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Thread: Affirmative action and skin colour

  1. #501  
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    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Hiring someone based on their race is racist that is fact.
    Agreed. There is no question, for example, that affirmative action is racist. It is just racism in a good cause, to address the harm done by the US's official racism in the first part of the 20th century. Fortunately the need for such "reverse racism" is declining.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Hiring someone based on their race is racist that is fact.
    Agreed. There is no question, for example, that affirmative action is racist. It is just racism in a good cause, to address the harm done by the US's official racism in the first part of the 20th century. Fortunately the need for such "reverse racism" is declining.
    Myth 7:

    Myth 7: You can't cure discrimination with discrimination.

    The problem with this myth is that it uses the same word -- discrimination -- to describe two very different things. Job discrimination is grounded in prejudice and exclusion, whereas affirmative action is an effort to overcome prejudicial treatment through inclusion. The most effective way to cure society of exclusionary practices is to make special efforts at inclusion, which is exactly what affirmative action does. The logic of affirmative action is no different than the logic of treating a nutritional deficiency with vitamin supplements. For a healthy person, high doses of vitamin supplements may be unnecessary or even harmful, but for a person whose system is out of balance, supplements are an efficient way to restore the body's balance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    So let's review:

    Ten million children went to bed in the US tonight hungry.
    Tomorrow morning they'll go to school hungry.
    They'll act out and not learn much until after lunch when they've finally gotten something to eat.
    In a classroom with 40 other kids in the same boat because their school district doesn't get any money.
    ?? crank! this has nothing to do with the topic


    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Then they'll get to college and you'll dis them for not having as good scores and performance.
    how do they get to college without learning anything in the first place?


    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    So it's all "wasted on them because they're black."
    Who said it's wasted and who said they were black? the fact that yuo think their black makes you racist again. stop being racist

    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Boy, how fair and non-racist and stuff you are. Goody for you. How white of you.
    you're just racist pure and simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    After that we can talk about the houses that still have lead paint in them because you won't vote any taxes to pay for removing it.
    Why cause you think he's white? cause all hite people are like this. racist!
     

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    Grumpy, you are obviously far beyond rational argument.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I think that's my opinion of anti-affirmative action propagandists. "Education is too important to waste on black people because they're stupid because we starved them when they were kids and were too cheap to spend enough money on their education to keep up with their white peers."

    Attempting to get an education while black.

    So if I "take off my politically correct glasses," will black kids suddenly be 25 to a class, in rooms with no lead in the paint, getting taught age-appropriate curricula, and getting enough to eat so they can learn it? You're going to suddenly be OK with spending tax money feeding and educating them?

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
    This problem in education is nation wide not just limited to "black schools," you racist
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Y'all want to "change everything" without changing anything.

    It'll never work.
    you want to continue to be racist without thinking you are
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Myth 7: You can't cure discrimination with discrimination.
    I didn't claim it was discrimination. I claimed it was racist; the pre-judgment of someone based on their race.

    The logic of affirmative action is no different than the logic of treating a nutritional deficiency with vitamin supplements.
    People are not really like ascorbic acid, so the analogy really doesn't apply.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Myth 7: You can't cure discrimination with discrimination.
    I didn't claim it was discrimination. I claimed it was racist; the pre-judgment of someone based on their race.

    The logic of affirmative action is no different than the logic of treating a nutritional deficiency with vitamin supplements.
    People are not really like ascorbic acid, so the analogy really doesn't apply.
    Given, then, there is racist prejudice against women and minorities, and always will be, why should it be questionable to respond with anti-prejudice?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Oh and BTW I notice missy got a nice edumacation from LSU, who are a pretty prestigious university in and of themselves actually.

    Whereas none of the black people she would have displaced could have afforded it. They'd've all gone without.
    no black people can afford prestigious schools? how very not racist of you to say, and by not racist i mean completely racist

    If you want to talk about equity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    So basically what missy wants is to show all those darn black people should have had their parents pay just like hers had to.

    Oh, wait... they're poor. Gee, I guess missy forgot something.
    My parents didn't pay for my education. I did, but Oh wait I'm not black so my parents must've paid for my education! but they didn't cause my parents are poor , but wait they can't be poor cause theyre not black... I guess you're not being racist again schnieb
     

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    duplicate.
    Last edited by dan hunter; March 13th, 2014 at 09:25 PM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Cultural identification is the answer, its that simply. there will always be a portion of people who will not do anything but the majority will recognize it if it is beneficial to them. It will take some time but eventually it will take over.
    There is no answer. Bands of domesticated primates will always attack domesticated primates from other bands.
    If you keep saying there is no cure there will never be any, so are you saying we should keep it as is?
    I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

    Working on one's own racism is one thing. One should always strive to avoid it. But as long as smart black people keep getting denied jobs, there is prejudice. And as long as there is prejudice we need to keep affirmative action. Does that answer your question?
    No, it does not, affirmative action is not a cure and not serving the people who it supposed to serve well. If you agree it is not a cure then why do you want to keep it?
    There is no cure. The only choice is treat the symptoms or do nothing. Your assertion that it is not serving the people it's supposed to serve is Myth 2 from my link:

    Myth 2: Affirmative action has not succeeded in increasing female and minority representation.
    Several studies have documented important gains in racial and gender equality as a direct result of affirmative action (Bowen & Bok, 1998; Murrell & Jones, 1996). For example, according to a report from the U.S. Labor Department, affirmative action has helped 5 million minority members and 6 million White and minority women move up in the workforce ("Reverse Discrimination," 1995). Likewise, a study sponsored by the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs showed that between 1974 and 1980 federal contractors (who were required to adopt affirmative action goals) added Black and female officials and managers at twice the rate of noncontractors (Citizens' Commission, 1984). There have also been a number of well-publicized cases in which large companies (e.g., AT&T, IBM, Sears Roebuck) increased minority employment as a result of adopting affirmative action policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I think that's my opinion of anti-affirmative action propagandists. "Education is too important to waste on black people because they're stupid because we starved them when they were kids and were too cheap to spend enough money on their education to keep up with their white peers."

    Attempting to get an education while black.

    So if I "take off my politically correct glasses," will black kids suddenly be 25 to a class, in rooms with no lead in the paint, getting taught age-appropriate curricula, and getting enough to eat so they can learn it? You're going to suddenly be OK with spending tax money feeding and educating them?

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
    Affirmative action has not been able to stop what you say, if it did you would not have to take the stance you take and everybody would be equal. I think you are satisfied with affirmative action and think that is as far as it goes. You are not arguing to remove it and replace it with something more just and beneficial to all. White people should not think that it is for one side only, that brings resentments.
    What would you replace it with?

    And note Myth 2: affirmative action is not "ineffective." It works. Proven fact. Bowen and Bok 1998; Murrell and Jones, 1996; "Reverse Discrimination," US Department of Labor, 1995; US Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs, Citizens' Commission, 1984. In addition, large corporations are pushing colleges to get more minorities because they need more diversity. A number of such were even mentioned in the Economist article dan hunter posted above.

    I'm sorry I just don't buy any of these myths. There's too much research that says affirmative action works.
    Your stupid "Myths" are not scholarly journals
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Given, then, there is racist prejudice against women and minorities, and always will be, why should it be questionable to respond with anti-prejudice?
    The absolute magnitude of anti-prejudice is prejudice. In some cases it is warranted, as in the case of affirmative action in the 1970's. Nowadays it is less so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post

    If you mean the children of rich white parents, well then I have to ask: who's stereotyping now? Am I to assume there is not one white child in the entire country who's parents aren't rich? No white kids growing up in a trailer park?
    No no no no no no it's not racist when he does it. it's equality!!




    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Are we still failing to "address the inequality" of a white kid who's parents went to jail for meth, and then grows up in foster care? If that child, by some miracle, manages to graduate high school and go on to college, do we still need to unfairly select against them when they go to apply for a job, because their white skin still makes them "privileged" in your book?
    Doesn't fit his narrative please don't bring this up
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Given, then, there is racist prejudice against women and minorities, and always will be, why should it be questionable to respond with anti-prejudice?
    The absolute magnitude of anti-prejudice is prejudice. In some cases it is warranted, as in the case of affirmative action in the 1970's. Nowadays it is less so.
    Myth 3:

    Myth 3: Affirmative action may have been necessary 30 years ago, but the playing field is fairly level today.

    Despite the progress that has been made, the playing field is far from level. Women continue to earn 77 cents for every male dollar (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 2010). Black people continue to have twice the unemployment rate of White people, twice the rate of infant mortality, and just over half the proportion of people who attend four years or more of college (see Figure 1). In fact, without affirmative action the percentage of Black students at many selective schools would drop to only 2% of the student body (Bowen & Bok, 1998). This would effectively choke off Black access to top universities and severely restrict progress toward racial equality.
    You really need to have a look at that article.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Maybe because the story of the "privileged white man" is also a myth.
    You have a scholarly paper with statistics to prove this, of course.

    Oh, and particularly liked how you equated being the parent of a black kid with being a meth addict.

    Quick tip for folks: it's probably OK to compare a black woman with a couple kids to a white woman with a couple kids. Comparing her with a meth addict, or a gangbanger, or a welfare queen, is liable to land you in my outhouse.
    You have a scholarly paper to suggest that white people are privileged?
    The rest of your post is a straw man
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Myth 3: Affirmative action may have been necessary 30 years ago, but the playing field is fairly level today.
    You really need to read what I write and not just do a knee-jerk cut-and-paste. Once again I did not say the "the playing field is fairly level today."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I find it particularly amusing to be in favor of the corporations, who are usually accused of various sins, in insisting on racial diversity, and diversity of minds, because they have seen it works. And they are in competition for the ones who do that. Meanwhile the banksters try to steal all the corporates' money because they're afraid of the brown people and the corporates want more minorities. Unbelievable.

