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Thread: Isreal - Syria... East meets West? Whats going on?

  1. #1 Isreal - Syria... East meets West? Whats going on? 
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    Hello everybody.

    I'd like to understand more about the situation in the middle east.

    A friend recently told me about a tense situation in Syria which isn't getting much coverage in the mainstream media (perhaps only tabloid idk).

    I spent a few hours trying to find information.

    From what I gathered Syria isn't happy with Isreal monopolising Lebanon and sees isreal as a threat.
    There was some bombings in damascas, Syria. Who was that and why?

    Syria is backed by the Arab states, Russia and China. Isreal is backed by the USA, UK and France.
    Which makes it seem like it could potentially turn into WW3.

    A few years ago I heard about problems between Gaza and Isreal, then it was Syria and Isreal, now I hear Isreal is threatening strikes on Iran.
    I'm sure there is plenty of action in between that I never heard about.

    Can anybody please tell me what is going on?

    We'r talking about judaism, christianity, and western Culture squaring up with Islam and eastern culture right?

    I must have got something wrong somewhere as today I see the UK's prime minister David Cameron is on a tour of Saudi arabi, the Arab emirates and Oman trying to sell british fighter jets and Britain has been involved in secretive 'record breaking arms deals with Saudi Arabia, with little or no follow up on how the weapons were used'.


    What is going on?



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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    I'm afraid I'm not going to attempt explain what is going on as it is far too complex for my little brain... There are a whole range of factors: religion (including different branches of Isalm), politics, land, regional power, dictatorships, money, trade, oil, history, ...

    But I do have to express no little surprise at:
    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    A friend recently told me about a tense situation in Syria which isn't getting much coverage in the mainstream media
    This has been going on for, what, 18 months now? And has been headline news most days. How have you missed it!!!


    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    But I do have to express no little surprise at:
    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    A friend recently told me about a tense situation in Syria which isn't getting much coverage in the mainstream media
    This has been going on for, what, 18 months now? And has been headline news most days. How have you missed it!!!
    I did tell you I didn't watch much T.V!

    I've heard the names mentioned but never an explaination of the situation. I geuss the whole middle east conflict has been rumbling on for so long that it always seems like old news, the nutters are at it again... it wasn't until a friend mentioned it that I considered it had world war 3 pootential consequences (which I'v never heard mentioned in the media... (which I do try to turn a blind eye to admittedly).

    Thats why I'm hoping some of the good people on here will be willing to share some insights on the situation...
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    How have you missed it!!!
    I geuss you could call it skill. Luck maybe. Self preservation. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil (unless on the science forum).

    Seriously though, i'm interested in hearing any honest insights from the intelligent members of the science forum... I'm just not interested in the stuff I hear on the news, I can't trust it, it's lost credibility with me.

    I don't know what country your in, but i'm not aware it's been making headlines over hear.. it's all about the peados over hear... much more relevant than cameron selling jet fighters to saudi!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    So the Arab league Un and E.U have imposed sanctions with have damaged the economy and started the tension? Why were these sanctions imposed and what are they?

    Students were painting revolutionary graffiti on the walls, presumably due to the difficult economic climate that resulted from the sanctions... They were killed, this sparked the uprising.



    Thw syrian government obviously needs a lot of money to defend themselves from wealthy neighbours Isreal
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    This is a very complex situation. Here is a brief of the little I can understand :
    • Syria is a muslin country, the majority of people are sunnites (the largest branch of Islam). The country is run by a religious minority that is Alawite (a smaller branch of Islam). Bachar al-Assad is president since 2000. He succeeded to his father. The regime is not supposed to be a democracy according to Western Europe criteria.
    • Mass movement of protest again the regime started in 2011 and can be now considered as a civil war with thousands of victims. The rebels are grouped in the Free Syrian Army or FSA. The political components of the rebellion are not clear (in my opinion) and are a mix of people wishing to create a democratic government, sunnites wanting to eliminate the alawite regime, radical Islamists and Al-Quaïda supporters …
    • Most Arabian countries in the area are sunnites and support the rebellion : Syria as been suspended from the Arab League. Arabia Saudi provides weapon to the rebellion.
    • In other Arabic countries such as Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, mass movements were able to bring down despotic regimes, but the present situation is still unstable. The revolution seems to have profited to Islamist parties.
    • Iran is a Shi'ite country. (the second branch of islam by the number). Alawite and shi'ite are in good relation. Thus, Iran support the Syrian government.
    • Israel (in my opinion) fears that the revolution may put radical Islamists at the head of the country. They would rather accommodate with the actual regime (again, my opinion). On the other side, Israel is considering the eventuality of a war again Iran about the nuclear weapon question.
    • The situation between Syria and Turkey is degrading seriously, and several military skirmishes occurred between the two countries.
    • Russia is historically an ally of Syria and support the regime. It provides weapons to the government army.
    • China is opposed to any intervention in foreign countries internal conflict.
    • Some countries in Europe may be tempted by a military intervention. But this is very improbable, for many reasons (no money, too far from its area of interest, veto of Russia and China against any intervention …).
    • USA needs anything but a new war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by caKus View Post
    This is a very complex situation. Here is a brief of the little I can understand
    Thank you Cakus, most of that is new to me.

    This certainly is a complicated issue isn't it... but it seems to be rooted in history. Thats the crux I'd like to get an understanding of.

    I just read that the koran and mohammed are from about 700 AD... Many think (and this is a great suprise!) the koran was probably written by Jews of the time under orders from mohammed apparently (an illiterate leader), being jewish slaves they incorporated much of the bible and wrongly, so that other jews would know not to trust it, according to many scholars.

    How literate and meticulous Jews could be slaves I'm not sure... but they seems to always be the way in history.

    Why was a religion which was destined to disagree with the currently prominent religions (Judaism) and the immerging christianity, written by a Jew?

    What was that man thinking? what was his plan? Why would a literate person go to a country where he is a slave? Surely he came from a place with a good education system... why was he in mohammeds land?
    "These rabbi's concluded that since the poetic verse used in the Koran was only found in the Hebrew scriptures prior to the writing of the Koran, that the scribe used by Muhammad had to be Jewish. But they also pointed out the Biblical errors in the Koran as further proof that it was written by a Jewish rabbi or scribe because only a Jewish rabbi would know enough about the Bible to write such references and make the mistakes that were made. You see, Jewish rabbi's have been trained in how many prior Jewish rabbi's used such errors in their writings to send a message to all Jews that what they were writing was not true. Therefore, a Jewish rabbi would have intentionally suggested such errors to Muhammad, who was clearly ignorant about the Bible, in order to write in secret messages to other Jews to not believe the Koran. Such suggestions would have pleased Muhammad since he was trying to make it look like Allah was the god of the Bible and didn't really know anything about the Bible.
    Based on their observations and my observations, I believe that what almost certainly happened was that Muhammad used a Jewish rabbi slave to write the Koran, knowing he would be killed after the Koran was finished, the slave wrote in secret messages to other Jews by writing in errors in referring to the Bible, and Muhammad's fellow leaders killed the Jewish rabbi after the Koran was completed and they had disposed of Muhammad claiming he had been taken up to heaven by Allah. Based on all of the evidence, this is the most probably scenario for the writing of the Koran."

    Said one person, it doesnt matter who.

    So after checking a tiny bit of evidence it seems to confirm my instinct which ia that all religions are political things which are designed to divide and conquor the human family long into the future.

    Yes it's complicated and complex and we can get lost our whole lifetime trying to learn everything, but it's also very simple and obvious.

    Now nevermind the A bomb... How do we get every body to lay down their religions?

    The only good reason for division is to conquor... Why can't ordinary people no matter what religion we have been taught, realise that our own religious beleifs are enslaving us? and lay them to rest in the name of God!

    What a God forsaken mess!

    When will people wake up to the reality of it all and stop blindly beleiving in fairy tales?
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  10. #9  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    We'r talking about judaism, christianity, and western Culture squaring up with Islam and eastern culture right?
    No, wrong. That is total Bullshit. Wars are decided and then before anyone knows anything about it the LIES and propaganda starts to fabricate a narrative before bombs start to explode, so that when bombs do explode the people say its about time (and perceive the conflict from the perspective of a bullshit fabricated narrative instead of the warmongering powermongering greedy and degenerate reasons that actually motivated the people in positions of influence that fooled them into supporting it).

    Lets see what one military officer has to say about this concept:
    Goering.jpg

    A more recent perspective? Here:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LTdx1nPu3k
    The Neocon's wet dream: "We're going to take out 7 countries in 5 years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan & Iran.." Video Interview with General Wesley Clark



    So the people are being bullshitted by the government and the MEDIA, war as Smedley Butler puts it is a RACKET
    war-is-a-racket1.jpg


    The US has supported terrorists and coup d'etats for a hundred years, that's where the phrase "Banana Republic" comes from (Dictators approved by United Fruit Co or Chiquitta or whatever), you can also look into Operation Ajax which used terrorism inside Iran as a prelude to coup d'etat against the democratically elected Mossadeq (who rubbed Oil interests the wrong way) and of course Operation Ajax was not detailed in the Media then, so that the typical audience of the The Abbott and Costello Show didnt know about it anymore that the typical American Idol audience knows that the US is supporting terrorists in Iran right this day or that the civil war in Syria is fabricated by the West/NATO/Anglo-Zionists/whatever just like the one in Libya. Note that the War can be covert and indirect (like many instances of bribery, corruption, assassination, terrorism, death squads, coup d'etat, etc) or more up front with direct military action (drone, bombing, invasion), or anything in between.
    Last edited by icewendigo; November 6th, 2012 at 01:33 PM.
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    I like your post icewendigo...

    Interesting link and posters.

    Surely religious divisions and east/west cultural divisions are all part of the plan.

    War is peace and all that philosophy.

    Iraq, syria, Lebanon, Lybia, Iran... All muslim nations that ameria decided to invade 10 days after 9/11.

    You can't blame those who think 9.11 was a conspiracy commited as an excuse to attack these countries...

    It all seems quite absurd.
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    [QUOTE=question for you;364578]
    Quote Originally Posted by caKus View Post
    Why was a religion which was destined to disagree with the currently prominent religions (Judaism) and the immerging christianity, written by a Jew?
    In my opinion, the "new" religions, Christianity and Islam were not founded as a total breaking-off with Judaism but as a continuity, an extension of the sources of monotheism. We (from Christian countries) are all aware that the Bible incorporates the Old Testament. But few of us are aware that Islam incorporates Judaic prophets like Abraham. Alawites in Syria have respect for Christians and consider the Christ as a prophet. They are reported to celebrate Chrismas. From this point of view, the fall of the present regime may not be a good thing for Christians and other religious minority. Traditionally, Marie, mother of Jesus, is honored by Islam and is considered as an example for all women.

    Perhaps, one day, men of various religions will understand that they are prying the same God. But for the time being, the situation in Middle East is not very auspicious.
    question for you likes this.
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  13. #12  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    "Surely religious divisions and east/west cultural divisions are all part of the plan."
    IMO, they are part of the Bullshit we are being fed, but they have nothing to do with the real reasons behind the wars. Rulers see religion as useful as Seneca puts it, and impersialists see it as insruments of division (divide to conquer). The first step is to realize its a disinformation trap, its not about religion, that is the bullshit narrative you need to see beyond.


    The US Bombed the Serbs (Christians but Russian supported), the US supports the salafist Saudi Regime, supports muslims extremists in (against) China.




    "Iraq, syria, Lebanon, Lybia, Iran... All muslim nations that ameria decided to invade 10 days after 9/11."
    Wrong way to put it, imo, its 100% wrong to see Iraq as being a Muslim country (whith respect to the war), unless you want to drink brown bullshit Kool-Aid, Mulsim country has Zero to do with the war in Iraq, just as Saudi Arabia's Muslimy-ness has zero to do about why the US supports them, you could as well say the US Empire is at war with countries with an I and an A in their name. Im not saying Iraq or Syria (or Iran) are not Mulsim, anymore than Im saying ~they are countries without an I and an A in their name~, I am saying it is irrelevant and a blatant part of the bullshit misdirection we need to avoid.

    cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    Wrong way to put it, imo, its 100% wrong to see Iraq as being a Muslim country (whith respect to the war), unless you want to drink brown bullshit Kool-Aid, Mulsim country has Zero to do with the war in Iraq, just as Saudi Arabia's Muslimy-ness has zero to do about why the US supports them, you could as well say the US Empire is at war with countries with an I and an A in their name. Im not saying Iraq or Syria (or Iran) are not Mulsim, anymore than Im saying ~they are countries without an I and an A in their name~, I am saying it is irrelevant and a blatant part of the bullshit misdirection we need to avoid.

    cheers
    Ok.. so it's coincidental? There must be a connection.

