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Thread: Ukraine crisis

  1. #1301  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    Next time, just say, "Sorry for my outburst. It was uncalled for" and move on. It's less embarrassing than stories about people hijacking your account and flying into a fit of rage.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  2. #1302  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Next time, just say, "Sorry for my outburst. It was uncalled for" and move on. It's less embarrassing than stories about people hijacking your account and flying into a fit of rage.
    I'd prefer the embarassment. I may write a lot of stupid shit, but I don't want to be credited for what I actually don't.
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  3. #1303  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CEngelbrecht View Post
    I find it hard to imagine the guy in question is a spy for Moscow.
    It doesn't matter.
    It is gone now.
    He totally missed the point
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jonio View Post
    Still waiting for an opinion Dan ....... about Crimea....
    The Americans should have kept their noses out of the politics in the Ukraine. They already had a sample of how Russia would react to threats on their borders when they tried getting Georgia to put missiles in place and to destroy the breakaway Republics South Ossetia and Abkhazia.If It was not for USA interfering the Russians would have been stuck with the Ukraine like a millstone around their necks. Instead Russia will end up with a few pieces of territory that actually matter to them and succeed in dumping the bloodsucking vampire the Ukraine has always been onto Europe and America.I think Russia wins on this one and USA loses.Unless of course USA is dumb enough to start WWIII over it and then either China or India wins.edit for those with short memories:2008 South Ossetia CrisisRusso-Georgian war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Bloodsucking vampire that's Ukraine? You mean the corrupt government Putin financed and backed that was ousted? You haven't got a clue have you? Just conspiracy nonsense worse than Romank. You don't support Russians , you support Putin.
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    I miss Romank already. I don't speak Russian, so there's no way I'm going to be able to pour through a bunch of Russian media outlets to see what people in that part of the world are reading.

    But he brought it on himself, with the quadruple posts and all. Better to just make one long post (since that is permitted).

    His content really wasn't any worse than half the posters on here. There are whole pages of this thread without him on them that still have no verifyable content. At least some of his posts can be followed up and confirmed by a reliable source.

    Quote Originally Posted by CEngelbrecht View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CEngelbrecht View Post
    I see that one of "my" posts has been deleted, which is quite alright. It said something like "death to all Russians", "see you in the fallout zone". I just want to clarify, I actually didn't write that, and I would never word it anything as strongly as that. It's difficult to explain, I have had a series of discussions with a friend of mine about this topic and told him about the discussions here, and ... before I knew it, he used my login to add that post. And he had some strong views on it all, stronger than I had anticipated.

    And yes, he's actually an expatriate Russian. Aparently, he's lost a lot of faith in his own motherland. Which saddens me tremendously.
    Why not just claim it was a Russian spy that hijacked your computer?
    I find it hard to imagine the guy in question is a spy for Moscow. But of course, nothing is impossible in this day and age. And in such case, he actually did hijack my computer. While I was taking a piss.

    I'm guessing here (we haven't talked since, I kinda got mad at him), but he said something about "lies, lies, lies," so he may have responded negatively to Roman's pseudonews. Which I wouldn't blame him for.
    It was pretty silly of him, but I had to admit that by the tone it seemed very unlikely to be you posting it.

    Maybe you should do him a favor and create a new screen name for him to use? It's really not that hard to register a new name on here. I do that for friends sometimes. Not on here, but other places. I'll set up a new account with the information I have for them (just their name, not their address or anything like that), and then pick out a name and password that I think they'd be likely to agree with (they can always change it later.)

    Then I tell them about it, and they either use it or they don't. No harm if they don't. Not like the site doesn't already have a godzillion screen names in disuse already.
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  6. #1306  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post

    If It was not for USA interfering the Russians would have been stuck with the Ukraine like a millstone around their necks. Instead Russia will end up with a few pieces of territory that actually matter to them and succeed in dumping the bloodsucking vampire the Ukraine has always been onto Europe and America.
    I think Russia wins on this one and USA loses.
    Ukraine is the place where the Russian mob does stuff that they don't want to do on their home turf. If they lose Ukraine that will dramatically cut down their ability to operate effectively.

    For the USA the benefit of bringing Ukraine into our sphere of influence is joining two very big grain producers into one.

    For Russia, the downside is if they annex the Eastern part, they'll have to support it, and they'll be accountable to people they had previously been de-facto rulers of, but not had to be accountable to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jonio View Post
    Still waiting for an opinion Dan ....... about Crimea....
    The Americans should have kept their noses out of the politics in the Ukraine. They already had a sample of how Russia would react to threats on their borders when they tried getting Georgia to put missiles in place and to destroy the breakaway Republics South Ossetia and Abkhazia.If It was not for USA interfering the Russians would have been stuck with the Ukraine like a millstone around their necks. Instead Russia will end up with a few pieces of territory that actually matter to them and succeed in dumping the bloodsucking vampire the Ukraine has always been onto Europe and America.I think Russia wins on this one and USA loses.Unless of course USA is dumb enough to start WWIII over it and then either China or India wins.edit for those with short memories:2008 South Ossetia CrisisRusso-Georgian war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Bloodsucking vampire that's Ukraine? You mean the corrupt government Putin financed and backed that was ousted? You haven't got a clue have you? Just conspiracy nonsense worse than Romank. You don't support Russians , you support Putin.


    No Jonio, I mean the bloodsucking vampire nation the Ukraine has always been. The anchor number being floated in the media seems to be about $35 billion in aid over the next 2 years. USA has already given them a free $6 billion dollars. I am betting the totals will come in over $70 billion for the next 2 years.
    Of course I might be wrong about that estimate.
    The Ukraine might be able to suck the economies of Europe completely dry.

    You asked for my opinion.
    I gave it.
    Unfortunately you decided to accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist or an apologist for Putin instead of understanding what you got told.

    The only thing you came close to getting right is that I do not support the Russians.
    Last edited by dan hunter; April 14th, 2014 at 11:22 PM. Reason: spelling, spacing
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    Ok Dan...this is better than just saying all the wests media is corrupted and full of propaganda. I know how terrible Ukraine's corruption is. I have been there. You only have to look at their index. ( although yes the index could be corrupted aswell). One thing I do know from the Ukrainians I met and worked with ( both Russian speaking and Ukrainian ), that the last Putin backed government was the worst. This is the true reaon why normal folk want Ukraine to have closer ties with Europe. Whatever you think....in Czech, Slovakia, Poland and many other ex soviet zones the corruption has dropped . Its part of the deal for joining Europe. Those protests were hijacked by both Russia and the west, I agree and always have. The Russians though are run by crooks. Far worse to their own than they could be in Europe. As my friends from eastern Ukraine point out to me...they have no idea where alot of these pro Russian armed military are from. They believe Russia. Crimeas ten day referendum was enough for me. Without reading the media. Totally unfair and corrupt backed by armed men. Putin switched the gas off in Europe in 2006. He has bullied and terrorized Ukraine for years to bully it into its sphere of influence. His propaganda and his own lies are easy to prove by his actions. It is fine for pro Russians to take over buildings with machine guns but if protestors fight off sniper firing Berkut its a fascist plot. Yes the west is full of hippocracy, propaganda but I know by living in both worlds , Putins Russia is far darke, corrupted, dictaroral and suppressed than Europe. That is something you can't judge unless you visit both places.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEngelbrecht View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Next time, just say, "Sorry for my outburst. It was uncalled for" and move on. It's less embarrassing than stories about people hijacking your account and flying into a fit of rage.
    I'd prefer the embarassment. I may write a lot of stupid shit, but I don't want to be credited for what I actually don't.
    There was nothing stupid about what you wrote. Its was a responce to Romank and his photo of American coffins. I myself would not want to harm a hair on any Russians head. I am a fan of Russian artists, authors and scientists. Putin for me is anti Russian. He's just another prospect turned bad. Turned dictator. I would fight his regime til the end. As was said in a cheesy film last night....its better to die on your feet than on your knees. Putin cares nothing for his people only his own ego. His jailing of the opposition , his take over of the media shows how much he cares about Russia or russians.
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  11. #1311  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Honestly? This is your next post after banning Romank?

    Whether he meant to or not, he was doing a good job of regurgitating the disinformation that Putin is all but certainly feeding to Russian people in East Ukraine - which on its own is actually very helpful (regardless of the inability of some members to avoid responding emotionally.)
    It was meant to be humorous. So we should keep him around because he was good at being a troll? Should we keep a person around now who is simply trolling away, just because he represents a specific flavour of troll? Should we do that for each of the variety of flavours of troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    I miss Romank already. I don't speak Russian, so there's no way I'm going to be able to pour through a bunch of Russian media outlets to see what people in that part of the world are reading. .
    Use Google Translate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Honestly? This is your next post after banning Romank? Whether he meant to or not, he was doing a good job of regurgitating the disinformation that Putin is all but certainly feeding to Russian people in East Ukraine - which on its own is actually very helpful (regardless of the inability of some members to avoid responding emotionally.)
    It was meant to be humorous. So we should keep him around because he was good at being a troll? Should we keep a person around now who is simply trolling away, just because he represents a specific flavour of troll? Should we do that for each of the variety of flavours of troll?
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    I miss Romank already. I don't speak Russian, so there's no way I'm going to be able to pour through a bunch of Russian media outlets to see what people in that part of the world are reading. .
    Use Google Translate.
    I agree with Kojax. He does post ( and believe ) the press putins regime puts out. We may know its full of holes but millions of Russians don't . They believe it. It will be all part of history one day and its important for those who are interested to see the mindset of people like Romank. He is not humouring us. He is very passionate about Putin, about what he believes is the west wrongly condeming Russian actions. Romank as far as I could make out was only insulting his own intelligence.
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  13. #1313  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonio View Post
    I agree with Kojax. He does post ( and believe ) the press putins regime puts out. We may know its full of holes but millions of Russians don't . They believe it. It will be all part of history one day and its important for those who are interested to see the mindset of people like Romank. He is not humouring us. He is very passionate about Putin, about what he believes is the west wrongly condeming Russian actions. Romank as far as I could make out was only insulting his own intelligence.
    I don't dispute that he has bought into Putin's nonsense and is filled with pro-Russian fervour. I dispute that his presence here had any utility left.

    Like I said, if you want to make the case that he was showing us what someone like him believes, then the same rationale could be used to keep the variety of other people around with specific wayward ideas. RomanK might have represented this one kind of individual, but he had almost 500 posts where he gave good account of himself and his beliefs. In the end, the reasons to keep him around was outweighed grossly by his negative influences on this forum and it seems that the majority of people agree.
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    He was the only one apart from Dan who seems to have an argument in favour of Putin. Also he is Russian so his updates were sourced from daily media he himself would be hearing from the Russian side. Something ( unless you speak Russian ) we can't do. This keeps this debate filled with Russian veiwpints and propaganda that the Wests media may not pick up on. I respect your veiwpoint and that you feel you have the support of users of this thread but I think Romank was an important ( possibly brainwashed ) addition. All those that are left probably agree against Putins actions. That does give an opposition no matter how extreme it may seem.
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    I have no way of knowing what RomanK actually believed.
    For all I know he was just having a bit of fun yanking Jonio's chain.

    His posts used English language sources as well as Russian ones. In my opinion the only thing really noteworthy about his posts were how many images and articles he accessed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    I have no way of knowing what RomanK actually believed. For all I know he was just having a bit of fun yanking Jonio's chain.His posts used English language sources as well as Russian ones. In my opinion the only thing really noteworthy about his posts were how many images and articles he accessed.
    I think if you read back through the posts I was pulling his chain. If you read back through your posts you will find evidence of you supporting Romanks deluded and almost hilariously bad news reports. It seems from your posts you bought everything he said. When you realised that his posts were maybe not true you decided to distance yourself from being mocked by everyone who reads this thread. Now you play the innocent man on the fence...are you sure your not really a politican?
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    Jonio, you are posting like a troll and you just became the first person to go on my ignore list.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Jonio, you are posting like a troll and you just became the first person to go on my ignore list.
    I am privillaged. Your only posts were the wests propaganda is brainwashing all of us. Every newspaper article or report to you is just propaganda. Apart from Romanks who you never seemed to question. So to me you are the troll. An anti west troll. Its not objective when you have no opinion or point. Just simply that everything I read is the wests propaganda.

    You were playing devils advocate pointlessly to me. Just dismissing every source of news I got as propaganda was your only opinion. That's why I took you as a troll.
    Last edited by jonio; April 15th, 2014 at 07:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jonio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jonio View Post
    Still waiting for an opinion Dan ....... about Crimea....
    The Americans should have kept their noses out of the politics in the Ukraine. They already had a sample of how Russia would react to threats on their borders when they tried getting Georgia to put missiles in place and to destroy the breakaway Republics South Ossetia and Abkhazia.If It was not for USA interfering the Russians would have been stuck with the Ukraine like a millstone around their necks. Instead Russia will end up with a few pieces of territory that actually matter to them and succeed in dumping the bloodsucking vampire the Ukraine has always been onto Europe and America.I think Russia wins on this one and USA loses.Unless of course USA is dumb enough to start WWIII over it and then either China or India wins.edit for those with short memories:2008 South Ossetia CrisisRusso-Georgian war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Bloodsucking vampire that's Ukraine? You mean the corrupt government Putin financed and backed that was ousted? You haven't got a clue have you? Just conspiracy nonsense worse than Romank. You don't support Russians , you support Putin.
    No Jonio, I mean the bloodsucking vampire nation the Ukraine has always been. The anchor number being floated in the media seems to be about $35 billion in aid over the next 2 years. USA has already given them a free $6 billion dollars. I am betting the totals will come in over $70 billion for the next 2 years. Of course I might be wrong about that estimate.The Ukraine might be able to suck the economies of Europe completely dry.You asked for my opinion.I gave it.Unfortunately you decided to accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist or an apologist for Putin instead of understanding what you got told.The only thing you came close to getting right is that I do not support the Russians.
    Blodsucking Vampire that's Ukraine....another stupid post. The protests Euromaidan happened because people are sick of yankovych's corrupt Russian controlled government. The president was ousted in 2004 only to make a comeback with Putins money and backing in 2010. Where he started to change the law to cement his power, just like Putin. To join Europe's union , one of the major steps is to kerb corruption. All of the ex soviet nations that joined have seen a massive drop in corruption. They have seen their government tackle it to reach the requirments to join Europe. Your point once again doesn't add up. We will inherit bloodsucking Ukraine is just another conspiracy theory. Even Serbia ( Russia's close friend ) are moving towards intergration to Europe..not Russia. Putin backs the blood suckers into his sphere of influence and then protects the crooks all he can. Hence the Ukraine crisis. Your posts don't do Ukrainians any justice and blood sucking vampires shows a complete lack of sourced information and respect to normal Ukrainians that I can only think is Russian propaganda. Again your only point is not valid or thought out. Just devils advocate because you don't have a valid point.

    Look at Yankovych's life story. From convicted petty thief to president. He's Russian speaking and is/was learning to speak Ukrainian better. A complete.Putin puppet.
    Last edited by jonio; April 15th, 2014 at 09:37 PM.
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    City on the edge holds key to Ukraine future. Interesting Article. ( unless of course its an American propaganda plot ).
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    We were talking about whether or not RomanK was sitting in GRU's basement in Siberia, being a propaganda agent for Putin's government. Then Roman was finally banned for obvious reasons. And two days later, this site dies down for 12 hours all the way from its provider.

    Maybe it says more about me than Roman, but I can't help wondering if there's a connection?
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    Can visitors of this website see your I.p ?
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  24. #1324  
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    One of the administrators (forgot who) earlier in this thread wrote, that RomanK posted from a Russian IP, so the administrators can, I reckon.

    But, whatever, it doesn't mean that Roman was a GRU agent per se. He can be crazy and brainwashed all on his own, and I might be frickin' paranoid.
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    he posted earlier that I am an Indian man ( a statement not question ). I would not question it , other than I am in Nepal, I am sure it could look like im in India as I'm close to the border.its very close. It made me think how he could make such a judgement other than he was tracking my location or just a strange guess. He seemed like he was using our arguments to find or create Russian propaganda against it. I actually thought Dan Hunter was with him in the end. ( I realise I was wrong and Dan is not a troll just doesn't trust any media ). I thought Romank was media because of his photo. The tag around his neck ( although hard to make out ) looks media to me. He could be a fanatical Putin lover...I am sad he's been suspended.

    Back to Crimea..

    Honestly though from what I have learnt from my ex wife's family , friends , all who have lived through soviet times.