    People need to look around and realize that the corporations woke up before the politicians did.
    THis has nothing to do with anything. You really need to check your racism!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Maybe because the story of the "privileged white man" is also a myth.
    You have a scholarly paper with statistics to prove this, of course.

    Oh, and particularly liked how you equated being the parent of a black kid with being a meth addict.

    Quick tip for folks: it's probably OK to compare a black woman with a couple kids to a white woman with a couple kids. Comparing her with a meth addict, or a gangbanger, or a welfare queen, is liable to land you in my outhouse.
    So, in your opinion, is it more disadvantageous to be born into a meth addicted family, or into a black family? You seem to think it's the black family.
    No he's trying to make the connection that supposedly Kojax is equating being in a meth family is akin to being black. Not what was written. he continues to post that he's not that bright. not surprised he wouldn't understand.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    So, in your opinion, is it more disadvantageous to be born into a meth addicted family, or into a black family? You seem to think it's the black family.
    No, actually I anticipate being able to do more for the black people than the meth addicts. Being black isn't a disease. Of course, attitudes that is it somehow "wrong" to help the black family aren't particularly helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Sorry .
    We'll just cut if off there and say you should be. especially because a quote can never be taken out of context... can it...schnieb?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    So, in your opinion, is it more disadvantageous to be born into a meth addicted family, or into a black family? You seem to think it's the black family.
    No, actually I anticipate being able to do more for the black people than the meth addicts. Being black isn't a disease. Of course, attitudes that is it somehow "wrong" to help the black family aren't particularly helpful.
    You dodged the question.
    I did not. The question is biased and invalid. It compares "having children while black" with "having children while addicted to methamphetamine."
    Where's you stats showing the question biased an invalid. it only is to you because it exposes you as the racist you are.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I linked statistics and you ignored them, kojax. Sorry, no longer works. Link a paper with some and maybe I'll start listening again. So far all you have is opinions, which are not in accordance with the facts.
    Your problem. you don't listen at least you know
    Last edited by grmpysmrf; March 13th, 2014 at 09:54 PM.
     

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    grumpy this is a science site.

    Have someone let me know when you start posting science. Until then sorry but you're spitting in the wind.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Sorry it quotes US government and private studies that prove its assertions.
    No.
    It does not present any actual evidence or any actual study results to support its claims.
    Like I said, it is a propaganda page.
    You cannot possibly be serious. It names the studies it takes its data from. Do you need me to hunt them up and link them? They're pretty well known. Some of them are behind paywalls I hope you have access.

    Bowen and Bok 1998 is a particularly good study.

    So is the 2010 US Census. And it's not behind a paywall. You have no excuse for not knowing except deliberately ignoring the truth.
    So stats=individuals
    all white people are rich all black people are crack heads. wonderful precedent!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Myth 3: Affirmative action may have been necessary 30 years ago, but the playing field is fairly level today.
    You really need to read what I write and not just do a knee-jerk cut-and-paste. Once again I did not say the "the playing field is fairly level today."
    No you said we don't need affirmative action today because it's all better.

    Which is Myth 3. It's not all better, it's not gonna get all better, and you better get used to affirmative action because we're gonna need it forever. Get over it.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    So, in your opinion, is it more disadvantageous to be born into a meth addicted family, or into a black family? You seem to think it's the black family.
    No, actually I anticipate being able to do more for the black people than the meth addicts. Being black isn't a disease. Of course, attitudes that is it somehow "wrong" to help the black family aren't particularly helpful.
    You dodged the question.
    I did not. The question is biased and invalid. It compares "having children while black" with "having children while addicted to methamphetamine."
    You misunderstood, then. It compares two people, both from disadvantaged backgrounds and whether one deserves preferential treatment over the other.
    He doens't understand on purpose. apparently he didn't get a good lunch or breakfast at school. He has NO critical thinking skills it's his narrative or nothing.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    No you said we don't need affirmative action today because it's all better.
    No, I didn't. Again, you need to read my posts before you reply. It will make you look less foolish.

    Which is Myth 3. It's not all better, it's not gonna get all better, and you better get used to affirmative action because we're gonna need it forever. Get over it.
    It's already disappearing. You're losing. Deal with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    So, in your opinion, is it more disadvantageous to be born into a meth addicted family, or into a black family? You seem to think it's the black family.
    No, actually I anticipate being able to do more for the black people than the meth addicts. Being black isn't a disease. Of course, attitudes that is it somehow "wrong" to help the black family aren't particularly helpful.
    You dodged the question.
    I did not. The question is biased and invalid. It compares "having children while black" with "having children while addicted to methamphetamine."
    You misunderstood, then. It compares two people, both from disadvantaged backgrounds and whether one deserves preferential treatment over the other.
    But the plaintiff isn't disadvantaged. She's just not very good in school. Her parents have enough to send her to another school if she needs it. The multiple black students she'd've displaced would have gone nowhere.
    Stats? Scholarly link?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Of course that's less important than the parents' finances, which apparently actually stretched to it if they weren't too cheap to educate their daughter. <- sarcasm
    Stats? Scholarly link for your sarcasm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Your scenario doesn't exist.
    It completely exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Let me put this another way: if you insist on growing black people up stupid by denying their children food and proper education, we're going to kick your stupid little darlings out and make you pay more to send them to school someplace else where they're not screwing a black kid out of an education. Get it?
    So now black people are stupid?! BTW Stats? Scholarly link for this?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    No you said we don't need affirmative action today because it's all better.
    No, I didn't. Again, you need to read my posts before you reply. It will make you look less foolish.
    Sure you did. You just said so, got pwnt, and are trying to deny it.

    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Which is Myth 3. It's not all better, it's not gonna get all better, and you better get used to affirmative action because we're gonna need it forever. Get over it.
    It's already disappearing. You're losing. Deal with it.
    LOL, good luck. In ten years they'll be writing you teabaggers up in the history books.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    So, in your opinion, is it more disadvantageous to be born into a meth addicted family, or into a black family? You seem to think it's the black family.
    No, actually I anticipate being able to do more for the black people than the meth addicts. Being black isn't a disease. Of course, attitudes that is it somehow "wrong" to help the black family aren't particularly helpful.
    You dodged the question.
    I did not. The question is biased and invalid. It compares "having children while black" with "having children while addicted to methamphetamine."
    You misunderstood, then. It compares two people, both from disadvantaged backgrounds and whether one deserves preferential treatment over the other.
    But the plaintiff isn't disadvantaged. She's just not very good in school. Her parents have enough to send her to another school if she needs it. The multiple black students she'd've displaced would have gone nowhere.

    Of course that's less important than the parents' finances, which apparently actually stretched to it if they weren't too cheap to educate their daughter. <- sarcasm

    Your scenario doesn't exist.

    Let me put this another way: if you insist on growing black people up stupid by denying their children food and proper education, we're going to kick your stupid little darlings out and make you pay more to send them to school someplace else where they're not screwing a black kid out of an education. Get it?
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Sorry it quotes US government and private studies that prove its assertions.
    No.
    It does not present any actual evidence or any actual study results to support its claims.
    Like I said, it is a propaganda page.
    You cannot possibly be serious. It names the studies it takes its data from. Do you need me to hunt them up and link them? They're pretty well known. Some of them are behind paywalls I hope you have access.

    Bowen and Bok 1998 is a particularly good study.

    So is the 2010 US Census. And it's not behind a paywall. You have no excuse for not knowing except deliberately ignoring the truth.
    Baloney,
    Find the links and present them.
    The Shape of the River: William G. Bowen, Derek Bok, Glenn C. Loury: 9780691050195: Amazon.com: Books

    2010 Census

    Next?

    BTW, Pro Tip™: if you look at the bottom of the page I linked, it has all the references. You can look them up using that information. It's one of those science-y things it's obvious you're not familiar with.
    Not a scholarly journal. am opinion piece book with an agenda
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    LOL, good luck. In ten years they'll be writing you teabaggers up . . .
    I see you can't deal with it. C'est la vie.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    But the plaintiff isn't disadvantaged. She's just not very good in school. Her parents have enough to send her to another school if she needs it. The multiple black students she'd've displaced would have gone nowhere.

    Of course that's less important than the parents' finances, which apparently actually stretched to it if they weren't too cheap to educate their daughter. <- sarcasm

    Your scenario doesn't exist.

    Let me put this another way: if you insist on growing black people up stupid by denying their children food and proper education, we're going to kick your stupid little darlings out and make you pay more to send them to school someplace else where they're not screwing a black kid out of an education. Get it?
    No, I don't get it, because you have totally changed the subject. You're very good at that.
    Then be more specific about your subject.
    THe subject is blatant you are being intentionally obtuse.


    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I think you were referring to the court case and are now trying to distance yourself from it. I suggest you not bring things up if you don't have evidence to back them up.

    Sorry if you have no quote and no link I feel free to say anything I want. Next time present a link and a quote and then there won't be any question what you're talking about, assuming you pick your quote wisely. I'm not responsible for that either, and I will not accept BS. Sorry. I suggest you carefully scrutinize your references before presenting them to my withering critical scrutiny. Good luck.

    By the way I thought the subject was affirmative action. I'm still talking about that. Aren't you?
    Are you off your meds? seriously?
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticorncob28 View Post
    A black man strikes a white man in an altercation.
    PC glasses on - A minority is standing up and asserting his rights.
    A white man strikes a black man in an altercation.
    PC glasses on - A racist is committing a hate crime.
    Similar double standards also exist when it comes to violence between men and women.
    Nope not uh. only black and white. that's not nice of you to trick Scheib into liking your post.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    LOL, good luck. In ten years they'll be writing you teabaggers up . . .
    I see you can't deal with it. C'est la vie.
    I can see you have no evidence.

    Good luck with that on the science forum.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by anticorncob28 View Post
    A black man strikes a white man in an altercation.
    PC glasses on - A minority is standing up and asserting his rights.
    A white man strikes a black man in an altercation.
    PC glasses on - A racist is committing a hate crime.
    Similar double standards also exist when it comes to violence between men and women.
    Please. Please. Let's not go there.
    Well, that is part of what's inside the box they've opened. You can just as well talk about a black man hesitating to punch a white man who really deserves it in the nose.
    Awesome, you've set a great precedent, SO I should feel free to knock you out if I ever meet you cause you really really deserve it?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I can see you have no evidence.
    ===========
    For Immediate Release
    January 13, 2014

    Researchers Find Substantial Drop in Use of Affirmative Action
    in College Admissions
    WASHINGTON, D.C., January 13, 2014 ─ University of Washington researchers Grant H. Blume and Mark C. Long have produced the first empirical estimates using national-level data to show the extent to which levels of affirmative action in college admissions decisions changed during the period of 1992 to 2004. Blume and Long’s study, “Changes in Levels of Affirmative Action in College Admissions in Response to Statewide Bans and Judicial Rulings,” was recently published online in Educational Evaluation and Policy Analysis (EEPA), a peer-reviewed journal of the American Educational Research Association (AERA).
    VIDEO: Blume and Long discuss key findings from their study.
    The authors find a significant decline nationally in the level of affirmative action used by selective public colleges from 1992 to 2004. This decline is attributable to institutions in the eight states affected by statewide affirmative action bans or Circuit Court rulings during the period (Alabama, California, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, and Washington).
    =======================

    Good luck in dealing with it.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Bowen and Bok 1998 is a particularly good study.

    So is the 2010 US Census. And it's not behind a paywall. You have no excuse for not knowing except deliberately ignoring the truth.
    Baloney,
    Find the links and present them.
    The Shape of the River: William G. Bowen, Derek Bok, Glenn C. Loury: 9780691050195: Amazon.com: Books

    2010 Census

    Next?

    BTW, Pro Tip™: if you look at the bottom of the page I linked, it has all the references. You can look them up using that information. It's one of those science-y things it's obvious you're not familiar with.[/QUOTE]

    The shape of The River is a book they wrote, Not a study. The claims they made in it have been pretty much discredited by by Christopher Jencks, the Malcolm Wiener Professor of Social Policy at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, and Meredith Phillips, an assistant professor of policy studies at the University of California, Los Angeles.
    So you failed to present a scientific study on that one. Apparently understanding the difference between a study and a novel is one of those sciency things you don't understand.

    The 2010 census report just shows very clearly that Affirmative action is a failed policy.
    If it had done anything it should have shown up in the census report.
    Instead the census report only shows that companies forced to match quotas to win contracts from the government did their hiring based on race instead of merit.

    So you fail again.[/QUOTE]
    Not uh, cause you know black and white and racism and stuff! BUT BUT BUT it supports his opinion!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    The shape of The River is a book they wrote, Not a study. The claims they made in it have been pretty much discredited by by Christopher Jencks, the Malcolm Wiener Professor of Social Policy at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, and Meredith Phillips, an assistant professor of policy studies at the University of California, Los Angeles.
    So you failed to present a scientific study on that one. Apparently understanding the difference between a study and a novel is one of those sciency things you don't understand.
    So you'll have links to the articles in which that was done, right?

    LOL, "novel?" Bwahahahahahahaha you idiot it's a textbook published by Princeton Press

    AhhhhhhhBWAHAhahahahahahahaha
    Some schools use novels as "text books" ya racist!
    talk about LOL!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Good luck in dealing with it.
    Noted you have no further evidence. And arrogantly think you need none.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    grumpy, you have soiled yourself. Wipe yourself. Take a shower (not a bath, you'll get it on you again).
    Oh nothing but insults now!
    You have scholarly links for that bit of truth?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I'm sorry I see little point in discussing social science with people who don't know what a Scientific Journal of Record is.
    Maybe if you would post one, that would be a starting point, you racist!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by anticorncob28 View Post
    Please. Please. Let's not go there.
    If an argument would've started from that, I was planning on either telling them to send me a private message, or start a new thread.
    Don't worry, it's all under control.
    Your shot was far too direct for them to even try. No one but an idiot would respond and expect to get laid this week.
    OMG you reproduce? Terrifying!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Noted you have no further evidence.
    =========
    Researching The Decline of Affirmative Action
    Inside Higher Education – June 7, 2005
    By Scott Jaschik
    Starting around 1995, the percentage of colleges that considered students’ minority status in admissions decisions fell dramatically — so dramatically that it appears to have gone beyond those states where court rulings or constitutional amendments barred the use of racial preferences.
    That finding comes from research being prepared for publication by two sociologists at the University of California at Davis. Eric Grodsky, an assistant professor there, and Demetra Kalogrides, a graduate student, were able to document the shifts by obtaining results from the College Board of a survey it does annually on college admissions practices.

    ========

    Sorry to give you nothing but bad news. Good luck with your issues.
     

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    Schneib, I have gone back to read your comments and I would like to show you what I have picked up along the way. I am hoping you will be able to understand what I am saying and not take it too personal.

    First, I do not think you are for black people as you try to make most of the members believe. I think you are the type of person that are bent on keeping things as they are. You do not see things in a way that is showing that something is wrong, you are not able to point to a way out that would be at least appear more general for people s of all colors. You draw specific lines of segregation, you dictate that it cannot be changed even in the knowledge that it is not good for humans at large, because it divides them. I am sorry you are hiding behind such a serious issue and have no chance of changing your views. Black people are African people, you yourself do not give them legitimacy, you title them black as do most white people.
    I challenge you to come with a solution to dismantle those laws and replace it with an equitable solution for all, black, white and all the in between s, or your attempt to convince the members you are this benevolent un-self centered person, will be view as talk. Please do not scream at me if you find this not flattering, but I had to look closely at what you were saying to respond to you, and this is what I came up with.
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    Your propaganda almost convinced everyone there's no global warming too, but that doesn't make it true and now they're finding it out.

    The truth will out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grmpysmrf View Post
    Hiring someone based on their race is racist that is fact.
    Agreed. There is no question, for example, that affirmative action is racist. It is just racism in a good cause, to address the harm done by the US's official racism in the first part of the 20th century. Fortunately the need for such "reverse racism" is declining.
    Myth 7:

    Myth 7: You can't cure discrimination with discrimination.

    The problem with this myth is that it uses the same word -- discrimination -- to describe two very different things. Job discrimination is grounded in prejudice and exclusion, whereas affirmative action is an effort to overcome prejudicial treatment through inclusion. The most effective way to cure society of exclusionary practices is to make special efforts at inclusion, which is exactly what affirmative action does. The logic of affirmative action is no different than the logic of treating a nutritional deficiency with vitamin supplements. For a healthy person, high doses of vitamin supplements may be unnecessary or even harmful, but for a person whose system is out of balance, supplements are an efficient way to restore the body's balance.
    Not a scholarly article!
    Please post something science-y
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Noted you have no further evidence.
    =========
    Researching The Decline of Affirmative Action
    Inside Higher Education – June 7, 2005
    By Scott Jaschik
    Starting around 1995, the percentage of colleges that considered students’ minority status in admissions decisions fell dramatically — so dramatically that it appears to have gone beyond those states where court rulings or constitutional amendments barred the use of racial preferences.
    That finding comes from research being prepared for publication by two sociologists at the University of California at Davis. Eric Grodsky, an assistant professor there, and Demetra Kalogrides, a graduate student, were able to document the shifts by obtaining results from the College Board of a survey it does annually on college admissions practices.

    ========

    Sorry to give you nothing but bad news. Good luck with your issues.
    Every one of these is merely based upon what your propaganda has managed to cause.

    Minorities will be treated more fairly after you die.
     

  47. #547  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Your propaganda almost convinced everyone there's no global warming too, but that doesn't make it true and now they're finding it out.
    Actually I think there is global warming going on.

    The truth will out.
    Yes, it will. I hope you are not too crushed by it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Grumpy, you are obviously far beyond rational argument.
    Well I guess you would know since you are completely irrational. it would seem to follow that you can smell your own.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Myth 7: You can't cure discrimination with discrimination.
    I didn't claim it was discrimination. I claimed it was racist; the pre-judgment of someone based on their race.

    The logic of affirmative action is no different than the logic of treating a nutritional deficiency with vitamin supplements.
    People are not really like ascorbic acid, so the analogy really doesn't apply.
    Given, then, there is racist prejudice against women and minorities, and always will be, why should it be questionable to respond with anti-prejudice?
    affirmative action is not ANTI PREJUDICE. it's just prejudice
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    Sorry, I'm not going to back down. I still have not seen any evidence that shows that affirmative action was ineffective, or undesirable. I see a lot of evidence it made a lot of white peoples' anuses pucker. I am not particularly concerned about that. I note that the majority voted down affirmative action. This seems pretty transparent to me.

    I really don't give a shit what you think. The statistics show what worked, and the corporations know what worked. And y'all insist on ignoring reality.

    You can do that but don't pretend it's anything like scientific when all you have is a bunch of legalistic bullshit with no science.

    Your a bunch of white monkeys who are prejudiced against the black monkeys and don't have the balls to admit it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Given, then, there is racist prejudice against women and minorities, and always will be, why should it be questionable to respond with anti-prejudice?
    The absolute magnitude of anti-prejudice is prejudice. In some cases it is warranted, as in the case of affirmative action in the 1970's. Nowadays it is less so.
    Myth 3:

    Myth 3: Affirmative action may have been necessary 30 years ago, but the playing field is fairly level today.

