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Thread: superluminal aether

  1. #1 superluminal aether 
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    Hi,

    I've been thinking over spacetime, relativity and kant's categories where spacetime is seen to be a intuition and have come to the tentative conclusion that concepts neither curve nor slow. The universe works through energy interactions and if light seems to curve in spacetime then it is due to causal interactions - observed or not. To this end I have tried to reinvision the historic aether (http://www.ejaos.net/aether.gif) and have written a unreviewed paper using weak permittivity and permeability of space to weakly suggest a falsifiable method to the hypothesis (http://www.ejaos.net/paper.html). The paper is a bit out there so I thought this pesudoscience section would probably be the place to start asking for criticism.

    Thanks in advance.


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    Forum Freshman Yevaud's Avatar
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    I do have to say, you've started to lose me with the concept "Superluminal Aether."


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    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    ejaos, I must applaud your humbleness in posting to the Pseudoscience sub-forum. But I'd add that I think it's likely to be a right decision. I base that not so much on the math of your linked paper, but on the citations to Kirlian photography and Desmarquet. I'm familiar with both and both are equally fictional.

    I borrowed the following quote from the Skeptics Dictionary, but I have the cited text somewhere as well.

    Living things...are moist. When the electricity enters the living object, it produces an area of gas ionization around the photographed object, assuming moisture is present on the object. This moisture is transferred from the subject to the emulsion surface of the photographic film and causes an alternation of the electric charge pattern on the film. If a photograph is taken in a vacuum, where no ionized gas is present, no Kirlian image appears. If the Kirlian image were due to some paranormal fundamental living energy field, it should not disappear in a simple vacuum (Hines 2003).
    With regard to Desmarquet, I'll offer the following review:

    In just the first six pages, Desmarquet makes several fallacious comments and un-testable, but pseudoscientific, appeals to the reader's intellect. He might as well state that there exists in his garage a dragon and that it cannot be disproved because he can give a reason for every test conceived: invisible, weightless, non-corporeal, etc. To those that have read it, I'm borrowing Dr. Sagan's analogy in Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.

    Desmarquet relies heavily on pseudoscience to make his point right from the beginning. There's a dialog between he and Thao where she points out that Desmarquet arrived at a "parallel universe" through a "warp" such as that which exists at the Bermuda Triangle.

    It should be noted that the so-called Bermuda Triangle has never been demonstrated to be anything more than a region of increased ship/airplane traffic due to its geography: warm climate, high population among the Caribbean islands, historically important agricultural center, tourism, etc. Statistically, there is no more significance of catastrophic loss of ships, planes, and people than any other region of the world when the level of traffic is considered. This, however, is lost to significance junkies who only see a large number of "unexplained" losses and cling to the stories told by those who love a good mystery.

    The Bermuda Triangle anecdote is Desmarquet's first fallacious statement.

    But his convenient use of "parallel universes" and "warps" to them is a pseudoscientific attempt at appealing to the un-testable. This is the dragon in his garage.

    The Parallel Universe anecdote is Desmarquet's first pseudoscientific appeal to the un-testable.

    Before even arriving at page 6, Desmarquet says that Thao informs him that he is in a world where "time has stopped" and the people there (some for as long as 15,000 years) don't age and their bodies don't rot. Moreover, the people that Thao has to kill who are approaching he and Desmarquet, and are have been there 15,000 years, apparently don't have language facilities but utter "guttural sounds." Perhaps Desmarquet is under the impression that 15,000 years ago, people on Earth were cave men and without language or culture and were "stuck" this way upon entering the "warp" to the "parallel universe."

    This is a fallacious assumption since we have an archaeological record that demonstrates that not only were H. sapiens capable of language, they apparently lived in villages and some creative abilities. In addition, these people had art. Moreover, one would not be presumptuous to assume that they would have developed this culture and technology in the 15,000 years that they were away from their home universe.

    The a priori assumption that people didn't have enough culture to speak 15,000 years ago is Desmarquet's second fallacious statement.

    The notion that time can simply "stop" is Desmarquet's second pseudoscientific appeal to the un-testable.

    And that is only before page 6! The rest of the book continues on the same grain. They travel "several times faster than the speed of light," etc.

    But not a shred of evidence to any of it. That leaves only a few possibilities:

    1) Desmarquet is telling the truth and the events did occur as he retold them.
    2) Desmarquet is telling the truth as he believes it, and the events did not occur at all.
    3) Desmarquet is telling the truth as he believes it, and some of the events occurred.
    4) Desmarquet is lying.

    I think we can rule out number 1 based solely on the Bermuda Triangle statement. The Bermuda Triangle is not a mystery and there is nothing more mysterious about it than most other places ships go. But I can see where there would be an argument against my position on that, since it's human nature to be a 'significance junkie' and be impressed with numbers. Otherwise, politicians wouldn't attempt to appeal to voters with them, ad agencies wouldn't live and breath them, and baseball would be boring.

    I also think we can dismiss number 4, though not quite as readily as number 1. To tell a story this detailed and say it's true, you have to believe some part of it. If not, you must really think the rest of the world is more gullible than even P.T. Barnum did.

