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Thread: When will cops stop shooting black men for no apparent reason? I think the answer is that ....

  1. #1 When will cops stop shooting black men for no apparent reason? I think the answer is that .... 
    Forum Professor jrmonroe's Avatar
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    We all know the scenario. A police officer approaches a black man for some reason, legitimate or not. USually after an exchange of words, the officer pulls a gun for a variety of reasons, the black man may be at fault for not following the officer's orders exactly, and the officer then plugs the black man full of lead. There is usually some justification for the actions of the officer, but all too often it is not complete justification.

    This link shows the cop's dashcam of the police shooting of Philando Castile.
    The police officer was found innocent at trial. Protesters are now protesting.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQDTDbFmPHg

    In the case against the shooter of Philando Castile, apparently not enough people on the jury knew the meaning of the spontaneous utterance of "Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck!" by the police officer who shot Castile. For those of us who can understand those utterances, they mean, essentially, "Fuck [I didn't mean to shoot him]! Fuck [that didn't go the way it should have]! Fuck [I'm fucked]! etc.

    So, to answer the question, When will cops stop shooting black men for no apparent reason, I think the answer is that it already has stopped because Barack Obama is no longer president.

    Now, its this all simply a matter of prejudiced police who are unable to claim that Obama is not American. Or is it simply matter of black men who think they are above the law because one of their own was in the White House now? IT could be a mix of both.

    You may not agree, but has there been such a shooting since Obama left? I think not.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    In the case against the shooter of Philando Castile, apparently not enough people on the jury knew the meaning of the spontaneous utterance of "Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck!" by the police officer who shot Castile. For those of us who can understand those utterances, they mean, essentially, "Fuck [I didn't mean to shoot him]! Fuck [that didn't go the way it should have]! Fuck [I'm fucked]! etc.

    So, to answer the question, When will cops stop shooting black men for no apparent reason, I think the answer is that it already has stopped because Barack Obama is no longer president.

    Now, its this all simply a matter of prejudiced police who are unable to claim that Obama is not American. Or is it simply matter of black men who think they are above the law because one of their own was in the White House now? IT could be a mix of both.

    You may not agree, but has there been such a shooting since Obama left? I think not.
    Its not only a black person issue.

    google Justine Damond. Same state as Castile. And its not just people. Same state as Damond and Castile:

    Woman Says Mpls. Cop Responding To Alarm Shot Her 2 Dogs « WCCO | CBS Minnesota

    It is a nationwide problem and its not a black issue only. The basic problem is described well in this Atlantic article:

    In too much of policing today, officer safety has become the highest priority. It trumps the rights and safety of suspects. It trumps the rights and safety of bystanders. It’s so important, in fact, that an officer’s subjective fear of a minor wound from a dog bite is enough to justify using potentially lethal force, in this case at the expense of a 4-year-old girl.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...licing/533319/


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    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
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    The Obama connection may well reflect the greater confidence that many black people felt during his term of office, this possibly being interpreted as power & threatening to police officers, though under Trump, people haven't displayed such open confidence, instead appearing more subdued in demeanor which the officers have deemed as being docile, thus posing less of a threat to their safety.

    However, I'm not really convinced quite how often any kind of prejudice 'consciously' comes into play, it seems likely this may occur, but on every occasion, this seems somewhat unlikely. Possibly societal influences in the way that we are being encouraged to think about people from different races is a factor that also affects the behaviour of officers.

    The media portrayal for many years of black people wasn't often as being docile or subservient, instead tending to either depict them as being athletes & sports stars or criminals & gang members, usually with very little in between, at some level, this powerful imagery has to have had an influence on people's feelings, including those of police officers.

    Whilst we all know that racism is wrong and we, at least on a conscious level, can respect and treat people from other races as equals, I don't think we always experience this same level of control over our feelings and emotions. I think police officers 'feel', black people pose a higher threat to them which might also explain some of the shootings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    However, I'm not really convinced quite how often any kind of prejudice 'consciously' comes into play, it seems likely this may occur, but on every occasion, this seems somewhat unlikely. Possibly societal influences in the way that we are being encouraged to think about people from different races is a factor that also affects the behaviour of officers.

    The media portrayal for many years of black people wasn't often as being docile or subservient, instead tending to either depict them as being athletes & sports stars or criminals & gang members, usually with very little in between, at some level, this powerful imagery has to have had an influence on people's feelings, including those of police officers.
    I think you nailed it. Well, that and we're letting a lot of law enforcement get off the hook for merely convincing a jury that they were fearful, instead of being weighed against the idea whether someone in their profession should have been fearful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    However, I'm not really convinced quite how often any kind of prejudice 'consciously' comes into play, it seems likely this may occur, but on every occasion, this seems somewhat unlikely. Possibly societal influences in the way that we are being encouraged to think about people from different races is a factor that also affects the behaviour of officers.

