Thread: The meaning of the constitution of "The United States of America" ?

Many American republicans say, the constitution of "The United States of America", justifys (or) calls for, America's government to (not) be responsible for helping poor Americans or un-lucky Americans.



The following is the preamble to America's constitution. Preamble means, an introduction, that states a constitutions reason and purpose.


"we the people of the united states, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our prosperity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the united states of america."



The following, is the way I (personally) understand and see, the meaning to each of the preambles sentences.



we the people of the united states ---- (americas highest, in office government officials wrote this.) These first words of our constitution make me think this, (our government is us.)



To (me) the sentence's that come after the above, are what Americas highest government officials (the writers of the US constitution), wanted to make sure all americans had.


And (I) don't think they just wanted government officials to do these things, but (all) americans as well.




to form a more perfect union --- to me this means, they wanted to come together perfectly, or they wanted to live in a perfect country.



establish justice --- to me this means, they wanted to make righteousness, be in control of (all) of america.



insure domestic tranquillity --- to me this means, they wanted to insure all american homes were calm and happy.



(definition) welfare- the state of being or doing well, condition of health, happiness and confort, well being prosperity.



promote the general welfare --- to me this means (the writers of the constitution) wanted to promote all americans being and doing well, they wanted to promote all americans good health, they wanted to promote all americans happiness and confort, and they wanted to promote all americans prosperity.



DOES THE US CONSTITUTIONS PREAMBLE,


MAKE (YOU) FEEL, THAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS, DID (NOT) WANT THE US GOVERNMENT, TO HELP POOR AMERICANS OR UN-LUCKY AMERICANS ?

You've set up a false argument here. I doubt any of the framers of the Constitution would have denied the purpose was the create a system which helped poor or unlucky Americans. The debate is about how.

"Promote general welfare," for example did not mean give money from the federal government directly to poor and unlucky people-- it meant create a system of laws which helps poor and unlucky.

They weren't after a perfect country--there were after a "more perfect" one--there's a big difference as well as deliberately left general enough to be interpreted by future generations as society changed.

It's about how laws will be made, not what laws.

However, that this document boasts promotion of the general welfare as one of its purposes, and then perfectly neglects the issue, suggests that perhaps was hot air for a lofty introduction.

"Promote general welfare," for example did not mean give money from the federal government directly to poor and unlucky people-- it meant create a system of laws which helps poor and unlucky.





Since we are in the politics section,


You (appear) to consede, that the writers of our constitution, wanted our government to create laws, that helped the poor and un-lucky.

But today in america, the republican party has totally forgotton, neglected, and disobeyed this, when they create our laws.

Republican laws, only take money away from poor and un-lucky americans, their laws do not help them, as you appear to consede our constitution states americas laws should.


republicans are against min. wage (laws), that help poor americans live better
republicans are against (laws), that would help american familys keep their homes in bad times
they are against (laws) for long un-employment benifits, that help out of work familys
they are against medicaid (laws) for poor americans, that give poor americans medical care
they are against health insurance (laws), that give un-lucky americans health insurance
they are against (laws) that would give poor working americans tax cuts, so poor working americans could live better
they are against poor peoples classaction lawsuit (laws), so poor americans can sue in americas courts
they are against the poor americans bankrupcy (laws), that help poor american familys in bad times.
ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex.

(basicly republicans are against any (law) that helps the poor)


I can (kinda) see the way you think, and I think if (you) were writing americas laws, (you) would create laws that followed our constitution.

But your corrupt, corporate (worker) republican politicians do not do this.





In you, and most of americas republicans (who dont have $20 million in the bank, from doing corporate favors)


I can see your honesty, charity, work ethic, care for your comunity, love of your country, love of your famillys, and love and respect for your fellow americans.


But your political party, does not share your american and human values.


There are only about 10? honest republicans (like you) in all of washington, the rest of them have millions of dollars in their bank account, that they got from lieing to you. These republican politicians have told you, and made you all believe 1,000's of lies.


