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Thread: Obama's legacy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    In my opinion, Obama was the worst, and best president ever, however, he was given a basket to catch water.
    Excuses, excuses.
    The American people always expect some president to bail them out from the mess they themselves have created. O
    I have no such expectations. Obama is the guy who keeps promising to "fundamentally transform" the US, stop the oceans from rising, and all that gibberish that people bought into. All I expect from a president is to enforce federal laws (which he doesn't do) and provide some leadership for issues that require federal resolution, like energy policy (his is nonexistent) and foreign affairs (his wars have caused more damage than good).
    bama sold his soul in terms of his identity. White people expected him to spill his guts repairing the damage done by the political history of the founding fathers. Black people expected him to repair the perceived damage done to them by slavery. The thing is, Obama is just a man like any other man, there is only so much he can do, it is really incumbent on the people of America to start thinking critically, about the America they want to live in. There are lots of possibilities to throw blame around, it is also ludicrous to think Obama can carry the whole gambit.

    All in all I think his legacy will go down in history as the black president who did all he could, burdened with the rise of dreaded socialism. Does anyone realize that socialism has its roots in Africa?
    What do you mean he is burdened by socialism? He is doing his level best to promote socialistic ideas, insofar as he is able to.
    With all due respect Harold, your expectations are what you want things to be, it does not have to follow reality. You want Obama to do this or that, but the opposing force will only allow that. I am very sorry that the expectations from a black president is way out of the order of reality. It would be nice if America did not have a so called race problem, and the founding fathers included all races in the political process. I agree with you that as a citizen you can only expect what you voted for, the expectancy from the presidency should be color blind, sadly that is not the reality. I have never heard, or read in all my life the negative things said about Obama as the president of the great country called The United States America, in the context of color.

    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism. The whole world has been running away from it, even changing the name to communism thus using propaganda to frighten the people into believing the system only brought devastation to any economy. Now they are having to look at the sense in it, and because there is no place left to go, they have to return to it to find refuge.

    I asked if some of you know that socialism finds its roots in Africa, not even you responded to that, and you usually notice these things. Am I right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    President Obama has a bad habit of overhyping himself. Had he given us realistic expectations (for those of us not smart enough to realize his promises were overblown in the first place) he would be viewed in a much more positive light. He made himself sound like the harbinger of a new era and there was no possible way (with an absurdly antagonistic congress, incompetent media, and a world reputation tainted by the Bush administration) that he was ever going to succeed.

    He was too polarized. He was painted as a socialist by Republicans and too conservative for Democrats. He exemplifies the fact that you cannot be a moderate in our nation anymore.
    I guess everyone is running away when things go bad. "Look, he did it, I have nothing to do with that what he did" that's how it is. If you do something and it works you are a good guy, if you do something and it did not work you have to know you are the bad guy, it is a simply as that. I am not American but I am burdened with everything America does be the president white, or black.
    Obama might be for people, but there is no way he can leave the massive lobby of the greedy cooperation's. Bush was not in a much better citation, although I think he was not as educated as Obama.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    That's cause you're a partisan hack who has no real thoughts of your own.
    And with you, of course, almost every post contains original thoughts of the, deepest, most profound variety!
    at least they'e not talking posts verbatim from the right wing players.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    President Obama has a bad habit of overhyping himself. Had he given us realistic expectations (for those of us not smart enough to realize his promises were overblown in the first place) he would be viewed in a much more positive light. He made himself sound like the harbinger of a new era and there was no possible way (with an absurdly antagonistic congress, incompetent media, and a world reputation tainted by the Bush administration) that he was ever going to succeed.

    He was too polarized. He was painted as a socialist by Republicans and too conservative for Democrats. He exemplifies the fact that you cannot be a moderate in our nation anymore.
    I would argue he has done very well with what he was handed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I asked if some of you know that socialism finds its roots in Africa, not even you responded to that, and you usually notice these things. Am I right?
    I wasn't aware of it, if it's true. What is the evidence for it? Does it matter where it finds its roots? It's still a bad idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    All in all I think his legacy will go down in history as the black president who did all he could, burdened with the rise of dreaded socialism. Does anyone realize that socialism has its roots in Africa?
    Socialism is not "on the rise." Social programs enacted because the wealthy has sucked up all the wealth and made the income gap the largest it's ever been is not the fault of the unsuccessful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Does anyone realize that socialism has its roots in Africa?
    Link? if that's true it's probably because humanity started in Africa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I asked if some of you know that socialism finds its roots in Africa, not even you responded to that, and you usually notice these things. Am I right?
    I wasn't aware of it, if it's true. What is the evidence for it? Does it matter where it finds its roots? It's still a bad idea.
    If it does not matter where it started, and its a bad idea, please explain the bad and good parts if you can be unbiased.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    All in all I think his legacy will go down in history as the black president who did all he could, burdened with the rise of dreaded socialism. Does anyone realize that socialism has its roots in Africa?
    Socialism is not "on the rise." Social programs enacted because the wealthy has sucked up all the wealth and made the income gap the largest it's ever been is not the fault of the unsuccessful.
    Grmpy, I like the way you look at things, at least I get the impression that you are more objective than not. Give me a subjective synopsis of how you from all you have read and heard about socialism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    I have no such expectations. Obama is the guy who keeps promising to "fundamentally transform" the US, stop the oceans from rising, and all that gibberish that people bought into. All I expect from a president is to enforce federal laws (which he doesn't do) and provide some leadership for issues that require federal resolution, like energy policy (his is nonexistent) and foreign affairs (his wars have caused more damage than good).
    Did Obama promised to "fundamentally transform" the US? (like shredding the constitution and getting rid of habeus corpus? you have lost your damn mind!) Did he ever say he was going to keep the oceans from rising or that he's trying to help our country go to cleaner energy? He does enforce federal laws, and by "providing leadership" does that mean flying over New Orleans with a frown on his face, or perhaps giving the order to let bin laden get away at tora bora...? maybe you mean continue to read "my pet goat while the nation was under attack) What were W's energy policies? oh that's right "drill baby drill," which resulted in the BP ocean disaster. Obama has started no wars, that was your boy that started them! so, if you're complaint is that Obama didn't start any wars of his own then that might be the one true thing you've written in your whole paragraph.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    What do you mean he is burdened by socialism? He is doing his level best to promote socialistic ideas, insofar as he is able to.
    It is quite clear that you and the rest of your ilk either have no idea what socialism is or you are being completely dishonest to achieve your ends. either way it's disgusting, and you should be ashamed of yourself, however everyone knows republican pride will not let that happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I asked if some of you know that socialism finds its roots in Africa, not even you responded to that, and you usually notice these things. Am I right?
    I wasn't aware of it, if it's true. What is the evidence for it? Does it matter where it finds its roots? It's still a bad idea.
    Collapse of the Egyptian Civilization

    There are lots more out there, you can check them out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    President Obama has a bad habit of overhyping himself. Had he given us realistic expectations (for those of us not smart enough to realize his promises were overblown in the first place) he would be viewed in a much more positive light. He made himself sound like the harbinger of a new era and there was no possible way (with an absurdly antagonistic congress, incompetent media, and a world reputation tainted by the Bush administration) that he was ever going to succeed.

    He was too polarized. He was painted as a socialist by Republicans and too conservative for Democrats. He exemplifies the fact that you cannot be a moderate in our nation anymore.
    I guess everyone is running away when things go bad. "Look, he did it, I have nothing to do with that what he did" that's how it is.
    There's a difference between "running away" and not supporting a specific policy or set of policies. I don't support the NSA use, (started under bush but kept in place) I don't support that Guantanamo is still open, I don't support his law to prosecute whistle blowers, I don't support the fact that Obama refused to prosecute Bush and Cheney for war crimes. but by no means am I running away from the guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    If you do something and it works you are a good guy, if you do something and it did not work you have to know you are the bad guy, it is a simply as that.
    No one person will be perfect but the idea is to have more supports than nonsupports. The W score card reads in the negative a ridiculous amount of times. as a matter of fact, if I was grading his administration there would be so much red ink you probably wouldn't be able to see what he had written because of all the corrections.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Obama might be for people, but there is no way he can leave the massive lobby of the greedy cooperation's. Bush was not in a much better citation, although I think he was not as educated as Obama.
    The massive lobby of greedy corporations was started by Reagan, kept in place by Bush Senior, encouraged by Clinton, expanded a gazillion fold by Bush Jr.. Obama isn't going to take The government back from wall Street after 34 years of roots. He can try and I encourage that but that's bigger than one man and will take longer than two terms, so the next prez will need to be on board with that too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    President Obama has a bad habit of overhyping himself. Had he given us realistic expectations (for those of us not smart enough to realize his promises were overblown in the first place) he would be viewed in a much more positive light. He made himself sound like the harbinger of a new era and there was no possible way (with an absurdly antagonistic congress, incompetent media, and a world reputation tainted by the Bush administration) that he was ever going to succeed.