    Putins actions look text book. America maybe be jumping on the situation ( who knows ? ), but Putin is blatant. Even today he now admits there were Russian soldiers helping in Crimea..he had denied it before...I just hope Russians pick up on it.
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    Why not just let those people who want Russia for their leadership get a free ride into Russia where they will be happy. If they refuse then force them to leave because they do not enjoy the leadership in the Ukraine so they shouldn't be allowed to stay where they do no want to be. Just a thought.
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    Human migration doesn't work that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jonio View Post
    I agree with Kojax. He does post ( and believe ) the press putins regime puts out. We may know its full of holes but millions of Russians don't . They believe it. It will be all part of history one day and its important for those who are interested to see the mindset of people like Romank. He is not humouring us. He is very passionate about Putin, about what he believes is the west wrongly condeming Russian actions. Romank as far as I could make out was only insulting his own intelligence.
    I don't dispute that he has bought into Putin's nonsense and is filled with pro-Russian fervour. I dispute that his presence here had any utility left.

    Like I said, if you want to make the case that he was showing us what someone like him believes, then the same rationale could be used to keep the variety of other people around with specific wayward ideas. RomanK might have represented this one kind of individual, but he had almost 500 posts where he gave good account of himself and his beliefs. In the end, the reasons to keep him around was outweighed grossly by his negative influences on this forum and it seems that the majority of people agree.
    He was only really posting on this one thread, wasn't he?

    The thing about politics is that most of it is in the bullox media outlets tell people and which people tell each other. If all you want to study is world events, then you're not studying politics. Politics is people's perception of events, and their reaction to it. Not the reality of the events. The reality only matters insofar as the people perceive it accurately, and they rarely do.

    The truth that confronts us is that whether the Romank's of the world *should* determine what will happen, or not, they *will* determine it. Because they're taking hold of the tools.

    The most useful outcome of scientific inquiry is that which gives us a way to change our reality. We can't change our reality if every time it presents itself to us, we just bury our heads in the sand and ignore it. A disinformer like Romank seems like a waste of time if all you're looking at is his disinformation. But he himself is the phenomena. If he really is GRU, then you'll rarely get a better front row seat to watching political machinery in action.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEngelbrecht View Post
    Human migration doesn't work that way.
    Yeah. It's pretty uncommon to be able to move a large body of people to another country without depriving at least a few of them of property. And jobs are so hard to come by in that area of the world, that giving up a job to move would be a serious risk for them.

    However I had read somewhere that Putin had sort of ceremoniously started signing up ethnic Russians for Russian passports, and it would be kind of funny if they simply started using those to go to Russia and stay there, rather than try to have referendums.
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  30. #1330  
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    Wiki has an article on the continuing unrest. It seems Ukrainian armed forces have had to retake a few government buildings in the East. From the reports, it looks like the protests are being coordinated by Russian Mafia, because there are these dudes in really nice cars who drive up and talk to the protesters, who nobody will talk about. I don't know where to place mafia in the political spectrum.

    2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Sometimes the biggest mistake is assuming that somebody somewhere knows what is happening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Sometimes the biggest mistake is assuming that somebody somewhere knows what is happening.
    You know Dan....I am starting to understand your point....:-)
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    the ukraine is, or became, the neglected child of a divorced couple, being sweet-talked to then teared apart for personal gain. and yes the us threw down the first chocolate.

    thanks for screwing up.
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  34. #1334  
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    Things are hotting up in Ukraine........!!!
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  35. #1335  
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    Will Putin be forced by USA to accept Southern and Eastern Ukraine as part of Russian Federation in spite of his best efforts to avoid it?
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  36. #1336  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Will Putin be forced by USA to accept Southern and Eastern Ukraine as part of Russian Federation in spite of his best efforts to avoid it?
    It looks like it.
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  37. #1337  
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    Ethnic Russians: Pretext for Putin's Ukraine Invasion?

    National geographics reporting on it now:-)

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...527678726.html

    Also another viewpoint..from a London based journalist.
    Last edited by jonio; May 6th, 2014 at 12:37 PM.
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  38. #1338  
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    Interesting.

    BBC News -

    Joe Biden's son.....involved in Ukrainian gas/oil companies.....what a surprise :-)
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  39. #1339  
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    I don't find it very surprising. You will likely find a lot more dirty fingers are stuck in the same pie.
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