And its a sin, (and I cant see it everyday), but all of you non-corporate, non-corupt republicans, are 1000x better than your political party.


regular everyday republicans like yourself, are not actually American republicans, you are (conservitive) human beings.

republicans are against min. wage (laws), that help poor americans live better
republicans are against (laws), that would help american familys keep their homes in bad times
they are against (laws) for long un-employment benifits, that help out of work familys
they are against medicaid (laws) for poor americans, that give poor americans medical care
they are against health insurance (laws), that give un-lucky americans health insurance
they are against (laws) that would give poor working americans tax cuts, so poor working americans could live better
they are against poor peoples classaction lawsuit (laws), so poor americans can sue in americas courts
they are against the poor americans bankrupcy (laws), that help poor american familys in bad times.
ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex. ex.

W
Well I'm against many of them as well...because as they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. For example, laws to make it easier for poor to own homes, which translate into forcing banks to finance risky uncredit worthy people who end up 1) defaulting (be surprise!) and 2) inflating the entire market which in reality makes it more difficult for the poor to find housing.
And poor working more tax cuts....why? Everyone deserves some skin in the game--the poor already get huge breaks and are a net gain on the system by a huge margin.
I'm opposed to continuing unemployment insurance. It's a local and state issue...sure as hell not a federal one.
I'm a full supporter of government backed health insurance and even think there should be a public option, which based on other nations experiences, is the only one that actually reduces cost.

As for your casting republicans are richer on the hill...that's simply not true, and most of the republicans earner their wealth.
Democrats In Congress Are Richer Than Republicans
The same is true of the party populations as well...the Dems are richer though not by much.

I don't think you'd find much to support you contention that Reps are more corrupt either. Please show us something to back that up.

And poor working more tax cuts... why ?



Its actually benificial to the US economy to give poor people tax cuts, (Warren Buffet said the following.)

The rich put their tax cut in the bank or build factories in China. And this does nothing to help americas economy.

But when you give the poor tax cuts they spend the money instantly and spend it in america. They use tax cut money at Disney world, movie theaters, resturants, used car dealerships ex. ex.


The best way to stimulate the economy is to give the poor tax cuts, this money fully gets into the US economy and helps (every one) in america.




Heres lots of evidence to show republicans are more corrupt than democrats.

I can show you 1,000's of (scientific, economic) lies said by the republicans,

But you cant show me even (1) simular lie said by the democrats





examples,


The republicans in washington say 1,000's of lies like the following

tax cuts increase revenues
high min wage laws hurt the poor
global warming is not happening

there are 100's more republican lies like these.


Can you even list (1) simular lie said by a democrat ?

Chad,
Here is just one ( lie ) from your top guy Obama, and there are plenty more.

DEMOCRATS DEBATE - OBAMA FLAT CAUGHT LYING - YouTube

Chad,
That's not corruption. And the Dems believe and tell lots of falsehoods as well, some of which you've echoed such as the rich don't pay taxes (when they pay almost all of them), GW stole the 2000 election and there are many more. Most them aren't lies either if the people telling them actually believe them, which is probably the truth. Not all things false are lies. None of them are signs of corruption.

its not coruption when Exxon mobile told GW Bush to tell america "global warming is not happening" and he said it on tv ?


its not coruption when GW Bushs white house told lies to get us to Iraq?

and its ok when W Bush lied and told you saddam had something to do with sept 11 (when he did not), when in fact sadam had orders out to killl all quada, and Saddam was trying to kill Al Qaeda years before sept 11.

GW Bush attacked Iraq in the name of killing Al Qaeda, when Saddam was trying to kill Al Qaeda personally for years before sept 11, but this is ok ?

and its ok that 1000s of US soldiers dont have arms or legs b/c of Bushs lies ?

its ok 100,000 innocent Iraqis will killed for nothing ?

it ok that we spent 1 trillion in iraq in the name of killing all quada, when sadam was trying to do that himself.


