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Thread: Sen. Cruz, Presidency - unconstitutional!

  1. #1 Sen. Cruz, Presidency - unconstitutional! 
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    Sen. Cruz was born in Canada and lived there until four years old. U.S. Constitution requires President and Vice-President to be U.S.A. born!

    Is he trying to ignore this provision?


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    I think you're wrong there. It's not where you're born, it's whether your parent/s is/are American citizens. And one of Cruz's parents was an American citizen.

    If it relied on where you are born, then children who are born while their parents are serving overseas in the armed forces or representing the USA on a diplomatic posting wouldn't be citizens. That would be ridiculous.


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Sen. Cruz was born in Canada and lived there until four years old. U.S. Constitution requires President and Vice-President to be U.S.A. born!
    John McCain was born in Panama; he was apparently OK to run for president. (Of course Obama was born in Hawaii and he got a lot of grief over being born in the USA; go figure.)
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    Schwarzenegger for President! joc
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Sen. Cruz was born in Canada and lived there until four years old. U.S. Constitution requires President and Vice-President to be U.S.A. born!
    John McCain was born in Panama; he was apparently OK to run for president. (Of course Obama was born in Hawaii and he got a lot of grief over being born in the USA; go figure.)
    (nods)

    And Ironically even if the birthers were right and Obama had been born in Kenya than flown back to the states with mom, he'd still be considered an American by natural birth because no one disputes that his mother, Ann Durham, was an American citizen. Furthermore, we don't have to guess about the founder's intent for the meaning of "natural born citizens" because they wrote it into the Naturalization act of 1790, which stated: "the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens".

    Cruz, being born to an American could run for President regardless of having one non-American parent and being born in Canada.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; October 3rd, 2013 at 08:32 AM.
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    Simmer down. He isn't running for president or vice president, yet.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Sen. Cruz was born in Canada and lived there until four years old. U.S. Constitution requires President and Vice-President to be U.S.A. born!
    John McCain was born in Panama; he was apparently OK to run for president. (Of course Obama was born in Hawaii and he got a lot of grief over being born in the USA; go figure.)
    John McCain was born in The Canal Zone while his father (Navy) was on active duty there.

    October 2nd, 2013, 11:25 PM
    I think you're wrong there. It's not where you're born, it's whether your parent/s is/are American citizens. And one of Cruz's parents was an American citizen.
    "No Person except a natural born Citizen, [or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution], shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

    The above is what the constitution says. Children of diplomats or other U.S. service personal are considered natural born citizens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    The above is what the constitution says. Children of diplomats or other U.S. service personal are considered natural born citizens.
    So are people born to parents who are US citizens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Schwarzenegger for President! joc
    He gun tew chayunge da way we Amarricans speak our langwage to soot his owen volleeshun!
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    This law professor says Cruz is eligible but McCain was not.
    Opinion: Ted Cruz can be president, probably - CNN.com
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    The above is what the constitution says. Children of diplomats or other U.S. service personal are considered natural born citizens.
    So are people born to parents who are US citizens.
    His mother was a citizen, but his father was not. Where does that leave him? Is there a law which supports your assertion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    The above is what the constitution says. Children of diplomats or other U.S. service personal are considered natural born citizens.
    So are people born to parents who are US citizens.
    His mother was a citizen, but his father was not. Where does that leave him? Is there a law which supports your assertion?
    depending on Cuba's laws it may entitle him to dual citizenship. But if he never laid claim to Cuban citizenry (or whatever they call it there) he is just a US citizen. He may need to denounce any possible entitlement to dual citizenship but I doubt there would be much more than that, if that even.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Is there a law which supports your assertion?
    Sort of the point of the thread and crux of the problem. The founders did not specify the meaning in the US Constitution, leaving it to open to some interpretation. They did however define it less than 4 years later in the Naturalization Act of 1790 (already quoted above). In that original context it seems quite clear that being born of an American Citizen, even if overseas, makes one a natural born citizen. It's gets muddier as we get further from the founding fathers as legislatures and courts fight over various things such as the rights of blacks to be citizens and the general question of immigration rights a still contentious subject. When push comes to shove the courts look at the totality of course. Given there aren't' many challenges at the Supreme Court level for qualifications for President and the founders intended meaning for Natural born citizen is so clear from that 1790 law, it seems very reasonable that Cruz would be defined as such and eligible.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    The above is what the constitution says. Children of diplomats or other U.S. service personal are considered natural born citizens.
    So are people born to parents who are US citizens.
    His mother was a citizen, but his father was not. Where does that leave him? Is there a law which supports your assertion?
    depending on Cuba's laws it may entitle him to dual citizenship. But if he never laid claim to Cuban citizenry (or whatever they call it there) he is just a US citizen. He may need to denounce any possible entitlement to dual citizenship but I doubt there would be much more than that, if that even.
    Wouldn't being born in Canada make him a Canadian citizen?
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    The above is what the constitution says. Children of diplomats or other U.S. service personal are considered natural born citizens.
    So are people born to parents who are US citizens.
    His mother was a citizen, but his father was not. Where does that leave him? Is there a law which supports your assertion?
    depending on Cuba's laws it may entitle him to dual citizenship. But if he never laid claim to Cuban citizenry (or whatever they call it there) he is just a US citizen. He may need to denounce any possible entitlement to dual citizenship but I doubt there would be much more than that, if that even.
    Wouldn't being born in Canada make him a Canadian citizen?
    One of is parents is Cuban, I thought that was what you were protesting. I guess if he were born in Canada to a US citizen and a Cuban Citizen then he would probably be entitled to citizenship of three countries. I have dual citizenship myself. But I am a natural born citizen of the US and was naturalized as a citizen elsewhere. But once I am old enough I would be eligible to run for president. If I were asked to renounce the secondary citizenship I would in a heartbeat. But I don't know how to legally do it. If it required that I return to that country, I'd have a problem. Because I wouldn't go back there without a nuke in hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I think you're wrong there. It's not where you're born, it's whether your parent/s is/are American citizens. And one of Cruz's parents was an American citizen.

