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Thread: 100.000's are out of work due to the govt. shut down BUT

  1. #1 100.000's are out of work due to the govt. shut down BUT 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    The Congress is getting their paychecks, nice way to hurt everyone but themselves. This really sucks and should be worked out quickly.


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    The senate also refused to pass a bill that would end this, delay the individual mandate for a year (the most controversial part of Obamacare), and make them get Obamacare like the rest of us, without the 75% government subsidy they are now getting. They already think they are better than the rest of us.
    Of course, they already passed a law that has cost people jobs, stopped the creation of new jobs, and cut hours at the jobs that people do have. Why should they care about this?


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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    The Congress is getting their paychecks, nice way to hurt everyone but themselves. This really sucks and should be worked out quickly.
    To be fair to them (not sure why I feel compelled to do so) some of them are refusing or donating pay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheUnknowable View Post
    The senate also refused to pass a bill that would end this, delay the individual mandate for a year
    Why would Congress refuse to follow a law passed by Congress? Why doesn't Congress just do their job? Fund the government (which is their job) and then repeal Obamacare (which also falls under the heading of their job.) And if they don't have the votes to repeal Obamacare, too bad, so sad. Holding the country hostage because they don't want to obey the law should be grounds for at least being booted out of office.

    They already think they are better than the rest of us.
    Well, you should know - you elected them.

    Of course, they already passed a law that has cost people jobs, stopped the creation of new jobs, and cut hours at the jobs that people do have.
    Yep, because the people demanded it.
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    Congress getting paid while soldiers not getting paid. Seems legit.
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    Soldiers are getting paid.


    It would be interesting to role on post today though and take a look around. The military has deliberately shifted away from use of uniformed members for many garrison support roles over the past decade. Many of those positions are non-essential, but absolutely necessary to the day-to-day military operations. So what's this mean during a government shut down? Units unable to train because more of their soldiers are forced to pull routine checkpoint duties along post access points, or tactical fuel trucks unable to get bulk fuel because the civilian operators, unable to conduct a scheduled weapons fire training because most of range control personal are gone.

    --
    And we shouldn't forget that this shut down is on top of sequestration that had already sent many government employees and government contractors homes and functions such as hundreds of top graded research grants viewed as most promising and seed money for our best university graduate science and engineering students.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheUnknowable View Post
    The senate also refused to pass a bill that would end this, delay the individual mandate for a year
    Why would Congress refuse to follow a law passed by Congress? Why doesn't Congress just do their job? Fund the government (which is their job) and then repeal Obamacare (which also falls under the heading of their job.) And if they don't have the votes to repeal Obamacare, too bad, so sad. Holding the country hostage because they don't want to obey the law should be grounds for at least being booted out of office.

    They already think they are better than the rest of us.
    Well, you should know - you elected them.

    Of course, they already passed a law that has cost people jobs, stopped the creation of new jobs, and cut hours at the jobs that people do have.
    Yep, because the people demanded it.
    1) the house has proposed several laws that would reopen national park, pay the VA, open medical research, give money to the city of DC, etc. The senate rejected it. Interestingly, it has been mostly partisan, with Democrats much more likely to vote them down.
    2) No, I didn't. I didn't vote for them, as I've explained, it's mostly partisan politics.
    3) Some of them. Now they want to get rid of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheUnknowable View Post
    3) Some of them. Now they want to get rid of it.
    No, they don't.

