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Thread: Brexit Progress Update

  1. #101  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    probably?

    Cite your source that there is doubt...

    Also walk us though how your not a xenophobe again.....
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  2. #102  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    As for the remarks about food, only a Brexshitter would be stupid enough to think McDonalds, Kentucky Fried Chicken or Indian food are something to do with the European Union.
    We don't need the American and Indian foods or any other exotics.
    I hope all those fancy foreign restaurants close down through staff shortages.
    We did well enough historically on simple local sourced foods of meat, fish, eggs, potatoes and dairy.
    Look at the British Army website for dietary advice.

    Think rather of French, Spanish and Italian cheese, wine and charcuterie, the pizza and pasta dishes we all enjoy so much, Belgian beer and moules frites, etc.
    Our cheese is infinitely better. Don't drink myself but I'm told our beer is better.
    Don't like anything Italian.
    As for charcuterie and moules frites, I don't know what they are and don't care.
    You probably also hate Asian, Mediterranean, and Mexican foods as well. You can't seriously be this bland of a person? You have to be trolling us. Hell the way you put it, you might as well stop all international trade. No more chocolate for you or coffee.
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  3. #103  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    It appears things are becoming a little clearer now.
    How stupid to think the EU are not after one item only, and that is money.
    They want to teach us a lesson just in case any other nation considers leaving.
    There will no escape from cEUlditz.
    I think it proves what a nasty organisation the EU is and why we are right to leave.
    Opinion without support.

    The Battle of Waterloo was won on meat from English farms.
    Rubbish. The vast majority of troops (and officers) relied on foraging (i.e. stealing whatever they could find from local producers):
    The whole of the 17th [the day before the battle], and indeed until late the next morning, the weather continued dreadful; and we were starving with hunger, no provision having been served out since the march from Brussels. While five officers who composed our mess were looking at each other with the most deplorable faces imaginable, one of the men brought us a fowl he had plundered, and a handful of biscuits, which, though but little, added to some tea we boiled in a camp-kettle... Here.
    fighting was fed by foraging, which made up for direly insufficient rations.
    Here.
    And:
    Following victory, the trouble with provisions continued. Some British soldiers ‘slept supperless in the fields’; others hunting for sustenance found French huts full of meat which was dealt with so hurriedly that it was rendered inedible: Same link as above.
    Do please try to keep your nationalism in reign to the facts.
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  4. #104  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    The increase in reported 'hate crimes' was expected. The stats are skewed because more people are likely to report it.
    So you have gone from not knowing that it existed to saying it was expected and also knowing the reasons behind it. The very definition of revisionism.
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  5. #105  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    We don't need the American and Indian foods or any other exotics.
    I hope all those fancy foreign restaurants close down through staff shortages.
    We did well enough historically on simple local sourced foods of meat, fish, eggs, potatoes and dairy.
    Look at the British Army website for dietary advice.

    Our cheese is infinitely better. Don't drink myself but I'm told our beer is better.
    Don't like anything Italian.
    As for charcuterie and moules frites, I don't know what they are and don't care.

    I know that, but I'm trying to figure out why you mentioned it.

    Soldiers that are fed on real meat have an advantage. That does not mean just prior to battle. The physique and muscle are there already.
    The 1950s called; they wan't their opinions back.

    Luckily, because we live in a democracy, these sort of pathetic, narrow-minded, bigoted attitudes carry no weight. Even most readers of the Daily Mail like to travel the world and eat foreign food.
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  6. #106  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Here in the US, there are a lot of white supremacists...
    In contrast there are virtually none in England which is one of the most tolerant nations on earth.
    The irony / hypocrisy of YOU saying that is simply staggering.
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  7. #107  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    The worst country of all for personal safety, in my experience, is the US.
    Just goes to show that you shouldn't base your opinions on personal experience.
    https://www.atlasandboots.com/most-d...-world-ranked/

    The world is (thankfully) slightly bigger than your mind.
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  8. #108  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    The worst country of all for personal safety, in my experience, is the US.
    Just goes to show that you shouldn't base your opinions on personal experience.
    https://www.atlasandboots.com/most-d...-world-ranked/

    The world is (thankfully) slightly bigger than your mind.
    Yikes, still damn troubling that US is more dangerous than places like Uganda and Rwanda.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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  9. #109  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    The worst country of all for personal safety, in my experience, is the US.
    Just goes to show that you shouldn't base your opinions on personal experience.
    https://www.atlasandboots.com/most-d...-world-ranked/