    If it relied on where you are born, then children who are born while their parents are serving overseas in the armed forces or representing the USA on a diplomatic posting wouldn't be citizens. That would be ridiculous.
    My mother was born in the former Yugoslavia (Slovenia) and she was born an American citizen, because her father had come over and got his citizenship before she was born.

    You are correct.
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    " 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Above is from 14th amendment. It seems to define citizenship in such a way that persons born outside of the United States have to get naturalized.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    " 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Above is from 14th amendment. It seems to define citizenship in such a way that persons born outside of the United States have to get naturalized.

    Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." In the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), the Supreme Court ruled that a person becomes a citizen of the United States at the time of birth, by virtue of the first clause of the 14th Amendment, if that person:

    • Is born in the United States
    • Has parents that are subjects of a foreign power, but not in any diplomatic or official capacity of that foreign power
    • Has parents that have permanent domicile and residence in the United States
    • Has parents that are in the United States for business
    United States nationality law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    " 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Above is from 14th amendment. It seems to define citizenship in such a way that persons born outside of the United States have to get naturalized.
    I'll probably look up the case later, but it doesn't seem to apply at all to the Cruz situation, since it's a judgement about status of people born inside the US...not outside.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Schwarzenegger for President! joc
    He would have walked it, if he had been allowed to run.
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    My daughter was born in the US and carried a US passport for a time. I have checked with her and she assures me she has no intention of running for the Presidency at this point. However, I am willing to accept campaign contributions on her behalf, just in case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    My daughter was born in the US and carried a US passport for a time. I have checked with her and she assures me she has no intention of running for the Presidency at this point. However, I am willing to accept campaign contributions on her behalf, just in case.
    And what's cool is you might be able to throw your entire life savings into that campaign as the Supreme Court considers removing the last bit of contribution limits (removing an obstacle to corruption).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    My daughter was born in the US and carried a US passport for a time. I have checked with her and she assures me she has no intention of running for the Presidency at this point. However, I am willing to accept campaign contributions on her behalf, just in case.
    And what's cool is you might be able to throw your entire life savings into that campaign as the Supreme Court considers removing the last bit of contribution limits (removing an obstacle to corruption).
    This is frightening!!!! THey should LIMIT them to no more than $1000.00 per person......make them run on the issues and not by media.
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    make them run on the issues and not by media.
    And how would voters find out what their views or policies are on the issues if they can't use media to publicise them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    make them run on the issues and not by media.
    And how would voters find out what their views or policies are on the issues if they can't use media to publicise them.
    I stand corrected, as I was not clear. My apologies!

    I meant let them have to pay for their own media costs. No campaign donations for at least a hundred commercials which they are not live, and speaking from script. It is like a tsunami and paid for by, "special interest groups" through huge donations.

    I would prefer public debates, personally on the issues. Question and answer time. THey get the media, they reach the public, they answer the questions...instead of being bombarded by COMMERCIALS one sided on both candidates favor.
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    Somehow this thread turned into a discussion of campaign finance limits. I disagree with what's been said. If you limit campain contributions, you leave the field open for the news media to influence public opinion. There isn't any way to limit what the news media print or broadcast without infringing on freedom of the press. And if they are not limited, why limit anybody else?

    The new media have a bias and an agenda. They buy their ink by the barrel. Their influence is enormous. At least with political ads, you know you are getting an opinion. News media disguise their opinions as news.
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    I wish they'd go back to just telling people what happens rather than telling us a bunch of exaggerated bullshit and speculation about what happens and also how to feel about it. I don't even bother reading or watching the news anymore. If I feel compelled to find stuff out I will go to cspan and watch the discussions live as they happen.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Somehow this thread turned into a discussion of campaign finance limits. I disagree with what's been said. If you limit campain contributions, you leave the field open for the news media to influence public opinion. There isn't any way to limit what the news media print or broadcast without infringing on freedom of the press. And if they are not limited, why limit anybody else?

    The new media have a bias and an agenda. They buy their ink by the barrel. Their influence is enormous. At least with political ads, you know you are getting an opinion. News media disguise their opinions as news.
    There is truth in what you say. I would prefer to hear frequent live debates on their viewpoints then commercials.
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    I wish they'd go back to just telling people what happens rather than telling us a bunch of exaggerated bullshit and speculation about what happens and also how to feel about it. I don't even bother reading or watching the news anymore. If I feel compelled to find stuff out I will go to cspan and watch the discussions live as they happen.
    And the continuous churning of news reporting about how other news agencies are reporting the news, rather than about the original story. I'd much rather get more objectivity and verification of facts than listen to Fox News complain about how Major Socialist News reported, and MSN report about what Faux News said today.

    --
    Unlimited campaign contributions wouldn't be nearly as bad if all contributions to political groups and candidates had mandatory reporting and complete visibility of who gave to who. I'm also somewhat surprised that states haven't' tried to limit out of state contributions...the ability for national groups to completely saturate local coverage and advertising space for Congressional districts and State referendums is seriously compromising our form of government.
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