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Thread: Space-Station doesn't orbit, "how could it?"

  1. #1 Space-Station doesn't orbit, "how could it?" 
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    This is the line that hooked a generation to sink lower then previous one.

    "The ISS free-falls as it orbits the Earth. If there were no forces acting on the ISS, it would travel in a straight line away from the Earth. Because the Earth pulls the ISS towards it and is traveling 7900 meters per second (26,000 feet per second) parallel to the Earth's surface, the ISS moves around the Earth in a circle. Astronauts in the ISS appear to be floating, but it is more correct to say they are in "free fall."

    http://ksnn.larc.nasa.gov/webtext.cfm?unit=float

    The Question:

    When you drive your car on your city roads (on the planes) the atmosphere is level to this surface you're driving on, only parallel 300 km up. You know that your car is moving forward because you've got your foot on the gas pedal, but if you take your foot off it your car begins to slow down and finally comes to a stop, so, "how does the ISS or Shuttle who are on the same flat surface plane in regards to the atmosphere be traveling this so-called orbit?"

    The gases that layer up one on top of the other (atmosphere) are held by a force, that force is called gravity, if we on Earth had no gravity our cars would take longer to slow-down because there would be no friction, the air would be the only assistance to that slow-down. So, since the Shuttle sits on these gases held down by that force called gravity it too will slow-down, granted, it will take longer for there is no air to assist in that deceleration. But the question still remains, "how does the Shuttle achieve orbit without propulsion?"

    And because the atmosphere is level and parallel to your everyday rural areas of your neighbor-hood. The Shuttle would be sitting on an exact horizontal plane such as the spaces of your own surroundings, there would be no way for the Shuttle to go forward without propulsion. Think of it in this way, if you lay a ball on the ground will this ball start falling around the round Earth? Not my ball, so, if the same ball is taken directly over-head of that same spot and laid on the atmosphere will that ball start falling around the round Earth and achieve what we've come to believe is orbit?

    Maybe this link will help with a visual, picture the Space-Shuttle sitting at 250 km, now look to ground zero, see how flat the ground is? That's how flat the atmosphere is up there following the flat ground below.

    http://ds9.ssl.berkeley.edu/LWS_GEMS...3/emrad510.jpg


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  3. #2  
    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    Dear Newcastle

    Welcome to the forums.

    From this, and your other post on the helium balloons, it would appear that you are not taking into account the forward momentum of the orbiting bodies. It is this that, combined with the pull of the earth's gravity, creates the free fall orbit that we see.

    It is a matter of vectors and (thanks Newton) calculus to see how the two work together, but it can be done, and there are some fine physicists and mathematicians who can take you through the steps of seeing, therefore, what the instantaneous acceleration of an orbiting body would be.

    Regards

    shanks


     

  4. #3  
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    Think of it this way, Newcastle. If you throw a ball away from you, it falls with a curve until it hits the ground. Now, imagine you are just above the atmosphere and you throw the ball. It would fall with a curve into the atmosphere and onto the ground. But, if you throw it at just the right speed, the curve that the ball falls with could equal exactly the curve of the earth. There is no air resistence in space, so what happens? It orbits, i.e. is in perpetual free-fall. In reality, because the Earth is not a perfect sphere the orbit would degenerate until it eventually does fall into the atmosphere. One thing to remember though, is that the gravitational pull of the Earth lessens by an inverse square relation, so the further from the Earth you get, the less strong the pull of gravity becomes and the less hard you have to throw the ball for it to remain in free-fall. The movement of the ball has to be relative to the centre of gravity of the Earth only, so if you go up just far enough and throw the ball just hard enough, the speed the ball orbits at could match exactly the rotational speed of the earth and so the ball would appear to hang motionless in space. This only works directly over the equator though. This is called a geo-stationary orbit.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrior

    Dear Newcastle

    Welcome to the forums.
    Thanks shanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrior
    From this, and your other post on the helium balloons, it would appear that you are not taking into account the forward momentum of the orbiting bodies. It is this that, combined with the pull of the earth's gravity, creates the free fall orbit that we see.
    Free fall? But the atmosphere is level and parallel to the ground, and since the ISS doesn't enter through the atmosphere its not falling but rather stationed on that atmospheric blanket..
    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrior
    It is a matter of vectors and (thanks Newton) calculus to see how the two work together, but it can be done, and there are some fine physicists and mathematicians who can take you through the steps of seeing, therefore, what the instantaneous acceleration of an orbiting body would be.
    I'm sure there are but their theories wouldn't stand a chance with my truth.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Think of it this way, Newcastle. If you throw a ball away from you, it falls with a curve until it hits the ground.
    That's true its called gravity, GOD created the Earth above it.
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Now, imagine you are just above the atmosphere and you throw the ball. It would fall with a curve into the atmosphere and onto the ground. But, if you throw it at just the right speed, the curve that the ball falls with could equal exactly the curve of the earth.
    I can't imagine I'm above the atmosphere because I would fall to/on the atmosphere, so I'll imagine I'm on the Atmosphere. If I throw a ball in space it would fall on the atmosphere but not to the ground for the atmosphere would prevent the ball to fall like it prevents the ISS to fall. And no-one can throw a ball that far that it goes around the Earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    There is no air resistence in space, so what happens? It orbits, i.e. is in perpetual free-fall. In reality, because the Earth is not a perfect sphere the orbit would degenerate until it eventually does fall into the atmosphere. One thing to remember though,
    How is orbit possible for the atmosphere is level and parallel to the ground of the Earth? If I sit a ball down on the ground it won't start moving around the round Earth, the same for when I sit this ball on the atmosphere, because the atmosphere must respect the level of the ground parallel to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    is that the gravitational pull of the Earth lessens by an inverse square relation, so the further from the Earth you get, the less strong the pull of gravity becomes and the less hard you have to throw the ball for it to remain in free-fall.
    Why does gravity lessen? It doesn't!!!!! And the reason why gravity remains the same is because those gases at the uppermost level are so light that only this force of gravity being the same can keep them from being dispersed.
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    The movement of the ball has to be relative to the centre of gravity of the Earth only, so if you go up just far enough and throw the ball just hard enough, the speed the ball orbits at could match exactly the rotational speed of the earth and so the ball would appear to hang motionless in space. This only works directly over the equator though. This is called a geo-stationary orbit.
    What are you talking about? How do you create forces that are non-existent?

    "the speed the ball orbits at could match exactly the rotational speed of the earth and so the ball would appear to hang motionless in space."

    Wow, how can anything orbit, stick your head out the window, see the plane of the Earth? That's equal to the atmosphere up above, see how flat it looks? How could anything fall around on a flat surface!!??!!???!!
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  7. #6  
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    Interestingly, newcastle is the same guy who wanted to prove that the planets didn't really exist: http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...227&highlight=

    I'm not sure if he's a troll, insane, or what.
     

  8. #7  
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    Wow. A guy who REALLY thinks the Earth is flat? I can't compete with that!
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
     

  9. #8  
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    You will not be surprised to learn I have moved this thread to pseudoscience. On reflection that may be too kind. Those who are convinced that UFOs are the craft of ETs have a little more evidence in support of their positions than Newcastle.

    Newcastle, brilliant trolling job. Very whimsical. Just keep your delusions out of the proper parts of the forum.

    Thank you.
    Ophiolite
     

  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    Interestingly, newcastle is the same guy who wanted to prove that the planets didn't really exist:

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...227&highlight=

    I'm not sure if he's a troll, insane, or what.
    Dispute this thread and I'll be the judge of who you are.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Wow. A guy who REALLY thinks the Earth is flat? I can't compete with that!
    Agreed, you cannot complete with the superior intellect, so what is left besides your science fiction books? Death!!! For you believe a lie (sin) but you can always become a seeker of Absolute Truth, those gates won't close as long as you keep breathing.

    See ya around brother...
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    You will not be surprised to learn I have moved this thread to pseudoscience. On reflection that may be too kind. Those who are convinced that UFOs are the craft of ETs have a little more evidence in support of their positions than Newcastle.

    Newcastle, brilliant trolling job. Very whimsical. Just keep your delusions out of the proper parts of the forum.

    Thank you.
    Ophiolite
    Hey Ophiolite, I kinda missed that gracious attitude of yours, why don't you put your wits together and see how cleaver you can defend that science you call wisdom for the wise.....
    HOUSE OF THE GREAT KING.
     

  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
    A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.
    Consider the possibility that your imagination is merely too limited to accept even the basics of reality. The world is round. Orbit is possible. You could walk or cycle, drive, sail or fly around the Earth yourself. Or you could watch a ship disappear over the horizon. There lots of ways to prove it to yourself, if you are bothered. I suspect though, that you have your preconception and that you would rather not test it.

    Or you're just a troll.
     

