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Thread: President trump.

  1. #1 President trump. 
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    I was looking at UK television today, and watched part of a speech by Trump.
    I was struck by what I saw as a remarkable resemblance to the Italian fascist dictator, Benito Mussolini, who ruled Italy before, and during, WW2.
    After making a point Mussolini often used to look around and stick his jaw out - a ridiculous gesture!
    I see Trump as having the same mannerism.
    Or is that just me?
    On a completely different matter I am concerned about the unity of the Democratic Party in the future.
    If there are problems between the Sanders supporters and the element of the party still believing in centrist policies this could well be a boost for Trump.


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    Trump is in the mold of a lot of tin pot dictators. Low information, high self-esteem, surrounds himself with acolytes instead of advisors. The less said about him the better.

    The Democrats are united around opposition to Trump, but little else. If/when they win back Congressional majorities in November it'll be up to them to come up with an agenda. I'm not sure Middle America is ready for a Sanders-style socialized medicine & education platform just yet. That pendulum hasn't swung yet


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    Watching him give a speech sometimes might give you the impression he's a full-on dictator, certainly it's hard not to see him in a certain light from some of the language he chooses in relation to minorities & people of colour. I'm just not sure this is the whole story.

    I'd be astonished if by now everyone in America, most likely much further, hasn't heard all about the dubious activities from his past e.g. bankruptcies, women, Trump University etc.. Now when you also consider the demographics of those benefitting from his policies vis-à-vis those who have suffered from them, again, it can't help but create a certain impression.

    Perhaps the first thing we need to do is actually separate Mr Trump from the policies which are specifically Republican e.g. his massive tax cut for the wealthy & cracking down on immigrants are both policies it's easy to envision any other Republican President might have done in his place, the same may be said of the deregulating which has been done across the board, his weakening of the EPA and the tough talk on gun regulation which came to nothing.

    Forget the Mueller investigation, his strange behaviour towards Russia & Putin is more concerning, objectively can anyone look at that and not think there is some issue there! The whole notion of Mexico paying for a border wall or getting a Special Prosecutor to investigate Hillary Clinton seemed childish nonsense and now appears to have been conveniently forgotten about. The way he's set about supposedly trying to protect coal miners though is somewhat disturbing, essentially damaging the renewables industry, setting America back in a technology the entire world now recognises as the future.

    The President's trade war is a head scratcher, nonsensical tariffs have already cost jobs in America and left him catching real heat from farmers being whacked by counter tariffs on the US. Effectively, these are his own supporters and he's still had to give them a $12 billion subsidy to quell discontent, although how long even that will last is anyone's guess.

    On balance though, maybe surprisingly to some, I don't think Donald Trump is a dictator, I don't even think he's actually a racist, (the reason for this being I think in order to be a racist you've got to have some level of awareness of your own prejudice and whilst I do think he has prejudices I don't think he's aware of them, certainly he doesn't appear to me to see himself as a racist).

    I don't think Donald Trump is particularly intelligent, I wouldn't describe him as stupid either, in my opinion, it's his lack of knowledge & unwillingness to learn, rather than his lack of ability or being capable of learning, which makes him appear less intelligent than he probably is. Furthermore, his habitual lying doesn't do anything for his image and this notion of him behaving like a child that was picked up in Micheal Wolff's book and so often quoted from his former staff is a major issue.

    In fairness to the President though, I should also point out that from everybody on the planet few could match his determination or level of self-confidence & belief. Equally, he has an undeniable charm, by which it's easy to understand quite why so many Americans have been seduced.

    Overall, I don't think Donald Trump's own issues are anywhere near as dangerous as the rightwing ideology & policies that he as a Republican President is actually responsible for implementing. There has been surely far too much focus upon Donald Trump the man and far too little on the effects of his rightwing policies.

    Just to touch on the Democrats, something's happening now over them having to either choose to side with their voters or go with their financial backers, this is what appears to be causing some tension. Does a voter want a candidate that works towards their interests e.g. universal health care, higher wages, free access to higher education etc.. or would they prefer a candidate who will vote to keep wages low so their big corporate sponsors have lower wage bills and votes to spend money funding wars instead of healthcare so defence contractors make more profits, I think this is the issue facing Democratic voters.

    Who should hold the most power within the Democratic party, those who raise the most money, or those with the most voter support and who are committed to doing more for their voters, this appears to be more soul-searching going on within this party.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I don't think Donald Trump is a dictator, I don't even think he's actually a racist, (the reason for this being I think in order to be a racist you've got to have some level of awareness of your own prejudice and whilst I do think he has prejudices I don't think he's aware of them, certainly he doesn't appear to me to see himself as a racist).
    One can be an UNCONSCIOUS racist and one can certainly be racist without meaning any ill will to other races. It’s enough to view other races as fundamentally different from your own, and this Donald Trump most certainly believes. He may not be a “white supremacist” in believing that his own race is supreme, but he certainly sees black and brown people as less capable or less accomplished.

    Of course his father Frederick Christ Trump was associated (if not actually a member*) with the Ku Klux Klan, and was sued by the DOJ in 1973 for refusing to rent to Blacks. Donald grew up in that atmosphere, and it’s deeply ingrained in him. He probably thinks he is fair to all races, and even has gone so far as to allow a “token Black” in his Cabinet.


    *-His actual membership has not been established. However he was arrested in 1927 at a Klan rally, apparently wearing Klan robes.
    Last edited by NoCoPilot; August 17th, 2018 at 10:29 PM.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday View Post
    I was looking at UK television today, and watched part of a speech by Trump.
    I was struck by what I saw as a remarkable resemblance to the Italian fascist dictator, Benito Mussolini, who ruled Italy before, and during, WW2.
    After making a point Mussolini often used to look around and stick his jaw out - a ridiculous gesture!
    I see Trump as having the same mannerism.
    Or is that just me?



    No ,it sticks out a mile

    On a completely different matter I am concerned about the unity of the Democratic Party in the future.
    If there are problems between the Sanders supporters and the element of the party still believing in centrist policies this could well be a boost for Trump.

    Yes that is troubling . There should we a very wide consensus among all parties and none that a huge mistake was made by somehow electing such a person into high office of any kind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday View Post
    I was looking at UK television today, and watched part of a speech by Trump.
    I was struck by what I saw as a remarkable resemblance to the Italian fascist dictator, Benito Mussolini, who ruled Italy before, and during, WW2.
    After making a point Mussolini often used to look around and stick his jaw out - a ridiculous gesture!
    I see Trump as having the same mannerism.
    Or is that just me?



    No ,it sticks out a mile

    On a completely different matter I am concerned about the unity of the Democratic Party in the future.
    If there are problems between the Sanders supporters and the element of the party still believing in centrist policies this could well be a boost for Trump.

    Yes that is troubling . There should we a very wide consensus among all parties and none that a huge mistake was made by somehow electing such a person into high office of any kind.
    There goes Democracy dude.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wilson View Post
    There goes Democracy dude.
    American democracy has been under assault for a while... dude.

    Way too many congressional districts are gerrymandered (by BOTH parties) to the point where they no longer represent the demographics of the electorate.

    The Electoral College gives too much power to small states, to the point where a candidate can lose the general election by three million votes and still win.

    Citizens United was a deeply flawed Supreme Court case, allowing unconstitutional influence on our elections by sources of money having nothing to do with democracy.

    The advantages of incumbency mean that career politicians work for their own benefit, and the benefit of their contributors, rather than the voters.

    The checks-and-balances that have maintained equilibrium in our tri-parte government are being torn apart by ideologue partisanship which gives too much power to individuals and not enough to consensus.

    i could go on, but you get the idea. Our democracy has never been as vulnerable to collapse as it is today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Reich
    Don’t Impeach Trump. Annul His Presidency
    - by Robert Reich

    The only way I see the end of Trump is if there’s overwhelming evidence he rigged the 2016 election. In which case impeachment isn’t an adequate remedy. His presidency should be annulled.

    Let me explain. Many people are convinced we’re already witnessing the beginning of the end of Trump.

    In their view, bombshell admissions from Trump insiders with immunity from prosecution, combined with whatever evidence Mueller uncovers about Trump’s obstruction of justice and his aide’s collusion with the Russians, will all tip the scales.

    Democrats will take back the House and begin an impeachment, and the evidence of impeachable offenses will put enough pressure on Republican senators to send Trump packing.

    I don’t believe this for a moment.

    First, the Senate has never in history convicted a president of impeachment.

    Second, even if Democrats flip the House in November, Republicans will almost certainly remain in control of the Senate – and so far they’ve displayed the integrity of lizards.

    Third, Fox News and the rest of the right-wing sleaze media will continue to distort and cover up whatever the evidence shows – convincing 35 to 40 percent of Americans, along with most Republicans, that Trump is the innocent victim of a plot to remove him.

    Finally, Trump himself will never voluntarily resign, as did Nixon. He’ll lie and claim a conspiracy to unseat him.

    He’s proven himself a superb conman, an entertainer-demagogue capable of sowing so much confusion and instigating so much hate and paranoia that he has already survived outrages that would have broken any garden-variety loathsome president – Helsinki, Charlottesville, children locked in cages at the border, firings and cover-ups, racist slurs, clear corruption.

