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Thread: Another weekend - more mass shootings

  1. #1 Another weekend - more mass shootings 
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    More mass shootings. Unbelievably heartbreaking. The "solutions'' that are being discussed to prevent these shootings, seem to be reactive, and not necessarily hitting the core problem. For starters, there seems to be too much power behind the gun lobbyists, to really bring about the change that is needed. I think that the conversation in the US needs to shift to...how can we change American culture?

    What are your thoughts/ideas?


    https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/04/us/th...roy/index.html




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  3. #2  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Its a hard one as 2 centuries of legal precident have been to ignore the "well regulated militia" portion of the second amendment, and gun culture at this point takes any sort of pversight as a violation of the amendment


    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  4. #3  
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    Some things are possible. Complete background checks. Ban large magazines. Ban military style weapons, such as assault rifles. The house has passed such a bill (I don't know all its provisions), but the senate (McConnell) refuses to take it up.
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  5. #4  
    ox
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    On the few occasions I've been to the US I've experienced a more violent society than in the UK.
    I saw people freely roaming the streets with mental disorders.
    I can only offer a few observations.

    There are strict gun laws in the UK.
    Police in the UK do not carry guns, but specially trained officers have access to them.
    The type of Christianity in the US is likely to be far more radical. I'm sure some people believe God wants them to carry a gun.
    England is sometimes described as having mild Christianity, even pagan.
    You won't find anything like 'In God we trust' or 'One nation under God'.
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  6. #5  
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    Christianity has nothing to do with the problem. It is primarily the second amendment and a too liberal interpretation by the courts, so that local communities have a hard time getting more restrictive laws passed.
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  7. #6  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    Agree mathman. There has to be in place more stringent laws to make it harder for socio/psychopaths to purchase guns. It doesn't help that the US culture seems to embrace violence...look at so many of Hollywood's movies, video games, sporting events, etc. I've never owned a gun, but I don't begrudge someone else from owning one, so long as he/she is responsible.
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  8. #7  
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    The rest of the world sees the same Hollywood movies and has the same video games, etc., but they don't have the kind of gun violence the U.S. has. Banning assault rifles and large magazines as well as more stringent background checks are needed.
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  9. #8  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    I would say actually requiring all guns to be registered with a government overseen militia that one has to belong to would be in keeping with the full second amendment
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  10. #9  
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    Just read this morning where English Football star Wayne Rooney and family are leaving the USA for home blaming gun violence. Rooney doesn’t want his kids to grow up just to be cut to pieces by some maniac with an assault rifle.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  11. #10  
    ox
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    From what I've heard his wife is worried about crime in the US.
    However it must be admitted that in some cities in the UK, especially London, there is a problem with knife crime.
    Probably one reason why he's chosen a relatively safe place like Derby.
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  12. #11  
    ox
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Christianity has nothing to do with the problem. It is primarily the second amendment and a too liberal interpretation by the courts, so that local communities have a hard time getting more restrictive laws passed.
    Am I wrong in thinking that all types of Christian extremes have found a home in America, starting with the Mayflower?
    The origin of the problem: defend your beliefs in any way possible.
    The NRA appear mild compared with a 'Christian gun nut' called Larry Pratt.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gun_Owners_of_America
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    On the few occasions I've been to the US I've experienced a more violent society than in the UK.
    I saw people freely roaming the streets with mental disorders.
    I can only offer a few observations.

    There are strict gun laws in the UK.
    Police in the UK do not carry guns, but specially trained officers have access to them.
    The type of Christianity in the US is likely to be far more radical. I'm sure some people believe God wants them to carry a gun.
    England is sometimes described as having mild Christianity, even pagan.
    You won't find anything like 'In God we trust' or 'One nation under God'.
    Having considered the views of, at least, one SF member posting about religion on this forum I am moving ever closer toward the hypothesis a powerful Secret Organisation does exist, possibly made up of many Christians plus other religious fanatics, and has constructed an elaborate and subtle plot to, eventually, spread its tentacles over a larger and larger region of this planet.
    Others may remain doubtful, but I would ask these individuals to consider the possibility many of the recent number of massive problems we have to face may not have happened simply by chance.
    Perhaps many of us living in the UK are too innocent, and yet also too cynical, to accept the value of even a small number of these conspiracy theories.
    This could be explained by the following insight above.
    "England is sometimes described as having mild Christianity, even pagan".
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  14. #13  
    ox
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday View Post
    I am moving ever closer toward the hypothesis a powerful Secret Organisation does exist, possibly made up of many Christians plus other religious fanatics, and has constructed an elaborate and subtle plot to, eventually, spread its tentacles over a larger and larger region of this planet.
    It's been going on for centuries.

    The Crusades (fighting Jews and Muslims).
    The Illuminati (originally from Bavaria).
    The Aryans and the secret chiefs (probably from Tibet, but became an inspiration for the Nazis).
    Skull and Bones. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._Bones_members ).
    Freemasons.
    Ku Klux Klan.
    Nearly fogot. Opus Dei. Who knows what goes on there because it's so secretive.

    And all of them more or less Christian.


    At school assembly I remember singing onward Christian soldiers marching as to war, and fight the good fight.
    Last edited by ox; August 14th, 2019 at 10:14 AM.
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  15. #14  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    We need to BAN assault rifles and ban any clip over 10 shots.....and no purchasing a weapon at a gun show without a background check and that is probably not enough.
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  16. #15  
    Samurai of Logic Falconer360's Avatar
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    I would say that the biggest challenge we face in this isn't passing legislation but changing the cultural attitude the US has about firearms. Every one of my gun nut friends seems to think that having a gun equates safety. It's used as an adult security blanket for them. To them having guns in the house means that they and their families are safe from intruders. To them, carrying a gun means they are safe from assault/mugging/rape/animal attack. Even though the evidence points to there being no real increase in net safety from either of those things. Having a gun in the house makes you more likely to accidentally shoot a family rather than an intruder. Most assaults, muggings, animal attacks, etc happen so quickly that a person carrying a firearms doesn't even have time or the opportunity to draw it (that guy in Montana who was mauled by a Grizzly comes to mind).
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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  17. #16  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    I would say that the biggest challenge we face in this isn't passing legislation but changing the cultural attitude the US has about firearms. Every one of my gun nut friends seems to think that having a gun equates safety. It's used as an adult security blanket for them. To them having guns in the house means that they and their families are safe from intruders. To them, carrying a gun means they are safe from assault/mugging/rape/animal attack. Even though the evidence points to there being no real increase in net safety from either of those things. Having a gun in the house makes you more likely to accidentally shoot a family rather than an intruder. Most assaults, muggings, animal attacks, etc happen so quickly that a person carrying a firearms doesn't even have time or the opportunity to draw it (that guy in Montana who was mauled by a Grizzly comes to mind).

    My husband grew up in a deer hunting family. My kids hunted and occasionally still do. We always had the hunting rifles in the house......guns one location ammo locked in a totally different place. We never worried. They had to be certified to get the licenses and that included gun rifle range and gun training...…..but we have no handguns that I know of.....and the hunting rifles carry 6 bullets and they are not automatics.....*snicker* ya gotta shift them!!

    I agree, Falconer, that the attitude of the USA about these weapons needs an attitude adjustment.
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  18. #17  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    apologies
    Last edited by babe; August 19th, 2019 at 02:39 AM. Reason: duplicate
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  19. #18  
    Samurai of Logic Falconer360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    My husband grew up in a deer hunting family. My kids hunted and occasionally still do. We always had the hunting rifles in the house......guns one location ammo locked in a totally different place. We never worried. They had to be certified to get the licenses and that included gun rifle range and gun training...…..but we have no handguns that I know of.....and the hunting rifles carry 6 bullets and they are not automatics.....*snicker* ya gotta shift them!!

    I agree, Falconer, that the attitude of the USA about these weapons needs an attitude adjustment.
    See that's sensible to me. Guns were a tool and not safety blanket. I grew up in a home similar to that.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
    - Yagyu Munenori

    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
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  20. #19  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    My husband grew up in a deer hunting family. My kids hunted and occasionally still do. We always had the hunting rifles in the house......guns one location ammo locked in a totally different place. We never worried. They had to be certified to get the licenses and that included gun rifle range and gun training...…..but we have no handguns that I know of.....and the hunting rifles carry 6 bullets and they are not automatics.....*snicker* ya gotta shift them!!

    I agree, Falconer, that the attitude of the USA about these weapons needs an attitude adjustment.
    See that's sensible to me. Guns were a tool and not safety blanket. I grew up in a home similar to that.
    Precisely.
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