    That leaves 2 and 3. If it's 3, then perhaps Desmarquet had an experience that seemed mystical to him, but occurred right her on solid Earth. There are numerous recorded instances in both contemporary times as well as in ancient history in which people were duped into believing that they "passed into another world." These types of events usually occur after the participant partakes in rituals of repetition, physical stress, and/or ingestion of chemical agent. For some, these events have been so real, so vivid, and so "enlightening," they believed them to be religious experiences. And they probably were religious. If not with some actual deity, then by some stimulation of the alleged "god module" of the brain.

    But number 2 is my bet. I think Desmarquet started his fantasy as a fiction but then "went native." He came to believe that he was a part of something "bigger than himself." Something grandiose. This is where he satisfies that need for fulfillment and achievement of status that is present in us all, particularly in those that claim not to covet it. In short, he's delusional.

    Consider this passage (p. 148):

    ‘Man, like a piece of rock, is made of matter, but, by neutralising the cold magnetic force by raising certain high frequency vibrations, we become ‘weightless’. Then, in order to move and direct our movement, we introduce vibrations of a different frequency. As you can see, the apparatus that accomplishes this is for us quite simple. This same principle was used by the builders of the pyramids of Mu, Atlantis and Egypt.
    Pure bunk. "Neutralising the cold magnetic force by raising certain high frequency vibrations" is nothing but pseudoscientific gibberish. It sounds scientific, but only to the undereducated. Vibrations are present in matter, but their frequency doesn't affect their "weight." Raising vibrations to higher frequencies doesn't negate the attraction that the mass of the given bit of matter has on the mass of other matter. Indeed, the methods by which monumental architecture was built in Mesoamerica or Northern Africa (several thousand years and even more thousand miles apart, I might add) are relatively well known and understood. There was no "levitation" as Desmarquet suggests. It wasn't needed.

    But the most significant bit of information that Desmarquet cites in that passage is the mythical city of Atlantis and the fictional city of Mu. The former is mostly a modern myth, not even an ancient one. Plato invented it for his dialogs Critias and Timaeus when he criticized the state of Athens for its incursions against the Persians. It was not until Ignatius Donnelly wrote Atlantis: the Antediluvian World in 1882 that Atlantis actually gained any popularity.

    Mu, however, is an entirely fictional city that was created in the mind of “Colonel” James Churchward. He stated that Mu was a highly advanced civilization that existed on a continent in the Pacific Ocean, which sank after the "explosion" of "gas pockets," leaving only Hawaii, Samoa, Tahiti, and Easter Island. When Mu sank, massive worldwide earthquakes caused all civilization to collapse into savagery. Not surprisingly, the good "colonel" provides not a shred of evidence, only his "word" that he translated correctly the stone tablets that told the tale; the same tablets that have never been seen by anyone except the good "colonel."

    His word from 1924 doesn't stand up to even the most rudimentary of scientific examinations today. The islands he mentioned are created by well-understood volcanic process that involves "hot spots" under the crust and plate tectonics. If a continent ever existed in the region, it would be extremely obvious and quite visible to magnetometer examinations of the sort that have occurred extensively in the region he suggested.

    So Desmarquet is piggybacking the fictions of at least two sources independent of him: Plato and Churchwood. That alone, validates numbers 2 and 3 above.

    And we haven't even discussed the nonsense about the world exploding due to man's poor stewardship of the planet. Such grandiose delusions have been associated with UFO nutters for over 50 years. Indeed, Heaven's Gate and the Raelians adapted this theme within their own "manifestos."

    Now, I realize that is a review of Desmarquet's work and not your own, but I honestly get a headache trying to do math. I'm a little concerned that you didn't cite Feynman, however, since a couple of your diagrams look like Feynman diagrams of time:



    In his lectures about space/time, Feynman discusses light cones and the analogy of a particle in time. Interesting stuff, but I'm afraid a migraine is preventing me from dwelling on it too hard.

    References

    Carl Sagan (1996) A Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, New York: Random House

    Desmarquet, Michel (1931), "Thiaoouba Prophecy", Australia: Arafura Publishing

    Feynman, R.P.; R.B. Leighton, M. Sands (1963). The Feynman Lectures on Physics, vol. I. Reading, MA: Addison-Wesley

    Hines, Terence. Pseudoscience and the Paranormal, 2nd ed. (Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Books, 2003).
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevaud
    I do have to say, you've started to lose me with the concept "Superluminal Aether."
    Superluminal as in faster than light and aether as in substance for the propagation of light. If you have a clearer question I'll do my best to answer it. My website is deserved pseudoscience at the moment (no clear expected results) so I am just looking for feedback to help me see if the ideas could develop into anything useful.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    ejaos, I must applaud your humbleness in posting to the Pseudoscience sub-forum. But I'd add that I think it's likely to be a right decision. I base that not so much on the math of your linked paper, but on the citations to Kirlian photography and Desmarquet. I'm familiar with both and both are equally fictional.
    Hey skinwalker thanks for replying so extensively. I'm not going to be as extensive as you because I agree with most of what you say except about the absoluteness of your views on Kirlian photography and Desmarquet. Let me start with Kirlian photography.

