Notices
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: The Political Wing of the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea"

  1. #1 The Political Wing of the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" 
    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dublin, Republic of Ireland
    Posts
    145
    A proposition on modernizing political wings to encompass political systems that would otherwise be left uncategorized.

    As an example I will put forward the situation of the DPRK:

    It cannot be classified as left wing as:
    1. It does not represent the plight of the workers of the country.
    2. It serves only to enrich the lives of the party officials and well off population of Pyongyang (In comparison with the remainder of the country)
    3. It does not practice efficient means for the workers to become better off
    4. It oppresses the workers
    It cannot be classified as center wing because:
    1. It does not practice real democracy
    2. It does not allow freedom of expression, or any freedom for that manner
    3. Capitalism is virtually non-existent
    It cannot practically be classified by right wing because:
    1. It does not support wealth except in one man, Kim Jong-Un, previously by Kim Jong-il and before that Kim Il-Sung. All others are oppressed into obedience and poverty, where as normally a Right Wing Government will have wealthy supporters.
    2. It does not in practice consider its people as a master race or a great people, but rather imprisons and destroys them regardless of their background.
    3. It does not retain an effective industry or agriculture, but has rather destroyed these.
    Due to these reasons, I believe the system of classifying governments on wings is outdated and flawed in that it represents literally only a one dimensional view of governments, and should be updated to become more alike to a cartesian plane of the following form:

    Think of an eagle, commonly used throughout history to represent government and power. The wings still represent left and right wing, but this is expanded to include the head and claws. Being an oppressive state which cannot in reality be categorized as either center wing, right wing or left wing, The DPRK should be included in the claws section, along with such states that do not follow regular ideologies to an extreme.


    The heads section would be reserved for a "Utopian" state, which in its own practice results in social freedom, equality and an absence of ineffective government, or even the abscence of government, direct control by the people. This is albeit a very difficult government to obtain, I of course must understate how difficult it is. No current government can consider itself as such until it virtually removes all negative elements in society (crime, poverty, corruption, greed, oppression, racism etc)

    In replies please reasonable, and I hope you take into consideration this idea.



    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

    Favourite Elements: Sodium, Neodymium, Xenon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Senior
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    309
    Your "wings" classifications seem as though they were mostly written by someone on the left that wanted to demonize the right.
    By those definitions, the political parties in the US don't fit either.

    My own view of how to make this "utopia" is listed in my "libertarian constitution" topics.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,222
    I think you'd be far better off analysing government systems and approaches in terms of authoritarianism, the exercise of power and the various forms of restricting or granting participatory/ democratic rights and personal freedoms.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dublin, Republic of Ireland
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I think you'd be far better off analysing government systems and approaches in terms of authoritarianism, the exercise of power and the various forms of restricting or granting participatory/ democratic rights and personal freedoms.
    Well, that is exactly what the claws, head approach fits. Closer to the head is more stable and a better area to be situated in terms of quality of government. The quality of government is reflected in the quality of life of the citizens.

    The Claws represent a generally militaristic warlike state which has a very low quality government, also a very low quality of life. These are similar to the government of the DPRK.

    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

    Favourite Elements: Sodium, Neodymium, Xenon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dublin, Republic of Ireland
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by TheUnknowable View Post
    Your "wings" classifications seem as though they were mostly written by someone on the left that wanted to demonize the right.
    By those definitions, the political parties in the US don't fit either.

    My own view of how to make this "utopia" is listed in my "libertarian constitution" topics.
    Sorry for my bias. I was thinking of Extreme-Rightist Fascism at the time of Original post. Let me re-write that section:

    It cannot practically be classified by right wing because:
    1. It does not value conservative ideas.
    2. It does not value traditionalism in its governmental style, being a very unique and unorthodox state.
    3. As it is not a religious state, some conservative theorists would not consider it as such
    4. There is no heirarchy on a variety of levels, only Kim Jong-un and oppressed.
    5. It does not in practice care for industrial or agricultural power. The countryside of the DPRK is evidence of this agricultural void.
    Anyway, because I was speaking of the DPRK I was using Extreme-Leftist ideology and Extreme-Rightist Ideology, Communism and Fascism. But I hoped this helps.
    Last edited by Devon Keogh; October 22nd, 2013 at 03:26 PM.

    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

    Favourite Elements: Sodium, Neodymium, Xenon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dublin, Republic of Ireland
    Posts
    145
    Here is a rough estimation of positions of some select countries on my model:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/cu867u0mfn...a-12540543.jpg

