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Thread: Can Israel survive in the near future?

  1. #1 Can Israel survive in the near future? 
    Forum Junior newnothing's Avatar
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    Israel is a very controversial country if one look at its past and current affairs. With so many enemies and countries that are against them, I wonder if they will still exist in the near future.

    What is interesting is the willingness of immigrants from all over the world to leave their home and country where they were born in to create another life in the state of Israel. This unity and concerted effort by them (whether coordinated or not I don't know) is probably what held them together through the turbulent phase when Israel as a nation was just established. But now, with never ending wars with Palestine and growing anti-semitism around the world, will they still unite together to find a way to appease the world?

    This article on 'brotherly love' seems to say that only through unity, through a mutual guarantee will the Israel nation able to continue to exist.

    Maybe if they are able to achieve mutual guarantee can the wars stop?


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  3. #2  
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    By what means would the state cease to exist?


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  4. #3  
    Forum Masters Degree Numsgil's Avatar
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    The lasting peace between Egypt and Israel is a strong indication that lasting peace is possible in the region. However, if full scale war were to come, Isreal has a great deal of international backing, especially from the US. The US probably wouldn't send troops, but it definitely would send and has sent military supplies (tanks, planes, etc.) So if anything the real question should be if countries like Lebanon can survive.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Masters Degree samcdkey's Avatar
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    Israel has three choices in the next 50 years

    1. to become an apartheid binational state
    2. to become a state for all natives
    3. to be split into two states and fall into civil war.

    The 500,000 Jews on the illegal settlements will not be moving anywhere anytime soon. Their forced removal might even lead to mutiny in the IDF. If they cannot return the settlements the Israeli Jews will be forced to accept the Palestinians as citizens, which will bring up the role of Palestinian refugees who have been stateless since 1948. Which means a choice between considering the native Palestinians as a demographic threat or as human beings.

    The writing is on the wall, but no one can see it.
     

  6. #5  
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    4. Gradual genocide of the Palestinians.

    Sad as it may seem, that option is probably a lot more attractive to some Isrealis than the other three.

    5. "Convince" some neighboring country to absorb all the Palestinians as refugees.

    Whenever I talk with Isrealis, I get the impression that a lot of them have deluded themselves into thinking that this option is really a practical possibility.
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Masters Degree samcdkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    4. Gradual genocide of the Palestinians.

    Sad as it may seem, that option is probably a lot more attractive to some Isrealis than the other three.

    5. "Convince" some neighboring country to absorb all the Palestinians as refugees.

    Whenever I talk with Isrealis, I get the impression that a lot of them have deluded themselves into thinking that this option is really a practical possibility.
    That would still make them an apartheid state, unless they mean to sterilise all the Arabs inside Israel.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by samcdkey
    Israel has three choices in the next 50 years

    1. to become an apartheid binational state
    2. to become a state for all natives
    3. to be split into two states and fall into civil war.

    The 500,000 Jews on the illegal settlements will not be moving anywhere anytime soon. Their forced removal might even lead to mutiny in the IDF. If they cannot return the settlements the Israeli Jews will be forced to accept the Palestinians as citizens, which will bring up the role of Palestinian refugees who have been stateless since 1948. Which means a choice between considering the native Palestinians as a demographic threat or as human beings.

    The writing is on the wall, but no one can see it.
    #2 would be easy to achieve. All Israel would need to do is drop discriminatory policies against Arabs. It's not against Jewish law at all to have people from other cultures cohabitating in society. The laws on the books right now are simply there to protect Israel from attack, and could be abandoned without issue if the attacks were not a concern.
    A historical figure once said something that's extremely relevant to the current dialogue. If I knew who that was, or what they said, I'd probably quote them in this signature.
     

  9. #8  
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    The best solution for Israel is to JUNK their religion and transform themselves to a chunk of land (Israel) and modernize their language (Hebrew) and become a 'secular' state as the rest of the countries are.
    Their religion is dead anyway. Karl Marx (a born jew) labeled it as 'an opiate of the masses.
    And, since the jews have adopted the GUN and CANNON to save themselves, that proves that their religion is useless and a drug.