    Maybe it's that the leaders can only incite enough fear in their people for a nations with an alien religion?

    Somewhere along the line the religious divisions must be a part of the plan and part of the reason that nations are still at war today. That must be the original reason for the middle east situation today. The religious divisions, which are ofcourse cultural and political divisions too.

    If the middle eastern nations were christians do you think american and british people could be convinced that those contries represent a threat? I doubt it.

    Although the british and american people never got a say in the war... if they had felt it was unecesary they/we would have made our feelings clear to the authorities.

    It's only the fear of the unknown which was stirred up on both sides which meant the war could go ahead, and we could all be oppressed by fear and misery.

    I'm not saying the war mongers are religious, or that religion has anything to do with their motives... But the people are religiously different and therefor different enough to be scared of each others ways. Thats how enough ill feelings can be stirred up to allow for a war IMO.

    You know what I mean?

    Cheers.
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    [QUOTE=caKus;364601]
    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by caKus View Post
    Why was a religion which was destined to disagree with the currently prominent religions (Judaism) and the immerging christianity, written by a Jew?
    In my opinion, the "new" religions, Christianity and Islam were not founded as a total breaking-off with Judaism but as a continuity, an extension of the sources of monotheism. We (from Christian countries) are all aware that the Bible incorporates the Old Testament. But few of us are aware that Islam incorporates Judaic prophets like Abraham.
    Perhaps, one day, men of various religions will understand that they are prying the same God. But for the time being, the situation in Middle East is not very auspicious.
    Hmmm and this is what i'm wrestling with... if judaism was the original monotheistic religion that christianity and islam sprouted from... therefor the Jewish religion was powerful enough to introduce monotheistic faith in these other places... then why did it not introduce itself,... Judaism, rather than introduce a bunch of varients of itself which can never live alongside each other and are destined to be at war with each other???

    Is that becuase of an intentional division? we all know organised religion is about power... so it makes sense that organised religion has deliberately divided and conquored the world IMO.
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    Many Westerners oversimplify Syrian civil war as a religious conflict. Syria is run by Ba'ath party, which is based almost entirely on Arab nationalism and of mixed religious affiliation. (It was largely established by a Christian) and the Assad dictator was in large part successful at minimizing the violence between the religious factions. In many ways it resembles the Saddam regime. I hope after Assad is gone, the country doesn't follow the religious based ethnic cleansing of neighborhood by neighborhood similar to what happened in Iraq over the past ten years.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    Many think (and this is a great suprise!) the koran was probably written by Jews of the time under orders from mohammed apparently (an illiterate leader), being jewish slaves they incorporated much of the bible and wrongly, so that other jews would know not to trust it, according to many scholars.
    I see you have been hanging around conspiracy sites again.

    Why was a religion which was destined to disagree with the currently prominent religions (Judaism) and the immerging christianity, written by a Jew?
    Why would anyone believe such a thing? Why wouldn't they do some research (keyword: primary sources) to check?

    How do we get every body to lay down their religions?
    I never understand why anyone would think that would help. People would just make war over hair colour, language, football team, ... Until someone rediscovered religion (with its message of peace).
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    Is that becuase of an intentional division?
    There are two general approaches to history: the conspiracy theory ("it was all part of a Grand Plan") or the "cock up" theory ("ooops, I wasn't expecting that").

    You clearly subscribe to the first (which is, in general, unsupportable). I tend to the latter, just based on what I see around me.

    It may be better to remember the saying: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence".
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  19. #18  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    "Ok.. so it's coincidental?"
    Yes, except that its the perfect goldylock theme from an Israel propaganda festival perspective and there is a regional correlation, but from a broader perspective its coincidental.


    "There must be a connection."
    No causal connection can be made with religion, Turkey is part of NATO but Muslim, the US Supports the current non-suicidal US boot-licking Saudi Regime. You can recycle the same bullshit narrative, but thats not a real connection because its bullshit. And remember the same Iraq and Saddam were supported by the US, which shows that both the religious angle and the freedom and democracy (Saddam is bad) angle are lies/manipulations.




