coldness."

    But the Quran said the clothes protect you from the heat; and it did not say protect you from the coldness.

    This is very simple; if it is Mohammed that invented the Quran, he will say like anyone else: "The clothes protect you from the heat and coldness."

    But the Quran says as in the aya 16: 81
    وَجَعَلَ لَكُمْ سَرَابِيلَ تَقِيكُمُ الْحَرَّ وَسَرَابِيلَ تَقِيكُم بَأْسَكُمْ
    The explanation:
    ( [God] has made for you garments to protect you from heat, and coats [of mail] to protect you from your violence.)


    So the coats [of mail] will [ward off them or] protect them from shells, bullets, arrows and swords.

    And the garments will [ward off them or] protect them from the heat.

    This is because the heat comes from outside and the garment will be some sort of isolation that will ward off the heat from them. While the coldness does not come from outside, but it is the body heat that will be lost.

    But if He said: will ward off the coldness from you: this will be wrong; because the clothes do not ward off the coldness, but only will keep them warm: clothes will prevent the body heat from being lost to the outside of the body.

    Therefore, this simple example is sufficient to prove the truthfulness of Prophet Mohammed and the authenticity of the Glorious Quran of God.
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    and pray tell, what has this got to do with comets ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    and pray tell, what has this got to do with comets ?

    You have the right here; but they are saying many things not related to comets, while you did not say such a thing to them.
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    The whole discussion seems pointless. All arguments have been exchanged. Eanassir, you still do not understand that science does not mean to write or talk about natural phenomena. Science is the METHODOLOGY of how to gain knowledge. The basic principle is to test statements with reality and empirical verification. Pure recitation and interpretation of scriptures is not science unless it is backed up with empirical tests. Since you do not seem to understand this and I do not expect any change on this, this thread is moved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    eanassir. We can get spectrums of comets when they heat up. We can tell their make up. We know they release certain gases when they warm up, like CO2 which is ice below -79.C .
    And who said the spectrum study is not good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    In 1895, we found helium on the sun even before we found it on Earth because of it's spectrum from a hot body. We have found very distant brown dwarf stars which are just a few hundred centigrade.
    Of course scientists have discovered a lot of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Why do you think we cannot know all about comets in 2008?
    Here, I say: Yes they don't know all about comets in 2008!
    Composition of a Comet Poses a Puzzle for Scientists
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/07/science/07comet.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Why do you think that no water was included when comets were made?
    Who said no water in the comet: it may be in the form of water vapor, but there is ice in the comet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Perturbations come about because the Kuiper belt and the Oort cloud are not solid bodies but are made up of moving objects which interact with each other. Occasionally one will get thrown out and head towards the inner solar system and form a stable orbit, so continue returning.
    Not convincing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    In 1908, something which some people assume may have been a comet, exploded above a forest in Tunguska, flattening trees for miles. It left no crater because it did not reach the Earth.
    Lake Cheko may be the crater that later on was flooded with water.
    http://universeandquran.t35.com/new_...et_of_Tunguska

    http://www.livescience.com/php/multi...ity+of+Bologna

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Comets are usually ice and other materials. They rarely leave craters because so few of them make it to Earth, with many literally falling apart under the heat of entry into Earth's atmosphere. What leaves craters is nickel and iron meteors which survive entry, and bury themselves in the ground.
    Comets may include water vapor in the tail, but no ice or dirty ice in the comet. The falling comet will usually leave a crater or multiple craters if it is composed of multiple masses, and will melt the stone and rock to bury inside the earth; while the meteorites will usually stay on the surface, and found as such; the nickle and iron buried inside the earth are almost due to the comet which some part of the sun and includes many materials that are also present in the sun.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Tell all the lies you want to try and make the quran look true
    The Quran is true like the sun in the sky, but you don't want to believe it.

    eanassir
    http://universeandquran.t35.com
    http://man-after-death.t35.com
    http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    The whole discussion seems pointless. All arguments have been exchanged. Eanassir, you still do not understand that science does not mean to write or talk about natural phenomena. Science is the METHODOLOGY of how to gain knowledge. The basic principle is to test statements with reality and empirical verification. Pure recitation and interpretation of scriptures is not science unless it is backed up with empirical tests. Since you do not seem to understand this and I do not expect any change on this, this thread is moved.

    Now and only now you are at comfort.
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