    He was too polarized. He was painted as a socialist by Republicans and too conservative for Democrats. He exemplifies the fact that you cannot be a moderate in our nation anymore.
    I guess everyone is running away when things go bad. "Look, he did it, I have nothing to do with that what he did" that's how it is.
    There's a difference between "running away" and not supporting a specific policy or set of policies. I don't support the NSA use, (started under bush but kept in place) I don't support that Guantanamo is still open, I don't support his law to prosecute whistle blowers, I don't support the fact that Obama refused to prosecute Bush and Cheney for war crimes. but by no means am I running away from the guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    If you do something and it works you are a good guy, if you do something and it did not work you have to know you are the bad guy, it is a simply as that.
    No one person will be perfect but the idea is to have more supports than nonsupports. The W score card reads in the negative a ridiculous amount of times. as a matter of fact, if I was grading his administration there would be so much red ink you probably wouldn't be able to see what he had written because of all the corrections.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Obama might be for people, but there is no way he can leave the massive lobby of the greedy cooperation's. Bush was not in a much better citation, although I think he was not as educated as Obama.
    The massive lobby of greedy corporations was started by Reagan, kept in place by Bush Senior, encouraged by Clinton, expanded a gazillion fold by Bush Jr.. Obama isn't going to take The government back from wall Street after 34 years of roots. He can try and I encourage that but that's bigger than one man and will take longer than two terms, so the next prez will need to be on board with that too.
    There's a difference between "running away" and not supporting a specific policy or set of policies. I don't support the NSA use, (started under bush but kept in place) I don't support that Guantanamo is still open, I don't support his law to prosecute whistle blowers, I don't support the fact that Obama refused to prosecute Bush and Cheney for war crimes. but by no means am I running away from the guy.
    I am sorry I painted you with that broad brush, I really do not think you are a runner, that is why I read most of your posts.
    yes, I also agree with most of what you said in your post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    All in all I think his legacy will go down in history as the black president who did all he could, burdened with the rise of dreaded socialism. Does anyone realize that socialism has its roots in Africa?
    Socialism is not "on the rise." Social programs enacted because the wealthy has sucked up all the wealth and made the income gap the largest it's ever been is not the fault of the unsuccessful.
    Grmpy, I like the way you look at things, at least I get the impression that you are more objective than not. Give me a subjective synopsis of how you from all you have read and heard about socialism.
    Socialism is where the state runs everything and there is no competition or private ownership. That is clearly not the situation here in America (not even close). even where we have "socialism" there is still competition. For example, schools. you can go to public school for free on the states dime, or if you want, you have the option of spending your own money and buying the services of a private school. I understand this is the situation in Europe with "socialized medicine." If the rich don't want to have to go to those commoner's doctors they can buy their own insurance and forgo single payer.

    People hooting and hollering about about "socialized medicine" are pissing in the wind because medicine was a private monopoly prior to Obama care, which is much worse than "Socialized medicine." "Obamacare" (Affordable Care Act) takes away the monopoly and that's why the right is super pissed about it. THe right hates that their gravy train is over! (Peoples' health is not a profit business. Nor should the news be, but that's a different thread.) They own the media and so they take to the airwaves complain about how no medical coverage is complete medical coverage, war is peace, and freedom is slavery and then people like Harold completely lap it up. his (and people like him) inability to think critically is what the right is banking on and they use him and the people like him to vote against their best interests to further their own interests. So they sell Harold some "pride" and he runs around like he's part of them and they're buddies. Like the little kid who is "helping" daddy fix the car. It'd be cute if it wasn't so destructive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    All in all I think his legacy will go down in history as the black president who did all he could, burdened with the rise of dreaded socialism. Does anyone realize that socialism has its roots in Africa?
    Socialism is not "on the rise." Social programs enacted because the wealthy has sucked up all the wealth and made the income gap the largest it's ever been is not the fault of the unsuccessful.
    Grmpy, I like the way you look at things, at least I get the impression that you are more objective than not. Give me a subjective synopsis of how you from all you have read and heard about socialism.
    Socialism is where the state runs everything and there is no competition or private ownership. That is clearly not the situation here in America (not even close). even where we have "socialism" there is still competition. For example, schools. you can go to public school for free on the states dime, or if you want, you have the option of spending your own money and buying the services of a private school. I understand this is the situation in Europe with "socialized medicine." If the rich don't want to have to go to those commoner's doctors they can buy their own insurance and forgo single payer.

    People hooting and hollering about about "socialized medicine" are pissing in the wind because medicine was a private monopoly prior to Obama care, which is much worse than "Socialized medicine." "Obamacare" (Affordable Care Act) takes away the monopoly and that's why the right is super pissed about it. THe right hates that their gravy train is over! (Peoples' health is not a profit business. Nor should the news be, but that's a different thread.) They own the media and so they take to the airwaves complain about how no medical coverage is complete medical coverage, war is peace, and freedom is slavery and then people like Harold completely lap it up. his (and people like him) inability to think critically is what the right is banking on and they use him and the people like him to vote against their best interests to further their own interests. So they sell Harold some "pride" and he runs around like he's part of them and they're buddies. Like the little kid who is "helping" daddy fix the car. It'd be cute if it wasn't so destructive.
    Yes, I can understand it the way you see it, I am not sure I can do any better so I will try to use less words. Socialism is the system that keeps all the other systems in check, reason being, it has people as the center point of gravity. It is OK to have a chosen few, but they must not over power the masses. There is nothing wrong with any system we want to use, but we must always have people in mind. The moment we divert from that position we get something as what we now have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Did Obama promised to "fundamentally transform" the US? (like shredding the constitution and getting rid of habeus corpus? you have lost your damn mind!)
    Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about him promising to shred the constitution or get rid of habeus corpus. Did he or did he not say he wanted to fundamentally transform the US?
    Did he ever say he was going to keep the oceans from rising or that he's trying to help our country go to cleaner energy?
    He said, megalomaniacally, "This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow, and our planet began to heal." So the point is, people are not just out of the blue inventing unrealistic expectations for him. it's him, making ridiculous promises and idiotic voters falling for it.
    He does enforce federal laws,
    Sure, if he likes them. Or he feels free to modify them at will, like extending Obamacare without any legislative justifications.
    and by "providing leadership" does that mean flying over New Orleans with a frown on his face, or perhaps giving the order to let bin laden get away at tora bora...? maybe you mean continue to read "my pet goat while the nation was under attack) What were W's energy policies? oh that's right "drill baby drill," which resulted in the BP ocean disaster. Obama has started no wars, that was your boy that started them!
    Well, he bombed the shit out of Kadaffi, turning Libya into a haven for Al Qaeda. I still remember Hillary cackling maniacally, "We came, we saw, he died."
    so, if you're complaint is that Obama didn't start any wars of his own then that might be the one true thing you've written in your whole paragraph.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    What do you mean he is burdened by socialism? He is doing his level best to promote socialistic ideas, insofar as he is able to.
    It is quite clear that you and the rest of your ilk either have no idea what socialism is or you are being completely dishonest to achieve your ends. either way it's disgusting, and you should be ashamed of yourself, however everyone knows republican pride will not let that happen.
    It's funny how the people who like socialism also like Obama's policies, but then they swear his policies are nothing like socialism. What i said was that he is not opposing socialism, and he isn't. He is implementing as much of it as he can in the current political environment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Did Obama promised to "fundamentally transform" the US? (like shredding the constitution and getting rid of habeus corpus? you have lost your damn mind!)
    Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about him promising to shred the constitution or get rid of habeus corpus.
    it does not surprise me that you are this thick. Shredding the Constitution and getting rid of Habeus Corpus is what W did. You seem to be ok with that. no temper-tantrums over that, but Obama actually trying to help the citizen's of the US draws your ire. Excellent priorities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Did he or did he not say he wanted to fundamentally transform the US?
    That was your claim, support it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    He said, megalomaniacally, "This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow, and our planet began to heal." So the point is, people are not just out of the blue inventing unrealistic expectations for him. it's him, making ridiculous promises and idiotic voters falling for it.
    How is it that you are extremely proficient in English (as shown by your excellent support of nina parsins questions in the education thread) but apparently can't spot a metaphor to save your life when it's uttered by obama? I think it's probably dishonest on your part and you know damn well it was a metaphor but choose to misinterpret it on purpose for the sake of your "team"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf
    He does enforce federal laws
    Sure, if he likes them. Or he feels free to modify them at will, like extending Obamacare without any legislative justifications.
    There is absolutely no way you can legitimately complain about picking and choosing the laws the president follows in light of the extreme criminal activity of your favorite president. I could just imagine your outrage if the obama administration had a hand in leaking the identity of CIA operative and then commuted the prison sentence of the leaker. but because it was Cheney and Libby they get a pass right? So get out my face with that nonsense accusation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    Well, he bombed the shit out of Kadaffi, turning Libya into a haven for Al Qaeda. I still remember Hillary cackling maniacally, "We came, we saw, he died."
    SO, now you're a Kadaffi supporter? and that wasn't done out of Obama's need to start war but at the request of the oppressed people of Libya for help and Obama's strike had the blessing of the UN. None of which W had under his little adventure. They didn't ask W for help and the UN Forbid his invasion. see the difference yet? probably not be we all know that's by choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    It's funny how the people who like socialism also like Obama's policies, but then they swear his policies are nothing like socialism.
    His policies are nothing like socialism. If you've been paying attention you would know that. and there is no correlation to your statement and Obama's policies.
    It's funny how people who like Ice hockey claim soccer/football is nothing like Ice hockey. BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THE SAME! It's funny how people who claim they are not racist vote along the same party lines as the KKK. does one = the other? no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    What i said was that he is not opposing socialism, and he isn't.
    What the hell does that mean? Why would he need to? it's not an issue. It's only an issue because the right learned a new word and they have armed their hangers-on with it and they shout it every chance they get even though it doesn't apply. He is not opposing killing puppies either, does he really need to come out against all the shit that's common sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    He is implementing as much of it as he can in the current political environment.
    No he's not. if that were true he would be squashing competition and he is not doing that there is still private markets and private sales. He is bringing competition back because as of late there is no competition based on the lopsided business practices that have run rampant through the US. Monopolies and crushing competition out of existence is not conducive to the health of the country. Taking peoples' money and then denying service is not conducive to the health of the country. Letting the rich lobby laws that screw over the unwealthy is not conducive to the health of the country. All Obama is doing is rolling back the corrosive hyper capitalism that has ruined this country over the last 14 years. Balance does not mean you support one system over another. it means exactly that, Balance!
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    With all due respect Harold, your expectations are what you want things to be, it does not have to follow reality. You want Obama to do this or that, but the opposing force will only allow that. I am very sorry that the expectations from a black president is way out of the order of reality. It would be nice if America did not have a so called race problem, and the founding fathers included all races in the political process. I agree with you that as a citizen you can only expect what you voted for, the expectancy from the presidency should be color blind, sadly that is not the reality. I have never heard, or read in all my life the negative things said about Obama as the president of the great country called The United States America, in the context of color.
    It has nothing to do with race. No other president, regardless of their SKIN COLOR has been judged any better or worse than Obama, based on that.