    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

    Favourite Elements: Sodium, Neodymium, Xenon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    ox
    ox is offline
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,649
    Do you have a definition for what is political freedom?
    In the days of Mao the residents of Hong Kong and Macao would taunt their communist neighbours at border crossings with cries of 'We are free and you are not'. The Chinese were no doubt thinking the same.
    The same was happening in Eastern Europe. I was once startled to see large posters of 'Freedom for Chile' when travelling by train in East Germany on the way to Berlin while sympathising at their lack of freedom.
    Why should we think that we are free just because we live in west? I get caught on a hundred cameras every time I go into the town centre. I am effectively not free to criticize a person's religion. The British police and army have certainly engaged in torture in my lifetime.
    I am not even free on this forum, having had posts sent to trash presumably because I have offended someone's sensitivity, even though it was never my intention to do so.
    Freedom can only be a state of mind and never a reality. I'll wager that many in the DPRK genuinely believe themselves to be free while believing that those in the west who embrace capitalism are not.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dublin, Republic of Ireland
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Do you have a definition for what is political freedom?
    In the days of Mao the residents of Hong Kong and Macao would taunt their communist neighbours at border crossings with cries of 'We are free and you are not'. The Chinese were no doubt thinking the same.
    The same was happening in Eastern Europe. I was once startled to see large posters of 'Freedom for Chile' when travelling by train in East Germany on the way to Berlin while sympathising at their lack of freedom.
    Why should we think that we are free just because we live in west? I get caught on a hundred cameras every time I go into the town centre. I am effectively not free to criticize a person's religion. The British police and army have certainly engaged in torture in my lifetime.
    I am not even free on this forum, having had posts sent to trash presumably because I have offended someone's sensitivity, even though it was never my intention to do so.
    Freedom can only be a state of mind and never a reality. I'll wager that many in the DPRK genuinely believe themselves to be free while believing that those in the west who embrace capitalism are not.
    Well, the meer belief in freedom should not be considered in any form freedom. Living a lie is living a lie, belief does not change that.

    At least Western Governments do not practice mass genocide and extermination. Do you live in fear of going outside and criticizing your head of state, then being arrested and imprisoned with your family for three generations? I thought not.

    The East German Government controlled the most thorough and widespread Secret Police service in the history of the planet, the Stasi (Ministry for State Security). Under Erich Mielke the Stasi became more than just obvious and brutal killers, they had infiltrated every aspect of daily life as to be able to know everything that people did at anytime. Even the slightest stray from their bounds and they were arrested, tortured and sent to prisons such as Berlin-Hohenschönhausen for considerably long periods of time. I even watched a documentary about a girl who drew a smiling face on a portrait of Stalin just after the fall of Hitler. She was imprisoned in Auschwitz-Birkenau type conditions for ten years. That is what I call absence of freedom.

    At least the modern European governments do not act so extremely. Would you fear for your life and the lives of three generations of your close family if you walked out of your house in the morning and told a friend walking down the street that you disliked a major French, German, Spanish, American or British politician? I thought not. This is the kind of situation in the DPRK.
    Last edited by Devon Keogh; October 24th, 2013 at 03:33 PM.

    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

    Favourite Elements: Sodium, Neodymium, Xenon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Senior
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    309
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Do you have a definition for what is political freedom?
    In the days of Mao the residents of Hong Kong and Macao would taunt their communist neighbours at border crossings with cries of 'We are free and you are not'. The Chinese were no doubt thinking the same.
    The same was happening in Eastern Europe. I was once startled to see large posters of 'Freedom for Chile' when travelling by train in East Germany on the way to Berlin while sympathising at their lack of freedom.
    Why should we think that we are free just because we live in west? I get caught on a hundred cameras every time I go into the town centre. I am effectively not free to criticize a person's religion. The British police and army have certainly engaged in torture in my lifetime.
    I am not even free on this forum, having had posts sent to trash presumably because I have offended someone's sensitivity, even though it was never my intention to do so.
    Freedom can only be a state of mind and never a reality. I'll wager that many in the DPRK genuinely believe themselves to be free while believing that those in the west who embrace capitalism are not.
    True freedom would be total self-determination, though anytime you interacted with another person your two freedoms would conflict, and freedom would be measured
    relative to whose self-determination was hurt more.
    Each side believed they were more free than the other because they each thought the few freedoms they had were more important.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Sophomore Estheria Quintessimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    153
    While it is true the definition of the DPRK does not really classify under the name it has given its own state... their is already a classification that works perfectly:
    - Dictatorship.

    I must say that I think the role of its leader, Kim Jong-Un is overrated. He is just one man. When he took over a while ago, it was clear he made some visible statements to show his power,... but for who was he doing that?
    Surely not for the West,... Kim Jong-Un had a western education, having went to school in the UK (I think it was), so he is well aware of how the western and other countries, see the DPRK.

    I believe he did gave this show of power, for the powerhouse within North Korea itself, showing them he would be a cabable dictator. So what is the powerhouse within North Korea?
    - The military top.

    A Dictator can only rule, if he has the full grace of the military top behind him. A dictatorship is basically nothing more then an ultimate top-down governement. And the military top,... is well... at the very top of the pyramid.

    If he had been shown incapable of ruling North Korea,... the military regime will have two options:
    - Keep him as a puppet.
    - Remove him and put a new Supreme Leader forward to lead DPRK into a new era.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dublin, Republic of Ireland
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by Estheria Quintessimo View Post
    While it is true the definition of the DPRK does not really classify under the name it has given its own state... their is already a classification that works perfectly:
    - Dictatorship.

