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Thread: "Nation Building" = Imposing Order?

  1. #1 "Nation Building" = Imposing Order? 
    Time Lord
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    Are we basically just trying to organize another society so that its people obey the same rules as our people obey?

    I had an econ professor from Mexico once, who kind of explained the way Americans look to a person coming from his background. We seem like a big collective machine, each person moving exactly in step with each other person. He said it was almost unthinkable to a Mexican immigrant that littering would carry a 500 dollar fine, even after they've been working in the USA long enough to afford it.

    I'm curious if something to do with this describes the way Afghans and Iraqis look at us as well. Under Sadaam, there was brutal oppression for anyone who disobeyed, but how many rules were there? Were there as many rules as we have in the USA, fewer rules, more rules? Do we look like the "Borg" from Star Trek, when people from other cultures look at us?


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    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    Under Sadaam, there was brutal oppression


    Dont act as if the US did not support Saddam, even after he used West provided chemicals to gas the Kurds. The US supports bloody dictators, death squads and repression, just ask people in South America, the we bring freedom routine aint working.

    (Banana Republic was coined from US corporate puppet dictators BTW)

    As M General Smedley Butler would say
    War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

    I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

    I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

    There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

    It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

    I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

    I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

    During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.


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  4. #3  
    Time Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo

    As M General Smedley Butler would say .....
    You really seem to be into this guy Smedley's outlook a lot. I notice you mention this from time to time. But, I think maybe you're not seeing the bigger picture. Why is war a racket? Where does the political machinery come from?

    Sure people are scared, but that only goes so far. In the middle East wars I think we all kind of know in the back of our minds that we need the oil. In South America, sometimes it's oil, but often its agricultural commodities. Sometimes it's been to stop a Communist government, and usually when one of those comes into power in South America they immediately decide to "nationalize" property that is owned by American investors. (We'll go to war with any country that tries to arbitrarily seize Americans' investments, communist ideology or not.)


    It's simpler to just say that the military is funded because it serves a purpose. If that makes it a "racket", then almost any business is a "racket". I think perhaps what offends your sensibilities is the idea of a government agency being used and/or manipulated by private interests, and perhaps using/manipulating them back. I'll admit that kind of worries me too. It happens in a lot of other areas of government as well, not just military.
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  5. #4 Re: "Nation Building" = Imposing Order? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Are we basically just trying to organize another society so that its people obey the same rules as our people obey?

    I had an econ professor from Mexico once, who kind of explained the way Americans look to a person coming from his background. We seem like a big collective machine, each person moving exactly in step with each other person. He said it was almost unthinkable to a Mexican immigrant that littering would carry a 500 dollar fine, even after they've been working in the USA long enough to afford it.

    I'm curious if something to do with this describes the way Afghans and Iraqis look at us as well. Under Sadaam, there was brutal oppression for anyone who disobeyed, but how many rules were there? Were there as many rules as we have in the USA, fewer rules, more rules? Do we look like the "Borg" from Star Trek, when people from other cultures look at us?
    Surely they see the US as the present-day soviets.
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