Thread: Obama's Pastor

For those of you not in the states, there is a huge debate over obama and his controversial pastor.

I would like to ask,

If a white man was running for president, and tapes sold by the church he attends showed the candidate's pastor and friend of twenty years making racist comments, not just once or twice, but multiple times over the years, and the candidate condemns his pastor once the tapes make headline news, and claims he did not hear these comments in person, yet he still maintains a close friendship with the pastor, would you still vote for the candidate?

Its not just for what the pastor has said, the fact its anti-American in nature or that the old Chicago 'Black Power' has resurfaced, but that Obama has given the credit for bringing him to Christianity, lied about the issue to begin with and now thrown his own Mother under the bus. If the person who raised him (his Grandmother), leaned so far one way, how could some one so far the opposite (pastor) in philosophy, convince him. What was his philosophical leaning to allow this? It almost had to be an anti-american attitude to begin with...this would then beg the question, what influence did the his Dad, three Muslim Brothers and a most certain understanding of the Muslim culture, play.

If a White Man, was at any point in his life a member of the KKK, advocated superiority of any race, or had professed a general understanding of a good in those that do or their ideas...Then no, I could not vote for him/her...

Originally Posted by jackson33

Its not just for what the pastor has said, the fact its anti-American in nature or that the old Chicago 'Black Power' has resurfaced, but that Obama has given the credit for bringing him to Christianity, lied about the issue to begin with and now thrown his own Mother under the bus. If the person who raised him (his Grandmother), leaned so far one way, how could some one so far the opposite (pastor) in philosophy, convince him. What was his philosophical leaning to allow this? It almost had to be an anti-american attitude to begin with...this would then beg the question, what influence did the his Dad, three Muslim Brothers and a most certain understanding of the Muslim culture, play.

If a White Man, was at any point in his life a member of the KKK, advocated superiority of any race, or had professed a general understanding of a good in those that do or their ideas...Then no, I could not vote for him/her...

Jackson, all im asking is what i posted, you go a little further than I intend to go, though you may not be all wrong. I'm just asking a simple question, I don't care what his muslim father or brothers have to do with this in the least, Mainly because I'm afraid others will start missing the point. Also because Obama is not the person who said these things, but his good friend and pastor of 20 years.

All I'm asking is: If a white man was running for president, and tapes sold by the church he attends showed the candidate's pastor and friend of twenty years making racist comments, not just once or twice, but multiple times over the years, would you still vote for the candidate?

Yes or No?

I am also assuming that the white man responds the same way as obama, condemns his pastor's comments and claims he never heard it in person, yet keeps close ties with his friend and pastor.

Not bashing you or anything, I just want to keep this thread a little more simple than the implications you added to it. Again, I am just afraid that others will start missing the point, and start arguing about whether Obama is Muslim or not.

I understand you thought, but feel the question is unanswerable. IMO, voting for anyone is not a race issue. In his 'speech' response the other day, he reversed, never hearing in person. Also I did not say Obama was a Muslim, but maybe an influence in his life which led to this problem for him.

This is a response to your response, will not respond again and sorry, you feel I have messed up your poll...Was not intential...

It seems odd that religion is given as much press in the states as it is. Don't yanks have more important issues to consider?

It is not so much a religious issue as it is the fact that Obama, in candidacy for president, is close friends with his pastor and considers this man an important influence to his life, and this man is racist and has used hate speech during his friendship with the candidate. It makes you question the integrity and character of a man who is a close friend to an outspoken racist!

If you notice, the only thing I am changing between the real situation and the one I have proposed is the color of their skin. I want to see if people think obama and his pastor should be treated any differently. If a candidate was white, and his white pastor and close friend had directed comments toward a different ethnicity using similar words that Obama's pastor has directed towards whites, I would think that not very many people would vote for that candidate.

Jackson, I am not accusing you of messing up my poll! I just wanted to clarify the meaning of this thread so that my intentions were made a little more clear! Feel free to vote and comment, but I was only trying to make sure my intentions for this thread were understood.

Supernat, as an UKian I have no locus standi on this matter, but I get your point and I think it's a valid one. It's just that in the dirty world of politics some people are desperate for any mud flung at Obama to stick.

Many USian politicians have got away with much worse in the past (as have UKian ones too), so in that context this is a ridiculous storm in a teacup, but there you have it.

You didn't expect the US to get its first non-white president without putting up a damn good fight now did you?

I just don't think we should vote by the color of a candidates skin. Just because he is the first black candidate with a good chance of winning doesn't mean we should let stuff like this slide! We wouldn't let it slide if he was white, why let it slide because he's black? I would not mind having a black president. I just believe he would have done better to have broken ties with such a hateful, racist man! I don't buy the whole "I never heard it personally", He had to have at least heard SOMETHING from second-hand witnesses!

If I were going to be racist I would have a Native American be president, since that is MY ethnic background, but I wouldn't expect people to vote for him if he was close friends for 20 years with a racist Native American who he considered a spiritual guide!

to answer the question, yes i would be and am angry when white people say the same things about blacks

the problem is that were not all equal, blacks in this country are in a lot worse place than whites and they have the right to be angry

I voted yes.

Why?

Well, put it this way. The pastor was considered an uncle to Obama. They were close and that man gave Obama hope in Christianity. They are close.

So it would be hard for someone to just abandon a close friend, even if he is crazy. A quote from Obama himself went something like this..."He's like a crazy old uncle, sometimes he says things that you dont agree with, but you still love him."

I can understand that. It is wrong what the pastor says, but really...what everyone should be thinking is..

Well Obama himself never said this, so he doesnt believe it. He has condemned the pastor's words himself. That is all you can beleive.

Besides, religion and church should have no bearing on matters like this.

The remarks of a pastor of a CFR Candidate financed by wallstreet who says nuking a country (for facricated reasons) is on the table (creating a nightmare of slaughter with incalculable repercutions on the world stage), would have as much effect on my opinion as learning which brand of chewing gum he enjoys

This being said, I only saw one clip of the pastor, and when you hear the sermon from which the clip was taken, you conclude that the clip was taken out of context and was repeated to mislead the american public as surely as if they had just lied right out. Im not a fan of Obama but Clinton's far worst, not to mention that she and the Media are blatant liers (imo McCain's a warmongering basketcase)

I think you are missing the more objectionable anti-American comments Wright made. "God damn America," for example. My feeling is that Obama cannot have sat through 20 years of that kind of sentiment without it having had some kind of influence. The racist comments, while objectionable, are not as condemnable as the anti-American comments.

But to answer the question, I would be reluctant to vote for anyone, black or white, Rep. or Dem., male or female who agreed with this kind of talk. Obama probably distanced himself enough that this issue will not be a determining factor for the Democratic nomination. It may, however, jump up bite him in the ass in the presidential election.

However, in the now extremely polarized political atmosphere of the U.S. those who favor Obama probably will not switch to Hillary nor will Hillary advocates switch to Obama over this. In fact, a lot of Obama people say they will vote republican if Hillary is nominated while a lot of Hillary people claim they will vote republican if Obama is elected.

Originally Posted by daytonturner

I think you are missing the more objectionable anti-American comments Wright made. "God damn America," for example. My feeling is that Obama cannot have sat through 20 years of that kind of sentiment without it having had some kind of influence. The racist comments, while objectionable, are not as condemnable as the anti-American comments.

But to answer the question, I would be reluctant to vote for anyone, black or white, Rep. or Dem., male or female who agreed with this kind of talk. Obama probably distanced himself enough that this issue will not be a determining factor for the Democratic nomination. It may, however, jump up bite him in the ass in the presidential election.

However, in the now extremely polarized political atmosphere of the U.S. those who favor Obama probably will not switch to Hillary nor will Hillary advocates switch to Obama over this. In fact, a lot of Obama people say they will vote republican if Hillary is nominated while a lot of Hillary people claim they will vote republican if Obama is elected.

I told myself I would vote republican if hillary makes it to the general election. I am still hoping for Obama.

Your completely correct.

I thought he made remarks against America and considering he grew up during segregation i can understand.
What racist anti-white remarks has he made?

What racist anti-white remarks has he made?

I dont know about those, but I would caution anyone about taking comments at face value if you dont hear the whole conversation before and after the comment, I have seen a clip that was utterly misleading when you saw it out of context

anybody know what racist remark he made? he may have been un-patriotic but it wasn't racist to say what he did.

I love it when people say, "I saw a clip," and do not say where they saw it or if it is available on internet for others to watch. While I have no reason to doubt Icewendigo, one can never be sure whether THAT clip was also agenda oriented.

I am not sure what the alleged "racist" remarks were, but they were inconsequential. We have come to expect and tolerate somewhat racist statements from activists from various races. By themselves, whatever Wright's so called racist statements may have been, they would not have caused a stir.

But when he said the government created the AIDs virus, that Louis Farakhan was a great man and God damn America, that is a different matter.

He didn't really make any racist comments. Mostly just stuff like..

"There is a black America, and it is finally being heard" or something like that.

I really dont feel like looking it up, because to me it is all just ridiculous.

Obama himself said he wants to change the whole racist America thing and he knows he alone can not do it, but he is not a supporter of racist ideas.

So like I said, Obama did not say it, I do not know why he is getting a bad rap.

My own family is making stupid, racist remarks about obama now.

I love it when people say, "I saw a clip," and do not say where they saw it or if it is available on internet for others to watch.

oh, sorry,

I went on YouTube, searched for

WRIGHT

and one of the first few videos (2nd?) I saw was titled:

FOX Lies!! Irresponsible Media! Barack Obama Pastor Wright

but here's the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ

Well, watched the clip and I'm not sure there is any vindication for Jeramiah Wright in it.

The sermon comes shortly after 9-11 and it sounds like Wright was quick to blame the U.S. It sounds to me like he is saying that 9-11 is God inspired retribution on the U.S. for having taken the land away from the Native Americans, for bringing African Slaves to America, for dropping nuclear bombs on Japan, for bombing Libya, for invading Grenada, for military action in Somalia and maybe a couple of other things which I did not catch.

It sounds pretty anti America to me and how he moves from that tirade into the idea that our response should be self inspection is a mystery to me. The obligation for self inspection is ever present.

Even so, it does not appear to me that this is a topic in every Jeremiah Wright sermon. Nor is he alone in expressing these kinds of sentements. However, I vehemently disagree with him that 9-11 was God's retribution against the U.S. And I think, about the second such tirade from the pulpit in my mostly white church would send me to another church.

However, I vehemently disagree with him that 9-11 was God's retribution against the U.S.

I agree with you that 911 is not god's retribution (since I dont believe in God), I think its 'likely' to be a compartementalized inside job(with Pakistani, Saudi and Israeli complicity) to fabricate the 'War on Terror' as a blank check to invade other countries and get a choak hold on the last vestiges of democracy in the US, but since the media follows the official version I dont blame people for not sharing this analysis.

Most of what he says is radically opposed to the US government and is fair to an extent, except for the nonsense about the US government inventing HIV as a weapon against black people, that is just plain nonsense.

He doesn't seem to me to be an anti-American preacher, but more extremely distrustful of the US government, to an unreasonable extent.

except for the nonsense about the US government inventing HIV as a weapon against black people, that is just plain nonsense.

Yep I agree, although given
-the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment
-PNAC statement about bioweapon that can target specific races being a valuable political tool
-US army strain of Antrax Attack on Politicians and Media after 911
I cant blame them for being paranoid :wink:

I agree ice. And that's why I'm not hatin' on the man for what he said. And it pisses me off when people pass around emails about it when they have been sending racist Obama emails as well.
MOM!