    "Maybe it's that the leaders can only incite enough fear in their people for a nations with an alien religion?"
    No. Propaganda can make the people fear Cow Farts if the Government and Media put their minds to it. And you can use other methods than Fear, like demonize, or say ~we dont fear Regime X, we want to bomb the country (and kill children by the thousands in the process) so that they can be free from their mean leader out of the goodness of our altruistic hearts~. This sells too.




    "If the middle eastern nations were christians do you think american and british people could be convinced that those contries represent a threat? I doubt it."
    Of course they could fabricate a reason, look at Serbia. (and Hugo Chavez is described as a dictator on mainstream TV[blatant lie] even if his election was more democratically sound than W Bush's anointment). The US invaded Panama and Grenada, they werent muslim. Read "Operation Northwoods" which was not implemented but would have made people hate/fear Cuba with false flag operations that would have fool most of the government and military, including having an airplane filled with passengers that were CIA false identity and replaced by a remote control plane that would send a distress message with the "Cuba did it" narrative before being blown up.




    "if they had felt it was unecesary they/we would have made our feelings clear to the authorities."
    This would just have exposed the fake democracy even more for the sham it is, but would not have stopped the war anymore than the 2006 election changed *anything*. Also note that Phil Donahue's show was canceled after having commited the crime of having a guest that was against the war and that the Politically Incorrect show was cancelled after the host said the terrorists might not have been as stupid as they were being portrayed as. Decent is suppressed until it can be ignored and then you can use the same line as was denouced almost 100 years ago by Mark Twain which basically goes something like ~maybe we were wrong to go to war but now that we are in and have sacrificed so much we might as well...~ which applied to the Vietnam War but I think was made in response to the Philipines War of 1911-13(or close to that) and is used time and again.


    " But the people are religiously different and therefor different enough to be scared of each others ways. Thats how enough ill feelings can be stirred up to allow for a war IMO."
    I disgree in that imo theres nothing special about religion(Im not a fan of religion btw), you can go to war with another country with the same religion with any numer of excuses, religion is just an excuse like any other (It might be easier to pull because you are talking of people that beleive theres an invisible man in the clouds, but...). Imo beleiving that religion has a special relationship with (or overemphasizing it as an excuse for) war is to not fully appreciate the Racket angle of War, the characteristic that it is based on/facilitated by Lies.
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    "the conspiracy theory ("it was all part of a Grand Plan") "
    Imo,
    Conspiracies are an historical FACT, they dont necessarily have to do with a great master plan, but usually have to do with activities that are COVERT and usually unknown by the general population (or unproven).
    Also note that in addition to conspiracies (plans behind closed doors) and accidents, there are flows/tendencies/currents, and there are also systemic influences (that can be misunderstood to be planned but are just the aggregation of effects whose pattern results from the situation/environment/system in place, like if you happen to drop balls and they all appear to go right but its because theres a slope in the floor instead of each ball being in on it and part of the move right cabal)

    ""Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence""
    Thats good (though some malice can sometimes be camouflaged with claims of inadvertent incompetence or uncovered by the malicious one's incompetence).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    I see you have been hanging around conspiracy sites again.
    I never knowingly hang around conspiracy sites and don't like you implying that I do, or have... I type a question in google and open all the pages that look relevant and safe.

    It was deepak chopra I first saw who said this... then there was a load of others who said similar stuff on google.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Why would anyone believe such a thing? Why wouldn't they do some research (keyword: primary sources) to check?
    I wouldn't say I beleive it... But this is what my research found.

    If you know better then why no help somebody out who clearly isn't very good at research? otherwise your comment is nonsensical my friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    How do we get every body to lay down their religions?
    I never understand why anyone would think that would help. People would just make war over hair colour, language, football team, ... Until someone rediscovered religion (with its message of peace).
    That might well be true. It might also be rubbish.

    People fight over football and skin colour etc anyway... but not half as much as they fight in the name of religion.

    If people had one true religion or spiritual philosophy... then it would not cause violence, it would avoid it.

    It's blatantly obvious that the abrahamic religions are variations on a theme... variations that will never see eye to eye.

    Therefor it's not such a giant leap for the imagination to guess that the variants might have been created in order to promote conflict.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    Is that becuase of an intentional division?
    There are two general approaches to history: the conspiracy theory ("it was all part of a Grand Plan") or the "cock up" theory ("ooops, I wasn't expecting that").

    You clearly subscribe to the first (which is, in general, unsupportable). I tend to the latter, just based on what I see around me.

    It may be better to remember the saying: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence".
    Your being a little arrogant when presuming what I subscribe to.

    I naturally subscribe to both theories being true. It's a mixture.

    Your notion that nothing has ever come about through planning and forsight, is weak. I'm being blunt but bear in mind I have enjoyed our conversations over the past few weeks and mean you no offence.

    I beleive there are very intelligent people around who make plans long term... and has been for a long time.

    Whether the plans materialise in the way expected all the time, I doubt, but I suspect many of them have been successfully implemented.
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    " But the people are religiously different and therefor different enough to be scared of each others ways. Thats how enough ill feelings can be stirred up to allow for a war IMO."
    I disgree in that imo theres nothing special about religion(Im not a fan of religion btw), you can go to war with another country with the same religion with any numer of excuses, religion is just an excuse like any other (It might be easier to pull because you are talking of people that beleive theres an invisible man in the clouds, but...). Imo beleiving that religion has a special relationship with (or overemphasizing it as an excuse for) war is to not fully appreciate the Racket angle of War, the characteristic that it is based on/facilitated by Lies.
    Well I only suggest that religion is division. I do still think it makes it easier... I agree with probably all you say, religion isn't essential. But even if we look at England at war with Germany, both white, both Christian, both very closly related. But religion played it's part in the whole thing. I agree religion is not the reason for war, but a tool to help acheive war (in the wrong hands).

    So you see it as a racket... for the personal gain of the few in command? For the wealth? for the power? For a more orderly society?
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Saw this on a news forum: If the Muslims laid down their arms in the ME today, then there would be peace. If the Jews did the same then Israel would face annihilation.

    Personally as an atheist I prefer peace, so if the Muslims feel the same way I do then why not give it a try? Or is this just bullshit?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Saw this on a news forum: If the Muslims laid down their arms in the ME today, then there would be peace. If the Jews did the same then Israel would face annihilation.

    Personally as an atheist I prefer peace, so if the Muslims feel the same way I do then why not give it a try? Or is this just bullshit?
    I suspect it is probably bullshit with a lot of truth in it. If this is true, lets try to understand it. Why is it that the Muslims hate Isreal? Why does Isreal need it's arms more than any other national perhaps?


    News Flash: Isreal is dropping bombs on Gaza yesterday... lost contact with our correspondent so unable to give details. Perhaps somebody here can brief us on events.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/op...d-in-gaza.html

    Amid calls for more war crimes, Israel minister hopes attacks will "reformat" Gaza | The Electronic Intifada

    Apocalypse Now: Israel bombards Gaza for fifth straight day with nearly 1,000 airstrikes paving the way for imminent invasion | Mail Online
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    Is that becuase of an intentional division?
    There are two general approaches to history: the conspiracy theory ("it was all part of a Grand Plan") or the "cock up" theory ("ooops, I wasn't expecting that").
    There are three.

    The third is the "people are greedy" theory. It tends toward smaller groups individually conspiring to make themselves individually rich by spreading lies and dogma to the rest of the population (those not involved in the conspiracy.) The smaller groups hope to become wealthy at the expense of the unaffiliated, and do this by pitting the unaffiliated groups against each other.

    When there is a particularly large take, sometimes they join forces. At other times they make war against each other. There is no unified "grand plan".


    You clearly subscribe to the first (which is, in general, unsupportable). I tend to the latter, just based on what I see around me.

    It may be better to remember the saying: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence".
    And I say to be wary of ascribing something to incompetence when the person who screwed up stands to gain by their own failure. People tend to be remarkably competent when their own wealth is at stake, and less so when it's someone else's. Have you ever loaned a fragile object like an MP3 player to someone and gotten it back with scratch marks all over the surface?

    The guard who "Ooops!!!" happens to be in the bathroom when a thief sneaks in to rob his employer blind, and then "what a coincidence!!!" happens to be seen with the thief later trading $20 bills over a "gambling debt" of some kind may be an unlucky and incompetent employee, or he may be a very successful crook.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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