    Sorry.

    I think he is a bad President. I didn't vote for him. I wouldn't vote for him. I could care less if he was purple......I do not like him, nor trust him, nor seen him do much of anything great. BUT HE DOES PREEN VERY WELL!

    I didn't vote for Bush either who was a huge disaster.


    Throwing the "race" card in is pure nonsense.
    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism. The whole world has been running away from it, even changing the name to communism thus using propaganda to frighten the people into believing the system only brought devastation to any economy. Now they are having to look at the sense in it, and because there is no place left to go, they have to return to it to find refuge.

    I asked if some of you know that socialism finds its roots in Africa, not even you responded to that, and you usually notice these things. Am I right?[/QUOTE]
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism.
    wrong, Obama does not advocate socialism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism.
    wrong, Obama does not advocate socialism.
    my fault but

    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism. The whole world has been running away from it, even changing the name to communism thus using propaganda to frighten the people into believing the system only brought devastation to any economy. Now they are having to look at the sense in it, and because there is no place left to go, they have to return to it to find refuge.

    I asked if some of you know that socialism finds its roots in Africa, not even you responded to that, and you usually notice these things. Am I right?
    See post by Stargate #201

    was NOT my comment

    I neglected to delete it..



    and YES however, MY WORDS...Obama DOES ADVOCATE SOCIALISM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Did Obama promised to "fundamentally transform" the US? (like shredding the constitution and getting rid of habeus corpus? you have lost your damn mind!)
    Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about him promising to shred the constitution or get rid of habeus corpus.
    it does not surprise me that you are this thick. Shredding the Constitution and getting rid of Habeus Corpus is what W did. You seem to be ok with that. no temper-tantrums over that, but Obama actually trying to help the citizen's of the US draws your ire. Excellent priorities.
    Trying is the key word here. Liberalism always achieves the exact opposite of its stated intent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Did he or did he not say he wanted to fundamentally transform the US?
    That was your claim, support it.
    it's a well known quote, easy to find. Google it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    He said, megalomaniacally, "This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow, and our planet began to heal." So the point is, people are not just out of the blue inventing unrealistic expectations for him. it's him, making ridiculous promises and idiotic voters falling for it.
    How is it that you are extremely proficient in English (as shown by your excellent support of nina parsins questions in the education thread) but apparently can't spot a metaphor to save your life when it's uttered by obama? I think it's probably dishonest on your part and you know damn well it was a metaphor but choose to misinterpret it on purpose for the sake of your "team"
    Metaphor, sure, but you don't say something like that unless you have an extremely inflated ego. And again, the point is to show why people had exaggerated expectations. It's his own words.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf
    He does enforce federal laws
    Sure, if he likes them. Or he feels free to modify them at will, like extending Obamacare without any legislative justifications.
    There is absolutely no way you can legitimately complain about picking and choosing the laws the president follows in light of the extreme criminal activity of your favorite president. I could just imagine your outrage if the obama administration had a hand in leaking the identity of CIA operative and then commuted the prison sentence of the leaker. but because it was Cheney and Libby they get a pass right? So get out my face with that nonsense accusation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    Well, he bombed the shit out of Kadaffi, turning Libya into a haven for Al Qaeda. I still remember Hillary cackling maniacally, "We came, we saw, he died."
    SO, now you're a Kadaffi supporter? and that wasn't done out of Obama's need to start war but at the request of the oppressed people of Libya for help and Obama's strike had the blessing of the UN. None of which W had under his little adventure. They didn't ask W for help and the UN Forbid his invasion. see the difference yet? probably not be we all know that's by choice.
    The "oppressed people of Libya." That's propaganda. No, I am not a Kadaffi supporter, but I am in favor of policies that benefit the US. This didn't. Neither did helping overthrow Mubarak in Egypt in favor of the Muslim Brotherhood. Is this the only way we can discuss Obama - by comparing him to W?
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    It's funny how the people who like socialism also like Obama's policies, but then they swear his policies are nothing like socialism.
    His policies are nothing like socialism. If you've been paying attention you would know that. and there is no correlation to your statement and Obama's policies.
    It's funny how people who like Ice hockey claim soccer/football is nothing like Ice hockey. BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THE SAME! It's funny how people who claim they are not racist vote along the same party lines as the KKK. does one = the other? no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    What i said was that he is not opposing socialism, and he isn't.
    What the hell does that mean? Why would he need to?it's not an issue. It's only an issue because the right learned a new word and they have armed their hangers-on with it and they shout it every chance they get even though it doesn't apply. He is not opposing killing puppies either, does he really need to come out against all the shit that's common sense?
    It was a response to Stargate's claim. Try to keep up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    He is implementing as much of it as he can in the current political environment.
    No he's not. if that were true he would be squashing competition and he is not doing that there is still private markets and private sales.
    What makes you think he could do that in the current political environment? He's not a dictator, though I'm sure he'd love to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    It has nothing to do with race. No other president, regardless of their SKIN COLOR has been judged any better or worse than Obama, based on that.
    Agreed. Race is just a weapon the Democrats use as an all-purpose answer to any criticism of Obama. The fact is the opposition to Obama is no worse than it was to Carter or Clinton. It's verifiable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    It has nothing to do with race. No other president, regardless of their SKIN COLOR has been judged any better or worse than Obama, based on that.
    Agreed. Race is just a weapon the Democrats use as an all-purpose answer to any criticism of Obama. The fact is the opposition to Obama is no worse than it was to Carter or Clinton. It's verifiable.
    I AM a DEMOCRAT!

    I am offended by the race card!

    I find it UNACCEPTABLE to be played by EITHER party!! PERIOD!

    And agreed...all President's are criticized, and none of it nicely....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    It has nothing to do with race. No other president, regardless of their SKIN COLOR has been judged any better or worse than Obama, based on that.
    Agreed. Race is just a weapon the Democrats use as an all-purpose answer to any criticism of Obama. The fact is the opposition to Obama is no worse than it was to Carter or Clinton. It's verifiable.
    Well that's a bold face lie. I don't recall neither Carter or Clinton being called by the nationality of their fathers. The sound bites of being called "Kenyan" and "boy" are defaming his race. These words have been used by main stream opposition. I know of no President that has his nationality challenged like Obama did.