    The world is (thankfully) slightly bigger than your mind.
    Again, personal abuse is directed from you to me. Not great.
    Of the least dangerous 20 countries originally listed , I have visited 17 of them. The US is the 50th most dangerous and the UK comes in at 122.
    Of the 20 most dangerous, I have visited 3, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Turkey.
    But don't you realise that I have been a traveller in time.
    I have not visited any country recently, but I know all about the gun and knife culture in some US cities and I will assume that has not changed.
    I wouldn't go to Afghanistan now but when I did go it felt as safe as any place I've been.
    It's actually nice to find people who aren't just after your money in some places. I recommend Malaysia, but not Singapore.
    No way would I recommend the US. Even so, I suppose they must be trying to escape, somehow. Might be something to do with only having 2 weeks holiday a year.
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  10. #110  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Rubbish. The vast majority of troops (and officers) relied on foraging (i.e. stealing whatever they could find from local producers):
    The whole of the 17th [the day before the battle], and indeed until late the next morning, the weather continued dreadful; and we were starving with hunger, no provision having been served out since the march from Brussels. While five officers who composed our mess were looking at each other with the most deplorable faces imaginable, one of the men brought us a fowl he had plundered, and a handful of biscuits, which, though but little, added to some tea we boiled in a camp-kettle... Here.
    fighting was fed by foraging, which made up for direly insufficient rations.
    Here.
    And:
    Following victory, the trouble with provisions continued. Some British soldiers ‘slept supperless in the fields’; others hunting for sustenance found French huts full of meat which was dealt with so hurriedly that it was rendered inedible: Same link as above.
    Do please try to keep your nationalism in reign to the facts.
    Kind of proves that the British could help win a battle on empty stomachs, while the French had full bellies.
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  11. #111  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    But don't you realise that I have been a traveller in time.
    Nurse! He's out of bed again!
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  12. #112  
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  13. #113  
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  14. #114  
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  15. #115  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    This is quite good!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    We don't need the American and Indian foods or any other exotics.
    When you say "we" I assume you are referring to white nationalists. (Because most of the UK people I know quite like foods from the rest of the world.)
    We did well enough historically on simple local sourced foods of meat, fish, eggs, potatoes and dairy
    Look at the British Army website for dietary advice.
    From Wikipedia:

    =========
    Obesity in the United Kingdom isa significant contemporary health concern, with officials stating that it is one of the leading preventable causes of death. In February 2016, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt described rising rates of childhood obesity as a "national emergency".
    Data published . . in 2014 indicated that 28.1% of adults in the United Kingdom were recognised as clinically obese with a BMI greater than 30. In 2014 62% of adults in England were classified as overweight (a body mass index of 25 or above) or obese, compared to 53% 20 years earlier. More than two-thirds of men and almost six in 10 women are overweight or obese.
    =========

    So perhaps there are better sources for dietary advice.

    Don't drink myself but I'm told our beer is better.
    San Diego has some of the best beer in the world. Which is odd at first, because we really only have one style that we've developed here (west coast pale/west coast IPA.) The real reason we are known for our beer is that we do so many styles of it - Belgians, pilsners, stouts, barrel aged beers, sours/lambics, fruit based beers, session ales, porters, bocks, wheats, Oktoberfest beers, barleywines etc. There are now over 150 breweries in San Diego making over $2 billion a year and employing almost ten thousand people. Last year Ballast Point was purchased by the Constellation beer group for $1 billion. (This was a brewery started by a guy I knew for years, who started out in a tiny homebrew shop downtown.)

    In other words, the willingness to import other beer styles (and make them our own) has made the San Diego brewing scene what it is today.
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  17. #117  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Don't drink myself but I'm told our beer is better.
    Presumably it was your white-nationalist, racist mates who told you that.
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  18. #118  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    ... Data published . . in 2014 indicated that 28.1% of adults in the United Kingdom were recognised as clinically obese with a BMI greater than 30
    Quite a lot is down to the imported American junk food culture, but still some way to catch up with the USA.

    https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html

    San Diego has some of the best beer in the world.
    Please keep it there.
    Always glad to hear reports of UK pubs closing down. About 25% have closed since 2005.
    It means healthier lifestyles and less anti social behaviour. People living nearby can get a good night's sleep.

    Bad news for Remoaners:

    Unemployment at near record low and virtually full employment.
    Exports at record high.
    Immigration policy being hatched and expected to be announced by the end of the year.

    White supremacy!
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41172505

    They are white?
    Last edited by ox; September 6th, 2017 at 04:59 AM.
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  19. #119  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Bad news for Remoaners:

    Unemployment at near record low and virtually full employment.
    Despite all those foreigners coming and stealing our jobs? This very obviously has nothing to do with Brexit because IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET. Sheesh.

    You are not making much sense.
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  20. #120  
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    Just like Thatcher once said in the Commons to the Labour Party - 'They can't stand good news can they.'

    Brexit could even save the world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iPaiylUYW0
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  21. #121  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Just like Thatcher once said in the Commons to the Labour Party - 'They can't stand good news can they.'
    But the good news has nothing to do with Brexit. And, if anything, shows that your fear of foreigners stealing White Men's Jobs is unfounded.

    Your own "good news" undermines your reasons for Brexit. All you have left is your dislike of foreign food. Well, that isn't going to change after Brexit, either. But maybe you will get a blue passport, then everything will be OK.
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  22. #122  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quite a lot is down to the imported American junk food culture, but still some way to catch up with the USA.
    Yes. Here in the US, a lot of people are into the "simple local sourced foods of meat, fish, eggs, potatoes and dairy." Hence the problems with obesity. Fortunately, other people are learning that a meat, cheese and potato diet isn't the best idea, if your goal is living to a ripe old age.
    San Diego has some of the best beer in the world.
    Please keep it there.
    Too late. Stone Brewing is opening breweries in Germany, and the last time I was in Banbury the coolers in the better stores were at least 25% US beers - and about half of _those_ were West Coast beers.

    But the UK is catching up, adopting evil, unsightly foreign styles (Belgians, Pilsners, barrel aging, West Coast IPA's, Lambics) to open their own breweries. Horrible isn't it.
    Always glad to hear reports of UK pubs closing down. About 25% have closed since 2005.
    It means healthier lifestyles and less anti social behaviour. People living nearby can get a good night's sleep.
    ===========
    Craft beer boom: 500 craft breweries open in a year in the UKBy Rachel Arthur+, 14-Mar-2017
    Beverage Daily
    The number of new breweries opening in the UK has leapt up 55% in the last year, as the craft beer business continues to build its position as an increasingly important part of the drinks industry, according to UHY Hacker Young.
    ==============

    Britain becomes 'brewing powerhouse'

    From:Department for Communities and Local Government and Marcus Jones MPPart of:UK economic growth




    Analysis reveals a new brewery is opening in Britain every other day.

    New figures from the British Beer and Pub Association reveals there are now more than 1,400 breweries in Britain.

    A surge during the past 2 years has seen breweries opening up at rate of 3 every week. This trend is reflected right across the country with all regions sharing the success of the British beer boom.

    Innovative craft breweries, including Magic Rock in West Yorkshire, brew pubs such as One Mile End in East London, and award-winning regional breweries, like the Peak District’s Thornbridge, are all playing their part in the British beer boom.
    And the result has been an economic boost and jobs for young people right across the country. Latest figures show the beer and pubs sector is now responsible for 869,000 jobs in Britain.
    =======================

    Better get to work on getting rid of those jobs!
    Unemployment at near record low and virtually full employment.
    Exports at record high.
    How can this be? Unemployment at record lows, exports at record highs - WITHOUT BREXIT?

    Looks like a lot of people are going to be experiencing #bregret when it happens - and all that changes.







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  23. #123  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    ...and the last time I was in Banbury the coolers in the better stores were at least 25% US beers - and about half of _those_ were West Coast beers.
    Banbury? Best place for them.

    But the UK is catching up, adopting evil, unsightly foreign styles (Belgians, Pilsners, barrel aging, West Coast IPA's, Lambics) to open their own breweries. Horrible isn't it.
    Incorrect. Beer consumption is falling in the UK and the alcohol fuelled venues such as pubs and clubs are still closing.
    There is more of an alcohol culture in the north of England and Scotland, which partly explains why southerners live longer on average.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ion_per_capita

    UK well down the list below the US and most EU countries mentioned.
    Would be interesting to know how many important political decisions have been made under the influence.
    MEP's would be some of the worst.







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  24. #124  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    ...and the last time I was in Banbury the coolers in the better stores were at least 25% US beers - and about half of _those_ were West Coast beers.
    Banbury? Best place for them.

    But the UK is catching up, adopting evil, unsightly foreign styles (Belgians, Pilsners, barrel aging, West Coast IPA's, Lambics) to open their own breweries. Horrible isn't it.
    Incorrect. Beer consumption is falling in the UK and the alcohol fuelled venues such as pubs and clubs are still closing.
    There is more of an alcohol culture in the north of England and Scotland, which partly explains why southerners live longer on average.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ion_per_capita

    UK well down the list below the US and most EU countries mentioned.
    Would be interesting to know how many important political decisions have been made under the influence.
    MEP's would be some of the worst.







    .......and Winston Churchill would have been the worst of the lot, by all accounts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post

    .......and Winston Churchill would have been the worst of the lot, by all accounts.
    OT but there was a fascinating documentary that included all of his early career on the BBC last week. His wife seems to have been very impressive too. She persuaded him, it seems to remain on active service in WW1 when he itched to return to politics at home.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...uggid=b037w3bj
    Last edited by geordief; September 8th, 2017 at 11:51 AM.
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  26. #126  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    .......and Winston Churchill would have been the worst of the lot, by all accounts.
    From Churchill to Thatcher to Blair. What rash decisions have they made while drunk?
    However, I'm not too sure about Churchill. On a walk from Woodstock to Oxford last week I passed right next to his modest grave. He lived to 90 and was supposed to have said he got more out of alcohol than it did from him.
    But here are some facts about alcohol.

    According to the World Health Organization, alcohol kills 2.5 million people each year—that's over 800 times as many people as died in the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, every single year.Alcohol is responsible for approximately 3.8 percent of all global deaths and 4.6 percent of global disability.
    Alcohol costs society more than 1 percent of GNP in wealthier countries. To put that in perspective, wealthy (OECD) countries spend about 6 percent of GNP on education.
    In the United States, alcohol plays a role in approximately 3 million violent crimes each year.
    In the United States, somewhere between 7 percent and 35 percent of all fatal car accidents are estimated to involve the use of alcohol in some way, such as a drunken driver or an inebriated pedestrian.
    Alcohol increases your risk of developing many other serious illnesses and diseases, including heart disease, liver damage, brain damage, high blood pressure (and therefore stroke), and cancers of the breast, colon, esophagus, liver, and stomach. Alcohol also increases your risk of injury or death through such things as drink driving or operating machinery while your judgment is impaired.
    In the UK, alcohol is involved in about 45 percent of all violent crimes and 37 percent of cases of domestic violence. About 60 percent of UK domestic violence victims are women.
    Alcoholics variously estimate the financial cost of their addiction between hundreds of pounds/dollars per month and hundreds of pounds/dollars per week.
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  27. #127  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    But here are some facts about alcohol.

    This is totally off topic for this thread. But ...

    1. Your figures seem to be out of date: WHO | Alcohol

    2. There is a position between abuse and abstinence.
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  28. #128  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    .......and Winston Churchill would have been the worst of the lot, by all accounts.
    From Churchill to Thatcher to Blair. What rash decisions have they made while drunk?
    However, I'm not too sure about Churchill. On a walk from Woodstock to Oxford last week I passed right next to his modest grave. He lived to 90 and was supposed to have said he got more out of alcohol than it did from him.
    Not too sure? He drank like a fish. Hitler Couldn't Defeat Churchill, But Champagne Nearly Did : The Salt : NPR
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  29. #129  
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    Wish you hadn't made me reach for the Daily Hate.

    Vote Leave dossier reveals how eurocrats spend £28m of your money | Daily Mail Online

    Yeah...wine, 5 star hotels, private jets, limos. In Singapore you have to live underground to avoid the lewd behaviour, but I will make no allegations.
    During the recent heat wave they were advised not to consume alcohol at the Brexit negotiations.

    There is a theory that Churchill on his global travels didn't trust the water, so alcohol was a safe bet.
    Last edited by ox; September 9th, 2017 at 06:51 AM.
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  30. #130  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Wish you hadn't made me reach for the Daily Hate.
    In other words, "It is a terrible newspaper, but I still believe their lies"
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    So why is that an incorrect report?
    Before the referendum there was a book written by a newly elected MEP who was astonished by the lavish expenses he could have taken.
    Instead he published his thoughts to try and persuade people to vote leave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    .

    There is a theory that Churchill on his global travels didn't trust the water, so alcohol was a safe bet.
    I have heard that in the past alcoholic drinks were common because they were better quality than the water supply.(they were talking of Britain in the industrial age but I wonder perhaps if it was of world wide phenomenon )

    (Churchill was also afraid of flying but had to fly to America in the War-he must have been frightened of "the drink" )
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Wish you hadn't made me reach for the Daily Hate.

    Vote Leave dossier reveals how eurocrats spend £28m of your money | Daily Mail Online

    Yeah...wine, 5 star hotels, private jets, limos. In Singapore you have to live underground to avoid the lewd behaviour, but I will make no allegations.
    During the recent heat wave they were advised not to consume alcohol at the Brexit negotiations.

    There is a theory that Churchill on his global travels didn't trust the water, so alcohol was a safe bet.
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    So why is that an incorrect report?
    Before the referendum there was a book written by a newly elected MEP who was astonished by the lavish expenses he could have taken.
    Instead he published his thoughts to try and persuade people to vote leave.


    £28 million may appear to be a large sum of money, however, when you consider it as a percentage of the overall EU budget, (approximately €145 billion during 2015), it appears only a tiny fraction and represents only a few pence each for the EU's millions of citizens.

    These facts, however, have been conveniently ignored by the Daily Mail, rather than choosing to inform the public of the actual facts, (£28 million represents only 0.0212% of the EU budget), they have simply chosen to write a story for the purpose of Eurosceptic propaganda.

    There is no sense of balance, or even an attempt at being informative, no explanation of how the rest of the EU budget (99.9788% is spent, with focus placed entirely on the so called perks enjoyed by high ranking EU officials. Equally, it doesn't attempt to compare these perks with those enjoyed by the British Government or Civil Service at the expense of the UK taxpayers, which run into the hundreds of millions and have even included spending taxpayer money on the cleaning of at least one Tory MP's moat!

    Noticeably the article fails to mention the 34% of the EU budget being spent on helping underdeveloped EU regions and disadvantaged sections of society, or 12% spent making European firms more competitive, or perhaps even the 41% spent on producing safe and secure food supplies, innovative farming and efficient and sustainable use of land and forests.

    It also ignores projects such as the new research and innovation programme, Horizon 2020, which has increased the science investment budget to €79.4 billion.

    https://europa.eu/european-union/fil...token=AvThyJAT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Noticeably the article fails to mention the 34% of the EU budget being spent on helping underdeveloped EU regions ...
    Such as Wales and Cornwall. I'm not sure the UK government is going to continue subsidising those areas to the same extent.
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  35. #135  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    £28 million may appear to be a large sum of money, however, when you consider it as a percentage of the overall EU budget, (approximately €145 billion during 2015), it appears only a tiny fraction and represents only a few pence each for the EU's millions of citizens.
    Still want my money back. Why should I help subsidise 5* hotel in Singapore? I mean, what's wrong with the Sea View at Brighton?

    Noticeably the article fails to mention the 34% of the EU budget being spent on helping underdeveloped EU regions
    You mean the siesta economies of the Mediterranean and the eastern European alcohol economies.

    After 1 minute:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5v92kCBy7c

    Oh, and Blair finally today admitting he got it wrong with immigration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Still want my money back. Why should I help subsidise 5* hotel in Singapore? I mean, what's wrong with the Sea View at Brighton?
    It is hard to know how to respond tooth's level of idiocy. It is on a par with "we should leave the EU because I don't like foreign food" so to be expected, I guess.

