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Thread: European Union mistakes regarding Ukraine

  1. #1 European Union mistakes regarding Ukraine 
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    I think that EU made a mistake (though not complete) when they proposed Ukraine just to sign association agreement.
    But in the same time didn't even mention possibility for Ukraine to join EU in the future. The agreement ignores economic realities such as dependence of Ukrainian economy on Russia and impossibility for Ukrainian goods to compete with EU goods. It was one of the reasons that officially triggered present turmoil in Ukraine.
    I think that if Western countries really want to see Ukraine drifting in EU direction they would need to provide some large scale administrative and managerial help to Ukraine to help them to adjust to European economic and political standards. And make detailed agreement with Ukraine on which EU market segment Ukraine will be allowed to come in with their goods.


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  3. #2  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    Im not sure we can make a complete evaluation of the Ukraine situation if you focus on economics while not considering that NATO is ramping up missile deployment and programs in a ~lets start WW3 against Russia~ posture.
    If we want to see Ukraine drift towards EU, imo, it would be best to engage in disarmament agreements with Russia, and refrain from supporting terrorists and coup d'etats in countries closer to Russia than the us, (though stopping terrorism and coup d'etat would be welcomed even if less related to Ukraine, oh I forgot, the US isnt doing any of that, right, I have to remember who Im discussing with, so never mind that), as a complementary policy to the various economic aid scenario.


    Imo the situation in the Ukraine, the posturing and interventions of the US (that the american public are oblivious to) as well as the interventions of the Russian, is by far the greatest threat to world peace and god forbid to humanity we have right now.


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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Since the Ukraine prints its own money , why doesn't it just print more like the USA did when it needed more money?
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    not ADM!N grmpysmrf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Since the Ukraine prints its own money , why doesn't it just print more like the USA did when it needed more money?
    we didn't print it! we borrowed it from china,
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  6. #5  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    No you did not. You have a printing plant run by the government so just start the presses and stop asking for handouts.
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  7. #6  
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    Ukraine's goods are wheat and IT technicians. They produce a lot of wheat.
    The Ukraine is also bankrupt even after recieving billions of dollars in aid from Russia as well as the West.
    It is unlikely Ukraine would ever make it economically in the EU without huge continuing support payments, and maybe not even then.

    On the other hand Russia supplies about 1/3 of the fuel that Europe needs to run its economy and if anything happens that forces Russia to shut off shipments to the west it could be a huge economic disaster for the EU.
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    not ADM!N grmpysmrf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    No you did not. You have a printing plant run by the government so just start the presses and stop asking for handouts.
    Why would we be asking for hand outs if we just printed it?
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    On the other hand Russia supplies about 1/3 of the fuel that Europe needs to run its economy and if anything happens that forces Russia to shut off shipments to the west it could be a huge economic disaster for the EU.
    Only natural gas, and can be compensated for without many consequences to EU nations: Europe less reliant on Russian gas through Ukraine | Reuters

    On the hand Russia's and Ukraine's economies are much more vulnerable to any economic shocks than EU.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Since the Ukraine prints its own money , why doesn't it just print more like the USA did when it needed more money?
    Sounds like a great way to create hyperinflation.
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  11. #10  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    No you did not. You have a printing plant run by the government so just start the presses and stop asking for handouts.
    Why would we be asking for hand outs if we just printed it?
    That's what I do not understand. I wish someone in the government there could explain this to the world.
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  12. #11  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    "Sounds like a great way to create hyperinflation"

    imo, printing money does not automatically create hyperinflation anymore than driving a car would automatically mean that you crash into a tree. The printing press meme is the magicians distraction that takes the attention away from the production side of the equation, and a the circulation velocity, and the fact that in a fractional reserve banking system 95% is not even printed but simply written into existence.


    (oh im wrong, because someone will point to a photo of a german car crashing into a war reperations syphoning of production tree)

    the creation of money as a solution depends on a number of factors including what the money is used for production etc, the Worgl experimennt appears to have worthy elements
    Last edited by icewendigo; March 5th, 2014 at 06:25 PM.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    "Sounds like a great way to create hyperinflation"

    imo, printing money does not automatically create hyperinflation anymore than driving a car would automatically mean that you crash into a tree. The printing press meme is the magicians distraction that takes the attention away from the production side of the equation, and a the circulation velocity, and the fact that in a fractional reserve banking system 95% is not even printed but simply written into existence.


    (oh im wrong, because someone will point to a photo of a german car crashing into a war reperations syphoning of production tree)

    the creation of money as a solution depends on a number of factors including what the money is used for production etc, the Worgl experimennt appears to have worthy elements
    No one said it would automatically cause hyperinflation. That the value of money decreases when more is in circulation is an established fact.
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  14. #13  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    That the value of money decreases when more is in circulation is an established fact.
    No imo its not a fact, it depends on whether this money increases the production/goods/services or not, if more money is put in circulation out of the blue without associated production of more goods and services (AND it is not hoarded/lowering of the circulation velocity of which ever amount exists) THEN its value decreases, imo, I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it.
    Last edited by icewendigo; March 6th, 2014 at 07:47 AM.
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