    Please verify where other Presidents in recent history have had similar experiences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMojo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    It has nothing to do with race. No other president, regardless of their SKIN COLOR has been judged any better or worse than Obama, based on that.
    Agreed. Race is just a weapon the Democrats use as an all-purpose answer to any criticism of Obama. The fact is the opposition to Obama is no worse than it was to Carter or Clinton. It's verifiable.
    Well that's a bold face lie. I don't recall neither Carter or Clinton being called by the nationality of their fathers. The sound bites of being called "Kenyan" and "boy" are defaming his race. These words have been used by main stream opposition. I know of no President that has his nationality challenged like Obama did.

    Please verify where other Presidents in recent history have had similar experiences.
    I spoke of relativity of accomplishment.

    Clinton just got called a male whore.

    Carter....a peanut farmer.

    So when is an insult anything less than an insult?
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    I spoke of relativity of accomplishment.

    Clinton just got called a male whore.

    Carter....a peanut farmer.

    So when is an insult anything less than an insult?
    When it becomes part of a propaganda message which a large part of public accepts as fact.
    Last edited by MrMojo1; April 28th, 2014 at 11:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMojo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    I spoke of relativity of accomplishment.

    Clinton just got called a male whore.

    Carter....a peanut farmer.

    So when is an insult anything less than an insult?
    When I becomes part of a propaganda message which a large part of public accepts as fact.
    weren't they all that?

    aren't they all that?

    doesn't matter.....

    every President has had criticism that was not complimentary.

    Obama is not special in that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    weren't they all that?

    aren't they all that?

    doesn't matter.....

    every President has had criticism that was not complimentary.

    Obama is not special in that.
    Please provide examples where another president was not considered natural born American.

    And the issues I listed before were part of mainstream opposition criticism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMojo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    weren't they all that?

    aren't they all that?

    doesn't matter.....

    every President has had criticism that was not complimentary.

    Obama is not special in that.
    Please provide examples where another president was not considered natural born American.

    And the issues I listed before were part of mainstream opposition criticism.
    In that you are correct but that wasn't what my point was.

    My point was.

    ALL PRESIDENTS HAVE HAD CRITICISM!

    THAT was my point.

    As I said.....nothing to do with race....and yes the race card came up....and no, people do not understand how we do our birth certificates in Hawai'i....and in Hawai'i a lot of stuff is frankly done butt ass backwards.

    MY POINT was

    as shown above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    With all due respect Harold, your expectations are what you want things to be, it does not have to follow reality. You want Obama to do this or that, but the opposing force will only allow that. I am very sorry that the expectations from a black president is way out of the order of reality. It would be nice if America did not have a so called race problem, and the founding fathers included all races in the political process. I agree with you that as a citizen you can only expect what you voted for, the expectancy from the presidency should be color blind, sadly that is not the reality. I have never heard, or read in all my life the negative things said about Obama as the president of the great country called The United States America, in the context of color.
    It has nothing to do with race. No other president, regardless of their SKIN COLOR has been judged any better or worse than Obama, based on that.

    Sorry.

    I think he is a bad President. I didn't vote for him. I wouldn't vote for him. I could care less if he was purple......I do not like him, nor trust him, nor seen him do much of anything great. BUT HE DOES PREEN VERY WELL!

    I didn't vote for Bush either who was a huge disaster.


    Throwing the "race" card in is pure nonsense.
    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism. The whole world has been running away from it, even changing the name to communism thus using propaganda to frighten the people into believing the system only brought devastation to any economy. Now they are having to look at the sense in it, and because there is no place left to go, they have to return to it to find refuge.

    I asked if some of you know that socialism finds its roots in Africa, not even you responded to that, and you usually notice these things. Am I right?
    [/QUOTE]

    Babe, I am not throwing the race card in the mix, it is already in there. I like what you said, its pretty clear to me what you are saying. I would not vote along race lines that is stupid, however Obama is not jugged alone on the work he did or did not do as a president, but mostly on the lines of a black man president. Therefore his legacy will be tainted by the writers of history, especially the racist ones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    Trying is the key word here. Liberalism always achieves the exact opposite of its stated intent.
    It’s his job to try to care for the citizens. It only looks “Liberal” because you are so hard right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    it's a well known quote, easy to find. Google it.
    You want me to do your work? To support your claim? Lazy.
    for you anyway
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...amentally-tra/

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    Metaphor, sure, but you don't say something like that unless you have an extremely inflated ego. And again, the point is to show why people had exaggerated expectations. It's his own words.
    If you know it’s a metaphor then why did you take it at face value? And yes you do say something like that to let your populace know that he’s working on fixing things. It’s nowhere near as inflated ego as running around telling everyone that “I’m the decider.” But, again, that’s not megalomaniacal in your book? Just when somebody metaphors out progress? Again, excellent priorities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    The "oppressed people of Libya." That's propaganda.
    Link?
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    ... but I am in favor of policies that benefit the US…
    Lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    Is this the only way we can discuss Obama - by comparing him to W?
    Are we really comparing him to W or are we just pointing out your extreme intellectual fraud when it comes to your complaints over the current commander and chief?
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    It was a response to Stargate's claim. Try to keep up.
    And my point/question still remains valid in response to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    What makes you think he could do that in the current political environment? He's not a dictator, though I'm sure he'd love to be.
    Then what are you bitching about if you know he can’t do it even if he wanted to? As far as Comparisons to W, funny how dictator musings are ok when it’s your guy. He can even pine for it.

    but something Obama has never said but you want him to say is somehow worse…
    Last edited by grmpysmrf; April 28th, 2014 at 09:57 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism.
    wrong, Obama does not advocate socialism.
    my fault but

    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism. The whole world has been running away from it, even changing the name to communism thus using propaganda to frighten the people into believing the system only brought devastation to any economy. Now they are having to look at the sense in it, and because there is no place left to go, they have to return to it to find refuge.

    I asked if some of you know that socialism finds its roots in Africa, not even you responded to that, and you usually notice these things. Am I right?
    See post by Stargate #201

    was NOT my comment

    I neglected to delete it..



    and YES however, MY WORDS...Obama DOES ADVOCATE SOCIALISM.
    We've had this type of conversation before. You can scream it all you want but that doesn't make it so.
    Obama is not squashing competition he's creating it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    It has nothing to do with race. No other president, regardless of their SKIN COLOR has been judged any better or worse than Obama, based on that.
    Agreed. Race is just a weapon the Democrats use as an all-purpose answer to any criticism of Obama. The fact is the opposition to Obama is no worse than it was to Carter or Clinton. It's verifiable.
    If that were true the race related death threats would not have gone up against the president 40,000% or some other ridiculous number that has never been seen by any other president.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMojo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    It has nothing to do with race. No other president, regardless of their SKIN COLOR has been judged any better or worse than Obama, based on that.
    Agreed. Race is just a weapon the Democrats use as an all-purpose answer to any criticism of Obama. The fact is the opposition to Obama is no worse than it was to Carter or Clinton. It's verifiable.
    Well that's a bold face lie. I don't recall neither Carter or Clinton being called by the nationality of their fathers. The sound bites of being called "Kenyan" and "boy" are defaming his race. These words have been used by main stream opposition. I know of no President that has his nationality challenged like Obama did.

    Please verify where other Presidents in recent history have had similar experiences.
    Cartoons showing the welfare stamps for obama that only serve chicken and watermelon. Limbaugh singing "Barack the magic negro." White guy born in canada has no problem getting the early nomination support for Prez by repubs and Tea party crowd. Nothing said about McCain being born in Panama when he ran for Prez.... no no no no no race has nothing to do with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMojo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    It has nothing to do with race. No other president, regardless of their SKIN COLOR has been judged any better or worse than Obama, based on that.
    Agreed. Race is just a weapon the Democrats use as an all-purpose answer to any criticism of Obama. The fact is the opposition to Obama is no worse than it was to Carter or Clinton. It's verifiable.
    Well that's a bold face lie. I don't recall neither Carter or Clinton being called by the nationality of their fathers. The sound bites of being called "Kenyan" and "boy" are defaming his race. These words have been used by main stream opposition. I know of no President that has his nationality challenged like Obama did.

    Please verify where other Presidents in recent history have had similar experiences.
    I spoke of relativity of accomplishment.
    So you changed the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe
    Clinton just got called a male whore.
    Still nothing about his race.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe
    Carter....a peanut farmer.
    By carter himself, I'm pretty sure that was in one of his speeches. and again, nothing on his race.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe
    So when is an insult anything less than an insult?
    When it's racist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMojo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    I spoke of relativity of accomplishment.

    Clinton just got called a male whore.

    Carter....a peanut farmer.

    So when is an insult anything less than an insult?
    When I becomes part of a propaganda message which a large part of public accepts as fact.
    weren't they all that?

    aren't they all that?

    doesn't matter.....

    every President has had criticism that was not complimentary.

    Obama is not special in that.
    it'd be nice if it was something other than his race for once. but that really can't happen now since that's what the opposition started with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMojo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    weren't they all that?

    aren't they all that?

    doesn't matter.....

    every President has had criticism that was not complimentary.