    The media portrayal for many years of black people wasn't often as being docile or subservient, instead tending to either depict them as being athletes & sports stars or criminals & gang members, usually with very little in between, at some level, this powerful imagery has to have had an influence on people's feelings, including those of police officers.
    I think you nailed it. Well, that and we're letting a lot of law enforcement get off the hook for merely convincing a jury that they were fearful, instead of being weighed against the idea whether someone in their profession should have been fearful.
    Cheers Lynx. I agree, the disproportionate force being displayed by officers in situations where unarmed black people have been shot strongly suggests serious issues with training specifically their threat assessment & response performance.
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    The USA is racially divided, just like many other countries in the world. The USA is politically divided just like many other countries in the world. Looking back at the American Civil War, a whole lot of white folks died to end slavery. Do they get any thanks from modern day, Black/African Americans ? They most certainly do not, and the black supremacists just keep marching on.
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    Forum Professor jrmonroe's Avatar
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    I thank all of you for contributing here with some very good thoughts and comments. I especially thank Ascended for the consideration that he applied to this topic and his well-written response.

    As I have said here and in other threads. I sometimes feel the need to voice ideas to alert the public to thought processes as alternatives to the "reality" that the media portrays, which more and more people seem to latch onto hook, line and sinker.

    My greater concern is that the American public is slowly losing its ability to think independently of what the so-called "experts" say.

    At least those in power here haven't trashed this thread ... yet.
    Grief is the price we pay for love. (CM Parkes) Our postillion has been struck by lightning. (Unknown) War is always the choice of the chosen who will not have to fight. (Bono) The years tell much what the days never knew. (RW Emerson) Reality is not always probable, or likely. (JL Borges)
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post

    As I have said here and in other threads. I sometimes feel the need to voice ideas to alert the public to thought processes as alternatives to the "reality" that the media portrays, which more and more people seem to latch onto hook, line and sinker.

    My greater concern is that the American public is slowly losing its ability to think independently of what the so-called "experts" say.

    At least those in power here haven't trashed this thread ... yet.
    Hey jr, we have entered strange times where certainty no longer exists, do any of us still trust anything we read, see or hear without double checking it, checking again and once more for good measure?

    It appears almost as if a kind of blame game is taking place, where everywhere you look it is as if someone or other thinks this type of person or that group of people are the cause of all our problems, that because they may be different or don't always agree with a particular viewpoint that they are wrong or somehow stupid, yet surely this kind of thinking doesn't achieve anything positive.

    We have entered an era of shades of grey where not everything is black & white, the importance of trying to understand the viewpoint of others seems far more constructive than being angry because they've said something that may appear at first glance discriminatory or inflammatory, the truth can be subjective, all too often arguments arising that seem oblivious to context or perspective, things just aren't always the same for everybody, such things forgotten.

    After the EU referendum here in Britain, I felt very angry towards those who had voted for Brexit, for a time I even tried to persuade myself to buy into the stereotype that they were all somehow stupid & racist, but that isn't the reality. Just because I didn't understand their reasoning, perhaps in a way I didn't even try because I didn't want to, doesn't make them bad people or people I should insult or ignore, you don't learn anything by insulting or ignoring people you don't agree, you learn far more by understanding what motivates their thinking, this is a lesson I had to learn! It doesn't mean that if a Brexit voter says something that I consider wrong or discriminatory I'm not still going to point that out, but what it does mean that I'm not judging them, instead I'm making the effort to understand their viewpoint, why they have said or acted or voted in that particular way, because for them they had a valid reason, once I learn what that is then we can have a sensible debate.

    But a better, let's give someone the benefit of the doubt approach is what I think is needed to help heal the divisions in society, there has to be a genuine effort by people with different viewpoints not to judge each just because they have reached different conclusions on a particular issue. What happened in America with the sharp divisions down political lines in many ways mirrors what happened here in the UK over Brexit, you have society polarised into taking a position and then, for all intensive purposes, becoming closed off and only listening to the sources of information, i.e. the experts, politicians & celebs etc.., that reinforces the position they already hold. Resulting in one camp constantly accusing the other of fake news & vice-versa with nobody ever being completely one hundred percent sure of the true facts.

    Hope remains, hope that eventually common sense and intelligence will prevail, can people seriously want to be divided or perhaps always feeling as if the news or even experts are lying to them? Surely eventually people themselves of all persuasions, politics & religions etc.., will demand the end of any & every kind of propaganda or spin, a return to honest reporting of the facts, a new age of ensuring high journalistic standards of integrity where the news is the news and there are no alternative facts!
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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