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Thread: Communism.

  1. #1 Communism. 
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    Could somebody explain communism to me?


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  3. #2  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
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    Let me google that for you


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  4. #3  
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    Noun: communism 'kóm-yu,ni-zum

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    http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?w=communism

    With all due respect inow, if everyone googled for information and studied maybe the first 1,000 links, they might still come away with the same basic questions. There are so many books, articles explaining the simple definition it confound me why anyone tries. On top of that sometimes posters might be looking for "common folks" thoughts or have some ideas that might be acceptable to others and as you know, "Communism" has often lead to active threads.

    mmatt, basically the dictionary definition does explain what communism is to you, but there are hundreds of variables involved or methods to achieve that form of government, the evolution to, in some society and this might be futile, without a little more information on what you want explained.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33 View Post
     
    Noun: communism 'kóm-yu,ni-zum

    A
    http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?w=communism

    With all due respect inow, if everyone googled for information and studied maybe the first 1,000 links, they might still come away with the same basic questions. There are so many books, articles explaining the simple definition it confound me why anyone tries. On top of that sometimes posters might be looking for "common folks" thoughts or have some ideas that might be acceptable to others and as you know, "Communism" has often lead to active threads.

    mmatt, basically the dictionary definition does explain what communism is to you, but there are hundreds of variables involved or methods to achieve that form of government, the evolution to, in some society and this might be futile, without a little more information on what you want explained.
    Tell me about the history of Communism in China. How does it work today in the government and society.
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    mmatt; Noting that pure anything has never existed, communism and capitalism being opposite forms of an economical system with in a type of Government, in this case Socialism/Democracy, China has simply moved to a controlled style of a capitalist economy. To contrast this Europe over the past 50 years has been increasing regulation on Capitalism, while remaining Democratic, earning the title "European Form of Socialism", the US not far behind.
     
    In fact, visit China today and you find the most dynamic capitalist nation in the world. In 2005, it had the distinction of being the worlds fastest-growing major economy.

    China is the manufacturing hub of the globe. Its is also moving quickly into the highest of high technologies. It already graduates more computer engineers every year than the United States.

    http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0110-42.htm

     
    If the above link doesn't answer you specific questions fire away, but I believe your confusion lies in economy and whom/what controls it, Government or the people (consumer/share holder/owners).
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    Communism is a wonderfully optimistic doctrine that presupposes it will be followed perfectly, but without proposing any kind of workable mechanism by which that perfect cooperation can be realized. The closest you get is excessive police brutality directed against free thinkers, .... who themselves are supposed to be allowed to say whatever they want after the "revolution" is complete, but are fair game for beatings during the "transitional" period where the nation will be run by a totalitarian regime dedicated to shaping the people into the proper image. The final result is supposed to be an anarchy, full of people who are capable of governing themselves without a police force. However, this totalitarian regime is given no incentive whatsoever to actually do its job and work toward making itself obsolete, rather than just run amok. And, I think that, given the privileges that come with membership in the regime, the people in it would probably rather perpetuate the status quo (the transitional period) until the end of time.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33 View Post
     
    mmatt; Noting that pure anything has never existed, communism and capitalism being opposite forms of an economical system with in a type of Government, in this case Socialism/Democracy, China has simply moved to a controlled style of a capitalist economy. To contrast this Europe over the past 50 years has been increasing regulation on Capitalism, while remaining Democratic, earning the title "European Form of Socialism", the US not far behind.
     
    In fact, visit China today and you find the most dynamic capitalist nation in the world. In 2005, it had the distinction of being the worlds fastest-growing major economy.

    China is the manufacturing hub of the globe. Its is also moving quickly into the highest of high technologies. It already graduates more computer engineers every year than the United States.

    http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0110-42.htm

     
    If the above link doesn't answer you specific questions fire away, but I believe your confusion lies in economy and whom/what controls it, Government or the people (consumer/share holder/owners).
    So who runs the Communist government today in China? The rich or the people? I read that Mao would turn in his grave so I am assuming the rich.
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    What I am really interested in is the Cultural Revolution in China. What were the communists arguments against landlords and other counterrevolutionaries.
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  10. #9  
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    You have a ton of questions here. I would recommend Jonathan Spence. Honestly. Read some stuff on these topics and then bring more specific questions about things you don't understand.

    China is not communism. The cultural revolutions that China has gone through in the last century and a half are more about culture and not politics (hence cultural, not political). Basically big fat white men came and screwed China over so they could have there tea. This continued and China decided that it's problem was that it's culture was inferior to the West. The assumption being that if people are taking advantage of you it is your culture that is backwards. So, they said toss our culture in the trash and start building things. So now China (as if China has ever been a single thing) is the culture-less attempt at "modernization" (which really means Westernization). If this sounds rough it's because I want it to. Imagine Obama making a speech saying that Chinese people are better than you and it's because you like things like cowboys and hippies. If you just throw away your cowboys and hippies and start making things out of concrete and LEDs then you will be a better person, and a better nation. Here's a classic example of what happens when you throw all your culture and history out the window for logical modernization. Sparrows are these little pesky birds that eat our crops, we should kill them all. Oh, what do you know? Sparrows actually keep insects from eating our crops and now we're all starving.