    Living things...are moist. When the electricity enters the living object, it produces an area of gas ionization around the photographed object, assuming moisture is present on the object. This moisture is transferred from the subject to the emulsion surface of the photographic film and causes an alternation of the electric charge pattern on the film. If a photograph is taken in a vacuum, where no ionized gas is present, no Kirlian image appears. If the Kirlian image were due to some paranormal fundamental living energy field, it should not disappear in a simple vacuum (Hines 2003).
    I do agree with this sceptical stance almost entirely it's just I don't currently think the standard explanations (moisture, pressure, skin resistance) do account for the whole phenomenon. I would go on to try and justify the vacuum effect but I think at this point that would be trying to run before I can walk.

    With regard to Desmarquet, I'll offer the following review: [snip]
    Again I agree almost entirely with your well thought out logical critique of Desmarquet's work but I'm still going to withhold judgement of all four possibilities since I don't know what actually happened. Choosing any of those logical four possibilities would only hold emotional content based on the evidence so far (I don't think he contradicts himself) and besides that I have to much respect for Kant's work to start believing in stuff either way.


    I'm a little concerned that you didn't cite Feynman, however, since a couple of your diagrams look like Feynman diagrams of time:
    I've got the Feynman lectures in physics proudly sitting my room here and think he is a great teacher but I didn't see any real reason to cite him as light cones are more of a Einstein thing if anything. Thanks for the reference though I'll be sure to check it out again.

    Interesting stuff, but I'm afraid a migraine is preventing me from dwelling on it too hard.
    I'm sorry to hear about your migraine, I hope it wasn't from reading me that brought it on.

    Be well.

    --
    Edward.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Freshman Yevaud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejaos
    I do have to say, you've started to lose me with the concept "Superluminal Aether."
    Uh yeah. I meant "lose me," as in "ok, whatever you say." Not as in "lack of comprehension."

    That being said, could you explain concisely what, precisely, you mean by this. I went to the links you provided, but don't quite see it. Sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinWalker
    It should be noted that the so-called Bermuda Triangle has never been demonstrated to be anything more than a region of increased ship/airplane traffic due to its geography: warm climate, high population among the Caribbean islands, historically important agricultural center, tourism, etc. Statistically, there is no more significance of catastrophic loss of ships, planes, and people than any other region of the world when the level of traffic is considered. This, however, is lost to significance junkies who only see a large number of "unexplained" losses and cling to the stories told by those who love a good mystery.

    The Bermuda Triangle anecdote is Desmarquet's first fallacious statement.

    Before even arriving at page 6, Desmarquet says that Thao informs him that he is in a world where "time has stopped" and the people there (some for as long as 15,000 years) don't age and their bodies don't rot. Moreover, the people that Thao has to kill who are approaching he and Desmarquet, and are have been there 15,000 years, apparently don't have language facilities but utter "guttural sounds." Perhaps Desmarquet is under the impression that 15,000 years ago, people on Earth were cave men and without language or culture and were "stuck" this way upon entering the "warp" to the "parallel universe."

    This is a fallacious assumption since we have an archaeological record that demonstrates that not only were H. sapiens capable of language, they apparently lived in villages and some creative abilities. In addition, these people had art. Moreover, one would not be presumptuous to assume that they would have developed this culture and technology in the 15,000 years that they were away from their home universe.

    The Bermuda Triangle has earned a reputation beacause of the unusual things that have been reported in it's area, not necessarily the amount of things that happen there. The strange things that take place cannot be said to happen anywhere else.

    Anyway, what i really wanted to point out, is that appantently, from the tone of your quote, is that you expect Desmarquet to be able to understand the primitive language of the 'cave-men', or of course, you might have expected them to speak English! I actually had to laugh when i read that - becasue to someone like Desmarquet, who speaks eloquent French and sophisticated English, the 15,000 year old 'cave-man' speech must have sounded like guttural noises.

    I also think that you and the rest of the scientific community wrote him off very quickly. Just because you can't see it dosen't mean it isn't real. Have you ever heard of anti-particles?

    Yes, he can't prove half the things in his story, does that mean it isn't true? You couldn't have imagined half the things he explained, yet does that mean it can never happen? How do you think people invent things? By imagining things that don't even exist!

    Even though he does not try to prove anything, which would be fruitless anyway, because if you can't even imagine something happening, it's not gonna happen. period. But he does offer this little piece of nerve-shattering information. Is it true? Did this happen? We are a sick people...

    ‘If certain of the leaders who read your book don ‘t believe you, or doubt what is written, challenge them to explain the disappearance of billions of ‘needles’ put into orbit around Earth[1] several years ago. '-Taken from Thiaoouba Prophecy, Michel Desmarquet

    and by people - i mean scientists
    you don't know me, so don't pretend to.
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  9. #8  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    He's a flake. A kook. A crackpot. Perhaps he's a conman.

    But if he says his book is anything but poorly written fiction, he's a liar.
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