    In all likelihood, we’ll have him for another two and a half years.

    Don’t bet the house on him losing in 2020, either. A malignant bullying megalomaniac who lies like most people breathe, and who’s able to suck the oxygen out of every news cycle, might pulverize any Democratic opponent.

    Even if he loses in 2020, we’ll be fortunate if he concedes without being literally carried out of the Oval Office amid the stirrings of civil insurgency.

    Oh, and let me remind you that even if he’s impeached, we’d still have his loathsome administration – Pence on down.

    But lest you fall into a miasma of gloom, there’s another scenario – unlikely, but entirely possible.

    Suppose, just suppose, Robert Mueller finds overwhelming and indisputable evidence that Trump conspired with Putin to rig the 2016 election, and the rigging determined the election’s outcome.

    In other words, Trump’s presidency is not authorized under the United States Constitution.

    Suppose these findings are so compelling that even Trump loyalists desert him, the Republican Party decides it has had enough, and Fox News calls for his impeachment.

    What then? Impeachment isn’t enough.

    Impeachment would remedy Trump’s “high crimes and misdemeanors.” But impeachment would not remedy Trump’s unconstitutional presidency because it would leave in place his vice president, White House staff and Cabinet, as well as all the executive orders he issued and all the legislation he signed, and the official record of his presidency.

    The only response to an unconstitutional presidency is to annul it. Annulment would repeal all of an unconstitutional president’s appointments and executive actions, and would eliminate the official record of the presidency.

    Annulment would recognize that all such appointments, actions, and records were made without constitutional authority.

    The Constitution does not specifically provide for annulment of an unconstitutional presidency. But read as a whole, the Constitution leads to the logical conclusion that annulment is the appropriate remedy for one.

    After all, the Supreme Court declares legislation that doesn’t comport with the Constitution null and void, as if it had never been passed.

    It would logically follow that the Court could declare all legislation and executive actions of a presidency unauthorized by the Constitution to be null and void, as if Trump had never been elected.

    The Constitution also gives Congress and the states the power to amend the Constitution, thereby annulling or altering whatever provisions came before. Here, too, it would logically follow that Congress and the states could, through amendment, annul a presidency they determine to be unconstitutional.

    As I’ve said, my betting is Trump remains president at least through 2020 – absent compelling and indisputable evidence he rigged the 2016 election.

    But if such evidence comes forth, impeachment isn’t an adequate remedy because Trump’s presidency would be constitutionally illegitimate.

    It should be annulled.
    I agree wholeheartedly with Reich, and have said much the same thing.

    But it’s also undeniable that to vacate an election has never been done before, much less reversing all of his presidential directives and judge appointments. The result would be a Putin-pleasing catastrophe.

    I’m sure Mueller is mulling this over, and is aware that not all remedies are equally possible. We are now so close to the November mid-terms that I don’t really expect him to conclude this year. He’ll wait and see what a new Democratic House can do to rein in the rodeo clown, and maybe in ‘19 or early ‘20 he’ll deliver the coup de grace to the injured president.

    If Pence is also indicted, we’ll be looking at a constitutional crisis anyway. The new Speaker of the House will be a Democrat, so that will, for all intents and purposes, remedy the stolen election of 2016.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I don't think Donald Trump is particularly intelligent, I wouldn't describe him as stupid either, in my opinion. In fairness to the President though, I should also point out that from everybody on the planet few could match his determination or level of self-confidence & belief.
    There's really only one thing one needs to know about Donald Trump, and that is he likes seeing his name everywhere. He emblazons it in 20-foot tall letters on every building he leases, he puts it on (failed) wine bottles, on (failed) steaks, on (failed) universities, on (failed) airlines, on jewelry, clothing, accessories, anything he can think of. He REALLY LIKES seeing that name.

    And it doesn't matter to him if the products are any good. He's just as happy with total crap (in fact I think he prefers it!) Just seeing his name is all that matters to him. It's "his brand," his mark, his peeing on everything to mark his territory.

    That's why headlines bearing his name tickle him so much. It doesn't matter if the news is good or bad, real or made-up, worthwhile or just puff pieces just so long as his name is spelled right. And he likes it when they print it REALLY BIG, the bigger the better. He wants to dominate every news cycle, he wants to be talked about every day, he wants everyone to be obsessed with everything he does. He is the quintessential "reality TV" personality, to whom fame and infamy are synonymous, to whom airtime is everything, to whom seeing himself on TV screens and on magazine covers and newspaper headlines is perfect validation that everybody knows who he is.

    That's all he wants really.
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