    You mean the siesta economies of the Mediterranean and the eastern European alcohol economies.
    And Cornwall. And Wales. And other parts of England and Scotland. But I guess if you don't live in those places, you don't care. ("Why would I go to Cornwall")
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  37. #137  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    And Cornwall. And Wales. And other parts of England and Scotland. But I guess if you don't live in those places, you don't care. ("Why would I go to Cornwall")
    So you believe some places should be artificially propped up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post

    It is hard to know how to respond tooth's level of idiocy..
    It is maddening when the electorate makes the wrong choice and thereafter has an apparent moral(politically) high ground . (dissenters are attacked for not embracing the new sunny uplands**)

    We have to wait for events to show that the decision was wrong (in the mean time one can be accused of wishing the country ill)

    ** if the result had gone the other way the Brexiteers would have immediately set about organizing a re run in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    You mean the siesta economies of the Mediterranean and the eastern European alcohol economies.

    Says the person who is not at all xenophobic or prejudiced.

    Next you'll be telling us wogs don't begin at Calais!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    So you believe some places should be artificially propped up.
    I do believe that areas that have specific problems should be given help to address those problems.

    But do I assume from your question that you think all agricultural and fishing subsidies should also end when we leave the EU?

    Don't you think that one of the purposes of society (and thereby taxation) is to look after the whole of society? We don't restrict road use or the NHS to those who have paid enough tax to justify their use. We build roads and supply water and electricity to places where people could not afford (by themselves) to pay for that infrastructure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    And Cornwall. And Wales. And other parts of England and Scotland. But I guess if you don't live in those places, you don't care. ("Why would I go to Cornwall")
    So you believe some places should be artificially propped up.
    Of course. So does any civilised society. London and the SE props up the whole of the rest of the UK. If it refused to do so we would not have a country.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    if the result had gone the other way the Brexiteers would have immediately set about organizing a re run in my opinion.
    That lying hypocrite Farage apparently planned to argue exactly that; on the basis that there wasn't a big enough majority for staying in. (Meanwhile, when some argued exactly that after the result was announced and were told they were being undemocratic.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Noticeably the article fails to mention the 34% of the EU budget being spent on helping underdeveloped EU regions ...
    Such as Wales and Cornwall. I'm not sure the UK government is going to continue subsidising those areas to the same extent.
    Spot on! Where are the government going to get the money to continue funding regions such as Wales and Cornwall, if they are to honour the Brexit campaigns claim that we can spend £350 million a week instead, given that this exceeds by some margin the amount we actually contribute to the EU!

    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    £28 million may appear to be a large sum of money, however, when you consider it as a percentage of the overall EU budget, (approximately €145 billion during 2015), it appears only a tiny fraction and represents only a few pence each for the EU's millions of citizens.
    Still want my money back. Why should I help subsidise 5* hotel in Singapore? I mean, what's wrong with the Sea View at Brighton?
    Ok, tell me where to send the 6 pence that you have probably contibuted towards these costs and I'll personally send it to you

    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    ** if the result had gone the other way the Brexiteers would have immediately set about organizing a re run in my opinion.
    Good point, Farage was saying as much on referendum night, when he thought the Leavers had lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Of course. So does any civilised society. London and the SE props up the whole of the rest of the UK. If it refused to do so we would not have a country.
    Another good point, it's also true that London is given extra support, compared to other regions of Britain, given that capital spending in the capital is 15 times higher than the national average.
    Last edited by Ascended; September 10th, 2017 at 09:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post

    Another good point, it's also true that London is given extra support, compared to other regions of Britain, given that capital spending in the capital is 15 times higher than the national average.
    That's why. The standard Civil Service logic is to invest for a sure return.

    But I've been reading a lot recently about the feedback loop this produces, whereby London and the SE continue to accelerate away from the rest of the UK in economic terms. Very unhealthy for national cohesion of course. Hence Osborne's Northern Powerhouse idea, to invest, not just where there are proven returns, but to increase returns from areas that could maybe yield some if they got more help.

    With Brexshit about to damage the City of London's earning power, now is good time to invest in infrastructure in selected places such as Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds, to try to create the critical mass there for a new engine of growth. I think it's a great idea. (And I'm not in any hurry, personally, to have Crossrail 2 running directly under my house, which it will if built!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    So you believe some places should be artificially propped up.
    I do believe that areas that have specific problems should be given help to address those problems.
    Areas with specific problems like Wales and Cornwall did actually vote Brexit.
    Yet they are now worried they are going to lose EU funding.
    The problem is they want their own degree of independence from England.
    They want the money, but not the intrusion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Areas with specific problems like Wales and Cornwall did actually vote Brexit.
    Yet they are now worried they are going to lose EU funding.
    The problem is they want their own degree of independence from England.
    They want the money, but not the intrusion.
    About as rational as most other Brexit voters then.
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  47. #147  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    So you believe some places should be artificially propped up.
    I do believe that areas that have specific problems should be given help to address those problems.
    Areas with specific problems like Wales and Cornwall did actually vote Brexit.
    Yet they are now worried they are going to lose EU funding.
    The problem is they want their own degree of independence from England.
    They want the money, but not the intrusion.
    What percentage of the total UK citizens in those areas voted for it?
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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  48. #148  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    What percentage of the total UK citizens in those areas voted for it?
    Cornwall voted 56.5% to leave, Wales 52.5% to leave.

