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Thread: Russia out of UN ...

  1. #1 Russia out of UN ... 
    Forum Bachelors Degree CEngelbrecht's Avatar
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    ... untill Putin is removed.


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  3. #2  
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    I think I'd quote Lyndon B Johnson at this point.




    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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  4. #3  
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    Besides it's exactly what Putin wants. He can't fix Russia's economy, so if he can get his people embroiled in some kind of conflict he can at least keep them content. Then he gets to serve out life as dictator. Basically he wants to convert Russia into North Korea. Isolated. Broke. Nobody to trade with, but the leaders' authority goes unquestioned.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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    Forum Ph.D. Dave Wilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEngelbrecht View Post
    ... untill Putin is removed.
    Not a chance dude.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Ph.D. Dave Wilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Besides it's exactly what Putin wants. He can't fix Russia's economy, so if he can get his people embroiled in some kind of conflict he can at least keep them content. Then he gets to serve out life as dictator. Basically he wants to convert Russia into North Korea. Isolated. Broke. Nobody to trade with, but the leaders' authority goes unquestioned.
    Kojax, It sounds very much like icewendigo has hacked your forum account. I hope that this is not the case
    Last edited by Dave Wilson; March 20th, 2014 at 10:45 AM. Reason: Forgot the smiley
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    "Kojax, It sounds very much like icewendigo has hacked your forum account. I hope that this is not the case"

    We need to bomb insurgents opposed to our benevolent occupation with freedom bombs from strategic Zeppelins






    This impression aside, I am critical of US imperialistic wars, war crimes and so on, but I do not call for the US to be booted out of the UN,
    the US can wantonly bomb and invade regardless of the UN (Stop, or we'll say stop again), but at least we get the occasional dog and pony show:

    Im having problems with images but just picture Collin Powell with his vial of powder* at the UN (*not the US military strain of anthrax used on selected members of the US media and Congress but a prop)
    Last edited by icewendigo; March 19th, 2014 at 06:38 PM.
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    So far there has been very little mention of the fact 40% of US supplies to the Afghanistan war still get there through Russia's territory.
    Russia can't thwart Afghan war drawdown, U.S. commander says | Reuters
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    So far there has been very little mention of the fact 40% of US supplies to the Afghanistan war still get there through Russia's territory.
    Russia can't thwart Afghan war drawdown, U.S. commander says | Reuters

    Yeah. I noticed that. And brought it up on the zeppelin thread. We might want to find an alternative shipping route before we get into a full showdown with Russia.

    Also I'm sure it's part of why Putin is so confident the USA won't be making a stand against him militarily. There's no practical way to extract the troops from Afghanistan quickly enough to redeploy them in Crimea.
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  10. #9  
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    I doubt if Putin is really worried about the troops in Afghanistan.

    People like Senator McCain have managed to drag the world back into the 1980s.
    You are now looking at the risk of nuclear war again.
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    Just assassinate him -.-
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Also I'm sure it's part of why Putin is so confident the USA won't be making a stand against him militarily. There's no practical way to extract the troops from Afghanistan quickly enough to redeploy them in Crimea.
    Even at peak deployment numbers to Afghanistan, it only was a few % of total active duty strength for the US military--a none issue in terms of Us military involvement in another crisis area if it so chooses.
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    The trouble isn't so much the troops as the supply line. Just how does the U.S. get troops to the Ukraine in the face of Russian opposition? Repudiate the Montreux convention and send forces through the Turkish straights? The only other option is by air, which is highly unlikely to work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhanegan View Post
    The trouble isn't so much the troops as the supply line. Just how does the U.S. get troops to the Ukraine in the face of Russian opposition? Repudiate the Montreux convention and send forces through the Turkish straights? The only other option is by air, which is highly unlikely to work.
    Well, they could go through Poland just like Adolf Hitler's armies did.
    Last edited by dan hunter; April 14th, 2014 at 11:45 PM.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by danhanegan View Post
    The trouble isn't so much the troops as the supply line. Just how does the U.S. get troops to the Ukraine in the face of Russian opposition? Repudiate the Montreux convention and send forces through the Turkish straights? The only other option is by air, which is highly unlikely to work.
    Well, they could go through Poland just like Adolf Hitler's armies did.
    It's part of NATO, so that part would be easy.
    For NATO there's probably strong reason not to involve Poland though because of Polands historical claims and desire to reclaim lands lost to them to USSR/Ukraine during WWII.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    If anyone assassinates Putin there will only be another Russian leader put in his place so nothing will change. It is better to see what Putin sees and why he is doing what he is doing. The Ukraine has defaulted on its payments to Russia for the oil and gas that it gets from there. Since the Ukraine won't print more money to pay its debts Putin sees that the only way to ever break even is to take control of the Ukraine so he can make money for Russia.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhanegan View Post
    The trouble isn't so much the troops as the supply line. Just how does the U.S. get troops to the Ukraine in the face of Russian opposition? Repudiate the Montreux convention and send forces through the Turkish straights? The only other option is by air, which is highly unlikely to work.
    parachuting in isn't an option?
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; April 25th, 2014 at 08:09 AM.
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  18. #17  
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    For NATO there's probably strong reason not to involve Poland though
    guess you're proven wrong now.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    If anyone assassinates Putin there will only be another Russian leader put in his place so nothing will change. It is better to see what Putin sees and why he is doing what he is doing. The Ukraine has defaulted on its payments to Russia for the oil and gas that it gets from there. Since the Ukraine won't print more money to pay its debts Putin sees that the only way to ever break even is to take control of the Ukraine so he can make money for Russia.

    I wouldn't say "nothing will change". Quite a lot would change if Putin got assassinated. Whatever limits presently exist on the power of the president under Putin would probably be removed. Putin's replacement would be hailed as a hero for risking that he might get assassinated next, and Russia would become a great deal more aggressive.

    As far as Ukraine not paying its gas debt, everyone knows that whole business is a sham. Russia can charge any price it wants for that natural gas because Ukraine is still prisoner to the old Soviet infrastructure that was set up, and which relied on natural gas extensively. Russia deliberately set a price they knew Ukraine couldn't pay, knowing full well they would never get it, but also knowing their gas business could remain profitable at a small fraction of that price.

    Quote Originally Posted by danhanegan View Post
    The trouble isn't so much the troops as the supply line. Just how does the U.S. get troops to the Ukraine in the face of Russian opposition? Repudiate the Montreux convention and send forces through the Turkish straights? The only other option is by air, which is highly unlikely to work.
    I would think the US would just go ahead and ship its troops in via the Black Sea. What's Russia going to do about it? Have a shooting war at sea against America's technologically superior navy?


    All of Russia's boats would get sunk, and then they wouldn't need the sea port in Crimea anymore.

    edit: reading more closely, it seems the Turkish Straights are an issue. However..... last time I checked, Turkey is opposed to what Russia is doing. The Crimean Tatars are Muslims, apparently, and have appealed to them for intervention.
    Last edited by kojax; April 26th, 2014 at 09:15 PM.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    I would think the US would just go ahead and ship its troops in via the Black Sea.
    I'm not sure why this question keeps coming up. It's easy to get to the Ukraine, you drive through Poland which is now NATO. Logistically it would be one of the easiest deployments in decades.

    But I expect no real efforts anything like that. The risk versus awards for protecting the Ukraine are no better than they were for Eisenhower when Soviets invaded Hungary, or for Johnson when the Soviets invaded Czechoslovakia.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post

    But I expect no real efforts anything like that. The risk versus awards for protecting the Ukraine are no better than they were for Eisenhower when Soviets invaded Hungary, or for Johnson when the Soviets invaded Czechoslovakia.
    There's a bit more reward than that. But politically even if Russia were made to back down, there's no certainty that the USA wouldn't get made out to be the villain for interfering.

    As bad as Ukraine's own economy is, they play an important role in Europe's economy by providing cheap grain for livestock (all the cheaper due to Ukraine's low wages.)

    And if the West gets established in Ukraine, it would wreak havoc on Russia's national security. The cultural ties between the countries are strong, so if you have control of Ukraine you have easy access to infiltrate Russia on many levels. I'm thinking a Ukrainian secret agent trying to blend in in Russia would be rather like an Australian secret agent trying to blend in in the USA. Not a terribly difficult transition.
    Last edited by kojax; April 27th, 2014 at 02:13 AM.
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