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Thread: The N Word

  1. #1 The N Word 
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    Can we use it here? Why or why not?

    I want to type/say it just because I freaking hate it when people tell me I can't do something. I'm something of a Free Speech advocate...also, I feel that in order to truly become friends with someone, you have to be comfortable saying whatever comes to your mind. Insults are common among close friends and it gets awkward when a black friend calls everyone (including his white friends) n@gga and you, as a white man, can't repeat the word or you'll get beaten. Sometimes it seems like they WANT white guys to slip and say it so they can watch him get beaten...I've seen this before...they will call the guy a "stupid cracka", etc and almost taunt people into blurting it out...


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  3. #2  
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    Context is everything. I suggest you read the forum guidelines.


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    I'm too lazy. Can you paraphrase?
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    Meh, it concerns a minority. Whereas calling someone an "ass" while calumnious and offensive... doesn't label them into a categorical minority. I also don't see any reason to use the N word in any meaningful discussion, whereas "ass" "bastard" etc, could convey distaste or jovial defamations.
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  6. #5  
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    For me it is simply the fact that I'm being told by society that I can't say it. Same thing with saying "bomb" on a plane...I'll say bomb if I bomb bomb bomb bomb!!!!
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Meh, it concerns a minority. Whereas calling someone an "ass" while calumnious and offensive... doesn't label them into a categorical minority. I also don't see any reason to use the N word in any meaningful discussion, whereas "ass" "bastard" etc, could convey distaste or jovial defamations.
    But racial stereotypes= good comedy
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    I like what Mr. Mojo had said, but I hate when people hide behind the "satire" stamp after saying something that was blatantly acerbic, and without taste.

    At the same time, I've often felt that political correctness divides us as equally as sincere racism. I can't think of a phrase more patronising than "Person of Colour"... Then again I am white, so maybe I don't see it the same way that Blacks, Hispanics, Asians etcetra see it - as it isn't a term that relates to me.

    I think that acknowledging our differences, acknowledging the stereotypes about the arbitrary groups we can be lumped into, and having the will to not take it so seriously is the tried and true path to unity. It's about respect, and you can't have respect without acknowledging that there are differences between people. What's that whole thing about feminism? Different, but equal - that's the sentiment we're supposed to be striving for.

    As far as the "N-Word" goes, like Mojo had said, the context is what matters. Sometimes a word is used to convey a different sort of meaning as an example:

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    And if you wanted - for completely personal preferences - to use other socially unacceptable words for Jews or other groups, what would you do?

    There are more than a hundred such words here List of ethnic slurs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

    Free speech is one thing. It includes rudeness (along with telling lies and other anti-social utterances). If you want to be insulting to other people of any kind, they're allowed to use their own free speech to tell you that you're an ill-mannered lout.

    Seeing as you're an adult who clearly understands what's considered grammatical or indicates lack of education, polite or impolite, socially acceptable or unacceptable, you know what singles out racist speech from polite speech. You understand all of the social history around the use of terms to belittle others and you decide that you're entitled to violate social norms in the exercise of your free speech "rights". Why violate this particular norm and not another? Why bother at all? Use a racist term, you're painting yourself with the racist brush.
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    We have a similar word in South Africa that racist Afrikaners use to refer to black people in general, or specifically to males ( the infamous "K" word) and another, derived from "maid" for females.

    There is no good reason to ever use it if you are a white person. When a white person says it, it is always with a racist undertone, even if it is tried to use it jokingly. That connotation is ALWAYS there.

    From what I can gather from down here, the exact same can be said for the "N" word. Only thing is that black people use it very often, but the reason for that should be obvious? They are owning the term and taking it's power away.

    In turn they often call white people "cracker", which I don't find offensive in the least, but I don't live in your cultural mix pot. Is "cracker" really offensive to you? If so, why? What does it even mean?



    In the end you should forget about "what society says" and think about why they say it. What happens to a black person when you use the "N"word? They get offended, because the word has such strong historical significance in terms of their cultural history and was always used as one of the tools to oppress, belittle and disenfranchise.
    When a black guy taunts you with "cracker" and tries to get you to say the "N" word, that guy is a douche. That doesn't suddenly give you more cause for actually using the word.

    It is a word used by racists. You are not a racist, so don't use it, plain and simple.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepotter84 View Post
    Can we use it here? Why or why not?

    I want to type/say it just because I freaking hate it when people tell me I can't do something. I'm something of a Free Speech advocate...also, I feel that in order to truly become friends with someone, you have to be comfortable saying whatever comes to your mind. Insults are common among close friends and it gets awkward when a black friend calls everyone (including his white friends) n@gga and you, as a white man, can't repeat the word or you'll get beaten. Sometimes it seems like they WANT white guys to slip and say it so they can watch him get beaten...I've seen this before...they will call the guy a "stupid cracka", etc and almost taunt people into blurting it out...
    Just have to remember that freedom of speech only means the government oughtn't to prosecute you. The Bill of Rights isn't there to tell private citizens what to do with their own private property. It's there to tell the government what to do.

    They owners of a privately owned forum have the right to deny you the freedom of speech insofar as it concerns their forum. That would apply to any speech at all.

    Naturally it wouldn't be good for the forum for them to be too restrictive, but they don't benefit by letting you insult other forum members openly.


    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j View Post

    At the same time, I've often felt that political correctness divides us as equally as sincere racism. I can't think of a phrase more patronising than "Person of Colour"... Then again I am white, so maybe I don't see it the same way that Blacks, Hispanics, Asians etcetra see it - as it isn't a term that relates to me.
    I like to split the difference and call people with dark skin "black people", and people from Mexico "hispanic people". I like to make sure and add the word "people" to the end. (Or "person" if it's singular.)

    That helps to remember that we're actually just talking about sub categories of a single combined group. The group of "people".
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    Err, why would you possibly want to use the "n" word? In what possible context is it acceptable to use a word that has such a history and connotations?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepotter84 View Post
    I want to type/say it just because I freaking hate it when people tell me I can't do something.
    That's a pretty absurd reason for wanting to do something potential hurtful to others and possibly yourself.

    No one is telling you that you CAN'T say it, we're saying that it's not a wise thing to do.
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  14. #13  
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    For KALSTER.

    "Cracker" is the type of insult that leaves you perplexed - not offended, just perplexed. "Honky," however, deserves a healthy belly-laugh, at least in my experience.

    I think there is a generational gap when it comes to slurs. If I went out and asked teenagers what it means when they call someone a "Fag" or a "Faggot," I don't think it would mean what it did when I was their age: It didn't seem to mean Gay, but it still had that dark, divisive connotation. Is it still a sensitive word when it is used against somebody because of their sexual orientation? I would imagine so, but kids just don't seem to be using it like that anymore.

    I think words are malleable, they take on different meanings when confronted by different generations. I wouldn't be surprised if, in time, "Faggot" as a discriminative word against gay people becomes so archaic that it will completely stop carrying the same connotation it currently carries, and simply mean what it appears to mean to the youth of today. How do the SA youth of today use "Moffie"? Does it appear to mean "You're gay," "You don't belong," or, "You jerk/loser/etc"?

    I think the same thing might happen to the N-Word, but it might just take the flat-out archaic road, like "Negro".
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    I think right now, calling someone a "nigger" is a short form for saying "You're a different race than me and I feel superior to you because of it."

