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  1. #1 ghosts 
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    hello do you belive in ghosts?If yes where have you seen it? How did the ghost look?[/img]


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    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
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    I saw on another forum somewhere that EVP's could be the result of the digital audio recorders picking up signals from other electronic devices. Can someone please elaborate?


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    I have no clue about ghosts. I have, however, had the privilege to look at a ghost hunter's "tricorder."

    The one I looked at measured RF signals, Magnetic Field Strength, and Electric Field Strength. It displayed the readout in led bars, the more LEDs, the stronger the field. It was very sensitive to random noise, and often reported ghosts when pointed at almost any power tool that was running, as well as some other electrical appliances.

    What it does was measure an RF frequency range they set to be the "ghost range" using specific semi-conductor components. If any signal shows up in this range, it gives you a level indication of how high the signal is. Many household items give off ambient fields of some sort. Everything from Microwave Ovens, to WIFI, to distant radio towers have the potential to "interfere" with your tricorder.

    The field strength indicators are less tricky to interfere with. Wherever you have an electric field, you will have a magnetic field. All electronic items have both, but usually designers are careful to minimize these, and the FCC requires items sold in the US to comply with pretty strict non-interference standards. However, if something has a bare wire, you may just end up recording a "ghost."

    This is what people meant by picking up random interference. A poorly made device, or a high power device (such as a drill) may accidentally give off ambients that can false trigger your instrumentation.
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    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alienmindsinc
    I have no clue about ghosts. I have, however, had the privilege to look at a ghost hunter's "tricorder."

    The one I looked at measured RF signals, Magnetic Field Strength, and Electric Field Strength. It displayed the readout in led bars, the more LEDs, the stronger the field. It was very sensitive to random noise, and often reported ghosts when pointed at almost any power tool that was running, as well as some other electrical appliances.

    What it does was measure an RF frequency range they set to be the "ghost range" using specific semi-conductor components. If any signal shows up in this range, it gives you a level indication of how high the signal is. Many household items give off ambient fields of some sort. Everything from Microwave Ovens, to WIFI, to distant radio towers have the potential to "interfere" with your tricorder.

    The field strength indicators are less tricky to interfere with. Wherever you have an electric field, you will have a magnetic field. All electronic items have both, but usually designers are careful to minimize these, and the FCC requires items sold in the US to comply with pretty strict non-interference standards. However, if something has a bare wire, you may just end up recording a "ghost."

    This is what people meant by picking up random interference. A poorly made device, or a high power device (such as a drill) may accidentally give off ambients that can false trigger your instrumentation.
    So could a digital recorder pick up voices from a radio or tv from a distance in the same way? Even if the radio or tv was out of earshot?
    Steven
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    How does anyone know that what they see, hear, or otherwise experience is a ghost?

    What would make people think "it must be a ghost" even if something as legitimately unexplained as levitating coffee cups, spontaneous scratches or burns, voices, or people shaped shadows/vapors, etc.

    When stepping foot into the hypothetical world of paranormal activities, there are countless explanations for everything, yet people are quick to think "ghost." Why do you think that is?

    Even if a human shaped vapor casting no shadow, possessing no reflection, was always around me, invisible to other people. Even if such a being was constantly moving things around and scaring the crap out of people, there are still other explanations.

    For all you know, a ghost is not a dead soul, but your own psychic manifestation, or the collective psychic manifestation of all those involved with the experience.
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    Or the worlds first invisible man.

    The possibilities are endles, especially when you have already decided that you are dealing with something that you previously thought impossible.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Steven,

    Yes and no. A really sensitive recorder that is able to filter out foreground noise could, in theory, record the sounds put out by a television a short distance away. The distance depends on the amount of ambient noise, the strength of the original signal, and how well the signal propagates to your location.

    No because it's not really feasible. Often times when they record things, I suspect that they have intense filtering on the input, so as to avoid the foreground noise, and get only the background. In these cases, it would be logical that what they're getting is a mixture of harmonics from the foreground that still arrive in the background, and create an artifact of words. Sound can carry, so it is no surprise that eventually they'll accidentally pick up someone's super heavily filtered pizza order, and only get one or two "almost" words out of it.