    ===============================
    Quinnipac University
    October 1, 2013 - American Voters Reject GOP Shutdown Strategy 3-1, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Dems Up 9 Points In 2014 Congressional Races
    American voters oppose 72 - 22 percent Congress shutting down the federal government to block implementation of the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today.
    Voters also oppose 64 - 27 percent blocking an increase in the nation's debt ceiling as a way to stop Obamacare, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds.
    ================================
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    Poll: Most Americans Support Federal Shutdown to Defund ObamaCare

    Health Care Law - Rasmussen Reports™

    RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Public Approval of Health Care Law


    Sure, it's probably state dependant, but we can keep throwing polls at each other if you want.
    Also, please post your source for any quotes.
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    The first two in the prior post are from the same Rasmussen poll which is rather suspect because of a recent history of strong conservative bias, nor does it even address the question of people dislike it so much they are willing to risk a crippled economy to rid of the law.
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    I think the biggest impact on public perceptions will be from more of these stories* spreading through the golf clubs, churches and shopping centres. I hope the survey questions they're using will be suitable for reuse in 6 weeks and 6 or 12 months time to see how people's feelings change as they see how the reality affects themselves and their relatives or neighbours. There will be some negatives I presume, but these "I saved $10000 a year" stories will be much more common - along with the "I've finally got insurance" stories.

    * Meet Butch Matthews, A Republican Who Came To Love Obamacare After Realizing It Will Save Him $13,000 | ThinkProgress
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    The Congress is getting their paychecks, nice way to hurt everyone but themselves. This really sucks and should be worked out quickly.
    A provocative post! Already I see it has gotten you much support as well as flack. Good going!

    I am here (at the forum) mostly to provoke. My last thread just about slid me outta here on a greasy slope!

    Good luck! jocular
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    Rasmussen also predicted Romney would win the election IIRC.
    Sure, it's probably state dependant, but we can keep throwing polls at each other if you want.
    Yes. Some are valid, some . . . not so much.
    Also, please post your source for any quotes.
    Quinnipac University. See first line.
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    [QUOTE=billvon;467302
    Quinnipac University. See first line.[/QUOTE]We shouldn't have to google search your sources, especially when it's extremely easy to post a link to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheUnknowable View Post
    We shouldn't have to google search your sources, especially when it's extremely easy to post a link to it.
    You didn't. You just had to read the post.
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    This very short video provides a rather good summary for those of us in different countries which may not fully comprehend the American Political system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    The Congress is getting their paychecks, nice way to hurt everyone but themselves. This really sucks and should be worked out quickly.
    To be fair to them (not sure why I feel compelled to do so) some of them are refusing or donating pay.
    ALL of them should and they should ALL have to get Obamacare, though they are probably covered under Federal health plans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Soldiers are getting paid.


    It would be interesting to role on post today though and take a look around. The military has deliberately shifted away from use of uniformed members for many garrison support roles over the past decade. Many of those positions are non-essential, but absolutely necessary to the day-to-day military operations. So what's this mean during a government shut down? Units unable to train because more of their soldiers are forced to pull routine checkpoint duties along post access points, or tactical fuel trucks unable to get bulk fuel because the civilian operators, unable to conduct a scheduled weapons fire training because most of range control personal are gone.

    --
    And we shouldn't forget that this shut down is on top of sequestration that had already sent many government employees and government contractors homes and functions such as hundreds of top graded research grants viewed as most promising and seed money for our best university graduate science and engineering students.
    which deters and sometimes can affect any research project, unless the person conducting the experiment is selfless enough to continue for the benefit of all.
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    Might we take note of police officers with a higher commitment to civic duty than those congress critters. According to the news report I just watched, those people who were involved in the car chase in Washington were on duty without pay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Might we take note of police officers with a higher commitment to civic duty than those congress critters. According to the news report I just watched, those people who were involved in the car chase in Washington were on duty without pay.
    I don't know if that is fact, as our police officers are employed by the State not the Feds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    ALL of them should and they should ALL have to get Obamacare, though they are probably covered under Federal health plans.
    Isn't getting any health insurance "getting Obamacare", that's the entire point of the individual mandate?

    Personally, the democrats cannot and should not blink here - as imagine the demands on the debt ceiling if the key piece of legislature from President Obama's terms in office is offered up to pass something that should be the most routine piece of legislature for the house.
    Last edited by river_rat; October 4th, 2013 at 05:25 AM. Reason: Removed incorrect snippet in quote
    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by river_rat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    To be fair to them (not sure why I feel compelled to do so) some of them are refusing or donating pay. ALL of them should and they should ALL have to get Obamacare, though they are probably covered under Federal health plans.
    Isn't getting any health insurance "getting Obamacare", that's the entire point of the individual mandate?

    Personally, the democrats cannot and should not blink here - as imagine the demands on the debt ceiling if the key piece of legislature from President Obama's terms in office is offered up to pass something that should be the most routine piece of legislature for the house.
    That wasn't posted by me. It was posted by Flick Montana. Please refer your question to him. Mahalo.

    Reference Post #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by river_rat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    To be fair to them (not sure why I feel compelled to do so) some of them are refusing or donating pay. ALL of them should and they should ALL have to get Obamacare, though they are probably covered under Federal health plans.
    Isn't getting any health insurance "getting Obamacare", that's the entire point of the individual mandate?

    Personally, the democrats cannot and should not blink here - as imagine the demands on the debt ceiling if the key piece of legislature from President Obama's terms in office is offered up to pass something that should be the most routine piece of legislature for the house.
    That wasn't posted by me. It was posted by Flick Montana. Please refer your question to him. Mahalo.

    Reference Post #3
    Sorry actually referencing post 17, the quote got a bit mangled and included some of post 3 for some reason?
    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by river_rat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by river_rat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    To be fair to them (not sure why I feel compelled to do so) some of them are refusing or donating pay. ALL of them should and they should ALL have to get Obamacare, though they are probably covered under Federal health plans.
    Isn't getting any health insurance "getting Obamacare", that's the entire point of the individual mandate?

    Personally, the democrats cannot and should not blink here - as imagine the demands on the debt ceiling if the key piece of legislature from President Obama's terms in office is offered up to pass something that should be the most routine piece of legislature for the house.
    That wasn't posted by me. It was posted by Flick Montana. Please refer your question to him. Mahalo.

    Reference Post #3
    NO clue...the internet has been rather River Ratty lately! *ducking* just joshing!

    Sorry actually referencing post 17, the quote got a bit mangled and included some of post 3 for some reason?
    no worries the internet has been rather RIVER RATTY for me the last two days!! *ducking*
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    I don't know if that is fact, as our police officers are employed by the State not the Feds.
    1. The people who guard the White House are federal employees.

    2. DC administration is funded directly by the feds - but I understand the local administration have decided to risk prosecution / other legal action by continuing local employment anyway. (If you remember the last time this happened, Washington's streets were full of rubbish and rats by the time it was over because none of the local functions, including rubbish collection, were carried out.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    ALL of them should and they should ALL have to get Obamacare, though they are probably covered under Federal health plans.
    They are all under Obamacare and they all have Federal health plans.
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    A little history. Congress was presented with a 20000 page bill too late for anyone to read it. Pelosi said "Let's pass it and see what it says." They did. They didn't care what it said since they would all be exempt. It only affects the people. They had already spent all the people's money so now they needed more. This "health care" law is a tax to give them the money they need to live well. There is no way to stop them now. We are all doomed.
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    How about the real history, where the bill had been evolving since 1989, more a consolidation of existing laws including once that were probably more than 90% compatible by 2007.

    The claims of they didnt' have time, or didn't know, are just more disinformation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspade View Post
    A little history. Congress was presented with a 20000 page bill too late for anyone to read it.
    It was less than 1000 pages, and they didn't just read it - they WROTE it.

    They didn't care what it said since they would all be exempt.
    They're not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    The Congress is getting their paychecks, nice way to hurt everyone but themselves. This really sucks and should be worked out quickly.
    To be fair to them (not sure why I feel compelled to do so) some of them are refusing or donating pay.
    ALL of them should and they should ALL have to get Obamacare, though they are probably covered under Federal health plans.
    They do have their own seperate insurance which is given to them for their entire lives. That insurance is a much better policy than the Obamacare .
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    They should break the Obamacare out of the budget until they get it straightened out. There are serious problems that the law has within it and those should be rectified before being passed, IMHO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    They should break the Obamacare out of the budget until they get it straightened out. There are serious problems that the law has within it and those should be rectified before being passed, IMHO.
    That's the pure irony of the shutdown. The healthcare bill isn't part of the budget that's being disputed.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; October 5th, 2013 at 02:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspade View Post
    A little history. Congress was presented with a 20000 page bill too late for anyone to read it. Pelosi said "Let's pass it and see what it says." They did. They didn't care what it said since they would all be exempt. It only affects the people. They had already spent all the people's money so now they needed more. This "health care" law is a tax to give them the money they need to live well. There is no way to stop them now. We are all doomed.


    You joined this forum to express this sentiment? Keep up the good work in the future! Agree with you wholeheartedly, but I take exception to only one thing you say:

    We are not all doomed, as long as we have GUNS! jocular
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    The Congress is getting their paychecks, nice way to hurt everyone but themselves. This really sucks and should be worked out quickly.
    To be fair to them (not sure why I feel compelled to do so) some of them are refusing or donating pay.
    ALL of them should and they should ALL have to get Obamacare, though they are probably covered under Federal health plans.
    They do have their own seperate insurance which is given to them for their entire lives. That insurance is a much better policy than the Obamacare .
    Beyond a doubt. And, if they deny having their own coverage, it's because they're lying! In any event, they earn (dubious verb), STEAL, and otherwise pander-up enough money to pay their own God-damned medical bills WITHOUT INSURANCE! jocular
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    They should break the Obamacare out of the budget until they get it straightened out. There are serious problems that the law has within it and those should be rectified before being passed, IMHO.
    But that would eliminate the earmarks, preferred position status, and disseminated funding they are all expecting. They write the laws; they benefit from them. At the expense of the multitude of poor bastards paying for them. jocular
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    No tax paying Americans are exempt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    The Congress is getting their paychecks, nice way to hurt everyone but themselves. This really sucks and should be worked out quickly.
    To be fair to them (not sure why I feel compelled to do so) some of them are refusing or donating pay.
    ALL of them should and they should ALL have to get Obamacare, though they are probably covered under Federal health plans.
    They do have their own seperate insurance which is given to them for their entire lives. That insurance is a much better policy than the Obamacare .
    *chuckle* ya think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    They should break the Obamacare out of the budget until they get it straightened out. There are serious problems that the law has within it and those should be rectified before being passed, IMHO.
    Agreed 100%. Once the GOP agrees to that, the problem goes away. Write your congressman and make your opinion known.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    They do have their own seperate insurance which is given to them for their entire lives. That insurance is a much better policy than the Obamacare .
    Your statement indicates you don't know what Obamacare is.

    What do YOU think it is?
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    Dad was a Federal Employee. They had insurance through the government, and it was excellent!! It was extended to my mother after his death for a monthly fee.
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    The available government plans for federal employers meet the minimum ACA standards and counts--including TRICARE, which covers our military, many vets and what ever Congress uses.
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  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    The Congress is getting their paychecks, nice way to hurt everyone but themselves. This really sucks and should be worked out quickly.
    To be fair to them (not sure why I feel compelled to do so) some of them are refusing or donating pay.
    Well, some are, some most emphatically are not. From the website Omaha.com:

    ===========================
    Lee Terry says he 'cannot handle' giving up own paycheck during shutdown

    By Joseph Morton / World-Herald Bureau
    Saturday, October 5th

    Rep. Lee Terry, R-Neb., was blunt when asked if he would continue collecting his paychecks during the shutdown."Dang straight," he said. . . .
    "But you know what? I've got a nice house and a kid in college, and I'll tell you we cannot handle it. Giving our paycheck away when you still worked and earned it? That's just not going to fly."
    =================
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