    Obama is not special in that.
    Please provide examples where another president was not considered natural born American.

    And the issues I listed before were part of mainstream opposition criticism.
    In that you are correct but that wasn't what my point was.

    My point was.

    ALL PRESIDENTS HAVE HAD CRITICISM!

    THAT was my point.
    Well, no kidding, but we were talking about this specific type of criticism never enjoyed by any other president.
    and in a new story just broken by babe, "ALL PRESIDENTS HAVE HAD CRITICISM!" stay tuned for next week when she tells us how water is wet.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe
    As I said.....nothing to do with race....
    and as we've pointed out it has everything to do with race since those criticisms that came up were racist and no other president has had those types of criticisms.
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    Kenyan is not a race. If Obama's mother had visited France around the time he was born, and his French grandmother had made comments about him being born there, then I suppose the birthers would be calling him a Frenchman. Would that mean the birthers hate the French?

    The story about the magic Negro is here. Magical Negro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It's not a term Limbaugh invented. It's a racial stereotype used in movies where a black person is portrayed as coming to the aid of a white person. It was applied to Obama by David Ehrenstein who wrote:
    He's there [Obama] to assuage white "guilt" (i.e., the minimal discomfort they feel) over the role of slavery and racial segregation in American history, while replacing stereotypes of a dangerous, highly sexualized black man with a benign figure for whom interracial sexual congress holds no interest.
    Nobody accused Spike Lee of racism when he used the term, and neither did they accuse Ehrenstein, who appears to be a liberal. So, he's immune.
    Limbaugh was using it to point out, quite correctly, that many whites voted for Obama, just because he was black in an atttempt to assuage their white guilt. Exactly what Ehrenstein said.
    Clinton had a special prosecutor to investigate his numerous scandal, and he was impeached. That never happened to Obama. People used to make lists of the people associated with Clinton who had died, which included Vince Foster and Ron Brown, who died in a plane crash with a mysteriously circular 40 caliber hole in his head. There were the accusations of drug dealing out of Mena Arkansas. Imagine the race card that could have been played about drug dealing accusations if Clinton were black. There was also a credible rape accusation by Kathleen Willey. Imagine the potential race card there. Blacks, rape, oooh, there's a stereotype for you. And let's not forget Hillary's cattle future trades. No racial stereotype there, but something else Obama never had to deal with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Kenyan is not a race.
    Don't be obtuse. When the words "Kenyan", "boy", are used in the context of insulting his race. They are used instead of the "N" word. When Rush L. used the term "boy" is wasn't to call him a young man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Kenyan is not a race. If Obama's mother had visited France around the time he was born, and his French grandmother had made comments about him being born there, then I suppose the birthers would be calling him a Frenchman. Would that mean the birthers hate the French?
    No they would probably be calling him a "moor"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    The story about the magic Negro is here. Magical Negro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It's not a term Limbaugh invented. It's a racial stereotype used in movies where a black person is portrayed as coming to the aid of a white person. It was applied to Obama by David Ehrenstein who wrote:
    He's there [Obama] to assuage white "guilt" (i.e., the minimal discomfort they feel) over the role of slavery and racial segregation in American history, while replacing stereotypes of a dangerous, highly sexualized black man with a benign figure for whom interracial sexual congress holds no interest.
    and this somehow makes it ok how?


    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Nobody accused Spike Lee of racism when he used the term, and neither did they accuse Ehrenstein, who appears to be a liberal. So, he's immune.
    Not surprising that you have no idea about the importance of context. Especially considering your (intentional) misinterpretation of "fundamentally change the landscape" remark.
    for your education. Barack the Magic Negro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Limbaugh was using it to point out, quite correctly, that many whites voted for Obama, just because he was black in an atttempt to assuage their white guilt.
    "quite correctly"? "Bla Bla bla bla race has nothing to do with it" says you and your stupid keyboard... The worst part about this is you have no idea that what he has said and how you have defended it is completely racist. you should be ashamed but the white pride that the right has sold to you forbids it. Or you're too immature to admit it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Exactly what Ehrenstein said.
    not even close to what Ehrenstein said. Again Context is apparently lost on you. You know for you being an admin and a mod on the science board you'd think your "reasearch" would be much better than "Well thats what the right wing pundits told me."


    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Clinton had a special prosecutor to investigate his numerous scandal, and he was impeached. That never happened to Obama.
    Not for want of trying that is. I constantly hear "impeach obama" and yet I have no idea what for, but I'm sure a special prosecutor would be a welcome addition, again, for what I don't know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    People used to make lists of the people associated with Clinton who had died, which included Vince Foster and Ron Brown, who died in a plane crash with a mysteriously circular 40 caliber hole in his head. There were the accusations of drug dealing out of Mena Arkansas. Imagine the race card that could have been played about drug dealing accusations if Clinton were black. There was also a credible rape accusation by Kathleen Willey. Imagine the potential race card there. Blacks, rape, oooh, there's a stereotype for you. And let's not forget Hillary's cattle future trades. No racial stereotype there, but something else Obama never had to deal with.
    What exactly is your point to this non-sequitur?
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post

    "quite correctly"? "Bla Bla bla bla race has nothing to do with it" says you and your stupid keyboard... The worst part about this is you have no idea that what he has said and how you have defended it is completely racist. you should be ashamed but the white pride that the right has sold to you forbids it. Or you're too immature to admit it.
    See, you can only play the race card so often, then it quits working. We don't care any more. You are the one missing the context. All you can see is that you have a preconceived idea that Limbaugh is a racist, so he's not allowed to say "Negro" even if he's referring to a racial stereotype and the term has already been used before.

    What exactly is your point to this non-sequitur?
    The point is, it goes against the claim that nothing ever happened like this, nobody before Obama ever had to deal with people saying anything about him before.
    Last edited by Harold14370; April 29th, 2014 at 01:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post

    "quite correctly"? "Bla Bla bla bla race has nothing to do with it" says you and your stupid keyboard... The worst part about this is you have no idea that what he has said and how you have defended it is completely racist. you should be ashamed but the white pride that the right has sold to you forbids it. Or you're too immature to admit it.
    See, you can only play the race card so often, then it quits working. We don't care any more. You are the one missing the context. All you can see is that you have a preconceived idea that Limbaugh is a racist, so he's not allowed to say "Negro" even if he's referring to a racial stereotype and the term has already been used before.
    It applies to how he's using it. the context in which he's using it. So, by your logic everyone can go around dropping N "bombs" cause the word has already been used before. I don't have a "preconceived idea that Limbaugh is a racist" he's proven that time and time again. "See, you can only play the race card so often, then it quits working. We don't care any more." lovely precedent. so you and your guttersnipes can be as racist as you want for a long time and then it doesn't count anymore. you are dreaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf
    What exactly is your point to this non-sequitur?
    The point is, it goes against the claim that nothing ever happened like this, nobody before Obama ever had to deal with people saying anything about him before.
    So all of Clinton's woes were because of his race? The Strawman you present is especially strawy today.

    I noticed you've ignored quite a bit of the rest of my posts. I'll assume it's because you have nothing to say to continue to back up your continued misinformation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    So, by your logic everyone can go around dropping N "bombs" cause the word has already been used before.
    Uh-oh, you mentioned the N word, You must be a racist.

    So all of Clinton's woes were because of his race? The Strawman you present is especially strawy today.
    You're being unusually thick. The claim was made that Obama is only being attacked because of his race. I have shown that Clinton was also attacked. Since he was white, it wasn't because of his race, so that shoots down your theory. I have also pointed out examples where, if Clinton were black, the attacks would have been perceived as racist. Too bad he was white, so you couldn't claim racism. How handy for you that Obama is black, so you can play the race card at every opportunity.
    I noticed you've ignored quite a bit of the rest of my posts. I'll assume it's because you have nothing to say to continue to back up your continued misinformation.
    You haven't posted anything new or interesting worth responding to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism.
    wrong, Obama does not advocate socialism.
    my fault but

    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism. The whole world has been running away from it, even changing the name to communism thus using propaganda to frighten the people into believing the system only brought devastation to any economy. Now they are having to look at the sense in it, and because there is no place left to go, they have to return to it to find refuge.