  14. #13  
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    Just a reminder: The Earth is not flat. Therefore the atmosphere that surrounds the Earth is not flat.
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
     

  15. #14  
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    newcastle, meet jollybear
    jollybear, meet newcastle

    tiny minds have to shrink big concepts until they fit the size of their tiny mind
    "i don't understand it, therefore it can't be true"
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

  16. #15  
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    [quote="TheBiologista"]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
    A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.
    So what your technically saying is that the teachings of all your so-called great men of science have pretty much been watered down by now, I agree, we should just throw those teachings from the universities out the window and start a new, we write our own books.
    [quote="TheBiologista"]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
    Consider the possibility that your imagination is merely too limited to accept even the basics of reality. The world is round. Orbit is possible. You could walk or cycle, drive, sail or fly around the Earth yourself.
    If I fly around it, I need a plane with enough fuel to propel it forward, if I sail I'll need the assistance of wind to accomplish this, of course your "unlimited" imagination will and probably can come up with some science fiction explanation in achieving this, and calling it "orbit" unfortunately for you I'm into reality as of these days.
    [quote="TheBiologista"]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
    Or you could watch a ship disappear over the horizon. There lots of ways to prove it to yourself, if you are bothered. I suspect though, that you have your preconception and that you would rather not test it.
    Okay, okay, you want to believe the Earth is round because this is what was taught to you and its impossible to go against the establishment, fine, I'll pretend its round to amuse you. When I'm driving in my car on my city roads (on the planes) I'm telling myself that the atmosphere is level to this surface I'm driving on only parallel 300 km up. I know that the car is moving forward because I've got my foot on the gas pedal, but if I take my foot off it my car begins to slow down and finally comes to a stop, so, how does the ISS who's on the same surface plane in regards to the atmosphere travel on this so-called orbit?
    [quote="TheBiologista"]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
    Or you're just a troll.
    You can't dispute the O-P and this is what bothers you, you feel beaten, although it was not you I targeted but your Pinocchio science, I have destroyed it, and in time this seed will take and bring forth the proverbial fruit desired.
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  17. #16 Re: Space-Station doesn't orbit, "how could it?" 
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    Quote Originally Posted by newcastle
    This is the line that hooked a generation to sink lower then previous one.

    "The ISS free-falls as it orbits the Earth. If there were no forces acting on the ISS, it would travel in a straight line away from the Earth. Because the Earth pulls the ISS towards it and is traveling 7900 meters per second (26,000 feet per second) parallel to the Earth's surface, the ISS moves around the Earth in a circle. Astronauts in the ISS appear to be floating, but it is more correct to say they are in "free fall."

    http://ksnn.larc.nasa.gov/webtext.cfm?unit=float

    How can this possibility be? If you put a ball on ground zero will that ball start rolling around the round Earth? NO!!! The same area applies to the atmosphere, because the atmosphere is level and PARALLEL to the ground of the Earth, the space station doesn't move. Why should it move? Maybe this link will help with a visual, picture the ISS sitting at 250 km, now look to ground zero, see how flat the ground is? That's how flat the atmosphere is up there following the flat ground below. Further proof, stick your head out the window, see the plane of the Earth? That's equal to the atmosphere up above, see how flat it looks? How could anything fall around on such a flat surface???????????

    http://ds9.ssl.berkeley.edu/LWS_GEMS...3/emrad510.jpg

    So, why has science lied to you? Because stupid is how they want you to remain, its not personal, its directed to GOD as an insult that His intelligent creation has become DUMB, and therefore, imperfect, making GOD imperfect by those who are rebelling against Him. These corrupting beings have influence/dealt/negotiated with the elites who feed us a steady diet of this and other shit and will continue to do so until you ALL become intelligent again....


    Take the Helium Balloon test for a better understanding.

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/The-H...st.-14381t.php
    Here is a graphical representation of the force created by a moving object. The force, actually velocity, is always in a straight line. In the case of the spinning space station in that animation below. You can see that Mr. Bill, does not fall into the floor. But rather the space station floor gets in Mr. Bill's way. That is what creates the artificial gravity in a spinning vessel.

    You can go to Great Adventure, I believe they still have a room that spins and sticks you to the wall. The floor drops out and you are stuck to the wall. I went on it once. It is pretty cool. Your body is trying to move in a straight line and the round path of the wall you are up against, gets in your way. This creates the force you feel.

    The faster you go the more velocity you have to effect or alter, to deter you from a straight path.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Flash/mrbi...mrbill8x6.html


    But you should be able to see that once you set an object in motion, it travels nicely in a straight line.

    The planet removes gravity rays leaving the earths surface, so that things are pushed more, to the surface by gravity.

    There is a constant force upon a moving object orbiting the earth.