    Despite the progress that has been made, the playing field is far from level. Women continue to earn 77 cents for every male dollar (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 2010). Black people continue to have twice the unemployment rate of White people, twice the rate of infant mortality, and just over half the proportion of people who attend four years or more of college (see Figure 1). In fact, without affirmative action the percentage of Black students at many selective schools would drop to only 2% of the student body (Bowen & Bok, 1998). This would effectively choke off Black access to top universities and severely restrict progress toward racial equality.
    You really need to have a look at that article.
    Your stupid myths are not scholarly links
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    grumpy this is a science site.

    Have someone let me know when you start posting science. Until then sorry but you're spitting in the wind.
    Perhaps you should start posting something science worthy
     

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    I await a single scholarly article.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    LOL, good luck. In ten years they'll be writing you teabaggers up . . .
    I see you can't deal with it. C'est la vie.
    I can see you have no evidence.

    Good luck with that on the science forum.
    YOu have no evidence. no have no decent points. all you have is racism and prejudice
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    Say, BTW there billvon, I noticed your report said "this is happening," not "this is right."

    Is that your last word?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Your propaganda almost convinced everyone there's no global warming too, but that doesn't make it true and now they're finding it out.

    The truth will out.
    No sequitor
    I really think the schnieb is the best troll ever!
    He comes from the Christian young earth board. great performance Schnieb Bravo!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Sorry, I'm not going to back down.
    Then I hope you are not too crushed by the gradual end of affirmative action. So far it looks like you're not taking it well.
    I really don't give a shit what you think.
    Ah, but you do care very much. If you didn't you wouldn't be so angry and defensive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Noted you have no further evidence.
    =========
    Researching The Decline of Affirmative Action
    Inside Higher Education – June 7, 2005
    By Scott Jaschik
    Starting around 1995, the percentage of colleges that considered students’ minority status in admissions decisions fell dramatically — so dramatically that it appears to have gone beyond those states where court rulings or constitutional amendments barred the use of racial preferences.
    That finding comes from research being prepared for publication by two sociologists at the University of California at Davis. Eric Grodsky, an assistant professor there, and Demetra Kalogrides, a graduate student, were able to document the shifts by obtaining results from the College Board of a survey it does annually on college admissions practices.

    ========

    Sorry to give you nothing but bad news. Good luck with your issues.
    Every one of these is merely based upon what your propaganda has managed to cause.

    Minorities will be treated more fairly after you die.
    Scholarly link?
     

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    So, you got any reports that say it's right? As opposed to "this is what the assholes are doing to us?" Because that last paper looked like the second, not the first. It looks more like they're calling you names for destroying affirmative action to me. It certainly is reporting some pretty serious racism.

    You've been screwing up the economy deliberately to lynch the black President for six years, too. If I were you I wouldn't be bragging about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Sorry, I'm not going to back down. I still have not seen any evidence that shows that affirmative action was ineffective, or undesirable. I see a lot of evidence it made a lot of white peoples' anuses pucker. I am not particularly concerned about that. I note that the majority voted down affirmative action. This seems pretty transparent to me.

    I really don't give a shit what you think. The statistics show what worked, and the corporations know what worked. And y'all insist on ignoring reality.

    You can do that but don't pretend it's anything like scientific when all you have is a bunch of legalistic bullshit with no science.

    Your a bunch of white monkeys who are prejudiced against the black monkeys and don't have the balls to admit it.
    WOW not racist at all are you!
    Of course your not going to back down cause you haven't seen any evidence. kinda hard to see when all of your senses are closed off
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I await a single scholarly article.
    they've been given. perhaps you could give us some though
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    So, you got any reports that say it's right? As opposed to "this is what the assholes are doing to us?" Because that last paper looked like the second, not the first. It looks more like they're calling you names for destroying affirmative action to me. It certainly is reporting some pretty serious racism.

    You've been screwing up the economy deliberately to lynch the black President for six years, too. If I were you I wouldn't be bragging about it.
    only insults now? you must be all tuckered out little fella! time for a nap for you!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    You've been screwing up the economy deliberately to lynch the black President for six years, too. If I were you I wouldn't be bragging about it.
    I voted for Obama.

    I think you are one of those people who thinks that anyone who doesn't agree with them 100% is their mortal enemy. Unfortunately quite prevalent on the Internet. Good luck with your anger issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I await a single scholarly article.
    Maybe you should try finding one because you have not posted any yet.
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    Sorry, then you're an emoprog, billvon.

    Affirmative action will be necessary until prejudice is gone.

    And I'm sorry but I don't believe you voted for Obama if you are against affirmative action. Sorry, it's obviously not true.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I await a single scholarly article.
    Maybe you should try finding one because you have not posted any yet.
    Just repeating your untruth won't make it truer. The article I linked links textbooks, scholarly papers, and government reports.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Sorry, then you're an emoprog, billvon.

    Affirmative action will be necessary until prejudice is gone.
    But it will never be gone cause it's not a cure is it mr scientist?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I await a single scholarly article.
    Maybe you should try finding one because you have not posted any yet.
    Just repeating your untruth won't make it truer.
    Then stop doing it
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    And I'm sorry but I don't believe you voted for Obama if you are against affirmative action. Sorry, it's obviously not true.
    that's because your a racist prejudiced loser that lets his emotions guide him
     

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    Say "hi" to Darryl the Car Thief and Traitor for me billvon.
     

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    He's just a run of the mill troll
    google his name

    1. Talk-Polywell.org View topic - Please Ban Schneibster

    2. [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039)]www.talk-polywell.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5034‎



      [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039)]Nov 12, 2013 - 11 posts - ‎7 authors[/COLOR]
      From his first posts in this forum, Schneibster was deliberately offensive to everyone here. he is deliberately offensive in his sig, where he writes ...[/COLOR]
    3. Schneibster is going off the deep end - TalkRational

      [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039)]talkrational.org Town Hall The Soap Opera



      [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039)]Jan 4, 2010 - 25 posts - ‎9 authors[/COLOR]
      At the very least, him using "Newark" in his guess suggests he is looking over my IP addresses (I was posting from the Newark area two weeks ...Proposal: Rename "Schneibster's Appeal Thread" to ...
      8 posts
      Feb 4, 2014

      Peanut Gallery: Member Discussion: Schneibster ...
      25 posts
      Jan 10, 2014

      Recall Schneibster - TalkRational
      25 posts
      Jan 6, 2014

      MAKE TH EPRIVATE SCHNEIBSTER DISCUSSION ...
      13 posts
      Jan 3, 201


      [/COLOR]
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  72. #572  
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    Now that I know he's just a common troll he's on the ignore list.
     

  73. #573  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
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    I was struggling with the temptation to suggest you google him.
    You should read his blog. It is quite illuminating.
    I have seldom seen such delusions of grandeur and paranoia displayed so openly.
     

  74. #574  
    not ADM!N grmpysmrf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    I was struggling with the temptation to suggest you google him.
    You should read his blog. It is quite illuminating.
    I have seldom seen such delusions of grandeur and paranoia displayed so openly.
    I've had enough, I don't need anymore . I'll take your word for it though, especialy based on what I've seen here.
    dan hunter likes this.
     

  75. #575  
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    Wow, dan, your effort to try to avoid actually providing evidence that holds water on the science forum has failed miserably. Everyone knows, who matters. Enjoy your fanboiz.
     

  76. #576  
    Time Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I linked statistics and you ignored them, kojax. Sorry, no longer works. Link a paper with some and maybe I'll start listening again. So far all you have is opinions, which are not in accordance with the facts.
    I agree that your statistics are valid. I don't disagree with your evidence (so....it would be kind of pointless to try and refute something I don't disagree with.)

    I disagree with the conclusions you are drawing from that evidence.


    I'm not going to try and argue that black people don't statistically have less money than white people. I stipulate that they do. My argument is that it doesn't matter, because it's a statistical condition, not a person-specific condition. No matter how strong the statistical correlation between black skin and poverty is, the fact remains that not every black person you will ever meet is poor, so it's asinine to assume they are.
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    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
     

  77. #577  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    I linked statistics and you ignored them, kojax. Sorry, no longer works. Link a paper with some and maybe I'll start listening again. So far all you have is opinions, which are not in accordance with the facts.
    I agree that your statistics are valid. I don't disagree with your evidence (so....it would be kind of pointless to try and refute something I don't disagree with.)

    I disagree with the conclusions you are drawing from that evidence.


    I'm not going to try and argue that black people don't statistically have less money than white people. I stipulate that they do. My argument is that it doesn't matter, because it's a statistical condition, not a person-specific condition. No matter how strong the statistical correlation between black skin and poverty is, the fact remains that not every black person you will ever meet is poor, so it's asinine to assume they are.
    Somehow we have to break their low wage suffering. Higher education is a good effort; but when we start spending money on the children to get them fed and properly educated in grade school, I might get a bit less aggressive about this.

    Anybody who blames "the corporations" for this is a nutjob. They're screaming for diversity. It's the buttwipe racist conservatives that are the problem. They were too stupid to learn anything and they hated school so they vote against money for it. The stupids voting against the smarts.
     

  78. #578  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
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    Schneibster, you are a poor delusional wreck. You are only a legend in your own mind.
    You get banned from forums for being a jerk and then you make up some weird story about how everybody on the forums that banned you conspired against you.
    Take a look at yourself and consider getting yourself some help because you obviously have mental health issues.

    You want to start a personal attack, go right ahead.
    As far as I am concerned you are nothing but a few lines of print on my monitor and you mean less than nothing to me.
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  79. #579  
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    dan, you are a Libertardian maniac who hates racial equality.

    Sorry but that's all I see.

    As far as being banned from other forums it was by Libertardians like you who didn't have the balls to face my evidence.

    And of course, this is a standard ratfxxking, complete with accusing me of personal attacks while making one.

    You guys are totally predicktable.
     

  80. #580  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Moderator Action: OK, this has gone far enough. All of you behave yourselves. This is science forum, not a drunken party.

    Thread closed pending review by staff.
    KALSTER likes this.
     

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