    I asked if some of you know that socialism finds its roots in Africa, not even you responded to that, and you usually notice these things. Am I right?
    See post by Stargate #201

    was NOT my comment

    I neglected to delete it..



    and YES however, MY WORDS...Obama DOES ADVOCATE SOCIALISM.
    We've had this type of conversation before. You can scream it all you want but that doesn't make it so.
    Obama is not squashing competition he's creating it.
    And we shall never agree on this.
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    Barrack Obamas legacy will stand out because he is black. That's the main thing he will be remembered by. I am happy that the white human race has evolved in America to allow such a thing. The fact that certain republicans were terrified at the prospect and have opposed him (more than they possibly would if he was white ) has made it a little more interesting. His speech to the middle east a few years back was just what it was....words....he just pulled out of Iraq rather than stay....same in Afghanistan. I like him myself. As politicians go. He seems to have tried to make a socialist change ( with healthcare ) and fairplay to him for it. How can we be rich without poor? All governments should do more for those who struggle..either by I.q or where they are born. Democrats seem to lean that way I feel, but really I don't understand American politics too much. Presidential campaigns are Hollywood production anyway aren't they? ...just like ours in the U,k but you spend more money. No I truly believe he will be remembered first and foremost because he is black. If that has made black people in the U.s.a, lives better, then good. I doubt it though.:-)
    Last edited by jonio; April 29th, 2014 at 04:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonio View Post
    Barrack Obamas legacy will stand out because he is black. That's the main thing he will be remembered by. I am happy that the white human race has evolved in America to allow such a thing. The fact that certain republicans were terrified at the prospect and have opposed him (more than they possibly would if he was white ) has made it a little more interesting. His speech to the middle east a few years back was just what it was....words....he just pulled out of Iraq rather than stay....same in Afghanistan. I like him myself. As politicians go. He seems to have tried to make a socialist change ( with healthcare ) and fairplay to him for it. How can we be rich without poor? All governments should do more for those who struggle..either by I.q or where they are born. Democrats seem to lean that way I feel, but really I don't understand American politics too much. Presidential campaigns are Hollywood production anyway aren't they? ...just like ours in the U,k but you spend more money. No I truly believe he will be remembered first and foremost because he is black. If that has made black people in the U.s.a, lives better, then good. I doubt it though.:-)
    I too sadly feel that Jonio is right in his assumption that Obama will mainly be remembered because he is black. I know many are hiding about the black truth, and that is to be expected. I think America has brought this on themselves, although I am beginning to believe that the younger generation are looking at thing differently now, and rightly so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    So, by your logic everyone can go around dropping N "bombs" cause the word has already been used before.
    Uh-oh, you mentioned the N word, You must be a racist.
    Way to dodge the point, Again context matters, talk about thick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf
    So all of Clinton's woes were because of his race? The Strawman you present is especially strawy today.
    You're being unusually thick.
    funny considering you have yet get even one point across or address any of the specifics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    The claim was made that Obama is only being attacked because of his race. I have shown that Clinton was also attacked.Since he was white, it wasn't because of his race, so that shoots down your theory. I have also pointed out examples where, if Clinton were black, the attacks would have been perceived as racist. Too bad he was white, so you couldn't claim racism. How handy for you that Obama is black, so you can play the race card at every opportunity.
    Again, talk about being thick? I think you project way too much. Had Clinton ever been attacked for his race? The answer to that riddle is no. One attack is not the same as all of the others. Had clinton been black and no one dressed him up like a witch doctor, or put down his wife as being a centerfold for nat geo, or increased the racial death threats against him, or had chicken and watermelon food stamps drawn up in his name, then you couldn't get away with saying it isnt because he's black, but when that's the brunt of the criticisms it certainly is hard to take "the real" criticisms at face value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf
    I noticed you've ignored quite a bit of the rest of my posts. I'll assume it's because you have nothing to say to continue to back up your continued misinformation.
    You haven't posted anything new or interesting worth responding to.
    I'm sure what you meant to say is "Rush hasn't told me what to 'think' yet." Don't worry, I get it, you're just a grunt you leave the intellectual work for someone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism.
    wrong, Obama does not advocate socialism.
    my fault but

    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism. The whole world has been running away from it, even changing the name to communism thus using propaganda to frighten the people into believing the system only brought devastation to any economy. Now they are having to look at the sense in it, and because there is no place left to go, they have to return to it to find refuge.

    I asked if some of you know that socialism finds its roots in Africa, not even you responded to that, and you usually notice these things. Am I right?
    See post by Stargate #201

    was NOT my comment

    I neglected to delete it..



    and YES however, MY WORDS...Obama DOES ADVOCATE SOCIALISM.
    We've had this type of conversation before. You can scream it all you want but that doesn't make it so.
    Obama is not squashing competition he's creating it.
    And we shall never agree on this.
    wanting it to be true doesn't make it so.
    So, I'll tell you what, how about this? show me one instance of business that he has squashed and is running strictly through the state. you can't do it. Not even health care. All he did with health care was loosen the stranglehold of the monopoly (which is no competition and essentially fascist) that insurance has held. they still turn a profit, it's still privately ran. Why? I have no idea. we don't have to pay out of pocket for the safety of our possessions why should we have to pay out of pocket for the safety of our lives? but whatever, that's beside the point, what businesses has he taken over and claimed for the state? Can't say the car industries because those loans are paid off and the government has nothing to do with them anymore.
    So, again pray-tell, any one example of Obama socializing anything?
    I eagerly await your response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism.
    wrong, Obama does not advocate socialism.
    my fault but

    Obama did not advocate socialism all by himself, it was in pursuing the Soviet agenda that America got caught up in the agony of socialism. The whole world has been running away from it, even changing the name to communism thus using propaganda to frighten the people into believing the system only brought devastation to any economy. Now they are having to look at the sense in it, and because there is no place left to go, they have to return to it to find refuge.

    I asked if some of you know that socialism finds its roots in Africa, not even you responded to that, and you usually notice these things. Am I right?
    See post by Stargate #201

    was NOT my comment

    I neglected to delete it..



    and YES however, MY WORDS...Obama DOES ADVOCATE SOCIALISM.
    We've had this type of conversation before. You can scream it all you want but that doesn't make it so.
    Obama is not squashing competition he's creating it.
    And we shall never agree on this.
    wanting it to be true doesn't make it so.
    So, I'll tell you what, how about this? show me one instance of business that he has squashed and is running strictly through the state. you can't do it. Not even health care. All he did with health care was loosen the stranglehold of the monopoly (which is no competition and essentially fascist) that insurance has held. they still turn a profit, it's still privately ran. Why? I have no idea. we don't have to pay out of pocket for the safety of our possessions why should we have to pay out of pocket for the safety of our lives? but whatever, that's beside the point, what businesses has he taken over and claimed for the state? Can't say the car industries because those loans are paid off and the government has nothing to do with them anymore.
    So, again pray-tell, any one example of Obama socializing anything?
    I eagerly await your response.

    You shall be waiting.

    As I said. We won't agree and I'm done.

    I don't owe you anything. I stated how I see things. You don't agree with me. I will never agree with you....no point.

    Will see, however, if my instincts about people serve me correctly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    wanting it to be true doesn't make it so.
    So, I'll tell you what, how about this? show me one instance of business that he has squashed and is running strictly through the state. you can't do it. Not even health care. All he did with health care was loosen the stranglehold of the monopoly (which is no competition and essentially fascist) that insurance has held. they still turn a profit, it's still privately ran. Why? I have no idea. we don't have to pay out of pocket for the safety of our possessions why should we have to pay out of pocket for the safety of our lives? but whatever, that's beside the point, what businesses has he taken over and claimed for the state? Can't say the car industries because those loans are paid off and the government has nothing to do with them anymore.
    So, again pray-tell, any one example of Obama socializing anything?
    I eagerly await your response.
    You shall be waiting.
    Understood that it's because you can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babe
    As I said. We won't agree and I'm done.
    that's hardly a reason for your ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Babe
    I don't owe you anything.
    Odd you would write that when someone has asked you for an explanation of an opinion in a thread that you volunteered to enter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Babe
    I stated how I see things.
    of course you did but why you see them that way is quite another thing. That Chess guy stated how he sees Aliens everywhere but failed to deliver any credible reasons for doing so. No facts, is hardly a reason to hold a stated belief...and be so staunch on it.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Babe
    You don't agree with me. I will never agree with you....no point.
    I understand and graciously accept your resignation to this matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    wanting it to be true doesn't make it so.
    So, I'll tell you what, how about this? show me one instance of business that he has squashed and is running strictly through the state. you can't do it. Not even health care. All he did with health care was loosen the stranglehold of the monopoly (which is no competition and essentially fascist) that insurance has held. they still turn a profit, it's still privately ran. Why? I have no idea. we don't have to pay out of pocket for the safety of our possessions why should we have to pay out of pocket for the safety of our lives? but whatever, that's beside the point, what businesses has he taken over and claimed for the state? Can't say the car industries because those loans are paid off and the government has nothing to do with them anymore.
    So, again pray-tell, any one example of Obama socializing anything?
    I eagerly await your response.
    You shall be waiting.
    Understood that it's because you can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babe
    As I said. We won't agree and I'm done.
    that's hardly a reason for your ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Babe
    I don't owe you anything.
    Odd you would write that when someone has asked you for an explanation of an opinion in a thread that you volunteered to enter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Babe
    I stated how I see things.
    of course you did but why you see them that way is quite another thing. That Chess guy stated how he sees Aliens everywhere but failed to deliver any credible reasons for doing so. No facts, is hardly a reason to hold a stated belief...and be so staunch on it.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Babe
    You don't agree with me. I will never agree with you....no point.
    I understand and graciously accept your resignation to this matter.
    I can....

    Economically, Could Obama Be America's Worst President? - Forbes

    Barack Obama’s Foreign Policy Failures Are Proving His Cynics Right - TIME

    Barack Obama's Presidency Is A Complete Failure By His Own, Self-Imposed Standards - Forbes


    Is President Obama Really A Socialist? Let's Analyze Obamanomics - Forbes


    Obama admits he


    and I am sure you can find rebuttals to all of these.


    He is a socialist, probably in the lesser sense of the term, and he has not been a good President.

    IMHO



    So end of subject for you and I.


    NOW I DO resign.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    I can....
    But you didn't

    Basically the author is bitter that Obama didn't fix W's gigantic failure of a presidency fast or good enough. ONE big opinion piece with not a single mention of any government take overs.

    Foreign Policy has nothing to do with Domestic "Socialism." Not one mention of Obama being a Socialist or any government take overs.

    Obama can't make businesses hire people or make them hire people for a living wage. Not sure what this has to do with him being a socialist. Not one mention of socialism or any government takeovers.


    Did this guy fail Math? His group paid Tax #'s don't equal 100% Moreover he has manipulated the stats to show that the Rich pay too much when even warren buffet shared that his cleaning lady pays more taxes than he. This guy's whole article is, much like your stated opinion, unsupported opinions with all the appropriate scary buzz words in place to scare the terrified villagers. OR intentionally twisted data with much of the rest of the Data omitted in order to make his claim


    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Because he quoted a movie (quoted a movie based on hearsay.) where the context was not included... Surely you can't be serious?


    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    and I am sure you can find rebuttals to all of these.
    "Find rebuttals" HA! I just read them, I need not "find rebuttals," since I have the ability to think and have common sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    He is a socialist, probably in the lesser sense of the term,
    Still not evidenced


    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    and he has not been a good President.
    Compared to who/what?

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    IMHO
    I don't doubt that.



    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    So end of subject for you and I.
    Maybe for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    NOW I DO resign.
    That is fine. Most people are not happy outside of their comfort zones whether what they believe is real or not.

    It is comfortable for you to call him a socialist because actually learning what his policies are and listening to the man speak would require too much effort on your part. IT's much more comfortable for you to have people tell you what your opinion is. I get it, most today are lazy in this respect.
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    I have listened to his speeches.

    Aloha
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I have listened to his speeches.

    Aloha
    He doesn't mention socialism there either. you gotta admit though, it is nice to hear someone who can speak for a change!
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    he's nothing special...

    Just another politician in a long line, he made promises he couldn't keep.
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    and his true charm is being non-white (I won't be a dope and say he's black, his mother was black, got it..) and having charisma.

    an average pres in the grand scheme, no better than his immediate four predecessors. Last great US pres IMHO was FDR, and this was LONG ago...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Unless some other major event happens Obama's legacy will probably be as a good, but not fantastic president.

    + Pulled us out of an economic disaster, (that gets a president huge kudos regardless of anything else
    I guess if your using the stock market as your indicator it could be seen as economic growth but in reality the economy is still a disaster as most of the blue collar jobs are regulated out of business in the USA.

    + Ending two wars. (another biggy)
    More like quit two conflicts and stir the pot elsewhere. These really were not wars. War is when the other country has the ability to fight on an even basis.

    + Moving closer to universal health care. (folks will disagree but it's pretty much the standard in developed nations for good reason
    I agree with you on this. We are on the way to universal healthcare. Because of the ACA regulations many industries have went to part time workers to avoid having to cover that employee. Most of these part time employees need to work 2 jobs instead of 1. Many will qualify for medicaid. So the taxpayers will get stuck with this bill.

    + Increasing liberty for gays and other groups
    Sure, some of these groups include satanists who recently wanted to hold a black mass at Harvard. But if a Christian decides to read a Bible in school or feels that the ACA is forcing them to use their tax money to pay for abortions they are automatically osterized.

    - Complete failure of leadership to move Congress on anything his second term.
    I blame both the Democrats and Republicans for this. Obama is stuck having to use executive powers to make change happen.

    - Failing to control debt of social programs.
    Democrats have always been the leaders in social experiments that cost big money and often times ruin the economy by doing so.

    - Failing to tackle major environmental and sustainability issues (future generations will condemn all of us)
    Time will tell but I feel that innovation and new technologies will save future generations as it has our generation. Afterall, we are America.
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    It seems that many here believe that a President actually has control over conditions like the economy. The reality is that the group that supports the President has the majority of the say so. These supporters include other politicians but also include many others that have more sway.
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    I LOVE MY COUNTRY!

    I have travelled extensively in my life.

    I LOVE my country.

    But we have serious warts to fix...in many ways...

    I find it rather funny however....that my daughter makes the same money overseas as her cousin does here.....and she pays 20% LESS tax on it....so I always chuckle at those political tax arguments
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple007 View Post
    I guess if your using the stock market as your indicator it could be seen as economic growth but in reality the economy is still a disaster as most of the blue collar jobs are regulated out of business in the USA.

    We don't want those crap and environmentally damaging jobs here. And given more than half the population invest in stocks....yes the stock market is still important as a measure.

    More like quit two conflicts and stir the pot elsewhere. These really were not wars. War is when the other country has the ability to fight on an even basis.

    We achieved our objectives in both places, though Afghan might turn out bad down the road. Your definition of war is ludicrous (I'm a student and have practiced war), most wars and usually the ones worth fighting are completely lop sided. More than a 100,000 disabled vets (including this one) might disagree about your dismissal of our enemy's ability to fight.

    I agree with you on this. We are on the way to universal healthcare. Because of the ACA regulations many industries have went to part time workers to avoid having to cover that employee.

    This was covered in a recent thread...the law is actually pretty solid in not allowing it to happen since part time help are considered proportionally as full time employees. Probably why there hasn't been a rush to part time help as well (or not more than already existing trends).

    + Increasing liberty for gays and other groups
    Sure, some of these groups include satanists who recently wanted to hold a black mass at Harvard. But if a Christian decides to read a Bible in school or feels that the ACA is forcing them to use their tax money to pay for abortions they are automatically osterized.

    Not sure what examples you specifically have in mind or whether they represent a wider trends. Also hard not to notice the bias for Christians over "Satan" worshipers implied in your post.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    And given more than half the population invest in stocks.....
    No they don't. You need to cite this nonsense!

    But new data from Pew Research suggests that more than half (53 percent) of Americans have absolutely no money in the stock market, including retirement accounts.
    How Many Americans Even Own Stocks?


    and this data is already a year old.

    According to research about 20 million people own individual stock. Individual stock, Wwich is what people are thinking when others mention being invested in the stock market. Any other type of stock market business isn't associated with the individual at all. they have no voice and no control over how the stocks are handled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Also hard not to notice the bias for Christians over "Satan" worshipers implied in your post.
    There is no bias. the Satan Worship showed up because the Christians plaster their crap all over the government hall. If the Christians get their religion recognized by the government then everybody else should have the right to get theirs recognized too.

    Regardless of the argument you are trying to make. Christians are NOT persecuted in this country.
    Last edited by grmpysmrf; May 14th, 2014 at 02:26 PM.
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  62. #262  
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    And given more than half the population invest in stocks.....
    No they don't. You need to cite this nonsense!

    But new data from Pew Research suggests that more than half (53 percent) of Americans have absolutely no money in the stock market, including retirement accounts.
    How Many Americans Even Own Stocks?


    and this data is already a year old.

    According to research about 20 million people own individual stock. Individual stock, Wwich is what people are thinking when others mention being invested in the stock market. Any other type of stock market business isn't associated with the individual at all. they have no voice and no control over how the stocks are handled.

    Your own citation refutes your that my claim is nonsense. You can't dismiss the stock market when over half of American invest in them--since they decided to carry the stock or mutual fund that invest in that stock it's very much a valid measure. The internal management of those companies doesn't matter much since those investors also accepted those conditions and can pull out when they wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Also hard not to notice the bias for Christians over "Satan" worshipers implied in your post.
    There is no bias. the Satan Worship showed up because the Christians plaster their crap all over the government hall. If the Christians get their religion recognized by the government then everybody else should have the right to get theirs recognized too.
    And? Though is would be preferable that no religious icons of any kind be posted in government buildings anywhere...and to my knowledge they generally aren't.

    [\quote]Christians are NOT persecuted in this country.
    [/QUOTE] I agree. If anything they get far too much influence in the government.
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  63. #263  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    And given more than half the population invest in stocks.....
    No they don't. You need to cite this nonsense!