    Ha, I'm being terribly mean, sarcastic and imprecise. China is cool, but, like all of us, it has some serious issues.
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    There are some slight errors in the previous post that I take issue with.

    First of all, people here are exclusively discussing Marxist ideas of communism, but communism as an idea predates Marx. Communism is any form of government that does away with property and capital.

    Marx's ideas are a theory of history and economics. Marx believed that history was following a trajectory from feudalism to mercantilism to capitalism to socialism and finally to communism, which Marx thought was the final point of societal development. Marx thought that a violent revolution which push capitalism into the socialist era, where a dictatorship of the proletariat would rule until a transition to communism would occur (Marx never specified how).

    Kojax seems to have been getting at Marxist-Leninism. This is what we generally refer to colloquially as Russian communism. Lenin took Marx's ideas and came up with the idea of forcing the revolution. What Lenin also added was the notion of the vanguard party, a ruling elite who had the knowledge and ability to carry the proletariat forward to communism, because the proletariat could not be capable of doing this on their own.

    Maoism is a form of Marxist-Leninism that employs the notion of the vanguard party that leads the people. One of Mao's major innovation was his focus on the peasantry as a member of the proletariat, since China was not an industrialized country.

    The Cultural Revolution as an event was a product of Mao's worry about losing power. He was worried about threats to his power and corruption within the party. Part of his concerns were valid, there was widespread corruption in the party and Mao was losing his hold somewhat. What Mao had that the other members of the party leadership lacked was a firm hold on the hearts and minds of the people. Mao bipassed the party and military structures and he turned to the youth with his orders to cleanse "bourgeois" elements from the party. What eventually happened, most agree, is that the red guard groups (formed from eager youth) got out of Mao's control. Eventually, Mao had them all rounded up and sent to farms to cool off.

    Understanding the course of Chinese communism (which actually was socialist under Mao) requires a lot of reading. One thing we should understand is that Mao was deeply beloved despite his failures with the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. He was a war hero who lead the Communist to victory against the Japanese, the Nationalist, and then eventually the Western powers in the Korean War. His dedication to medical reform increased life expectancies drastically, and he brought China into the 20th century. It's kind of difficult to judge him because he had undoubtedly killed a few million deliberately when consolidating his power, and then several more million through the disaster of the communal farms during the Great Leap Forward. However, his reforms have likely saved millions of lives and Mao's regime lifted some 300 million above the UN's poverty line. Few leaders have both improved so many lives while ending so many others.
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    I can tell you a brief history of China, from 19th centrury till recent year. I hope it can help you find what you want. Before 1840, China had been the richest country in the world for at least one thousand years. In the 11th centrury, the GDP of China was 75-80%; of the whole world's. In 1785, China made 35% of the world's money while the whole Europe made 23%. At that time, Chinese emperors and lords believed their country was the centre of the world. Their wealth came from the inside of the country, so what they needed was to control the nation by military force and sometimes trade with the outside to make more silver. Western merchants needed Chinese goods; they made great profits by trading them. China opened only one port for Europeans, who opened the gate of China through several wars afterwards. Chinese scholars and officials started to think why they lost the wars and to make some changes to turn the tide. In 1860s, Chinese officials started a movement, the main point of which was to learn western military technology rather than the regime. In 1895, China lost the war against Japan. Chinese elites started knowing that a good regime was more important than just military technology. A reform under the support of the emperor Guangxu was led by Kang and Liang in 1898. They learned from England the constitutional monarchy. At that time, the Empress Dowager was actually in power. The emperor hoped to reseize the power from her through this reform. Unfortunately, they lost. Six of the followers of Kang and Liang were killed and Guangxu was held in captivity. Kang and Liang escaped to Japan where many Chinese student studied at that time. Kang, Liang and those students were affected by Japanese view point on China. They believed their failure should be attributed to the poor culture of China and the low inner quality of Chinese people. As I can see, they failed because their reform was not well planned and ruined most people's benefits, therefore the majority were against them. These scholars came back to China and started a cultural movement called New Culture Movement after 1919. They wanted to change the inner society of Chinese people. That was the actual start point of commusim in China and the Cultural Revolution. The reason behind it was China built a society based on morality in ancient times. People's behavior was restrained. Those who broke the rules were to blame and punish. Japan learned that from China and affected China after its success of reform.
    The Communist Party of China experienced great challenge after it foundation. It was almost perished in 1930s. It learned how to seize the power and how to defeat its rival through tens of years of struggle. After it won the Civil War, its power was centralized. It didn't plan to release the power, however, the leaders wanted to make the officials qualified, not seeking fame and wealth, which was actually impossible. After the Cultural Revolution, China knew what to do. Still China has many problems. It is changing better.
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  13. #12  
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    It sounds like China fell prey to a problem that plagues many states that do very well for themselves over a long period of time: complacency. Communism does have the one advantage that it forces rapid change. It's likely that Russia wouldn't have been a serious contender in World War II if not for the communist revolution putting them in a position to be able to modernize their military in the time frame they did it in. I can just imagine a bunch of Cossacks riding into battle on horseback to fight German tanks. It wouldn't have been pretty.

    If we look at their levels of economic growth over the last couple of decades, China might even be ahead of the game now. Perhaps it's the USA that's getting complacent now, and ready for a painful wake up call.
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