    The signals I posted about would have been modulated in some manner. Scrambled to the ear, but easily "fixable" to the electronics. You could not simply record 99% of RF transmissions and get the original signal, you would have to clean it up and demodulate first.

    As far as what makes a ghost, a ghost, I've got no clue. Personally, I believe that a lot of things that happen can be explained by good science, but I've experienced a few things that cannot. Mostly I attribute those latter things to bad judgment and missed observation on my part.
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    Forum Professor WVBIG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    How does anyone know that what they see, hear, or otherwise experience is a ghost?

    What would make people think "it must be a ghost" even if something as legitimately unexplained as levitating coffee cups, spontaneous scratches or burns, voices, or people shaped shadows/vapors, etc.

    When stepping foot into the hypothetical world of paranormal activities, there are countless explanations for everything, yet people are quick to think "ghost." Why do you think that is?

    Even if a human shaped vapor casting no shadow, possessing no reflection, was always around me, invisible to other people. Even if such a being was constantly moving things around and scaring the crap out of people, there are still other explanations.

    For all you know, a ghost is not a dead soul, but your own psychic manifestation, or the collective psychic manifestation of all those involved with the experience.
    I'm a firm believer that a grieving mind can manifest things that others can see or experience. I believe this because 14 years ago, a friend of mine died in a car accident. A few times shortly after her death, my bedroom door slowly opened & I said "Close the door please Brenda" The door then slowly closed, a couple times in the presence of a witness. But this only happened a few times for a short period of time after her death & she had never actually been in my house. So there is no reason for her "ghost" to be here or for it to leave if it had. Also occasionally during the same period of time as the activity with the door, I would smell her perfume
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG
    I'm a firm believer that a grieving mind can manifest things that others can see or experience. I believe this because 14 years ago, a friend of mine died in a car accident. A few times shortly after her death, my bedroom door slowly opened & I said "Close the door please Brenda" The door then slowly closed, a couple times in the presence of a witness. But this only happened a few times for a short period of time after her death & she had never actually been in my house. So there is no reason for her "ghost" to be here or for it to leave if it had. Also occasionally during the same period of time as the activity with the door, I would smell her perfume
    I'm curious, how many times did you ask Brenda to do something and she didn't do it? Did you even keep track of those events, or did you only count the hits? That tends to be what happens in these types of situations. People remember the prayers that were answered, not the ones that weren't.

    Doors will open/close for various reasons: pressure changes, unnoticeable seismic vibrations, ect. I remember "asking" my door to open and close several times in childhood and for years I was convinced it was because of psychic power even though I knew perfectly well that I lived in a drafty house. People predisposed to assuming the supernatural will selectively see "proof" of it everywhere. They'll see "orbs" instead of a poorly developed photograph. They'll see "manifestations" instead of dust particles in night-vision video. They'll see electromagnetic feilds as ominous and spooky when they're everywhere (thanks to household electricity.) They aren't looking for a rational explanation, or even an explanation at all, they're looking to reaffirm a belief. A belief that they already hold for subjective or emotional reasons.

    I also find it rather absurd that an immortal consciousness, having transcended the laws of space, spend his/her time mucking about in old houses opening and closing people's doors for them. I would go to Titan, find out what sort of water is under there.
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  11. #10  
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    Indeed. If I was an immortal spirit, I'd travel the universe.

    Then again, we don't know anything about hypothetical ghosts. They might not be immortal. Maybe they are waiting for an opportunity to possess themselves a body, or maybe they are given life via attention, and only curtain types of attention are what they are after, hence why they don't appear the same to everyone.

    maybe.... lol
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    Well, uneducated dingdongs tell us that ghosts are "just energy".

    (actual quotes):
    "What kind of energy?"

    "Jest - energy."

    "Chemical energy? 'Gravitational energy'? Kinetic energy?"

    "Jest......energy!"
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finger
    They aren't looking for a rational explanation, or even an explanation at all, they're looking to reaffirm a belief. A belief that they already hold for subjective or emotional reasons.
    Yeah, that's probably a very good way to sum it up.


    I also find it rather absurd that an immortal consciousness, having transcended the laws of space, spend his/her time mucking about in old houses opening and closing people's doors for them. I would go to Titan, find out what sort of water is under there.
    An immortal consciousness might not always come to terms with its death so easily. Y'know, you suddenly find out that all the plans you had for the rest of your life are not going to happen. You may have unresolved issues with some of the living, coupled with a frustrating inability to directly communicate. Sort of like how some people never fully transition out of high school.

    Or.. you could be like me and spend too much time in cyberspace when you should be socializing in the real world.
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    So where's all the ghosts in the system, then? You'd think the first thing they'd do would be to leave e-mail messages all over the place, just like they're purported to have left on old tape recorders.
    Nooo, that would be proof. You can't have proof of malarkey.
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    I think there 's a time limit for ghosts. Never see any dinosaur or cavemen ghosts, real disappointing. We could learn a lot. Ghosts seem to be of a more recent vintage. And what's with ghosts wearing clothes, did the clothes die too. Is there a place for dead clothes to go after they whatever here on Earth? Why aren't all ghosts naked? What about inanimate objects like ghost ships, what's that all about. Ships don't die, clothes don't die, but there they are. Ghosts have nothing to do with dying and a lot to do with the imagination.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG
    I saw on another forum somewhere that EVP's could be the result of the digital audio recorders picking up signals from other electronic devices. Can someone please elaborate?
    I experienced this two nights ago myself when my intercom system was picking up "skip" from CB radios or something like that
    Steven
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  17. #16  
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    I have seen ghosts twice. On both occassions they were very clear, but somewhat transparent. The apparitions remained visible for between twelve and forty seconds. I had taken no drugs or alcohol. I was not suffering any mental illness.

    I do not believe they were the spirits of the departed. I am fully satisfied they were wholly natural phenomena explicable within our current theories. I am equally confident a gullible observer would have believed he had just seen someone from 'the other side'.

    (WVBIG, this is one reason I don't trust eye witness testimony, though it is not the main one.)
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  18. #17  
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    Never seen a ghost, but I have felt spiritual presences, or psychic impressions. Don't know which for sure, but rather eerie.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finger
    Quote Originally Posted by WVBIG
    I'm a firm believer that a grieving mind can manifest things that others can see or experience. I believe this because 14 years ago, a friend of mine died in a car accident. A few times shortly after her death, my bedroom door slowly opened & I said "Close the door please Brenda" The door then slowly closed, a couple times in the presence of a witness. But this only happened a few times for a short period of time after her death & she had never actually been in my house. So there is no reason for her "ghost" to be here or for it to leave if it had. Also occasionally during the same period of time as the activity with the door, I would smell her perfume
    I'm curious, how many times did you ask Brenda to do something and she didn't do it? Did you even keep track of those events, or did you only count the hits? That tends to be what happens in these types of situations. People remember the prayers that were answered, not the ones that weren't.

    Doors will open/close for various reasons: pressure changes, unnoticeable seismic vibrations, ect. I remember "asking" my door to open and close several times in childhood and for years I was convinced it was because of psychic power even though I knew perfectly well that I lived in a drafty house. People predisposed to assuming the supernatural will selectively see "proof" of it everywhere. They'll see "orbs" instead of a poorly developed photograph. They'll see "manifestations" instead of dust particles in night-vision video. They'll see electromagnetic feilds as ominous and spooky when they're everywhere (thanks to household electricity.) They aren't looking for a rational explanation, or even an explanation at all, they're looking to reaffirm a belief. A belief that they already hold for subjective or emotional reasons.

    I also find it rather absurd that an immortal consciousness, having transcended the laws of space, spend his/her time mucking about in old houses opening and closing people's doors for them. I would go to Titan, find out what sort of water is under there.
    I never had an opportunity to test the accuracy of the "hits" because after 2v or 3 months, the occurences stopped. That's why I believe it was because of my grief. I don't live in a drafty house but I'm well aware interior doors can open & close on their own if a draft comes through an open window or exterior door. On neither occasion were there any open windows or exterior doors. In any event, when my door is open, it's behind the end of my closet. So the only window that could affect it if open, is facing it when it's in the open position. Wind from that window would hold it open. I think grief manifesting physical phenomena is more logical than ghosts
    Steven
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