Thread: China's Spying Balloon - You Spy, I Spy, We All Spy On Each Other, and Ourselves!

In what is likely the most profound example of a "trial balloon", the Chinese have sailed a high-altitude helium balloon over the continental U.S. the past few days. Countless news sources have reported it, and the Pentagon says it is equipped with substantial surveillance equipment and steering capability (1). The balloon has since been shot down, and recovery efforts are underway.

While the Chinese claim that it is a wayward weather balloon, experts say such balloons would not have an extensive range, and are not maneuverable. Its "wandering" over ICBM locations and a B-2 bomber base leaves little doubt about its mission. The Pentagon decided that shooting it down right away was not critical to defense, and may cause damage or injury on the ground.

Spying is probably as old as civilization, perhaps even older. It likely goes back to sexual activities between various individuals, or their means of obtaining food, etc. Of course the most significant aspect of spying is to obtain an advantage over an adversary, or keeping your own people in check. Both of these have a long history, and this is not surprising.

Many countries spy on their own people. The F.B.I. in the U.S. has spied on many of its citizens, and still does (2). Such activities happen, all over the world. Most governments have reasonable concern over the activities of people within their boarders, so internal spying is nothing new.

But this recent spy balloon episode, and the eye-in-the-sky means of tracking the activities of everything on the planet made me think about the F.B.I. spying on Americans. And it brought to mind an article published in the New York Times last year about the spying which goes on in China too, where the government keeps tabs on just about everyone by various high tech means. A direct link to this article has a paywall, but it can be read from various sources (3).

Spying is everywhere and is never going away. Always try to keep in mind that someone is probably watching!


"Chinese Spy Balloon Has Unexpected Maneuverability"

1. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...neuverability/


"Mass surveillance in the United States"

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_s..._United_States


" ‘An Invisible Cage’: How China Is Policing the Future"

3. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...future-police/

At last, I think they shot down a floating space jellyfish.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/They-Live-S...s=books&sr=1-1

Later news: Recent balloon over South America and Caribbean. During Trump presidency, several (?) were noticed, classified as UFO, but otherwise ignored.

Originally Posted by mathman

Later news: Recent balloon over South America and Caribbean. During Trump presidency, several (?) were noticed, classified as UFO, but otherwise ignored.

It appears that a number of these balloons have been flying around "undetected" or "unreported", until recently (1). They have almost zero heat signature and radar cannot readily pick them up. Apparently a number have flown over U.S. positions, and such operations have been observed elsewhere, recently by South Korea (2).

There are a number of notions about why these balloons were not previously reported by the Pentagon. It seems likely they knew about them all, but did not want this known to the Chinese. If they do not present a serious threat of any kind, it may be that the Pentagon was watching them to find out what they are up to. Letting China know that these balloons have been spotted might have limited their activities, and limit U.S. abilities to spy on the balloons. Once the latest one became world news, the Pentagon released information. That they did not shoot it down much earlier is open to debate.

There was a chance to shoot it down where falling debris would not have been such a risk. Instead, they allowed it to drift over the U.S., watching it closely with U-2s, etc, and jamming the hell out of it. They also wanted to see what it was capable of doing. With propellers and rudders, it became very clear that it was for surveillance (3). This was confirmed by its steering over a number of sensitive military installations.

It may very well have been allowed to traverse the U.S. to demonstrate to the world in a very dramatic fashion that China is spying on everyone, a very bad P.R. stunt that is not likely to be repeated. The whole world is now aware of these nefarious activities, and most will be watching for them, and all other aspects of spying China may be engaged in - from the air, and the ground.

Sometimes not telling all you know about something provides returns that are more valuable than the threat. That appears to be the case in this situation. What little was returned for China's efforts has made the rest of the world much more wary of all their activities.



"This wasn't the first Chinese balloon over the U.S. Why were the others ignored?"

1. https://www.npr.org/2023/02/06/11547...others-ignored



"North Korean balloon briefly spotted over South Korea, Seoul says"

2. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...ys-2023-02-06/



"How China's balloon over America steered its way into spying history"

3. https://www.reuters.com/world/how-ch...ry-2023-02-06/

There have now been a number of "balloons" shot down over North American since the initial spy balloon was downed off the U.S. east coast. The latest was shot down over Lake Huron (1). None of these most recent balloons appear as sophisticated as the first one shot down, but are likely surveillance platforms for various reasons.

Numerous news sources indicate that over 40 countries have been spied on by Chinese balloons over a number of years, based on newly released data from U.S. agencies (2). It seems unlikely that they just became aware of them considering this extensive database, suggesting that these balloons have been known and tracked for some time. We are left to wait for recovery efforts of debris, and the amount of data that the Pentagon will tell us about their capabilities, etc. It is a safe bet that these balloons are not being used for friendly reasons.


"U.S. downs unidentified object over Lake Huron, third destroyed since Chinese spy balloon"

1. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...loons-00082451


"China’s balloons are part of a strategy to beat the US on a new battlefield: ‘near space’ "

2. https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/09/china...hnk/index.html

I suppose the smaller objects could be Chinese lanterns fitted with spy technology.
A lot of talk about extra terrestrials.
But if it looks like our technology, which it does, then it is human technology.
Also gives a lot support to the idea that UFO's were spy technology all along.

An interesting overview of the U.S. Military's use of U-2 aircraft to obtain data on the Chinese spying balloon reveals why gathering intelligence was a primary factor in not shooting it down earlier*.

Quoting from Air Force Gen. Glen VanHerck, the head of NORAD and U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM) :

"So there was a potential opportunity for us to collect Intel where we had gaps on prior balloons. And so I would defer to the intel community but this gave us the opportunity to assess what they were actually doing, what kind of capabilities existed on the balloon, what kind of transmission capabilities existed," Gen. VanHerck himself stressed at the press conference today. "And I think you'll see in the future that that timeframe was well worth its value to collect."

end quote

This information was released in response to criticism regarding why it was not shot down sooner. There is little doubt that gathering intelligence on the balloon's capability was the primary reason for waiting. The article also provides interesting aspects about the value of those U-2s, and how they have been upgraded for just this sort of activity.


"U-2 Spy Planes Snooped On Chinese Surveillance Balloon"

* https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...llance-balloon