    What do you make of this:

    https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily...81479276576056

    Quite a bit of geld.
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  49. #149  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    What percentage of the total UK citizens in those areas voted for it?
    Cornwall voted 56.5% to leave, Wales 52.5% to leave.

    What do you make of this:

    https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily...81479276576056

    Quite a bit of geld.
    Aha I see the Brexshit Berkshire is back, ballocking for Britain.

    The real figure is half the headline number, as you will realise if you have the attention span to read the actual article. And over 43 years it is not much, bearing in mind what the UK has got back in value from the Single Market which, as Brexshitters are too (deliberately?) stupid to realise, costs a lot of money to set up and run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    What percentage of the total UK citizens in those areas voted for it?
    Cornwall voted 56.5% to leave, Wales 52.5% to leave.

    What do you make of this:

    https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily...81479276576056

    Quite a bit of geld.
    That is NOT the question is asked. Try again. What %of the TOTAL UK population, NOT what % of the total votes cast. There is a difference
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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  51. #151  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    That is NOT the question is asked. Try again. What %of the TOTAL UK population, NOT what % of the total votes cast. There is a difference
    I respect only the statistics about people who have actually bothered to vote. If some are apathetic enough not to vote they can stay out of the arguments.


    I'm a little confused as to the signing off of the EU accounts. Some say it has never been done or hasn't been for 17 or 20 years.
    What are they afraid of? This sort of thing, maybe.
    In 2014, the court (of auditors) found that €666m (£524m) from the EU fund that is given to countries to finance projects in underdeveloped areas, was "poor value for money". Poland, for example, built three airports, in Lodz, Rzeszow and Lublin, which have received more than €100m of EU funding, but which have not attracted enough customers to keep them in business.

    In 2012, a mountain lift was constructed in the Sicilian village of Sutera, to improve access to a mountain monastery to attract tourism. The project reportedly received around €2m of EU regional development money. However, due to high operating costs, the lift has never been in use.

    There are UK-based examples too. In 2008, the Canolfan Cywain rural heritage centre opened in Gwynedd, Wales, after it received £900,000 from the EU structural development fund. It ran into financial difficulties in September 2011 and closed a year later.
    Another question. If the UK joins EFTA what might be the terms and conditions?
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    So you still avoid the question I posed. You "respect" is utterl irrelevent to the question I posed.

    Now for the third time.....

    What % of the total populations of Wales and Cornwall voted to exit.

    Just because a vote wasn't cast is NO reason to ignore, UNLESS someone is purposely trying to remain ignorant and oppress anyone they don't want to hear from.....
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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  53. #153  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    So you still avoid the question I posed.
    If you can't accept my answer, what has your own research told you?

    More Bad news for Remoaners!

    Unemployment down to 4.3%.

    379,000 new jobs created in the year to July.

    Just like GCHQ are always listening, the Remoaners are always looking for bad news to blame on Brexit.
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  54. #154  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    So you still avoid the question I posed.
    If you can't accept my answer, what has your own research told you?

    More Bad news for Remoaners!

    Unemployment down to 4.3%.

    379,000 new jobs created in the year to July.

    Just like GCHQ are always listening, the Remoaners are always looking for bad news to blame on Brexit.
    "Brexshit Berkshire, ballocking for Britain" appears too thick to take in that:

    - we are still in the EU, yes really,
    - we won't leave for a further 18 months, and
    - the taking of the investment decisions that may lead to a loss of jobs have barely begun, many employers obviously waiting to see what deal if any if Davis et al can get before they decide, and that the consequences of those decisions will not be felt in most cases until 3-5 years after they are taken.

    It will be appropriate to crow about jobs, if there are still plenty and the economy is doing well, in about seven years from now. What we can expect in the meantime is a slow trickle of investment decisions that might have brought business to the UK to go instead elsewhere. In the event of no deal, that will probably take shape a lot faster, as integrated supply chains involving the UK are rewired to exclude us.

    But, as most Brexshitters seem to have the attention span of a goldfish, asking them to think 7 years ahead is quite beyond them. They will wake up one morning , realise it's all gone to shite - and blame "Johnny Foreigner" for being unreasonable.

    That is the prediction of Gypsy Rose Chemist at least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    So you still avoid the question I posed.
    If you can't accept my answer, what has your own research told you?
    I asked you, now answer....
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    "Brexshit Berkshire, ballocking for Britain" appears too thick to take in that:
    Brexshit is not a word defined in any dictionary.
    Can't we just refer to the 2 sides as the Brexiteers and the Remoaners, both of which are defined in internet dictionaries.
    I'm not sure where you get Berkshire from. I'm sure there are plenty of Remoaners in Reading.

    That is the prediction of Gypsy Rose Chemist at least.
    Prediction is difficult, especially for the future.

    I forgot to mention. The pound is picking on foreign exchanges with some calling it a surge. Maybe not quite yet, but clearly it is undervalued.
    The Remoaners will hate that.

    You won't find many Remoaners in Wrexham.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li5xYXTEB1s

    See why after 50 seconds.
    Last edited by ox; September 15th, 2017 at 10:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    I asked you, now answer....
    And you qualify what you mean by 'What % of the total populations of Wales and Cornwall voted to exit.

    Do you include those not eligible to vote, such as under 18's and immigrants?
    Do you include those that couldn't be bothered to vote because they couldn't care, unable to make it to the voting station, or are just non political?
    There is no way of knowing which side they would have voted.
    And just a minor point. What are you trying to get at?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Brexshit is not a word defined in any dictionary.
    Can't we just refer to the 2 sides as the Brexiteers and the Remoaners, both of which are defined in internet dictionaries.
    I'm not sure where you get Berkshire from. I'm sure there are plenty of Remoaners in Reading.

    No chance. So long as you keep up with Remoaner, Brexshit Berkshire it will have to be.
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    Ox, I had already made that very clear the FIRST time is asked you.

    I will now ask for the FIFTH time.....
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    So you still avoid the question I posed.
    If you can't accept my answer, what has your own research told you?

    More Bad news for Remoaners!

    Unemployment down to 4.3%.

    379,000 new jobs created in the year to July.

    Just like GCHQ are always listening, the Remoaners are always looking for bad news to blame on Brexit.

    The problem is though ox, you are ignoring, refusing to accept any of the negative effects of the referendum decision to leave the European Union, whilst claiming any sign of good news is somehow proof of Brexit success.

    Remainers/Remoaners if you prefer, I'm really not bothered about silly names, are pleased that people are in work, less happy that compared to 2006 the average person is over £5,000, in real terms, a year worse off, but happy people have jobs.

    This said, I just can't see how this could be considered a positive consequence of the Brexit decision. As exchemist has already pointed out we haven't left yet, so you can't attribute this to anything achieved by some kind of new Brexit policy, also our businesses are crying out for workers, virtually every section of our economy is now experiencing recruitment issues.

    What is of some further concern is that wages remain depressed even with recruitment difficulties, salaries just don't appear to be rising very fast, in fact quite often actually still falling in real terms because of below-inflation rises. Equally, there is the issue of money pouring out of the economy, our currency value remains so depressed because other nations aren't buying Sterling, Amsterdam, Madrid, even Berlin are all prospering, but money continues flowing out of London.

    The real signs of success we need to be looking out for are rising incomes, strong sustained economic growth and indications of greater international confidence in our economy by increased foreign investment & our currency value returning to pre-referendum levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Unemployment down to 4.3%.
    Food news! All them foreigners aren't stealing our jobs after all. So all that immigration crap was just more brexit lies. But you believe them all, anyway. Even though your own data disproves them. (This is obviously not because you are a racist bigot, there must be some other reason.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    The problem is though ox, you are ignoring, refusing to accept any of the negative effects of the referendum decision to leave the European Union, whilst claiming any sign of good news is somehow proof of Brexit success.
    If I'm to believe you, then Brexit will be the worst thing ever to happen to the nation which defied Napoleon and Hitler.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7NlFWh7Sz8

    Please be a bit more optimistic.
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  63. #163  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    The problem is though ox, you are ignoring, refusing to accept any of the negative effects of the referendum decision to leave the European Union, whilst claiming any sign of good news is somehow proof of Brexit success.
    If I'm to believe you, then Brexit will be the worst thing ever to happen to the nation which defied Napoleon and Hitler.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7NlFWh7Sz8

    Please be a bit more optimistic.
    Several events have been worse for this country. I've already mentioned the loss of the French possessions, when England lost the Hundred Years War. The Black Death was far, far worse. The English Civil War was deeply traumatic (even though we eventually got a much improved constitution out of it, at the Restoration). We don't know yet how bad Brexshit will be, but it would not as bad as these.

    As for the plea for optimism, the people who seem to be optimistic are the ones who do not understand the issues. The sort of people who have had enough of experts.
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  64. #164  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    The problem is though ox, you are ignoring, refusing to accept any of the negative effects of the referendum decision to leave the European Union, whilst claiming any sign of good news is somehow proof of Brexit success.
    If I'm to believe you, then Brexit will be the worst thing ever to happen to the nation which defied Napoleon and Hitler.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7NlFWh7Sz8


    Please be a bit more optimistic.
    May I be as optimistic as Mark Steel please, he has some great reasons in favour of Brexit!

    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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    Sad to see Boris repeating the same lies that have already been thoroughly debunked.

    Brexidiots are defending it on the basis that he is just trying to be optimistic. Really.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  66. #166  
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    And this morning, that preposterous dinosaur* Jacob Rees-Mogg is in the Torygraph supporting Bozo, saying what we need is to get back to a romantic vision of Brexshit and not let the details of how difficult it is drag us down.

    Yes, a romantic vision is the important thing: just what the Irish government, the lorry drivers backed up on the M20, the NHS, and the vegetable growers with crops rotting in the fields will need, in 18 months time.

    At all costs, do not listen to the experts. We've had enough of them, you see.

    It would be a lot more impressive if some of these Brexshitters were able to say how they propose it is going to work, in detail, because that is what we need to keep the ports open, sort out the Irish border etc. These clowns have no idea, and with every passing day it becomes more obvious how difficult - and expensive - it is going to be. That's what frightens them - hence this new smokescreen of ballocks.