    Their YHWH (male seman) in this present era, is being flushed down the toilets in large numbers with the rest of the urine and excrement. So if their OT was true, there would be Adams rising in great numbers in the cesspools of waste.
    So their OT is a big lie as far as the creation of life is concerned.
    So if the Israelis would restore the dignity of Abram (Arab) and removed that label they tacked on to AbraHAM to establish that 'covenant' with YHWH, (another male?) than I am sure the Arabs would forgive the jews for this insult and the
    the jews can live as brothers (semites) and peace could then be had in the ME.

    Obama should put some pressure on the Israelis to dump their religion because our Constitution does not allow the endorsement of any religion and does not promote sexism and racism.

    But I do endore Israel as a secular state.

    Cosmo
     

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    ha ha ha ha ha ha thanks for the laugh cosmo.

    There option is to remain who they are, they do not have to change as they are God's chosen people and He protects them. {citation: 6 day war 1967}
     

  11. #10  
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    It gets really tiresome, though, what with everyone's religion telling them they are the chosen. The Isrealis are just an extremely over the top version of the worst things about most religions.

    Basically, what all the YHWH stuff does is save them to trouble of trying to deal fairly with other nations and cultures, because being gods "chosen people" apparently implies that you're the only people god ever gave any rights to.
     

  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    ha ha ha ha ha ha thanks for the laugh cosmo.

    There option is to remain who they are, they do not have to change as they are God's chosen people and He protects them. {citation: 6 day war 1967}
    Why didn't he protect them during the 'halocaust?

    Cosmo
     

  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo
    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    ha ha ha ha ha ha thanks for the laugh cosmo.

    There option is to remain who they are, they do not have to change as they are God's chosen people and He protects them. {citation: 6 day war 1967}
    Why didn't he protect them during the 'halocaust?

    Cosmo
    Because the Holocaust lead directly to the establishment of an Israeli state. Or perhaps because of the increasing secularism of the Jewish people. Similar to how ancient Israel and Judea were destroyed eventually because of they turned away from God.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo
    To All

    The best solution for Israel is to JUNK their religion and transform themselves to a chunk of land (Israel) and modernize their language (Hebrew) and become a 'secular' state as the rest of the countries are.
    Their religion is dead anyway. Karl Marx (a born jew) labeled it as 'an opiate of the masses.

    Cosmo
    Theodor Herzl had similar thoughts, being an atheist. You know Herzl right? The father of Zionism?

    You'll find the religious Jews here:

    http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

    So in my opinion, the best thing for Israel would be to go back to the Jews they were before the atheists brainwashed them into Zionism.
     

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    It gets really tiresome, though, what with everyone's religion telling them they are the chosen. The Isrealis are just an extremely over the top version of the worst things about most religions.
    where do you think the other religions copied it from? the reputation for being God's chosen people was well known in the ancient world and God's fame spread long before the israelites showed up to do battle.

    Such is a witness to the unbeliever.

    Because the Holocaust lead directly to the establishment of an Israeli state. Or perhaps because of the increasing secularism of the Jewish people. Similar to how ancient Israel and Judea were destroyed eventually because of they turned away from God.
    pobably as good an answer as i could give, though why would they be protected from suffering? people who hate God and Jesus, feel they cannot hurt them directly so they take their hatred out on those humans who follow them.

    God and Jesus never said we would be 100% protected from persecution. In fact Jesus warned us about how difficult it would be.
     

  16. #15  
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    I don't any real way they could be destroyed in the near term. They have sufficient military might now do defeat any comers even without the help they'd likely receive from the US. Even in the event of a catastrophic terrorist or single nuke attack, which I think might come, they'd still survive as a nation.

    As for their faith and government they already are one of the most secular nations on the planet.
     

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    The Old Testament is the religious doctrine of the jews that promotes their concept of being gods chosen people.
    Their YHWH is the male semon. This is ludicrous.
    This YHWH is supposed to have created the universe? This is DUMB.
    A 6000 year old universe? This is dumb.
    The physical representative of their egotistical chauvinism is the male lion.
    The male lion is the supreme killer in Africa. He is a bully that drives away any other lions that try tto set up shop in his territory. (this was from another poster that said so. I believe it because his nature was profiled on the Public Broadcasting System)
    I learned from my friends that he EATS his own sons. Wow. This was on PBS.
    His separation from the female with his mane (hair armor) portrays him as a chauvinist?
    This is where the jews portray the female as a sinner by eating a fruit from a tree, chauvinism?.
    This is where their racism is also applicable to the apes that eat the fruit from trees,

    So the OT promotes sexism and racism. EVIL!
    The concept of 'one ' god also comes from the 1st 3 commansments of the OT
    and was/is promoted by Mohammad and Joe Stalin as he portrayed himself.
    So these two evil enterprises plus judism are the result of the OT mentality of the jews . Also, the mass killing rituals for purification of their religioun originates in the OT. So since this is of biblical origin, I have renamed it as juwicides.

    So how in Gods name would any one want to be a jew?

    Cosmo
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Masters Degree samcdkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox

    As for their faith and government they already are one of the most secular nations on the planet.
    Surely you can't be that ignorant?

    In 1970 it was decided that in Israel religion and nationality are one and the same (that is why we are not listed in the Population Registry as Israelis, but as Jews). In 1992 it was determined in the Basic Law on Human Dignity and Liberty that Israel is a "Jewish state."

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1082174.html
    How is this secular?
     

  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologist
    It gets really tiresome, though, what with everyone's religion telling them they are the chosen. The Isrealis are just an extremely over the top version of the worst things about most religions.
    where do you think the other religions copied it from? the reputation for being God's chosen people was well known in the ancient world and God's fame spread long before the israelites showed up to do battle.

    Such is a witness to the unbeliever.
    Or.... so the Jewish record says. Bhaal and that fish god (Dagon?) had pretty large followings as well (even according to the Hebrew records), who probably also believed they were the chosen of their gods.

    I'll admit Judaism might have been the first to drive the concept so far over the top to where they identified more with their blood lineage than they did with their land territories. I would more accurately say that the Hebrews invented Monotheism as it's known today, complete with its unifying ability (within the group, but certainly not outside the group), and its ability to totally deny the divinity of other gods (where it seems like most ancient religions at least accepted the existence of the gods of other nations as possible).


    They certainly didn't invent religion itself, or the concept of being "chose" by a specific god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    I don't any real way they could be destroyed in the near term. They have sufficient military might now do defeat any comers even without the help they'd likely receive from the US. Even in the event of a catastrophic terrorist or single nuke attack, which I think might come, they'd still survive as a nation.
    I think it depends on how world opinion begins to see apartheid. South Africa also seemed pretty stable in its system for a long time, but it gave up the game. Do you think Isreal will be willing to do the same, if it starts to come under the spotlight? All their alliances could vanish overnight, if they're not careful.

    Maybe there are enough Jewish people in the world media that this problem/question will never be fully examined?
     

  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by samcdkey

    How is this secular?
    From their declaration of independence:


    "‘will be based on the principles of liberty, justice and peace as conceived by the Prophets of Israel; will uphold the full social and political equality of all its citizens, without distinction of religion, race, or sex; will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, education and culture; will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and will loyally uphold the principles of the United Nations Charter’. "
    How is that not a secular state?


    I would agree it is a complex issue though, since from my understanding they really have no formal constitution and the Knessets can appearently change laws easier than the Constitutional Western governments.

    Also more than half the country Identifies themselves as either secular or non-religious--compare that for example to the US.

    Their laws are not based in any religious texts either--another hallmark of a secular government.
     

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    The Future Of Israel Hopefully for the sake of The Palestinians is to have a peaceful 2 state solution or To have the Same history as South Africa Because its Apartheid over there and everyone knows it they are treating Palestinians like animals no rights for them what so ever they already caused a massacre in gaza what are they going to do next we will see or they will make peace with all arab countries and negotiate with them.
     

  22. #21  
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    You asked the wrong question.
    It is Palestine which needs more care.
     

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    According to the intelligence community's estimate, the threat from Lebanon and Syria is second only to the Iranian threat, as any armed confrontation with these nations could lead to a full-scale war. Intelligence sources say they have concrete evidence that Syria has amassed tens of thousands of missiles, heavy rockets, and Katyushas and has positioned them in sites from which they will be able to sow destruction across all of Israel, including the southern city of Beersheba. Hizbullah has also replenished its heavy rocket arsenal, which has increased quantitatively and qualitatively from what it had before the 2006 Second Lebanon War.
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    about Israel at first we have to talk about arabian countries. because arabian countries do not want to make good relationship with Israel. may they want but their people do not accept this because of historical events.

    also a country can only survive in good relationship with neighbours. without that no country can live in peace.
     

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