    But new data from Pew Research suggests that more than half (53 percent) of Americans have absolutely no money in the stock market, including retirement accounts.
    How Many Americans Even Own Stocks?

    Your own citation refutes your that my claim is nonsense.

    My own citations refutes my claim? How does more than half (53%) of Americans having NO MONEY in the stock market refute my claim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    You can't dismiss the stock market when over half of American invest in them--

    They don't invest directly, and so that number is misleading at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    since they decided to carry the stock or mutual fund that invest in that stock it's very much a valid measure.

    I disagree. for many a 401K is a requirement of the job's retirement plan. I't's not the individual investing, it's the company doing so in the individuals name. So, at best it's the company's investment not the individuals, The idea that the company plans to hand over the $$ to the individual is incidental. It's the company investing not the individual.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    The internal management of those companies doesn't matter much since those investors also accepted those conditions and can pull out when they wish.

    They can not pull out when they wish. They are hit with penalties and sometimes freezes where they can't touch the money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Also hard not to notice the bias for Christians over "Satan" worshipers implied in your post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    There is no bias. the Satan Worship showed up because the Christians plaster their crap all over the government hall. If the Christians get their religion recognized by the government then everybody else should have the right to get theirs recognized too.

    And? Though is would be preferable that no religious icons of any kind be posted in government buildings anywhere...and to my knowledge they generally aren't.

    I guess I misunderstood the context of your post. I'm sorry. yes, we are in agreement here.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Christians are NOT persecuted in this country.
    I agree. If anything they get far too much influence in the government.
    Yeah, I umm, Yeah once again, I umm... Yeah we're in agreement. Sorry about that!
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  64. #264  
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    And given more than half the population invest in stocks.....
    No they don't. You need to cite this nonsense!

    But new data from Pew Research suggests that more than half (53 percent) of Americans have absolutely no money in the stock market, including retirement accounts.
    How Many Americans Even Own Stocks?

    Your own citation refutes your that my claim is nonsense.

    My own citations refutes my claim? How does more than half (53%) of Americans having NO MONEY in the stock market refute my claim?


    They are about the same time. I'm not going to quibble over a few %, we can both safely say about half the population invest in stocks. That's enough to support both our literal positions as well as to say it's certainly not nonsense, and assert that the stock market is a valid, if incomplete metric of the economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    since they decided to carry the stock or mutual fund that invest in that stock it's very much a valid measure.

    I disagree. for many a 401K is a requirement of the job's retirement plan. I't's not the individual investing, it's the company doing so in the individuals name. So, at best it's the company's investment not the individuals, The idea that the company plans to hand over the $$ to the individual is incidental. It's the company investing not the individual.

    Quibbling. No one forces people to work at a specific company, and I doubt many force them into their retirement plans either. Just about every body and company invest in stocks because it beats everything else by a long shot in the long run.

    They are hit with penalties and sometimes freezes where they can't touch the money.
    Most retirement plans are pretty easy to roll over into another plan of the same form or another plan entirely--investors have huge flexibility about what to do with their money.


    Np. I think we see influence of religion and government about the same--the Satan comment through me off and I mistook your meaning.

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    We don't want those crap and environmentally damaging jobs here. And given more than half the population invest in stocks....yes the stock market is still important as a measure.
    It seems you are cherry picking just a bit. A crap job to you may be a way of life for another. Educated liberals welcome job outsourcing when it suits them, imo. Does it matter if these environmentally damaging jobs are outsourced to other countries ? Thats ridiculous as the product is still environmentally damaging or even more so when the manufacturing takes place in countries like China.

    The assumption that half the population invests in stocks is somewhat lopsided as the private investor owns only a fraction of the net worth of all of these investments but because of government regulations, the private sector does own much of the debt. Using the market as a economic indicator is not a good picture of the countries overall economic health because of the money poured into equities through quantitative easing.

    Last January the real unemployment rate was at 37% and the misery index was at 40% here in the USA. Should this be pinned on Obama just because he was president through out this time period ? Maybe ? idk.
    Wall Street adviser: Actual unemployment is 37.2%, 'misery index' worst in 40 years | WashingtonExaminer.com
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  66. #266  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple007 View Post
    Last January the real unemployment rate was at 37% and the misery index was at 40% here in the USA. Should this be pinned on Obama just because he was president through out this time period ? Maybe ? idk.
    Wall Street adviser: Actual unemployment is 37.2%, 'misery index' worst in 40 years | WashingtonExaminer.com
    Rather entertaining redefinition of the misery index. Fortunately I was around the first time it was used and know better. Unemployment has never included the disabled, retired, nor homemakers who've decided to stay home raise the kids right and not look for outside work. In an aging populations, the number of folks disabled and retired is going up; this is true in all developed nations.

    --

    For those who haven't seen it before the misery index was coined during the 70s and popularized by Reagan to describe inflation + unemployment rate (part of his successful pitch against Carter), which today stands about 9 or 10. As bad as things got during the recent recession, the last 70s, early 80s were much much worse.

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  67. #267  
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    I actually voted for Carter. Big mistake.

    Anyway, the USA , under Obama's' leadership, created about a million jobs. Only 25% of these new jobs are full time opportunities. The reason why there are no full time jobs is because of the ACA requirement to provide healthcare to full time employees.

    Obama will be remembered as the tax and regulate president, and possibly even a redistributionist . Just because a few sectors of the economy have improved doesnt mean the economy is in good shape.
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  68. #268  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple007 View Post
    I actually voted for Carter. Big mistake.

    Anyway, the USA , under Obama's' leadership, created about a million jobs. Only 25% of these new jobs are full time opportunities. The reason why there are no full time jobs is because of the ACA requirement to provide healthcare to full time employees.
    Huh?
    Fraction of part time jobs has actually gone down since the passage of ACA. And if you actually understood the law you'd understand companies can't avoid the requirements by switching....I got the education myself in a recent thread.

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  69. #269  
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    75 Percent Of Jobs Created This Year Were Part-Time Due To Weak Economy, Obamacare Concerns

    Most retailers and restaurants are only opening positions for part time, low wage employment. The ACA has caused uncertainty and uncertainty causes business to hesitate in regards to hiring new full time employees, imo. The reality is a better economy would create more full time jobs regardless of all regulations or uncertainty.

    For many people, the perception is it is better to collect aid than to work and because the politicians have made it so easy to game the system many people are just getting by better on assistance.
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    Part time employment is volatile but here's the long term view below that shows numbers on average have been going up for full time at nearly twice the pace as part time jobs since ACA passage. (see below)

    It is also disappointing you haven't read up on how the law works. The law's requirements are set to equivalent full time employees, not just number of full time employees. If you replace a full time (say 40 hour worker) for two 20 hour workers, you still have the equivalent of one full time employee--there's simply no incentive to take on more part time employees because of ACA--ACA offers no advantage (or loop whole) for doing so.




    But moving on, there are problems with the economy for sure, and the division of wealth is growing and unhealthy. Some is because technology continues to replace low skill labor and some sub cultures that aren't teaching the education is needed. As we also see in the recent post in this thread...there's also some who are able but no investing in their own nations economy and thus missing out on the best and most secure means to make long term growth. Personally I'd change the tax code so cap gains counted the same as earned income...that alone would fix a lot of things.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; May 15th, 2014 at 12:04 AM.
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  71. #271  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    They are about the same time. I'm not going to quibble over a few %, we can both safely say about half the population invest in stocks.

    I'll concede the point. But I will note that when I first read that that it conjures the image of joe public walking around with a stock portfolio, when that is certainly not the case. 1/2 of America is not in the stock market by that measure (It's barely 20% and then by that margin it's the top 20%)... which is really what I thought you were getting at. So, my wrong interpretation. Although, I still say your company investing on your behalf is really you inadvertently playing the market and not so much directly. But the point remains, you are correct they are invested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quibbling. No one forces people to work at a specific company, and I doubt many force them into their retirement plans either.

    I don't think this is quibbling at all. You'd be hard pressed to find any private sector job that earns a salary that doesn't have a 401k


    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Just about every body and company invest in stocks because it beats everything else by a long shot in the long run.

    It doesn't beat the pensions of yesteryear that was guaranteed money and not tied to the whims of market trends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Most retirement plans are pretty easy to roll over into another plan of the same form or another plan entirely--investors have huge flexibility about what to do with their money.

    What else is there besides 401K, now?
    "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
    President Dwight Eisenhower
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple007 View Post
    The reason why there are no full time jobs is because of the ACA requirement to provide healthcare to full time employees.
    There hasn't been full time jobs to be had long before ACA showed up. I actually take issue with the "misery index under bush as well. from 2004 to about 2009 we were seeing large established companies going out of business right and left, Circuit city, K*B Toys, Mervyns to name just a few. But Lynx is correct as bad as it was under bush and even now it's not even close to the Reagan years.
    "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
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