Notices
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: The ancestors of the Jews.

  1. #1 The ancestors of the Jews. 
    Forum Masters Degree
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    New Jersey USA
    Posts
    638
    Where did the ancestors of the Jews come from. I believe they traveled from Canaan to Egypt to the Middle East. Is this right?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,148
    As a side note, Race is an arbitrary generalization and to some extent ethnicity is arbitrary from one perspective.

    Note that the eastern Mediterranean region is the crossroads for 3 continents, many empires that have spawned nearby have crossed thru the region during their expansion phase, populations have traveled split and merged numerous times every which way, rulers have been replaced by those of the new empire or faction, etc. This goes for most european nations too btw, which are an arbitray blend of people partially different within and similar to others outside an arbitrary boarder from the perspective of an arbitrary time frame. (imo, saying a white blue eyed person came from that part of the world because hes of a religion that started there makes as much sense as a blue eyed European thats a devout Buddhist claiming hes from Tibet and should retrun there and boot-out whoever happens to live there).


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    To be fair, Jewish is a self-identifying race. By which I mean Jews are Jews only because they are considered to be so by other Jews. That's an easy line to draw and not have to worry that you'll ever be wrong. As far as the blood lineage question, that's just thoroughly convoluted at this point. Right now if I understand correctly, you are considered to be a Jew if your mother is a Jew. However, in the bible's story/legend of how Judaism supposedly started, the sole basis of membership in the family of Israel was originally to have an Israeli father. Your mother's lineage mattered not at all. The twelve sons of Israel/Jacob all had to marry non-Israelite wives. Joseph married a woman from Egypt, and the sons of that marriage became the fathers of the tribes of Ephraim and Manassa. I'm not sure where the others found their wives. And when Pharaoh decided to try and eradicate the Jews in Egypt, he did so by instructing the midwives to kill all the sons, but spare the daughters, presumably because the daughters did not carry the lineage.

    To answer the OP: The bible story/legend says Israel/Jacob (two names for the same guy) had twelve sons and lived somewhere in the lands of Canaan (wherever that is), but the family moved to Egypt during Jacob/Israel's lifetime, so you could accurately say Israel's existence as a nation/ethnicity began in Egypt. Then they left Egypt and moved to more or less where they live now, but got pushed out of the area twice. Once by the Babylonian empire, and once by Rome.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,306
    And when Pharaoh decided to try and eradicate the Jews in Egypt
    That entire story is unsupported by credible evidence. And given the scale of the exodus in one of the most combed over and thoroughly researched part of the word by archaeologist, there should be tons of it.
    It was more likely either grossly exaggerated recollection of a tiny group or entirely made-up story to legitimize claim on the land afterwards.

    There's a surprising amount of what appears to be credible scientific literature about the genetic of jews--giving the impression that at least among their main groups they could be considered distinct groups of people.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    It's an ethnicity based on collective belief in a common origin legend. The truth or falsehood of the legend is important, but not for the purposes of determining whether they count as a valid ethnic grouping. It probably is false, but so are the origin legends of a good many indigenous tribes around the world. If it's true, then it's kind of a slander against Egypt and some others, so definitely is a good thing for archaeologists to keep digging to dispel it where it goes wrong.

    I somehow suspect their scholars stretched the truth a bit during the "Babylonian Captivity" to give themselves an inflated claim on the region around the time Cyrus was deciding to send them to settle there, so he would have a better sounding basis to justify giving them that territory. In reality, they served nicely as a buffer to prevent invasion by Egypt, because they'd necessarily have to fight the Jews before they could make a move on Persia. Like any good politician, I'm sure Cyrus didn't check their sources before deciding to believe them.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,306
    "It probably is false, but so are the origin legends of a good many indigenous tribes around the world. If it's true, then it's kind of a slander against Egypt and some others, so definitely is a good thing for archaeologists to keep digging to dispel it where it goes wrong. "

    Agreed with you summation; archeologist have already done that--the parts about Egypt didn't happen anything like the stories.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Geometric expansion of ancestors?
    By icewendigo in forum Biology
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: March 8th, 2010, 07:17 PM
  2. Killing jews?
    By Faron in forum History
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: May 1st, 2009, 12:32 PM
  3. christians, muslims? both jews imo.
    By dejawolf in forum Scientific Study of Religion
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: April 23rd, 2009, 09:03 AM
  4. Question About Our Ancestors
    By gottspieler in forum Biology
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: February 20th, 2009, 12:38 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •