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Thread: Ken's off topic post from solar/wind/nuclear thread

  1. #1 Ken's off topic post from solar/wind/nuclear thread 
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    Skeptic @129 - don't be surprised if distrust of nuclear does influence parts of the Right's position too, but blaming Greenies for it or for the Right's unwillingness to fight the good fight on behalf of nuclear? And backing down when faced with a looming global climate catastrophe that the Right claim can only be solved with nuclear? I'm dubious about that. No, I think it's simply that anti-nuclear activism has operated in the absence of any real opposition, even from the Right who express enthusiasm for nuclear.

    It may seem I am implying malice in this from the Right but I am not.

    Greed and fear, not stupidity or malice are the true failings that have landed us collectively into this mess. Well, some stupidity and gullibility. And maybe a bit of hubris as well. Selfishness, shortsightedness... But mostly fear and greed.

    Greed? Because the projected future earnings of coal and oil and gas and unconventionals like tar sands and coal seam gas are at stake and the fossil fuel companies, the banks that bankroll them and the investors who look to profit from the windfall, and governments who've become accustomed to it boosting the budget bottom line will put commercial considerations ahead of the global need to secure a benign climate for our descendants.

    Fear? Fear has been the big motivator that has brought the rest into line, driving most of the rest of commerce and industry and of the community at large to fear lost prosperity and lost comfort and security and to fear the disruption and the uncertainty that comes with such a big change.

    These motivations, genuine and sincere as they are, tell us nothing about the truth of the climate problem or how to fix it, only about the strength of widespread perceptions of how hard and expensive real action might be. (insert rant about how badly the media has let us all down in regard to community perceptions.)

    For our forebears, an all or nothing effort for the future of our descendents was less to be feared than the ignomy of giving up and leaving our fate up to the vagaries of chance and to forces that don't figure what happens to our families in their plans at all. Too hard? Nonsense! We aren't doing what's necessary because we lack sufficient motivation and climate change denialism is a bigger contributor to that than most people can accept.

    I suggest again that trying to challenge and change the green-left's position on nuclear is a less effective means to get a bipartisan approach to the climate problem. And that forcing the Right to give up BS and base their position on science based reality will be more effective.

    If the Right can't defend fossil fuels any more where do you think they will turn? Renewables? Well, I'll bet that some will do that - green companies are still run by entrepreneurs and they do share many interests with the rest of commerce which the political right are voice for. But most of commerce and industry, especially energy intensive, will want nuclear. The Right, that stabbed nuclear in the back will be knocking at nuclear's door like there was never a bad moment between them.

    I think they still should not be trusted; to do what they've been doing, to try and gag and discredit the scientists and citizens shouting warning about the impending climate tsunami because it's inconvenient and disruptive to business is unforgivable.


    Last edited by Ken Fabos; November 25th, 2011 at 02:46 AM. Reason: Forgot html doesn't work here
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  3. #2  
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    The missing post returns! Except it is not in the same thread as the other moved posts. But the civil back and forth that included myself, Lynx Fox, Sceptic, Kojax, Bunbury, Harold 14370 and The Finger Prince is both derailed and fragmented, probably beyond repair.

    I thought that my posts had actually caused some of them to reconsider their own positions - surely a rare occurrence in these debates. To be moderated just when things were getting interesting by a moderator who participated in the debate and who strongly disagreed with me reeks of, dare I say it, politics.

    Anyone reading this here in Politics will be forced to refer back to solar-wind-vs-nuclear-who-will-win in Environmental Issues to get the context. I urge readers to do so, however I do not wish to continue the debate here or be forced to start another thread.


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    Ken, you were permitted to make all those points, repeatedly, on the solar/wind/nuclear thread. It is only after you repeatedly belabored the same points that I decided enough was enough. You have never made a connection between your concern about global warming, and the choice between solar, wind and nuclear. Maybe you would like to take one more shot at it. Walk me through the logic.
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  5. #4  
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    Harold, meet me around the back - in Feedback, since you say that's where this belongs. I've got no response, even acknowledgement from the Webmaster so I'm forced to put my case to the Forum at large.
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  6. #5  
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    How's that workin' for ya, Ken Fabos?
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
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