    There is an exact height above the earth. That gravity will apply a force that exactly positively accelerates an object towards the earth, so that it does not fall, or leave the orbit around the planet.

    It is just a ratio of velocity to elevation.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
     

  18. #17 Re: Space-Station doesn't orbit, "how could it?" 
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Here is a graphical representation of the force created by a moving object. The force, actually velocity, is always in a straight line. In the case of the spinning space station in that animation below. You can see that Mr. Bill, does not fall into the floor. But rather the space station floor gets in Mr. Bill's way. That is what creates the artificial gravity in a spinning vessel.

    You can go to Great Adventure, I believe they still have a room that spins and sticks you to the wall. The floor drops out and you are stuck to the wall. I went on it once. It is pretty cool. Your body is trying to move in a straight line and the round path of the wall you are up against, gets in your way. This creates the force you feel.

    The faster you go the more velocity you have to effect or alter, to deter you from a straight path.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Flash/mrbi...mrbill8x6.html


    But you should be able to see that once you set an object in motion, it travels nicely in a straight line.

    The planet removes gravity rays leaving the earths surface, so that things are pushed more, to the surface by gravity.

    There is a constant force upon a moving object orbiting the earth.

    There is an exact height above the earth. That gravity will apply a force that exactly positively accelerates an object towards the earth, so that it does not fall, or leave the orbit around the planet.

    It is just a ratio of velocity to elevation.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
    That was interesting. Thanks!

    So what's your view on the O-P?
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Wow. A guy who REALLY thinks the Earth is flat? I can't compete with that!
    Well I can. Or at least I know about a guy who could. The Good Soldier Švejk, of the then imperial Austro-Hungarian army, a character in a great sidesplitting funny Czech book by Jaroslav Hašek, marched from Ceske Budejovice to Graz during the First World War. During his long and epic journey, he noticed that the soles of his jackboots are becoming increasingly convex. I mean, the front end and the heel curved upwards, relative to the middle part. You don't need a world war to notice that; just look at any pair of badly worn old shoes.

    The great homegrown philosopher concluded that while the Earth is, indeed, a sphere, we are walking on its inside.

    Of course, the scientific establishment never acknowledged this discovery, and we are still officially on the outside of the Earth.
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  20. #19  
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    Funny anecdote!

    I am really amazed that people like Newcastle are still around. I mean, he does not really sound entirely idiotic does he? I could easily believe that he is a fairly successful businessman or something, yet he has these astoundingly naive notions in his head, which he pretty confidently tries to defend. I get such a mix of emotions when I read stuff like this, similarly when reading WM or Jollybear's stuff. A mixture of amazement, dismay, sadness, exasperation, and strong annoyance.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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  21. #20 Re: Space-Station doesn't orbit, "how could it?" 
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    Quote Originally Posted by newcastle
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Here is a graphical representation of the force created by a moving object. The force, actually velocity, is always in a straight line. In the case of the spinning space station in that animation below. You can see that Mr. Bill, does not fall into the floor. But rather the space station floor gets in Mr. Bill's way. That is what creates the artificial gravity in a spinning vessel.

    You can go to Great Adventure, I believe they still have a room that spins and sticks you to the wall. The floor drops out and you are stuck to the wall. I went on it once. It is pretty cool. Your body is trying to move in a straight line and the round path of the wall you are up against, gets in your way. This creates the force you feel.

    The faster you go the more velocity you have to effect or alter, to deter you from a straight path.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Flash/mrbi...mrbill8x6.html


    But you should be able to see that once you set an object in motion, it travels nicely in a straight line.

    The planet removes gravity rays leaving the earths surface, so that things are pushed more, to the surface by gravity.

    There is a constant force upon a moving object orbiting the earth.

    There is an exact height above the earth. That gravity will apply a force that exactly positively accelerates an object towards the earth, so that it does not fall, or leave the orbit around the planet.

    It is just a ratio of velocity to elevation.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
    That was interesting. Thanks!

    So what's your view on the O-P?
    O-P was that kid on the Andy Griffin show. I really do not know what an O-P is.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
     

  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    I am really amazed that people like Newcastle are still around. I mean, he does not really sound entirely idiotic does he? I could easily believe that he is a fairly successful businessman or something, yet he has these astoundingly naive notions in his head, which he pretty confidently tries to defend.
    At first I thought he's just a kid who hasn't yet grasped the idea of orbital motion and thinks "orbit" is some kind of elevated highway on which you can put things like on a table.

    But now I see I have run into a flat-earther. The first ever I have met, and one more than I expected to. He would be quite amusing if he weren't so rude. Or if he weren't making a laughing-stock out of Christianity (or possibly Orthodox Judaism? I don't think he's Muslim though, he didn' cite the Qur'an).

    Now I'm afraid I'll have to stop arguing with him; it's pointless.

    Cheers,
    Leszek.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BumFluff
    Just a reminder: The Earth is not flat. Therefore the atmosphere that surrounds the Earth is not flat.
    Stick your head out the window, don't be afraid, during this process make certain your eyes are opened and remain opened for the duration of this exercise.
    See the horizontal plane of your surroundings rural areas of your neighbor-hood? See how flat it looks? That's because it is. And you know it is because if you took a carpenters level and placed it on the ground you'd have the proof right before your eyes. You cannot find or have a flat surface on a sphere, or its not a sphere, "get it?"
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  24. #23  
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    So what is at the edge and underside of the Earth, Newcastle?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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  25. #24  
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    Sunnyside in pretoria. Sunnyside is the underbelly of the earth.
    "First we build the tools, then they build us" - Marshall McLuhan.
     

  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    So what is at the edge and underside of the Earth, Newcastle?
    Ice Wall my brother, and underneath, the bottomless, its what causes the force we have come to call gravity.
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  27. #26  
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    Ice wall? Where on a world map is this Ice wall? Has anyone ever been there? Photos?




    PS: I'll be sure to give Sunnyside a miss then! :wink:
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Ice wall? Where on a world map is this Ice wall? Has anyone ever been there? Photos?
    No photos per say, because they crop their photos taken from up above. But to answer the rest of your question you'd have to look to the old maps of the first explores who sailed. You will note something that is no longer printed on the new ones. All the old maps have the North Ice dispersed equally along the length of that map and also the South Ice. If the south pole was truly Antarctica it would not have appeared so vast and wide as those who sailed during the days of exploration, it would have been drawn like the rest of the continents. But those sailors kept their compass pointing at the center of the Earth (magnetic abyss) and traveled to the edge as far as possible that the ocean ice permitted, and all they saw was ice forming close to them as they traveled in a circle around the magnetic center (abyss) on the flat Earth they documented that Ice on their maps.
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    So people never landed on the moon? All the planets and the probes sent to them was made up?

    Further. The curve of a baseball is much more acute than that of a bowling ball. So lets say that you had a ball with a circumference of 40 000 kilometres, how slight will the curve per metre be then do you think?


    Also, of what is this a photo?

    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER

    1)So people never landed on the moon?

    2)All the planets and the probes sent to them was made up?

    3)The curve of a baseball is much more acute than that of a bowling ball. So lets say that you had a ball with a circumference of 40 000 kilometres, how slight will the curve per metre be then do you think?

    4)Also, of what is this a photo?
    1) No, you can't.

    2) Planets don't exists.

    3) 360 degrees is 360, whether it has a 3 inch diameter or an 8 inch.

    4) Same like star trek.
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    1) "No, you can't."

    So they lied about everything and faked all the footage? And what about pictures of the moon showing its round shape taken from the surface of the earth, or as you see it through binoculars? What are the moon, stars and planets as seen through a telescope then?

    2) "Planets don't exists."

    So what are we seeing through telescopes? What about the observed movement of them across the sky? And all the footage and photos about the planets and their moons have also been faked? Why would they do that?

    3) "360 degrees is 360, whether it has a 3 inch diameter or an 8 inch."

    Sure, but the bigger the sphere gets, the longer the distance is between each degree, if you were to, say, measure it with a piece of string. On a sphere with a circumference of 40000 km, one degree would be 111km or about 70 miles.

    4) "Same like star trek."

    So it is computer generated and not a real photo? Again, why would they go through all this trouble to make us all think the earth is round?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER

    1) So they lied about everything and faked all the footage? And what about pictures of the moon showing its round shape taken from the surface of the earth, or as you see it through binoculars? What are the moon, stars and planets as seen through a telescope then?

    2) So what are we seeing through telescopes? What about the observed movement of them across the sky? And all the footage and photos about the planets and their moons have also been faked? Why would they do that?

    3) Sure, but the bigger the sphere gets, the longer the distance is between each degree, if you were to, say, measure it with a piece of string. On a sphere with a circumference of 40000 km, one degree would be 111km or about 70 miles.

    4) So it is computer generated and not a real photo? Again, why would they go through all this trouble to make us all think the earth is round?
    1) When I see the Moon I see it like a disc and not a ball. And the Moon and Stars are luminaries that GOD made for the inhabitants of the Earth, "pretty, wouldn't you say?"

    2) When you say "what are we seeing through telescopes?" You mean them! Because you've never seen anything in your telescope. And these Planets have been faked to keep you in a lie, in transgression against the Most High.

    3) Brother, take sometime this afternoon and draw a few circles, some small ones and some larger ones, go from as small as you can, to as big as you can, you'll see no flat space on these circles, or its not a circle anymore.

    4) Ever hear of the Fallen angels? Stupid is how they want you to remain, its not personal, its directed to GOD as an insult that His intelligent creation has become DUMB, and therefore, imperfect, making GOD imperfect by those who are rebelling against Him. These corrupting beings have influence/dealt/negotiated with the elites who govern us and feed us this steady diet of shit, and will continue to do so until WE become intelligent again.
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by newcastle
    Quote Originally Posted by BumFluff
    Just a reminder: The Earth is not flat. Therefore the atmosphere that surrounds the Earth is not flat.
    Stick your head out the window, don't be afraid, during this process make certain your eyes are opened and remain opened for the duration of this exercise.
    See the horizontal plane of your surroundings rural areas of your neighbor-hood? See how flat it looks? That's because it is. And you know it is because if you took a carpenters level and placed it on the ground you'd have the proof right before your eyes. You cannot find or have a flat surface on a sphere, or its not a sphere, "get it?"
    So, when you look at a ship sailing into the horizon, why does it seem to descend over the horizon as if following a curve instead of just going to vanishing point as it would on a perfect plane?
     

  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by newcastle
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER

    1) So they lied about everything and faked all the footage? And what about pictures of the moon showing its round shape taken from the surface of the earth, or as you see it through binoculars? What are the moon, stars and planets as seen through a telescope then?

    2) So what are we seeing through telescopes? What about the observed movement of them across the sky? And all the footage and photos about the planets and their moons have also been faked? Why would they do that?

    3) Sure, but the bigger the sphere gets, the longer the distance is between each degree, if you were to, say, measure it with a piece of string. On a sphere with a circumference of 40000 km, one degree would be 111km or about 70 miles.

    4) So it is computer generated and not a real photo? Again, why would they go through all this trouble to make us all think the earth is round?
    1) When I see the Moon I see it like a disc and not a ball. And the Moon and Stars are luminaries that GOD made for the inhabitants of the Earth, "pretty, wouldn't you say?"

    2) When you say "what are we seeing through telescopes?" You mean them! Because you've never seen anything in your telescope. And these Planets have been faked to keep you in a lie, in transgression against the Most High.

    3) Brother, take sometime this afternoon and draw a few circles, some small ones and some larger ones, go from as small as you can, to as big as you can, you'll see no flat space on these circles, or its not a circle anymore.

    4) Ever hear of the Fallen angels? Stupid is how they want you to remain, its not personal, its directed to GOD as an insult that His intelligent creation has become DUMB, and therefore, imperfect, making GOD imperfect by those who are rebelling against Him. These corrupting beings have influence/dealt/negotiated with the elites who govern us and feed us this steady diet of shit, and will continue to do so until WE become intelligent again.
    But there's no God.
     

  35. #34  
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    , um, ok then.


    How do you know I have never looked through a telescope at a planet? This picture was of Jupiter was taken through a good amateur telescope (not by me, but I saw a similar image):



    Am I lying too? Am I working for the Devil?

    Can I ask; What do you do for a living?

    3) Brother, take sometime this afternoon and draw a few circles, some small ones and some larger ones, go from as small as you can, to as big as you can, you'll see no flat space on these circles, or its not a circle anymore.
    Man, nobody is saying that a perfect circle has any flat sides! :-D It is just that the bigger the spere, the closer the curve comes to a straight line! Don't you agree?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBiologista
    Stick your head out the window, don't be afraid, during this process make certain your eyes are opened and remain opened for the duration of this exercise. See the horizontal plane of your surroundings rural areas of your neighbor-hood? See how flat it looks? That's because it is. And you know it is because if you took a carpenters level and placed it on the ground you'd have the proof right before your eyes. You cannot find or have a flat surface on a sphere, or its not a sphere, "get it?"
    ---------------------------
    So, when you look at a ship sailing into the horizon, why does it seem to descend over the horizon as if following a curve instead of just going to vanishing point as it would on a perfect plane?
    There is GOD, don't talk dummy talk again, HE hears everything. And for your question, you remember when you were young? And you would see a friend walking towards you from far away? Remember how you saw his head first and then the torso? Well, if you ever flew on an airplane you would see that whole distance your friend walked on will seem flat, because it is flat, but your optical sensors can only see so far in details, kinda like when people start to get older.

    And if what you say would be the truth, well, that place, that area, that your friend walked on could never experience torrential floods. The whole round Earth couldn't experience any torrential floods.
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    Ok, so the smaller gets, the more the curve will look like a straight line from a human's perspective, right Newcastle? will get smaller as the sphere gets larger.
    You would get like this:


    Agreed?

    For the above sphere:

    For a curve 1km long on the surface of the sphere, would be and would be half that, or .





    So,



    ,
    or (about of an inch per mile).
    That would mean that at the length of a yard long spirit level, it would lie on a bump 0.00071 of an inch above the level, in other words, it would lie perfectly flat.

    Don't you think everything would look flat if you stuck your head out the window?


    Edit: Actually, I made a mistake with my conversions from meters to miles and inches (bloody nonsense units! :x ), but the effect is exactly the same. A spirit level would still lie perfectly flat on such a surface. A one meter lengthed curve would stand out of a millimeter.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  38. #37  
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    You're a dedicated troll or one of the most cripplingly dense people I've ever communicated with. And that counts creationists.

    There is GOD, don't talk dummy talk again, HE hears everything.
    Hey God, if You exist please post on this thread. We have questions. Thanks.

    And for your question, you remember when you were young? And you would see a friend walking towards you from far away? Remember how you saw his head first and then the torso?
    No.

    Well, if you ever flew on an airplane you would see that whole distance your friend walked on will seem flat, because it is flat, but your optical sensors can only see so far in details, kinda like when people start to get older.
    Because I'm now above it. Of course it looks flat. But still further in the distance I can still observe the same effect.

    And if what you say would be the truth, well, that place, that area, that your friend walked on could never experience torrential floods. The whole round Earth couldn't experience any torrential floods.
    What?

    Look, if I wanted to set up a vast conspiracy to control the masses I sure wouldn't use a philosophy that values questioning and attacking all knowledge. Science is a terrible way to trick people because it encourages them to question everything. I'd use religion, because it teaches people to stop asking questions when someone says "God did it".
     

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    sounds very much like "if i close my eyes long and hard, it will all go away"
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER


    That would mean that at the length of a yard long spirit level, the curve would drop away by 0.00071 of an inch, in other words, it would lie perfectly flat.

    Don't you think everything would look flat if you stuck your head out the window?

    Edit: Actually, I made a mistake with my conversions from meters to miles and inches (bloody nonsense units!), but the effect is exactly the same. A spirit level would still lie perfectly flat on such a surface.
    Dude, that's incredible, your calculation, you're a real whiz. " I never knew the atmosphere was that flat. "A spirit level would still lie perfectly flat on such a surface." And so would the space Shuttle!!!!

    "Gullibility kills" Carl Sagan is right, because gullibility is a lie, or a sin.
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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by newcastle
    " I never knew the atmosphere was that flat"
    Well, exactly how flat did you think it was?
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  42. #41  
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    Dude, that's incredible, your calculation, you're a real whiz, " I never knew the atmosphere was that flat, heck, how the hell does the ISS orbit?"
    It appears flat on your scale. That is the point. That is why you think it is flat. Read my post again about the throwing of the balls. Also, does a stone float on water? Then how could the ISS float on air? The ISS is a hell of a lot heavier than a stone and the atmosphere is a hell of a lot thinner (less dense) than water.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
     

  43. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    ]Dude, that's incredible, your calculation, you're a real whiz, " I never knew the atmosphere was that flat, heck, how the hell does the ISS orbit?"
    ----------------------
    It appears flat on your scale. That is the point. That is why you think it is flat.
    Nah my brother those calculations are striking (about 1.25 of an inch per mile), that's pretty flat, the Shuttle is about what 180 feet long with adjusted ratio you've convinced me it pretty much rests on a very flat atmosphere of your round Earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Read my post again about the throwing of the balls. Also, does a stone float on water?
    A stone can't float on water because of the atmospheric pressure, the water and the stone are within the invisible dome.
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Then how could the ISS float on air? The ISS is a hell of a lot heavier than a stone and the atmosphere is a hell of a lot thinner (less dense) than water.
    The tiles on the Shuttle is the give away to all who seek Truth. These tiles don't heat up on lift-off only on re-entering, because the friction is so incredible that the Shuttle is literally drilling into those gases, and just like a drill bit it will heat up. Upon take-off when the Shuttle thrust through the atmosphere and into outer space, the emptiness of space allows that where ever the Shuttle rests upon “something” that “something” becomes a support for the Shuttle, in this case, that “something” are the layers of gases pile up one on top of the other known as the atmosphere. At this height and being on the outside into the emptiness this “something” (although gases) act like a soft surface, we would be able walk on the atmosphere, so when the Shuttle re-enters it needs rocket engine power to drill through this support and the tiles to cool the heat generated.
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  44. #43  
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    you've convinced me
    Convinced you of what?

    A stone can't float on water because of the atmospheric pressure, the water and the stone are within the invisible dome.
    What the hell does that mean? It is an issue of density. The stone is heavier per volume than the water.

    These tiles don't heat up on lift-off only on re-entering, because the friction is so incredible that the Shuttle is literally drilling into those gases, and just like a drill bit it will heat up.
    The shuttle exits and re-enters at about 17,000
    miles per hour, but the attitude (way it faces the direction of travel) is very different during exit (head first) and entry (belly first). It is because of the increase in friction as a result of its attitude (belly first) that it heats up. It re-enters belly first so the increased friction can help slow it down (air braking). The shuttle only burns fuel to properly align itself for re-entry and not during re-entry. Gravity does all the work.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    you've convinced me
    ----------------------
    Convinced you of what?
    Convinced me with your calculations that the Shuttle rests on a very flat atmosphere.
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    A stone can't float on water because of the atmospheric pressure, the water and the stone are within the invisible dome.
    ----------------------
    What the hell does that mean? It is an issue of density. The stone is heavier per volume than the water.
    My fault I didn't fully explain, I keep forgetting not everyone knows what I know and that's what all this exercise is for, that they will eventually.
    Basically what you said. Solids heavier then liquids, liquids heavier then gases, gases heavier then the emptiness of space. What I meant was if the stone was outside the atmosphere it would not sink into the water because the atmosphere would become a support as it does for the Shuttle.
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    These tiles don't heat up on lift-off only on re-entering, because the friction is so incredible that the Shuttle is literally drilling into those gases, and just like a drill bit it will heat up.
    ----------------------
    The shuttle exits and re-enters at about 17,000
    miles per hour, but the attitude (way it faces the direction of travel) is very different during exit (head first) and entry (belly first).
    No, I've seen the take-offs the Shuttle turns on its belly.

    http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/space/gl...op.takeoff.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    It is because of the increase in friction as a result of its attitude (belly first) that it heats up. It re-enters belly first so the increased friction can help slow it down (air braking). The shuttle only burns fuel to properly align itself for re-entry and not during re-entry. Gravity does all the work.
    I think you need to re-educate your self on this matter in accordance to their science as explained. Also if it were gravity doing all the work the Shuttle would not achieve orbit ( not that it really does according to me and by your own calculations) the gravity would allow it to fall right back to Earth, and that's not the case. So, the rocket trusts are used to re-enter, the tiles are there to cool off the heat generated by the friction of piercing through the first of the layer of our atmosphere.
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  46. #45  
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    would like to say this is the funniest thread I have visited on the forums...Im laughing all over the floor...no really I am


    A lecture in maths:
    On a side note a circle actually consists of a bunch of straight lines where the tangents to the circle lie on the surface of the circle

    this extended to the extreme example if u have a circle that is infinite in size, there would be no difference between this and a straight line

    the only reason u perceive the earth as flat is because the instruments ur using are 2 rudimentary to notice the curvature..

    I know I cannot draw a 90 degree triangle that is a true 90 degree triangle because no equipment is perfect enough to draw it...I might get 89.99999999999 or 90.00000001 but it is still not 90, and I might actually believe I have managed to draw a 90 degree triangle if my equipment is not accurate enough to detect a error of 0.000000001 degrees

    the earth is round, try traveling in a straight line along its surface and if u get back to where u start u might realize u have gone in a circle even though u know for a fact u have gone in a straight line

    Thanks for the laugh
    Just here to Learn =)

    Not Thinking is a sign of laziness, everyone has to make a choice at some point in their lives, either they reach a degree of non thinking where being stupid is just easier or they start thinking and enjoy the life they have now
     

  47. #46  
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    Man, that's hilarious, thanks for digging this up.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
     

  48. #47  
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    Isaiah 40:22 ->

    It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

    Please read the book you smear both science and God with before you do so.

    Edit: typoed.
    --
    -M

    "Those that would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    -Benjamin Franklin, An Historical Review of Pennsilvanya, 1759
     

  49. #48  
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    Ugh. Zombie thread.

    No.
     

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