Its ok reagans tax cuts built on those US factories in china ?

its ok reagan took carters surpluses and turned them to debt ?

its ok Bush made clintons surpluses disapear ?

and its ok Bushs tax cuts built all the US customer service centers in India ?

and its ok that if reagan and GW Bush, were never ellected our debt would be bellow 50% gdp, and now because of republicans its 100% to gdp now but this is ok ?


WHAT IS NOT OK ???


And about taxes,

Warren Buffets tax rate is 17%
people who make $60,000 a year have a 30% rate

(americans who make $60,000 a year are the people who pay the BIG taxes.)

I have a few lies (out of the 1000s) said by the republicans (that involve science, economics, and non-sexual matters) I will list 10 publicly said republican lies In writing.

we will see if you can list (1) democrat lie, in writing, that involves science or economics.


1. tax cuts increase govt revenues
2. tax cuts for the rich create jobs (that are not in china or India)
3. Clinton wants to punish the rich
4. minimum wage laws hurt the poor
5. global warming is not happening
6. barrack obama is not a us citezen
7. al gore said he invented the internet
8. sadam had something to do with sept 11
9. barrack obama is a secret muslim
10. large corporations are forced to pay too much taxes, note GE pays 0% in taxes


I got 10 on the board can you write (1) ?

I will be able to list 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000x more documented lies said by the republicans, than you can list about the democrats.


Can you list one ??

I am sorry for my rude tone.

I am very very sorry for my remarks about US soldiers (but it is true)


I AM SORRY !!!

To be honest, I don't think GW ever lied to the American people--not a single time. His beliefs were just more often driven by his views of the world and overconfidence in some of his advisers than by facts.

Chad,
Have a read of this book if you can, it is called The Cure For Poverty. " It's the free market, stupid "

The Cure for Poverty by Herb Meyer

Ex-Democratic Party official jailed for fake Tea Party scheme

The dude was jailed for electoral fraud, so he must have lied somewhere along the line

[h=1]Ex-Democratic Party official jailed for fake Tea Party scheme[/h]

JANUARY 11, 2012 AT 2:17 PM
Ex-Democratic Party official jailed for fake Tea Party scheme
BY MIKE MARTINDALE THE DETROIT NEWS


Pontiac— The former political director of the Oakland County Democratic Party was sentenced Wednesday to 30 days in jail for his role in putting bogus candidates on the ballot in 2010 under the banner of a fake Tea Party.

Jason Bauer, 28, was sentenced by Oakland Circuit Judge James Alexander to the jail time, one year's probation and more than $2,500 in fines and costs. Bauer had pleaded no contest to five counts of fraud for creating the fake political party to confuse voters and manipulate the 2010 election.

Bauer and Michael McGuinness, former county party chairman, were both charged in a scheme in which fake candidates were added to the ballot in an effort to sway votes away from legitimate candidates for local and state offices.

McGuinness was sentenced last month to one year's probation and court costs and fines for his role in the scheme.

more...
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...a-Party-scheme

((( This is about lies said outloud to americas public. ))))

Look at my post above, and note I listed 10 rep. lies said to the public, they are explained cleary, and numbered.

Notice how I listed them in a simple organized way.

(and you still have not listed a single one)

I will list more publicly said republican lies, in a simple scientific and numbered format.


11. socialism always leads to comunism - sweeden, iceland, and norway are not heading to communism
12. the democrats are the big spenders (carter and clinton had surpluses, Reagan and GW Bush turned them to deficits)
13. Obama hates white people (his mother was white, and he worships her)
14. the death tax effects all americans (reality it only effects 2% of america)
15. american corporations are forced pay higher taxes than other countrys (the usa has the 2nd lowest ACTUALL corp tax rate % in the world)


I have 15 publicly stated republican lies on the board, (you dont have a single democrat lie listed)

use a scientific format , and list democrat lies that were said to the american public


you are loosing 15 to 0.





chad - 15 points
dave - 0 points

Dave I wanted to make this contest, a bit more interesting.

You may enlist the help of every republican that uses this forum, I will take on all republicans that use this forum, by myself alone, in this contest.

the following is my 16th republican lie that was/is said in public.


16. the rep. phrase "the liberals are lieing" - reality "the republicans are lieing" I (alone) will annihilate (all) the republicans in this forum, in this contest of what political party publicly says the most lies.



chad (on the side of the democrats) - 16 points

100% of the republicans who use this forum - 0 points


( MAY THE MOST HONEST AND TRUTHFUL POLITICAL PARTY WIN THIS CONTEST.)

In the future I (alone) would like to chalange, 100% of the republicans who use this forum, in the following, democrats vs. republicans (scientific) contests.



1. who creates the largest deficits ?
2. who creates the most national debt ?
3. who truely represents Jesus Christ ?
4. who follows the constitution the best ?
5. who finainced the building of the most US factories in China and India ?
6. who believes the most lies ?
7. (for the men) "who respects the rights/freedom, and the welfare of women and children the most" ?
8. what partys presidents ((elected in washinton!!!)) have the highest IQs ?
9. who actually spends the most money ? (with rep. military spending, money added to n. debt, and corp. givaways, you republicans will loose this contest as well.)



(MAY THE CORRECT POLITICAL PARTY, WIN EACH CONTEST)

Originally Posted by chad

((( This is about lies said outloud to americas public. ))))

Look at my post above, and note I listed 10, of the 1000's of republican lies I know about.

Notice how I listed them in a simple organized way.

(and you still have not listed a single one)

I will list more publicly said republican lies, in a simple scientific format.


11. socialism always leads to comunism - sweeden, iceland, and norway are not heading to communism
12. the democrats are the big spenders (carter and clinton had surpluses, Reagan and GW Bush turned them to deficits)
13. Obama hates white people (his mother was white, and he worships her)
14. the death tax effects all americans (reality it only effects 2% of america)
15. american corporations are forced pay higher taxes than other countrys (the usa has the 2nd lowest ACTUALL corp tax rate % in the world)


I have 15 publicly stated republican lies on the board, (you dont have a single democrat lie listed)

use a scientific format , and list democrat lies that were said to the american public


you are loosing 15 to 0.





chad - 15 points
dave - 0 points

The United States Federal Government IS empowered by the Constitution to PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE of ALL its citizens. No limitation is imposed upon said government by this document to achieve its assignments. So far, with limited exceptions, this government has done a poor job of accomplishing its admittedly challenging tasks.

The political class in the USA, regardless of trivial party affiliation, is an insular, privileged class woefully out of touch with the national population at large.

What are you going to do about it?

Dave I apologize, for my rudeness, showboating, and un-sportsman like conduct.
Lynx_ Fox I apologize for my rudeness, I am sorry.

I am sorry.

Dave,

When you are on a computer, I quess you can run your mouth, in a way you cant do in public.

person to person, I am sorry.

Originally Posted by chad

Dave,

When you are on a computer, I quess you can run your mouth, in a way you cant do in public.

person to person, I am sorry.

Hey, no probs dude.
Back to business, you say many things but never give a supporting link.

Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox

To be honest, I don't think GW ever lied to the American people--not a single time. His beliefs were just more often driven by his views of the world and overconfidence in some of his advisers than by facts.

Yeah. His advisers essentially used him as a proxy by which to tell their own lies. It's one reason why we should never put a dumb person in that office. There's no way to trace accountability back to the people who really did intentionally deceive or misrepresent things. In this case, matters essential to our nation's national security - which would either border on or outright cross the line to full on treason if we could tell who originated them. Theoretically GW is "accountable" for not having the sense to disbelieve them, but you can't send a man to prison for being stupid. It's just better not to put people in office who lack the mental gifts to be able to bear that accountability properly.

Originally Posted by chad

Since we are in the politics section,


You (appear) to consede, that the writers of our constitution, wanted our government to create laws, that helped the poor and un-lucky.

But today in america, the republican party has totally forgotton, neglected, and disobeyed this, when they create our laws.

Republican laws, only take money away from poor and un-lucky americans, their laws do not help them, as you appear to consede our constitution states americas laws should.

They take money away from themselves too, by their foolishness. I think the driving force is not so much people who are already rich, but poor people who are greedy to become so. They don't want to close the loopholes because they believe that at their level of competency, cheating is probably the only way they'll ever win. So they're happy to see others cheat and get away with it.

I'm sure most of them hope they'll be the one who next has the opportunity to do something underhanded for a corporate interest and get paid a fortune for their efforts. It's exactly that kind of greed that makes people foolish, arrogant, and otherwise prone to make dumb decisions or vote for dumb economic decisions. The republican side has a lot of these people in their ranks, and I don't see any way of fixing the problem.

Dave,

republicans say the following things in public, (they are all un-true and lies.) Next to each lie, I wrote proof it is a lie.



1. tax cuts increase govt revenues- a lie b/c, all respected economist say its a lie. Even all of GW Bushs economists write in their books its a lie

2. tax cuts for the rich create jobs in america,-- a lie b/c small bussiness and family bussiness create 95%??-100% of the new jobs in america.

3. Clinton wants to punish the rich -- a lie b/c clinton is rich, does he want to punish himself ??

4. minimum wage laws hurt the poor-- a lie b/c economists say this is not true

5. global warming is not happening-- a lie b/c 97% of climate scientists say it is

6. barrack obama is not a us citezen -- a lie b/c he is

7. al gore said he invented the internet-- a lie b/c the actual inventer of the internet said "there would be no internet without al gore, he made the law that created it" the man who invented the internet said al gore said nothing untrue


8. sadam had something to do with sept 11 - its a LIE b/c no government agency on all of earth ever said this,

9. barrack obama is a secret muslim -- a lie b/c the man goes to a church of jesus more than most of you, HE IS A CHRISTIAN AND SQUARE and FAMILY MAN

10. large corporations are forced to pay too much taxes-- a lie b/c GE and many other huge corporations pay 0% in federal taxes and get billions in refunds

11. socialism always leads to comunism - a lie b/c sweeden, iceland, and norway are socialist, do (you) think they are heading to communism

12. the democrats are the big spenders-- a lie b/c (carter and clinton had surpluses, and Reagan and GW Bush turned them to deficits)

13. Obama hates white people-- a lie b/c (his mother was white, and he worships her)

14. the death tax effects all americans-- a lie b/c (in reality it only effects 2% of america)

15. american corporations are forced pay higher taxes than other countrys-- a lie b/c the usa has the 2nd lowest ACTUALL corp tax rate % in the world)

16. socialism never works -- a lie b/c sweeden, norway, Iceland, and finland are socialist countrys. They have a higher standard of living than america, scientists say they are happyer than americans , and they have lower national debts and deficits. Socilists countrys in europe out perform and beat america in (every) way.

17. the rep. phrase "the liberals are lieing" (this is a fantasy world lie), b/c I have (17) publicly stated republican lies on this page, with evidence they are lies.

And you republicans only know of (one) liberal lie, that you can state in this format.



To be honest, I WANT TO DRAW YOU INTO THIS, BUT I WILL BE UP-FRONT, I COULD LIST OVER A (1,000) PUBLICLY STATED REPUBLICAN LIES ON THIS PAGE.

AND EVERY REPUBLICAN IN THIS FORUM COULD ONLY LIST (1) DEMOCRAT LIE (at this moment)

Chad,
How about this very well known lie.

I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.--Bill Clinton

Lie of the year 2011.

PolitiFact | Lie of the Year 2011: 'Republicans voted to end Medicare'

Republican lie about economics, science, health care, taxes, abortion. religion, John Kerry, Barack Obama, Iraq and sex.

Democrats lie about sex.

Ha, nice one.