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Thread: Beginning of the universe

  1. #1 Beginning of the universe 
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    Im not sure if there is a hole here, but if anyone can find it im sure someone here will kindly point it out to me.

    Ok here goes

    If at the beginning of the universe all the particles were together and moving at a certain speed.
    Would their position in the next second be certain?
    Or is it subject to probabilities?

    According to Pierre-Simon Laplace if the position and momentum of everything was known,
    he would be able to predict the future and the past using only newtons laws of motion.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace%27s_demon

    Now this is clearly impossible to know, however if it is true and everything happens according to the initial conditions.
    Does this mean that whatever we do has already been predetermined according to laws concerning the movement of particles?
    And therefore although we appear to have free will,
    Any decision we make has infact already been predetermined?

    Just a thought,

    please try to keep your answers fairly simple though, im only just finishing my A levels...


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  3. #2 Re: Beginning of the universe 
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    Quote Originally Posted by camear2003
    is it subject to probabilities?
    I figured since electrons positions are given by probabilities,
    that might have something to do with it...


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  4. #3  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    The world of quantum mechanics is subject to true chaotic behavior and Heisenberg uncertainty. That means that some events aren't predictable, even in principle. So to answer your question: No, everything is not predetermined. There is a truly random element at work.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  5. #4  
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    cheers KALSTER
    im not sure whether im happier or unhappier in that knowledge though
    :?
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  6. #5 Re: Beginning of the universe 
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    [quote="camear2003"]Im not sure if there is a hole here, but if anyone can find it im sure someone here will kindly point it out to me.

    Ok here goes

    If at the beginning of the universe all the particles were together and moving at a certain speed.
    Would their position in the next second be certain?
    Or is it subject to probabilities?

    JG: Although people like to conceive of the big bang as a simple sphere which expands, we actually live in a multi-dimensional universe. In addition the center of our galaxy is a big bang point. Likewise the same is true of the center of all the other galaxies. Thus the big bang is not simultaneous all over the universe.
    The size of the universe never really changes. New galaxies replace older galaxies forever.
    The Heizenberg principle negates the possibility of certainty. Thus we live in a random chance universe within a degree of certainty.
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  7. #6 Re: Beginning of the universe 
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    [quote="JerryG38"]
    Quote Originally Posted by camear2003
    Im not sure if there is a hole here, but if anyone can find it im sure someone here will kindly point it out to me.

    Ok here goes

    If at the beginning of the universe all the particles were together and moving at a certain speed.
    Would their position in the next second be certain?
    Or is it subject to probabilities?

    JG: Although people like to conceive of the big bang as a simple sphere which expands, we actually live in a multi-dimensional universe. In addition the center of our galaxy is a big bang point. Likewise the same is true of the center of all the other galaxies. Thus the big bang is not simultaneous all over the universe.
    The size of the universe never really changes. New galaxies replace older galaxies forever.
    The Heizenberg principle negates the possibility of certainty. Thus we live in a random chance universe within a degree of certainty.
    I think the big bang is a form of comedy. Not what took place in the beginning of the universe.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  8. #7  
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    Some comments on your post Jerry:
    JG: Although people like to conceive of the big bang as a simple sphere which expands, we actually live in a multi-dimensional universe.
    Yes, the sphere misconception is pretty common. The thing is that for it to be a sphere there would have to be an outside of it from where you could judge it to be a sphere. This can’t be the case, since the big bang is posited as the origin of space-time and as such there can’t be an outside. In fact, there can’t even be an edge.


    In addition the center of our galaxy is a big bang point. Likewise the same is true of the center of all the other galaxies. Thus the big bang is not simultaneous all over the universe.
    This is a new one. The big bang did happen everywhere, since when it started, “everywhere” was a zero-dimensional dot.


    The size of the universe never really changes.
    It does, since expansion is still observed today and in fact has been found to be accelerating.


    New galaxies replace older galaxies forever.
    Not sure about this, since the only eventual end of a galaxy seems to a black hole.


    The Heizenberg principle negates the possibility of certainty. Thus we live in a random chance universe within a degree of certainty.
    Agreed.

    I think you may be thinking of a Solid State Universe, which does not fit the current interpretation of the evidence.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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