    Generally if you tell someone you feel superior to them, you've lost any chance of friendship with that person. Better hope you don't need a favor from them someday.
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    I still just don't accept all the indignant outrage that a white person using the N word seems to provoke. Tv stations are happy to broadcast the usage of the word when spoken by black people in many different contexts, yet again everyone is so stared or offended if there is even the slightest suggestion that a white might use such a word. This smacks of racism, it is blatant discrimination that allows people of one race to do something percieved wrong by another.

    It reinforces the idea that white people have something to feel guilty about, that they carry some kind of shame that they give voice to by using that word, yet in reality just how many average white people alive today have ever enslaved a black person?, the whole notion is just stupid. Which really quite frankly is rubbish, if a white person today wants to use the N word then they should be allowed to do so, and this should remain the case whilst ever black people are allowed to use the word. No, but obviously most white people don't want to offend black people, or other white people for that matter which may happen to overhear, and so as a rule white people generally don't use that word, but the point is they should be allowed if they want to, simply on the basis of equality between races.

    No race should have power over another, but with the N word seemingly here there are 2 distinct levels of just such taking place, firstly that of one race being able to use a word and prevent another from doing so and secondly that to be able to cause such great offence to another race with usage of this single word. The whole thing is a crazy situation, quite frankly everyone should get over their hang ups about white people using the N word and secondly nobody, regardless of race, should allow themselves to be offended by the usage of the word.

    The real concern here though is this is still a blatant reminder that people are of different races, the civil rights movement fought for years to achieve equality but you can only ever truely have equality when all races are actually treated equally in all matters.
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    It reinforces the idea that white people have something to feel guilty about, that they carry some kind of shame that they give voice to by using that word, yet in reality just how many average white people alive today have ever enslaved a black person?
    .... the civil rights movement fought for years to achieve equality but you can only ever truely have equality when all races are actually treated equally in all matters.
    Racism / shame
    How many Germans or anyone else alive today has ever tried to exterminate Jews? How many Australian and American citizens alive today have ever supplied smallpox infected blankets or gone "blackbirding" to enslave the indigenous peoples of their countries?

    The mere fact that none of us has ever done or wanted to do any of these horrible racist / genocidal / enslavement things does not mean that we haven't benefited in some way from the very recent denial of voting, education, housing, employment, financial rights to indigenous and other peoples. (Just check out that list I provided above.) Just as we should take some measure of pride in the good achievements of our societies, there's no good reason why we shouldn't temper that with an appropriate dose of acknowledgement at least, shame at worst, for the downright terrible things done by that same society. Using words that revive memories of the worst our societies have done and can still do is not a good look.

    Leaving aside the big N word, would you see someone calling an adult black man 'boy' as insulting or inappropriate? Or is it OK? If not, why not.


    Aside from all that, there's the question of manners. When someone tells you their name and you pronounce it incorrectly, it's perfectly correct for them to ask you to use it properly in future. And it's impolite of you to use/ pronounce their name incorrectly. Equally, if you use a nickname or an abbreviated version of someone's name and they ask you not to, it's rude to persist. When everybody tells you it's rude to call a certain group of people by an offensive name? It's rude to use that word or expression.

    There's enough rudeness and insults in the world to go around, there's no need to deliberately choose to add to that.
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  18. #17  
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    I give up, what's the "K" word?
    has KALSTER, or Kojax become an insult?

    Long ago, I had seen Richard Prior, who seemed to love to tell "nigger" jokes, one of which I found very entertaining. The next day, I met my soon to be wife at the universities swimming pool, and proceeded to shar the joke with her. Whereupon, a black man(afro-american, person of color, whtever) took it upon hisself to cross the pool, and stand in my face and space and agressively demand " You really like saying that word". Innocently enough, I said "What word".... and he almost screamed "NIGGER". I said, " I really ain't partial to that word, I was just quoting a Richard Pryor joke. Now, Afghanistan, however is a word I like, it bespeaks a far away exotic location". And, he began to look confused, and hurried away.
    Recently, I was using the word niggardly while speaking of a local businessman, and some insane middle aged white woman got in my face demanding that I not use that word. I'm guessing that she stylized herself as some sort of "diversity liberal" but she sure came off as "NAZI" to me.

    I had 2 close friends when my twins were born. Both were taller, more talented, and handsomer than me. One was black and one was white, and my sons bear their names.

    Some people seem to want to find something about which they can feel self righteously indignant, so that they have a good excuse to assault their fellow man. and I say "fuck 'em if they can't take a joke". Call me a "mick, kraut, dickhead, bastard, honky, whatever, and the worst i'll do is laugh at you.
    Long after my first marriage had ended, my ex-wife said that the cruelist thing I ever did, was laugh at her when she was really angry with me.

    I didn't invent this language. It ain't the language of my ancestors. And I've spent most of my life trying to learn how to use it(unsuccessfully as/re the opinions of some on this site), but to have jackasses get in my face for using the language is a peculiar beasty whose fangs are hollow shells covering their intolerance.



    So, why should I care if the language seemingly offends them?
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    sculptor look at the K section on the wiki link List of ethnic slurs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    It reinforces the idea that white people have something to feel guilty about, that they carry some kind of shame that they give voice to by using that word, yet in reality just how many average white people alive today have ever enslaved a black person?
    .... the civil rights movement fought for years to achieve equality but you can only ever truely have equality when all races are actually treated equally in all matters.
    Racism / shame
    How many Germans or anyone else alive today has ever tried to exterminate Jews? How many Australian and American citizens alive today have ever supplied smallpox infected blankets or gone "blackbirding" to enslave the indigenous peoples of their countries?

    The mere fact that none of us has ever done or wanted to do any of these horrible racist / genocidal / enslavement things does not mean that we haven't benefited in some way from the very recent denial of voting, education, housing, employment, financial rights to indigenous and other peoples. (Just check out that list I provided above.) Just as we should take some measure of pride in the good achievements of our societies, there's no good reason why we shouldn't temper that with an appropriate dose of acknowledgement at least, shame at worst, for the downright terrible things done by that same society. Using words that revive memories of the worst our societies have done and can still do is not a good look.

    Leaving aside the big N word, would you see someone calling an adult black man 'boy' as insulting or inappropriate? Or is it OK? If not, why not.


    Aside from all that, there's the question of manners. When someone tells you their name and you pronounce it incorrectly, it's perfectly correct for them to ask you to use it properly in future. And it's impolite of you to use/ pronounce their name incorrectly. Equally, if you use a nickname or an abbreviated version of someone's name and they ask you not to, it's rude to persist. When everybody tells you it's rude to call a certain group of people by an offensive name? It's rude to use that word or expression.

    There's enough rudeness and insults in the world to go around, there's no need to deliberately choose to add to that.


    Ok let's start with the last part here first, "There's enough rudeness and insults in the world to go around, there's no need to deliberately choose to add to that" yes I would certainly agree with that, really we should all try and respect each other by not using any language that is likely to cause offence to somebody else.

    Here's where I guess we tend to disagree, I just don't buy into this 'sins of the fathers' argument. I have never oppressed anyone, or indeed done any of the shameful things you mentioned, just like most modern Germans alive today have never been Nazi's. So I don't feel or think I should feel any guilt for these acts, nor do I think modern Germans should feel guilt for the actions of Nazi's decades before they were even born.

    This idea of benefitting from shameful acts also just doesn't sit well with me, because firstly when it comes to slavery it was never entirely about race, numerous examples exist of black keeping white people as slaves, yet I would never even think of any shame being attached to their decendants. Also the issue of benefit also seems to directly affect many of todays black populations living in the Western World. They to have benefitted from the suffering of their own ancestors yet they themselves have never been enslaved, so if white people are indeed expected to feel guilt at benefitting from the suffering inflicted upon black slaves centuries ago then should not also the their own black decendants also have to feel the same guilt, knowing full well their ancestors suffering has led then to be able to lead lives in comfort in first world countries?

    Again the point I'm making here is about equality, equality between all races. My actual considered opinion is that nobody should feel guilty about or ever have to bare the burden for crimes that they themselves did not commit, this means as many of these horrible things such as slavery are in the past we are or at least should all be equal, regardless of race.

    We should all start with a clean slate, no stereotypes, no preconceptions and certainly not to ever be judged as a race by the sins of our fathers or their fathers.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I give up, what's the "K" word?
    Just watch Lethal Weapon 3. It's a fun way to learn about how racism is bad and racists should all have cargo containers full of money dropped on them.
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    I probably should stop reading that link.
    Pretty soon, my old mind will forget where I found those words, and insert them in the wrong sentence at the wrong time.

    Are you trying to get me in trouble?
    ...........
    I looked over the offerings and came to the oft repeated conclusion that wiki is often wrong.

    eg: Wop is actually an acronym---With Out Papers which means an illegal immigrant, first used for any early 1900s illegal immigrants from mediteranian countries, then, mostly for italians, then for people of italian descent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I give up, what's the "K" word?
    Just watch Lethal Weapon 3. It's a fun way to learn about how racism is bad and racists should all have cargo containers full of money dropped on them.
    Even worse... was it's inability to live up to the original movie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I give up, what's the "K" word?
    Just watch Lethal Weapon 3. It's a fun way to learn about how racism is bad and racists should all have cargo containers full of money dropped on them.
    Even worse... was it's inability to live up to the original movie.
    That's only true if you ever expect a sequel to be half as good as an original.

    It's like seconds at Thanksgiving dinner. You're pretty much full when you go back and you do so knowing all too well that it's just going to give you indigestion and gas, but those mashed potatoes are just too much to resist!
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    I talk to others as would want them to talk to me. With respect and dignity is what I give and only ask the same in return.
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    Call me any name you want, just don't call me 'late to dinner'
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    I cant really relate to the need to use this N word. Someone using it here would probably ridicule himself.

    You guys realize that Race is an arbitrary fabrication, like the easter bunny right? Whats the Benjamin Moore brown-beige paint color shade at which the N word applies?Coppertone? Saddlebrown? Automn Bronze? Serengeti Sand?Why be fixated on skin pigmentation and not on blood type, or eye pigmentation?Does it apply to north africans with Saint Martin Sand complexion but not to someone from Pakistan with a much darker Rich Clay Brown skin?

    I propose the label KruleeBiscuit for people with type B blood and Green eyes (ranging from Lime Green to Stem Green, Pear Green would obviously not make the cut because of the yellowish tone nuance and insuficient saturation which disqualifies them for this label)

    "Those KruleeBiscuit are the ones you really need to be watching, but Capricorne KruleeBiscuits are the worse."
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepotter84 View Post
    For me it is simply the fact that I'm being told by society that I can't say it. Same thing with saying "bomb" on a plane...I'll say bomb if I bomb bomb bomb bomb!!!!
    I suggest you don't fly anywhere anytime soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    Call me any name you want, just don't call me 'late to dinner'
    Heaven's my father used to say that!
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    I talk to others as would want them to talk to me. With respect and dignity is what I give and only ask the same in return.
    I do NOT disagree with you but my son and his friends who are black, Mexican, Jewish, etc. call each other the "N" word and others and it is not PC but seems to be between them an ok thing. I personally do NOT like the word.
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    I do NOT disagree with you but my son and his friends who are black, Mexican, Jewish, etc. call each other the "N" word and others and it is not PC but seems to be between them an ok thing. I personally do NOT like the word.
    It's quite a different thing when people are "reclaiming" a word to counteract its effect on them. (A bit like 'slutwalk' for women and 'queer' for gays, I suppose.)

    Though they should be aware (not necessarily tomorrow) that this strategy needs careful thought. Done too casually, too often, it can keep the word alive rather than kill off its horrible history or current impact.
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    I think black people calling one another the 'n word' in a friendly manner is more of a defense mechanism. You take what someone uses against you and you turn it into something positive.

    I had a friend who was about 5'2 in high school and played football. His last name was Short and he would get teased by the other players. So he put a duct tape 'Y' at the end of his name on his jersey and people stopped teasing him. He used their ammo against them.
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    Found this on a blog. If you want to know why the N word is a bad thing, watch carefully from 1.40 onwards, esp the last 20 seconds.

    Burton: I put hands outside car when pulled over - YouTube
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    Niggggggggggggggggggggggggggerrrrrrrrr.....









    ......iaaaaaaaa
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    Didn't you say that you should stop being childish?

    You're still doing it.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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    I'm still allowed to have fun, aren't I daddy?
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    Juvenile and sophomoric.

    That really does describe you Mike, which is why I use it so often.
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    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
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    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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    I appreciate the attention. You must really care about me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I do NOT disagree with you but my son and his friends who are black, Mexican, Jewish, etc. call each other the "N" word and others and it is not PC but seems to be between them an ok thing. I personally do NOT like the word.
    It's quite a different thing when people are "reclaiming" a word to counteract its effect on them. (A bit like 'slutwalk' for women and 'queer' for gays, I suppose.)

    Though they should be aware (not necessarily tomorrow) that this strategy needs careful thought. Done too casually, too often, it can keep the word alive rather than kill off its horrible history or current impact.
    I agree with you. They use it only between themselves and only when with very very close friends.

    I still don't like the word, used in any way, but that is me. Flick Montana made a good point. It might be a defense mechanism. And Mr. Flick Montana what a clever lad to laugh at himself. Often when we make fun of ourselves using the terms others do to wound us, *S* we get the last laugh. Learning to laugh at yourself is a very good defense position.
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    When I was a child I once called another kid on recess a Nigg@r. I'd seen it used as an insult on a movie and I wanted to try it out and see if it worked.

    It worked. It made him really mad. He asked me if I knew what it meant (and I didn't). He didn't tell me what it meant either. It must have been a few months before I finally said the word to an adult and they explained it to me.

    He was a white kid with blond hair and blue eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    sculptor look at the K section on the wiki link List of ethnic slurs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    *looks*

    Oh it was K!KE. Thank goodness. Was worried for a second that my screen name was going to turn out to be a racial slur.


    ..... Good thing I didn't choose that other name instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I give up, what's the "K" word?
    Just watch Lethal Weapon 3. It's a fun way to learn about how racism is bad and racists should all have cargo containers full of money dropped on them.

    Mel Gibson starring in a movie that teaches not to be racists.
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    nigger... I said it, let's see what happens.
    The fact that the N word is horrible to use because it is racist is a bit inconsistent. If it really is that bad simply because it is racist, why is it bad to use when you're quoting somebody else who said it? Why do you have to say "He said, 'Go away n*gger'" and not use the actual word, when you are not using it in a racist matter yourself?
    What if you want to say, "He called me a n*gger", if you actually say the word and not censor the letters, how is that going to be any worse?
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    I was once corrected by a Canadian for using Eskimo. Then again once for using Gook. In Vietnam no one thought anything about that word. Mark Twain books are still banned in some places. Last year a NY Knicks basketball player was called a Chink. He was not bothered but others commented. Some people just want to correct anyone for the most trivial matter, as they want to impress with their correctness. It is silly and a weakness to let a word that is in the dictionary affect your adrenalin level. I grew up in South Georgia, and when I was 20 yrs old in V/Nam a black called me a cracker. I looked at him and asked if he went to any of the Atlanta Cracker ballgames. I thought the was talking about the baseball team. When I told him about the name of the team, he didn't believe me, and called me a honky. I didn't know what that was either.
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    Saying the n word didn't work out for Paula Dean or Dog the Bounty Hunter. Imus said "nappy headed" and that didn't work out for him either. The one thing in common is that these are white people describing black people.
    When black people say the n word it seem perfectly acceptable for some reason.

    In my circle of friends we refrain from the use of the n word but occasionally use other words that may seem vulgar, especially when golfing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    When I was a child I once called another kid on recess a Nigg@r. I'd seen it used as an insult on a movie and I wanted to try it out and see if it worked.

    It worked. It made him really mad. He asked me if I knew what it meant (and I didn't). He didn't tell me what it meant either. It must have been a few months before I finally said the word to an adult and they explained it to me.

    He was a white kid with blond hair and blue eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    sculptor look at the K section on the wiki link List of ethnic slurs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    *looks*

    Oh it was K!KE. Thank goodness. Was worried for a second that my screen name was going to turn out to be a racial slur.


    ..... Good thing I didn't choose that other name instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I give up, what's the "K" word?
    Just watch Lethal Weapon 3. It's a fun way to learn about how racism is bad and racists should all have cargo containers full of money dropped on them.

    Mel Gibson starring in a movie that teaches not to be racists.
    *clapping*
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple007 View Post
    Saying the n word didn't work out for Paula Dean or Dog the Bounty Hunter. Imus said "nappy headed" and that didn't work out for him either. The one thing in common is that these are white people describing black people.
    When black people say the n word it seem perfectly acceptable for some reason.

    In my circle of friends we refrain from the use of the n word but occasionally use other words that may seem vulgar, especially when golfing.
    Ditto and golf is a four letter word, and I often use the last letter of golf to describe a shot using a different work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    I was once corrected by a Canadian for using Eskimo. Then again once for using Gook. In Vietnam no one thought anything about that word. Mark Twain books are still banned in some places. Last year a NY Knicks basketball player was called a Chink. He was not bothered but others commented. Some people just want to correct anyone for the most trivial matter, as they want to impress with their correctness. It is silly and a weakness to let a word that is in the dictionary affect your adrenalin level. I grew up in South Georgia, and when I was 20 yrs old in V/Nam a black called me a cracker. I looked at him and asked if he went to any of the Atlanta Cracker ballgames. I thought the was talking about the baseball team. When I told him about the name of the team, he didn't believe me, and called me a honky. I didn't know what that was either.
    We get haole.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    We get haole.
    That's one that needs defining a little better. Does that apply to all non natives, or just the lily white ones? My son and family live in Honolulu and get that one regularly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I give up, what's the "K" word?
    Just watch Lethal Weapon 3. It's a fun way to learn about how racism is bad and racists should all have cargo containers full of money dropped on them.
    Nice scene that. In Spain they translated the word litterally (Spanish: Cafre), which is actually a false friend because in Spanish it means "a crazy reckless person" but doesn't have any racist connotations whatsoever, despite it's origin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    We get haole.
    That's one that needs defining a little better. Does that apply to all non natives, or just the lily white ones? My son and family live in Honolulu and get that one regularly.
    Aloha Mr. Sampson, I believe it tends to be directed mostly to lily white ones, such as myself. I have rarely had it directed at me, of which I am grateful for. Maybe that is the difference between BI and Oahu, then again, I think it just depends on where you are. And usually the word that starts with an "F" is put before haole.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    We get haole.
    That's one that needs defining a little better. Does that apply to all non natives, or just the lily white ones? My son and family live in Honolulu and get that one regularly.
    Aloha Mr. Sampson, I believe it tends to be directed mostly to lily white ones, such as myself. I have rarely had it directed at me, of which I am grateful for. Maybe that is the difference between BI and Oahu, then again, I think it just depends on where you are. And usually the word that starts with an "F" is put before haole.

    In Oahu west side lilly white hawlys on the beach are called shark bait.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple007 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    We get haole.
    That's one that needs defining a little better. Does that apply to all non natives, or just the lily white ones? My son and family live in Honolulu and get that one regularly.
    Aloha Mr. Sampson, I believe it tends to be directed mostly to lily white ones, such as myself. I have rarely had it directed at me, of which I am grateful for. Maybe that is the difference between BI and Oahu, then again, I think it just depends on where you are. And usually the word that starts with an "F" is put before haole.

    In Oahu west side lilly white hawlys on the beach are called shark bait.
    Another reason I live on Big Island.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepotter84 View Post
    I want to type/say it just because I freaking hate it when people tell me I can't do something.
    What are you, five years old? Do you drive on the left side of the road as well?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Do you drive on the left side of the road as well?
    I certainly do, which reinforces the point that context is important.


    Free thought: The acceptability of the use of the word by and among blacks, but its exclusion for use by whites, is ineherently racist. By constraining the use of a word (or practice) to a particular ethnic group we are making distinctions on the basis of race. That, surely, is inherently racist. I don't like it. I can envisage a situation in which I used the word to highlight how unacceptable that attitude is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Do you drive on the left side of the road as well?
    I certainly do, which reinforces the point that context is important.


    Free thought: The acceptability of the use of the word by and among blacks, but its exclusion for use by whites, is ineherently racist. By constraining the use of a word (or practice) to a particular ethnic group we are making distinctions on the basis of race. That, surely, is inherently racist. I don't like it. I can envisage a situation in which I used the word to highlight how unacceptable that attitude is.
    Could not agree more.
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    I watch a lot of American films on DVD. The N word is used on a regular basis by many, very wealthy actors. Some of my original X Box games use the N word. The world can get overly sensitive about white dudes using certain language, but not black dudes using the same language.
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    It is not about a word.

    It is not about who uses the word.

    It is about Intent and What That Word Means.


    If you think it is just a word- or a restricted word- then you simply do not understand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Free thought: The acceptability of the use of the word by and among blacks, but its exclusion for use by whites, is ineherently racist. By constraining the use of a word (or practice) to a particular ethnic group we are making distinctions on the basis of race. That, surely, is inherently racist. I don't like it. I can envisage a situation in which I used the word to highlight how unacceptable that attitude is.
    Is it about ethnicity though?
    Journalists, for example, can refer to themselves, and their colleagues, as "hacks" - but when so addressed by a non-journalist then it becomes an insult.
    Likewise, geek, nerd, etc.
    Use of a term by someone in that "group" is not the same as use by an "outsider".
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    The use of certain words, especially descriptors, being acceptable only when used by an in-group member to other in-group members is very common. Women happily call each other tarts or similar negative epithets, when they would be offended, maybe enraged, if a man did so.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    The use of certain words, especially descriptors, being acceptable only when used by an in-group member to other in-group members is very common. Women happily call each other tarts or similar negative epithets, when they would be offended, maybe enraged, if a man did so.
    Are you sure it's not familiarity that allows such word usage?, I have plenty of female friends who I could call a "tart" and they'd know I mean't it in a friendly way but would probarbly be offended if someone they didn't know called them it, and that's even if it was another woman.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    It is not about a word.

    It is not about who uses the word.

    It is about Intent and What That Word Means.


    If you think it is just a word- or a restricted word- then you simply do not understand.

    I agree with you about the intent, or more accurately 'percieved intent'. What I want to see is a situation come about where the level of insult and threat percieved from a white person using the N word no longer exists, or for that matter doesn't exist for any word. But in order for this situation to come about everybody has to stop being offended either by the word, words or white people using them, or for that matter any race. Once people stop being offended the words won't have any power, and they will no longer be able to devide races.

    Why do we wish to maintain a situation that gives people a word that can cause so much offense, I just can't see how we would. The N word needs to be left to die and never to have any power to cause offense ever again.
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    Are you sure it's not familiarity that allows such word usage?
    You're right - familiarity is the key. There can be overlapping "in-groups". And it's entirely possible for some journalists to use "hacks" sneeringly of a rival group and for "tart" or "witch" or "cow" to be used insultingly against an out-group woman by women who happily use such a word almost endearingly within their own group.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Are you sure it's not familiarity that allows such word usage?
    You're right - familiarity is the key. There can be overlapping "in-groups". And it's entirely possible for some journalists to use "hacks" sneeringly of a rival group and for "tart" or "witch" or "cow" to be used insultingly against an out-group woman by women who happily use such a word almost endearingly within their own group.
    Apologies I understand you much clearer now, you were making a point about how certain words are only acceptable within a set group and I picked up on the wrong bit, but yes I agree now I understand what you mean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    But in order for this situation to come about everybody has to stop being offended either by the word, words or white people using them, or for that matter any race. Once people stop being offended the words won't have any power, and they will no longer be able to devide races.

    Why do we wish to maintain a situation that gives people a word that can cause so much offense, I just can't see how we would. The N word needs to be left to die and never to have any power to cause offense ever again.
    It is difficult to ignore intentions.
    If I get offended that you kicked me in the face, it's difficult to ignore. It makes more sense to me to educate you to not kick people in the face than to teach me to not be bothered by it.


    Let me give you a different perspective, instead of the N-word, we'll try:
    Injun
    Redskin
    Savage
    etc.

    To me, when I hear any of these, I think of the dead, the trail of tears, the slavery, the oppression, the broken treaties, the theft and the degradation.

    I cannot easily ignore the primal rage any of these inspires. I do not get offended by the words- I get angry because to speak them with ignornace is to show a complete lack of respect for the suffering of people I associate with strongly.
    It is the same as stealing investments/tools I use to work/make money. It is the same as slapping food from my childs hands that I worked to provide and he hungered for.
    I would not be offended if someone did these things- I would be enraged.

    It isn't something I could just stop doing. I could not just stop being "offended" (enraged) by the use of certain words.

    No one has the 'right' to go through life unoffended. But that doesn't mean they have the right to not be bothered by another persons reaction to those words.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mikepotter84 View Post
    I want to type/say it just because I freaking hate it when people tell me I can't do something.
    What are you, five years old? Do you drive on the left side of the road as well?
    *chuckle* be nice...Aussies and Brits do that! They also walk on the wrong side of the sidewalk!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Free thought: The acceptability of the use of the word by and among blacks, but its exclusion for use by whites, is ineherently racist. By constraining the use of a word (or practice) to a particular ethnic group we are making distinctions on the basis of race. That, surely, is inherently racist. I don't like it. I can envisage a situation in which I used the word to highlight how unacceptable that attitude is.
    Is it about ethnicity though?
    .
    It is when it is a term that can only be accurately applied to an ethnic grouping.

    Separate observation:

    Childhood verse: "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me."

    Adult rebuttal: "The pen is mightier than the sword."

    Pot stirrer: "He was a well balanced individual. He had a chip on both shoulders."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    But in order for this situation to come about everybody has to stop being offended either by the word, words or white people using them, or for that matter any race. Once people stop being offended the words won't have any power, and they will no longer be able to devide races.

    Why do we wish to maintain a situation that gives people a word that can cause so much offense, I just can't see how we would. The N word needs to be left to die and never to have any power to cause offense ever again.
    It is difficult to ignore intentions.
    If I get offended that you kicked me in the face, it's difficult to ignore. It makes more sense to me to educate you to not kick people in the face than to teach me to not be bothered by it.


    Let me give you a different perspective, instead of the N-word, we'll try:
    Injun
    Redskin
    Savage
    etc.

    To me, when I hear any of these, I think of the dead, the trail of tears, the slavery, the oppression, the broken treaties, the theft and the degradation.

    I cannot easily ignore the primal rage any of these inspires. I do not get offended by the words- I get angry because to speak them with ignornace is to show a complete lack of respect for the suffering of people I associate with strongly.
    It is the same as stealing investments/tools I use to work/make money. It is the same as slapping food from my childs hands that I worked to provide and he hungered for.
    I would not be offended if someone did these things- I would be enraged.

    It isn't something I could just stop doing. I could not just stop being "offended" (enraged) by the use of certain words.

    No one has the 'right' to go through life unoffended. But that doesn't mean they have the right to not be bothered by another persons reaction to those words.
    Is Haole any less offensive? I simply don't use any of those "words". I just plain do not like them, PERSONALLY, even in jest. I see my son and his friends of all ethnicities use them on each other, and not in a degrading manner, it still remains terms, I really don't like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Is Haole any less offensive?
    Your reply almost reads as though you think I was defending the use of such words...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Is Haole any less offensive?
    Your reply almost reads as though you think I was defending the use of such words...
    Then I apologize, as that was not my intent.
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    Wasn't sure. Thought I better check. I can get long winded at times and don't always think things through. :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Wasn't sure. Thought I better check. I can get long winded at times and don't always think things through. :P
    *chuckle* I noticed the long winded part..........but thought you had read me sufficiently to know that would not be my intention to anyone in the forum. I am pretty blunt, in real life, and in written word. I try to be crystal clear, but I sometimes fail. People have been kind about that and I do appreciate it. My biggest worry is letting the f bomb drop......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wilson View Post
    I watch a lot of American films on DVD. The N word is used on a regular basis by many, very wealthy actors. Some of my original X Box games use the N word. The world can get overly sensitive about white dudes using certain language, but not black dudes using the same language.
    Perhaps you should consider how "white dudes" used that word in the past and why it was used in such a manner in the past and you might understand how and why blacks do not like or appreciate certain groups referring to them in such a manner.

    Especially when you consider the fact that racism still exists in the US and elsewhere.

    At the end of the day, I guess people need to decide why a white person would want to use that term to refer to a black person. With all the history behind it, why use it at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Free thought: The acceptability of the use of the word by and among blacks, but its exclusion for use by whites, is ineherently racist. By constraining the use of a word (or practice) to a particular ethnic group we are making distinctions on the basis of race. That, surely, is inherently racist. I don't like it. I can envisage a situation in which I used the word to highlight how unacceptable that attitude is.
    Yes, but why do whites need to use it in the first place?

    It is like a straight person calling a gay person a 'faggot'. It is offensive, derogatory, intended and designed to humiliate. The same with 'nigger'. It is inherently offensive because of its history.

    And not all blacks use it and not all of them think it is acceptable for even blacks to use it. Certainly, there may be a degree of familiarity amongst blacks who use it, however, I think even that form of usage is cringe worthy. Just as complaining that it is racist because whites can't use it is cringe worthy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Yes, but why do whites need to use it in the first place?
    I did not say that whites need to use it. I stated that if it is considered acceptable for blacks to use it, but not whites, then that is inherently racist.

    At the risk of giving offence to many, I really don't give a damn what race you are. If you have some immense pride in being black, or a sense of worth through being Chinese, or are enthralled to be white then I think it might be time to grow up.

    There was a case to be made for African-Americans to take the stance "Say it Loud, I'm Black and Proud." Persisting with this stance today simply extends the sense of separation and promotes racism. I object to that, and I object strongly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    And I do not have an opinion on whether it should or should not be used. I have a very firm opinion that if it is used by one, then it should be open to all. And if that observation makes you cringe, that is your problem.

    It then also becomes a problem for me inasmuch as you view such a stance as racist, while I view your stance as racist. And we are both declaring we are anti-racist. Paradox?
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Yes, but why do whites need to use it in the first place?
    I did not say that whites need to use it. I stated that if it is considered acceptable for blacks to use it, but not whites, then that is inherently racist.

    At the risk of giving offence to many, I really don't give a damn what race you are. If you have some immense pride in being black, or a sense of worth through being Chinese, or are enthralled to be white then I think it might be time to grow up.

    There was a case to be made for African-Americans to take the stance "Say it Loud, I'm Black and Proud." Persisting with this stance today simply extends the sense of separation and promotes racism. I object to that, and I object strongly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    And I do not have an opinion on whether it should or should not be used. I have a very firm opinion that if it is used by one, then it should be open to all. And if that observation makes you cringe, that is your problem.

    It then also becomes a problem for me inasmuch as you view such a stance as racist, while I view your stance as racist. And we are both declaring we are anti-racist. Paradox?
    In agreement with JG here, when a subgroup clings more passionately to their differences from the larger group than they acknowledge their similarities, they are reinforcing a psychological segregation and creating a wall of discrimination within their own psyche that often ends up being projected onto others.

    My biracial children, who are perceived as just black by most people, have been raised not to react to the utterance of the N word or to use any variation of it, because those who use it with intent to offend get confused when it doesn't work. And unless you give them the reaction they want, the word has no meaning and no power. You can't move on and really heal from the past if you continue to live in the past. Remembering history does not require one to live in it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I did not say that whites need to use it. I stated that if it is considered acceptable for blacks to use it, but not whites, then that is inherently racist.
    A lot of people feel that it is not acceptable for blacks to use it either.

    At the risk of giving offence to many, I really don't give a damn what race you are. If you have some immense pride in being black, or a sense of worth through being Chinese, or are enthralled to be white then I think it might be time to grow up.
    I don't disagree with this sentiment.

    There was a case to be made for African-Americans to take the stance "Say it Loud, I'm Black and Proud." Persisting with this stance today simply extends the sense of separation and promotes racism. I object to that, and I object strongly.
    When you consider that they are still marginalised and over-represented in the criminal justice system and where you have so many instances of racial profiling, the stance towards them today has not really been resolved.

    And I do not have an opinion on whether it should or should not be used. I have a very firm opinion that if it is used by one, then it should be open to all. And if that observation makes you cringe, that is your problem.
    That is where I differ. I don't think it should be used at all and just because a black person thinks it is acceptable to use the word does not mean that I think it would be acceptable for me to call others by such a term. It is vulgar, crass and the history behind it so awful that it makes me want to gag to even use it.

    Let me give you another example. The current 'slut' feminist movement. Women are declaring themselves as 'sluts' and protesting against the sexist and misogynistic ideology and beliefs they suffer from in general society. Because these women refer to themselves as 'sluts', do you think it is acceptable for you to call all the women you know 'sluts' because some women are embracing the term? How would you respond if a stranger in the supermarket called your wife or mother or daughter (as an example) a slut because he thinks that because some women use that term to describe themselves, then it is acceptable to call all women by that term? Would you tell a woman standing in your way in the street to 'move slut'?

    Just because some use it to describe themselves does not mean it automatically becomes acceptable to use it to refer to them as that.

    It then also becomes a problem for me inasmuch as you view such a stance as racist, while I view your stance as racist. And we are both declaring we are anti-racist. Paradox?
    So my stance that no one should use the word because it is so offensive is racist?

    That is an interesting take on that. Really interesting.

    I find your complaint that whites can't use it without being called racist as being cringe worthy. The reason being is simple. Why would a white person (or black person) want to use it at all and not be offensive?

    Seagypsy makes an interesting point. However her biracial children were brought up to not use it and not react to it. What makes that interesting is that at some point, she would have sat her children down and told them why they should not react to it, which has already given power to the word and has put it in the offensive basket. And it is offensive and an awful word because of how it was used. As she says, remembering history does not mean one has to live in it, but if she is in the supermarket with her kids one day and a white person turns around and says to her kids 'move nigger', she probably would not take it to mean that this stranger meant 'move sweet kiddies'. When you hear it used that way, you are dragged back in history whether you want to or not, because of the history of the word. And while she and her children may not react to it, deep down, if I was her, I'd be seething with rage and anger. But that's just me. Not all think like me.

    Then again, I don't think the word is acceptable at all, regardless of who utters it.

    Anyway, I'm out. Craving and consumed by thoughts of dark chocolate, bananas and strawberries and fresh mint together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I did not say that whites need to use it. I stated that if it is considered acceptable for blacks to use it, but not whites, then that is inherently racist.
    A lot of people feel that it is not acceptable for blacks to use it either.

    At the risk of giving offence to many, I really don't give a damn what race you are. If you have some immense pride in being black, or a sense of worth through being Chinese, or are enthralled to be white then I think it might be time to grow up.
    I don't disagree with this sentiment.

    There was a case to be made for African-Americans to take the stance "Say it Loud, I'm Black and Proud." Persisting with this stance today simply extends the sense of separation and promotes racism. I object to that, and I object strongly.
    When you consider that they are still marginalised and over-represented in the criminal justice system and where you have so many instances of racial profiling, the stance towards them today has not really been resolved.

    And I do not have an opinion on whether it should or should not be used. I have a very firm opinion that if it is used by one, then it should be open to all. And if that observation makes you cringe, that is your problem.
    That is where I differ. I don't think it should be used at all and just because a black person thinks it is acceptable to use the word does not mean that I think it would be acceptable for me to call others by such a term. It is vulgar, crass and the history behind it so awful that it makes me want to gag to even use it.

    Let me give you another example. The current 'slut' feminist movement. Women are declaring themselves as 'sluts' and protesting against the sexist and misogynistic ideology and beliefs they suffer from in general society. Because these women refer to themselves as 'sluts', do you think it is acceptable for you to call all the women you know 'sluts' because some women are embracing the term? How would you respond if a stranger in the supermarket called your wife or mother or daughter (as an example) a slut because he thinks that because some women use that term to describe themselves, then it is acceptable to call all women by that term? Would you tell a woman standing in your way in the street to 'move slut'?

    Just because some use it to describe themselves does not mean it automatically becomes acceptable to use it to refer to them as that.

    It then also becomes a problem for me inasmuch as you view such a stance as racist, while I view your stance as racist. And we are both declaring we are anti-racist. Paradox?
    So my stance that no one should use the word because it is so offensive is racist?

    That is an interesting take on that. Really interesting.

    I find your complaint that whites can't use it without being called racist as being cringe worthy. The reason being is simple. Why would a white person (or black person) want to use it at all and not be offensive?
    I think you are both misunderstanding each other. I don't recall EITHER of you saying it was OK for anyone to say it. It seems to me that you both have simply acknowledged that SOME people do seem to think it is ok for one group to use the word and and not ok for the other group to use it. JG stated clearly that to say one group can use it and not another is racist. Tranquille stated that to use the word at all by anyone is unacceptable, though I am not sure she actually said racist.

    You guys are more in agreement than you either of you seem to realize. And I agree with both of you. I agree with Tranquille that NO ONE should use the word (it should be left to die), and I agree with JG that if one group is ok to use it, then everyone should be. Fair is fair.

    On a side note: There is a "slut" feminist movement? I have never heard of this. Women in America don't take well to being called a slut no matter who uses it. That word was never used to refer to women in general over here. However the word "b!tches" has. And women here do often call each other that. Again, I don't get offended if someone calls me that, whether they are male or female. I know I can be one at times. I guess I just don't get offended easily. I also don't get embarrassed easily. Maybe it's an aspie thing. I think in UK they use the word "cunt" to describe women in general sometimes. I could be wrong. Over here "cunt" is as offensive as "slut".

    Feminists in America used to get offended at women being called "chicks". Now it's no big deal. Anyone can call women chicks and no one gets upset. I think it is similar to "birds" for women and "blokes" for men in UK. Is "sheila" offensive to women in Australia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Seagypsy makes an interesting point. However her biracial children were brought up to not use it and not react to it. What makes that interesting is that at some point, she would have sat her children down and told them why they should not react to it, which has already given power to the word and has put it in the offensive basket.
    It didn't give power to the word, it took power from it. I didn't set my kids down as you say. They were called that at school by a bully and all the other kids gasped and freaked out as well as the teacher. The teacher called me in to apologize and assure me the kid was reprimanded. I just kinda laughed about it. She was appalled at my lack of concern. I basically said "sticks and stones". It's a word intended to offend. If you choose to be offended then the word has power. If I throw a pebble at you, with the intent to cause you some sort of harm, whether physical or emotional, and it does neither, how much power did that pebble have? NONE. But if you have an emotional melt down over it then it was very powerful. It has whatever power you grant it.

    As far as my kids are concerned, I explained the history of the word to them and in their innocent logic they realized that if someone uses the word as an offense it was indicating that the individual was ignorant and that they simply couldn't find any other complaints to make about you other than the color of your skin. In the end they thought it was kind of funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    And it is offensive and an awful word because of how it was used.
    I agree, it is offensive and awful, to some. To others, like myself it is simply a non issue. I do not use it because it is a useless word to me. If I have a problem with someone, I will list the reasons for it, and it won't be the color of their skin. But most people find reasons to take offense. We are a competitive species and we rely on reputations and opinions of others to survive on more levels than any of us want to admit. It is also a natural reaction to feel threatened by things we have been taught to feel threatened about. And it is sadly true, that sometimes if a person uses that term, they are a person who you need to be wary of because they may choose to do more than just throw useless words at you.

    So my kids do not take offense to the word. If it is used in a threat then they take the threat seriously but not the word itself. As many have said, context is everything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    As she says, remembering history does not mean one has to live in it, but if she is in the supermarket with her kids one day and a white person turns around and says to her kids 'move nigger', she probably would not take it to mean that this stranger meant 'move sweet kiddies'. When you hear it used that way, you are dragged back in history whether you want to or not, because of the history of the word. And while she and her children may not react to it, deep down, if I was her, I'd be seething with rage and anger. But that's just me. Not all think like me.
    Actually, it doesn't drag me or my kids back into history. It simply exposes a bigot for what they are. Of course I wouldn't assume they meant "move sweet kiddies", and neither would my kids. But we would not respond or react in kind. We would just assume this person wasn't raised properly and was probably incapable of seeing reason. But my kids would show them that they are not what the person was taught to believe they are. They would simply apologize for being in the way, politely say "I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was in your way, sir/ma'am." And smile and wish them a good day. I know this because it has happened several times. Half the time the person ends up apologizing to us out of embarrassment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Then again, I don't think the word is acceptable at all, regardless of who utters it.
    Agreed, but I would prefer that people expose themselves for who they really are so that we can anticipate and plan for the most productive way of dealing with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Anyway, I'm out. Craving and consumed by thoughts of dark chocolate, bananas and strawberries and fresh mint together.
    Throw in some yogurt and skim milk and it is an awesome smoothy just waiting to happen.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Yes, but why do whites need to use it in the first place?
    I did not say that whites need to use it. I stated that if it is considered acceptable for blacks to use it, but not whites, then that is inherently racist.

    At the risk of giving offence to many, I really don't give a damn what race you are. If you have some immense pride in being black, or a sense of worth through being Chinese, or are enthralled to be white then I think it might be time to grow up.

    There was a case to be made for African-Americans to take the stance "Say it Loud, I'm Black and Proud." Persisting with this stance today simply extends the sense of separation and promotes racism. I object to that, and I object strongly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    And I do not have an opinion on whether it should or should not be used. I have a very firm opinion that if it is used by one, then it should be open to all. And if that observation makes you cringe, that is your problem.

    It then also becomes a problem for me inasmuch as you view such a stance as racist, while I view your stance as racist. And we are both declaring we are anti-racist. Paradox?
    I have to agree with Mr. Galt on this one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    I think you are both misunderstanding each other. I don't recall EITHER of you saying it was OK for anyone to say it. It seems to me that you both have simply acknowledged that SOME people do seem to think it is ok for one group to use the word and and not ok for the other group to use it. JG stated clearly that to say one group can use it and not another is racist. Tranquille stated that to use the word at all by anyone is unacceptable, though I am not sure she actually said racist.

    You guys are more in agreement than you either of you seem to realize. And I agree with both of you. I agree with Tranquille that NO ONE should use the word (it should be left to die), and I agree with JG that if one group is ok to use it, then everyone should be. Fair is fair.
    I said anyone who thinks it's racist to not be able to use it makes the argument somewhat cringe-worthy.

    On a side note: There is a "slut" feminist movement? I have never heard of this. Women in America don't take well to being called a slut no matter who uses it. That word was never used to refer to women in general over here. However the word "b!tches" has. And women here do often call each other that. Again, I don't get offended if someone calls me that, whether they are male or female. I know I can be one at times. I guess I just don't get offended easily. I also don't get embarrassed easily. Maybe it's an aspie thing. I think in UK they use the word "cunt" to describe women in general sometimes. I could be wrong. Over here "cunt" is as offensive as "slut".

    Feminists in America used to get offended at women being called "chicks". Now it's no big deal. Anyone can call women chicks and no one gets upset. I think it is similar to "birds" for women and "blokes" for men in UK. Is "sheila" offensive to women in Australia?
    The 'SlutWalk'!

    Over here, if someone uses the word "sheila", it is kind of tacky. Only the older generation of Australians use it now to be honest. The c-word is not something that is deemed acceptable here. At all.

    It didn't give power to the word, it took power from it. I didn't set my kids down as you say. They were called that at school by a bully and all the other kids gasped and freaked out as well as the teacher. The teacher called me in to apologize and assure me the kid was reprimanded. I just kinda laughed about it. She was appalled at my lack of concern. I basically said "sticks and stones". It's a word intended to offend. If you choose to be offended then the word has power. If I throw a pebble at you, with the intent to cause you some sort of harm, whether physical or emotional, and it does neither, how much power did that pebble have? NONE. But if you have an emotional melt down over it then it was very powerful. It has whatever power you grant it.

    As far as my kids are concerned, I explained the history of the word to them and in their innocent logic they realized that if someone uses the word as an offense it was indicating that the individual was ignorant and that they simply couldn't find any other complaints to make about you other than the color of your skin. In the end they thought it was kind of funny.
    I think that is a very good and healthy attitude to have.

    It is healthy. And refreshing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    I think you are both misunderstanding each other. I don't recall EITHER of you saying it was OK for anyone to say it. It seems to me that you both have simply acknowledged that SOME people do seem to think it is ok for one group to use the word and and not ok for the other group to use it. JG stated clearly that to say one group can use it and not another is racist. Tranquille stated that to use the word at all by anyone is unacceptable, though I am not sure she actually said racist.

    You guys are more in agreement than you either of you seem to realize. And I agree with both of you. I agree with Tranquille that NO ONE should use the word (it should be left to die), and I agree with JG that if one group is ok to use it, then everyone should be. Fair is fair.
    I said anyone who thinks it's racist to not be able to use it makes the argument somewhat cringe-worthy.

    On a side note: There is a "slut" feminist movement? I have never heard of this. Women in America don't take well to being called a slut no matter who uses it. That word was never used to refer to women in general over here. However the word "b!tches" has. And women here do often call each other that. Again, I don't get offended if someone calls me that, whether they are male or female. I know I can be one at times. I guess I just don't get offended easily. I also don't get embarrassed easily. Maybe it's an aspie thing. I think in UK they use the word "cunt" to describe women in general sometimes. I could be wrong. Over here "cunt" is as offensive as "slut".

    Feminists in America used to get offended at women being called "chicks". Now it's no big deal. Anyone can call women chicks and no one gets upset. I think it is similar to "birds" for women and "blokes" for men in UK. Is "sheila" offensive to women in Australia?
    The 'SlutWalk'!

    Over here, if someone uses the word "sheila", it is kind of tacky. Only the older generation of Australians use it now to be honest. The c-word is not something that is deemed acceptable here. At all.

    It didn't give power to the word, it took power from it. I didn't set my kids down as you say. They were called that at school by a bully and all the other kids gasped and freaked out as well as the teacher. The teacher called me in to apologize and assure me the kid was reprimanded. I just kinda laughed about it. She was appalled at my lack of concern. I basically said "sticks and stones". It's a word intended to offend. If you choose to be offended then the word has power. If I throw a pebble at you, with the intent to cause you some sort of harm, whether physical or emotional, and it does neither, how much power did that pebble have? NONE. But if you have an emotional melt down over it then it was very powerful. It has whatever power you grant it.

    As far as my kids are concerned, I explained the history of the word to them and in their innocent logic they realized that if someone uses the word as an offense it was indicating that the individual was ignorant and that they simply couldn't find any other complaints to make about you other than the color of your skin. In the end they thought it was kind of funny.
    I think that is a very good and healthy attitude to have.

    It is healthy. And refreshing.
    I didn't know that about "Sheila". I had heart the expression. the "C" word is one I use very very rarely........and if used, it had to be greatly earned.
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  79. #78  
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    I don't agree with the lot of ya.

    I cannot just turn off a feeling. I just feel, and I must deal with it after that.
    Sure, if you remove the power they have with the word, then the word cannot bother you. But how do you remove the power of History?
    You cannot change history. You cannot ignore it, you cannot forget it- it simply is what is.
    To use the word invokes that history.
    It keeps it fresh.
    It keeps the history alive.

    I'm not like some people. I cannot just turn things off. Having that History pushed into my face will not result in me being dismissive of it. So what may work for Ascended may not work for me.
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  80. #79  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I don't agree with the lot of ya.

    I cannot just turn off a feeling. I just feel, and I must deal with it after that.
    Sure, if you remove the power they have with the word, then the word cannot bother you. But how do you remove the power of History?
    You cannot change history. You cannot ignore it, you cannot forget it- it simply is what is.
    To use the word invokes that history.
    It keeps it fresh.
    It keeps the history alive.

    I'm not like some people. I cannot just turn things off. Having that History pushed into my face will not result in me being dismissive of it. So what may work for Ascended may not work for me.
    As much as I enjoy reading you. I have to agree with Mr. Galt on this one.....and also with Seagypsy.
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  81. #80  
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I don't agree with the lot of ya.

    I cannot just turn off a feeling. I just feel, and I must deal with it after that.
    Sure, if you remove the power they have with the word, then the word cannot bother you. But how do you remove the power of History?
    You cannot change history. You cannot ignore it, you cannot forget it- it simply is what is.
    To use the word invokes that history.
    It keeps it fresh.
    It keeps the history alive.

    I'm not like some people. I cannot just turn things off. Having that History pushed into my face will not result in me being dismissive of it. So what may work for Ascended may not work for me.
    As much as I enjoy reading you. I have to agree with Mr. Galt on this one.....and also with Seagypsy.
    Diversity is what makes us into people instead of a hive.
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  82. #81  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I don't agree with the lot of ya.

    I cannot just turn off a feeling. I just feel, and I must deal with it after that.
    Sure, if you remove the power they have with the word, then the word cannot bother you. But how do you remove the power of History?
    You cannot change history. You cannot ignore it, you cannot forget it- it simply is what is.
    To use the word invokes that history.
    It keeps it fresh.
    It keeps the history alive.

    I'm not like some people. I cannot just turn things off. Having that History pushed into my face will not result in me being dismissive of it. So what may work for Ascended may not work for me.
    As much as I enjoy reading you. I have to agree with Mr. Galt on this one.....and also with Seagypsy.
    Diversity is what makes us into people instead of a hive.
    That was well said, Mr. Neverfly. I agree. Our different live experiences, teach us many things, and sometimes even lead us to discoveries within ourselves and with the world we live in.
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  83. #82  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Let me give you another example. The current 'slut' feminist movement. Women are declaring themselves as 'sluts' and protesting against the sexist and misogynistic ideology and beliefs they suffer from in general society. Because these women refer to themselves as 'sluts', do you think it is acceptable for you to call all the women you know 'sluts' because some women are embracing the term? How would you respond if a stranger in the supermarket called your wife or mother or daughter (as an example) a slut because he thinks that because some women use that term to describe themselves, then it is acceptable to call all women by that term? Would you tell a woman standing in your way in the street to 'move slut'?
    You continue to erect strawmen. At no time have I said implied that the use of offensive terms is acceptable. What I have said and continue to say is that I vehemently object to the segregation of the population into two groups, one of whom can use a racist term with impunity and the other of which is prohibited on grounds of (?) political correctness. This promotes racism; this is racism.

    As to the matter of what would I do if someone called my wife a slut, I would likely respond "You've met her before then." That will disarm the name-caller in one or other of the two senses of the word.
    babe likes this.
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