    I think Bozo is finished as a politician now. He seems to have put on about 3 stone over the summer and it is clear from those piggy little eyes he has nowadays that he has sold his soul to the devil. He never believed in Brexshit: his whole position is a pose for career advancement. Unfortunately for him, the country is being split in half, with a recrudescence of the far left under Corbyn. If the Tories were to choose a facetious Old Etonian to lead them at this point, they would invite a Corbyn victory. They know that, I think. So Bozo has had it: this is his last gasp. Rees - Mogg (yet another OE) is just a joke: clever, but absurdly antediluvian.


    *Prepostaurus Moggii?
    Last edited by exchemist; September 18th, 2017 at 08:50 AM.
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  67. #167  
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    +1

    Sadly, I suspect people such as the BBC have Re-Smog(*) and Boorish on because they find them amusing, not thinking about the harm they do.

    (*) return to Victorian values
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  68. #168  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    And this morning, that preposterous dinosaur* Jacob Rees-Mogg is in the Torygraph supporting Bozo, saying what we need is to get back to a romantic vision of Brexshit and not let the details of how difficult it is drag us down.
    Of course. There is no question that Brexit will have some bad results; even a few good ones. White nationalists (and other Brexit supporters) will emphasize the good ones and claim that it was the best idea ever, while ignoring the bad effects (or blaming the bad effects on foreigners, Brexit opposition or the media.) They will, by necessity, have a romantic view of it - because to do otherwise would be to admit to themselves that they made a mistake.
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  69. #169  
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    On the question of Brexshit being a "mistake", I was interested to see Bruce Anderson, writing in today's FT, saying what I have always thought about Bozo's support for Brexshit.

    He says, as I have long suspected, that Bozo is really a remainer, who thought he could safely masquerade as a Brexshitter to earn kudos from the Brexshit wing of the Tory party, and then present himself as the unifying leader, after the Brexshitters lost the vote. But the engineer is hoist with his own petard, now that the vote has not gone according to his plan. Hence the shiftiness in his expression these days and the incredible amount of weight he has put on (booze? comfort eating?). His cack-handed article in Friday's Torygraph looks like a desperate ploy to curry favour with the Brexshit right in advance of the party conference next week. But what also shows is the cabinet is divided and leaderless, with only 18 months to go before we leave.

    And today we have the chief civil servant in charge of the negotiations falling out with David Davis (the 3rd or 4th senior person to do so since Davis was given the job).

    The overall impression is that the cabinet has been taking lessons in coherent government from Trump's White House.
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  70. #170  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    He says, as I have long suspected, that Bozo is really a remainer, who thought he could safely masquerade as a Brexshitter to earn kudos from the Brexshit wing of the Tory party, and then present himself as the unifying leader, after the Brexshitters lost the vote. But the engineer is hoist with his own petard, now that the vote has not gone according to his plan.
    The fact the disappeared from the public eye for days (weeks?) immediately after the referendum pretty much confirms this, I think. No doubt he had locked himself in a dark room and was just repeating "f*k .... f*k ... f*k .... f*k ..."

    Ironic that the media now credit him with turning the tide in favour of Brexit (which I think is giving him more credit than he is due).
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  71. #171  
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    The arch Remoaner, Vince Cable, the man who wants another referendum, has delusions to become the next PM, claims there are only 2 million public sector workers when in fact there are over 5 million, wants to legalise harmful drugs etc...etc... gets his sums wrong again yesterday on Radio 4 by claiming that Britain pays only £30 million a week to the EU.

    So what is the true figure? Arguably not £350 million (the worst case scenario) but nearer £200 million. It depends on how you calculate it, but still a lot of geld.

    Lib Dems: Channel 4 News host shames Lib Dem after he backs Vince Cable to be next PM | UK | News | Express.co.uk
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  72. #172  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    The arch Remoaner, Vince Cable, the man who wants another referendum, has delusions to become the next PM, claims there are only 2 million public sector workers when in fact there are over 5 million, wants to legalise harmful drugs etc...etc... gets his sums wrong again yesterday on Radio 4 by claiming that Britain pays only £30 million a week to the EU.

    So what is the true figure? Arguably not £350 million (the worst case scenario) but nearer £200 million. It depends on how you calculate it, but still a lot of geld.

    Lib Dems: Channel 4 News host shames Lib Dem after he backs Vince Cable to be next PM | UK | News | Express.co.uk
    The best source I could quickly find on the web is this: https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/

    So the £350m/week is just lies. It is £250m/week. Of this it seems we get back about £77m/week in grants to agriculture and poor regions of the UK. So it looks to me as if the net contribution - which goes towards running the system of harmonised rules and standards that we benefit from - is about £173m/week.

    If one argues that we do not "control" where the EU grants go, that is true. But the government has already promised the farmers they won't lose out - and I suspect Cornwall and S Wales are not going to be deprived of the sort of help they have grown used to. So in effect it is only the £173m/week the government will have to play with - half what Bozo is falsely claiming. And of that, a fair amount will be eaten up in new rules and standards bureaucracies and expansion of the civil service, to take over the duties of those functions we have been getting from the EU in exchange for our contribution.

    To give some perspective, UK government spending is about 15bn/week - 800bn/yr. The net contribution to the EU is thus of the order of 1% of this. Spending on the NHS and on pensions, are each about 20%. https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk
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