    I must say that I think the role of its leader, Kim Jong-Un is overrated. He is just one man. When he took over a while ago, it was clear he made some visible statements to show his power,... but for who was he doing that?
    Surely not for the West,... Kim Jong-Un had a western education, having went to school in the UK (I think it was), so he is well aware of how the western and other countries, see the DPRK.

    I believe he did gave this show of power, for the powerhouse within North Korea itself, showing them he would be a cabable dictator. So what is the powerhouse within North Korea?
    - The military top.

    A Dictator can only rule, if he has the full grace of the military top behind him. A dictatorship is basically nothing more then an ultimate top-down governement. And the military top,... is well... at the very top of the pyramid.

    If he had been shown incapable of ruling North Korea,... the military regime will have two options:
    - Keep him as a puppet.
    - Remove him and put a new Supreme Leader forward to lead DPRK into a new era.
    Word classifications work for any country, but the aim of this article is that they should be translated into the Wings system.

    They are not as powerful as you might think. The whole North Korean government system is based around absolute belief in the Leader as a God, or at least as a descendant of a God. There is common belief in North Korea that Kim Il-Sung created the universe, and North Korea as a utopia of humanity. For this reason I would say that they would not dare to question the Leader directly, only prompt him into making decisions.

    There have been unconfirmed reports of an armed political conflict in Pyongyang though, showing some instability in the government. This is certainly not the kind of thing seen in the previous governments of Kim Il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il.

    Kim Jong-Un was educated in Switzerland.
    Last edited by Devon Keogh; October 25th, 2013 at 11:38 AM.

    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

    Favourite Elements: Sodium, Neodymium, Xenon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    ox
    ox is offline
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,649
    Quote Originally Posted by Devon Keogh View Post
    At least the modern European governments do not act so extremely. Would you fear for your life and the lives of three generations of your close family if you walked out of your house in the morning and told a friend walking down the street that you disliked a major French, German, Spanish, American or British politician? I thought not. This is the kind of situation in the DPRK.
    I'm just wondering if you've been listening to the news lately. Heads of state in Europe having their phones tapped by America, including the German Chancellor. What's the difference? Everybody is transparent these days.
    Orwell got it more right than wrong when he wrote 1984 in his lonely cottage on the windswept Isle of Jura. It was the greatest piece of prophesy ever. If he could see the world now he might comment 'yes I got that right, and that, didn't I'.
    About an hour from me is GCHQ, the centre for British intelligence. They tap into people's conversations all over the world.
    The West is far less free than it used to be and in its own way it is catching up with the DPRK.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dublin, Republic of Ireland
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Devon Keogh View Post
    At least the modern European governments do not act so extremely. Would you fear for your life and the lives of three generations of your close family if you walked out of your house in the morning and told a friend walking down the street that you disliked a major French, German, Spanish, American or British politician? I thought not. This is the kind of situation in the DPRK.
    I'm just wondering if you've been listening to the news lately. Heads of state in Europe having their phones tapped by America, including the German Chancellor. What's the difference? Everybody is transparent these days.
    Orwell got it more right than wrong when he wrote 1984 in his lonely cottage on the windswept Isle of Jura. It was the greatest piece of prophesy ever. If he could see the world now he might comment 'yes I got that right, and that, didn't I'.
    About an hour from me is GCHQ, the centre for British intelligence. They tap into people's conversations all over the world.
    The West is far less free than it used to be and in its own way it is catching up with the DPRK.
    It still has a long way to go before that...

    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

    Favourite Elements: Sodium, Neodymium, Xenon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dublin, Republic of Ireland
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Devon Keogh View Post
    At least the modern European governments do not act so extremely. Would you fear for your life and the lives of three generations of your close family if you walked out of your house in the morning and told a friend walking down the street that you disliked a major French, German, Spanish, American or British politician? I thought not. This is the kind of situation in the DPRK.
    I'm just wondering if you've been listening to the news lately. Heads of state in Europe having their phones tapped by America, including the German Chancellor. What's the difference? Everybody is transparent these days.
    Orwell got it more right than wrong when he wrote 1984 in his lonely cottage on the windswept Isle of Jura. It was the greatest piece of prophesy ever. If he could see the world now he might comment 'yes I got that right, and that, didn't I'.
    About an hour from me is GCHQ, the centre for British intelligence. They tap into people's conversations all over the world.
    The West is far less free than it used to be and in its own way it is catching up with the DPRK.
    NSA even spied on the Pope. How odd.

    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

    Favourite Elements: Sodium, Neodymium, Xenon
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 48
    Last Post: May 18th, 2014, 03:07 PM
  2. Car "PC"s and People "PC"s
    By jocular in forum Computer Science
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: August 8th, 2013, 07:19 PM
  3. Replies: 55
    Last Post: July 10th, 2012, 06:05 AM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: April 15th, 2012, 12:11 AM
  5. Defining "Democratic Process"
    By ben1321 in forum Politics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: November 16th, 2009, 11:03 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •