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Thread: Mass of Photon Energy

  1. #1 Mass of Photon Energy 
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    According to (my best understanding of) mass-energy equivalence, an objects mass is related to and created from its energy, and anything with energy has mass. For what reason are photons omitted from this principle, allowing them to be both massless and be composed of energy?


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    Nope. Something can have energy but not necessarily mass. Photons are virtual particles with zero mass possibly because they do not possess the theoretical and elusive higgs boson.


    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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    Forum Senior anand_kapadia's Avatar
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    Actually photons are the particles of electromagnetic radiation(light).
    The light energy is not released continuosly rather they are released from a source in the form of packets of energy. These packets of energy are called photons. Actually they can be regarded as waves released in packets. So, they are massless.

    Photons are emmited from the matter, the atoms of which are excited.

    And since photons are light particles travelling with the speed of light
    Then According to E=MC^2 rule they are coverted to energy and are in the form of energy(where C stands for speed of light)

    " Any thing which travels with the speed of light converts into energy."
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    Thanks for the feedback. On Wikipedia's entry on Mass-Energy Equivalence, they mention:

    If a box of mirrors contains light, the mass of the box is increased by the energy of the light, since the total energy of the box is its mass.
    Could someone elaborate on this statement? Is the box's mass actually increasing, or are they considering the box and the light together and taking the amount of energy from the whole system? Are the photons interacting with and transferring energy to the box, thus increasing the box's mass? If that's the case, then does it follow that a photon's energy is only converted into mass when it interacts with a physical medium, i.e. striking a semiconductor and exciting an electron?
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    Forum Senior anand_kapadia's Avatar
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    can you post the link from where you got the said line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anand_kapadia
    can you post the link from where you got the said line.
    Of course: Wikipedia: Mass-energy equivalence
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    In relativity, all the energy which moves along with the body adds up to the rest energy of the body, which is proportional to the rest mass of the body. Even a single photon traveling in empty space has a relativistic mass, which is its energy divided by c2. If a box of mirrors contains light, the mass of the box is increased by the energy of the light, since the total energy of the box is its mass.

    Actually the mass used here is RElATIVISTIC mass which actually is the sum of the energy of the system (mass of box+energy of photons)

    Relativistic mass of photon is determined by M=E/C^2.



    Read:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_mass
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    Quote Originally Posted by anand_kapadia
    In relativity, all the energy which moves along with the body adds up to the rest energy of the body, which is proportional to the rest mass of the body. Even a single photon traveling in empty space has a relativistic mass, which is its energy divided by c2. If a box of mirrors contains light, the mass of the box is increased by the energy of the light, since the total energy of the box is its mass.

    Actually the mass used here is RElATIVISTIC mass which actually is the sum of the energy of the system (mass of box+energy of photons)

    Relativistic mass of photon is determined by M=E/C^2.



    Read:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_mass
    Light is work done, energy/velocity used. There is less potential energy in a field of light then there is in total blackness.

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    William McCormick
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  10. #9  
    Forum Senior anand_kapadia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Quote Originally Posted by anand_kapadia
    In relativity, all the energy which moves along with the body adds up to the rest energy of the body, which is proportional to the rest mass of the body. Even a single photon traveling in empty space has a relativistic mass, which is its energy divided by c2. If a box of mirrors contains light, the mass of the box is increased by the energy of the light, since the total energy of the box is its mass.

    Actually the mass used here is RElATIVISTIC mass which actually is the sum of the energy of the system (mass of box+energy of photons)

    Relativistic mass of photon is determined by M=E/C^2.



    Read:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_mass
    Light is work done, energy/velocity used. There is less potential energy in a field of light then there is in total blackness.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

    Is there any relevance of this information with the original post.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by anand_kapadia
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Quote Originally Posted by anand_kapadia
    In relativity, all the energy which moves along with the body adds up to the rest energy of the body, which is proportional to the rest mass of the body. Even a single photon traveling in empty space has a relativistic mass, which is its energy divided by c2. If a box of mirrors contains light, the mass of the box is increased by the energy of the light, since the total energy of the box is its mass.

    Actually the mass used here is RElATIVISTIC mass which actually is the sum of the energy of the system (mass of box+energy of photons)

    Relativistic mass of photon is determined by M=E/C^2.



    Read:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_mass
    Light is work done, energy/velocity used. There is less potential energy in a field of light then there is in total blackness.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

    Is there any relevance of this information with the original post.

    Yes there is. In actuality there is no such thing as energy. There is just differences in velocity.

    There is no such thing as mass actually. There is just effects of velocity verses time, over a distance, interacting with structures. Subatomic particles are indestructible. And never touch one another.

    So on one hand your conversation is claiming to be going deeper, to the basics, and actually you are getting shallower, and more Sci-fi.

    You cannot create or destroy energy because it does not exist. Truly it does not. We are just playing with velocity and structures. No energy created or destroyed. We are not even witnessing energy. Just a change in velocity and structure.

    But in these terms it is hard to hold people hostage with energy schemes.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Flash/Ball...sAndAtoms.html

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Flash/Ball...lsandTime.html

    Years ago, by the eighth grade, if properly administrated, individuals had more knowledge then individuals going through ten years of college today. We are a lazy lame nation.

    In those videos is the hard won, secrets of the atom and subatomic particles. Despite what the masses of cowards say.

    Everything you detect, see, hear feel, is a slow down and reduction of velocity or technically wrongly stated potential energy.

    Accelerated used to be used in terms of positive or negative acceleration. I believe that many misunderstood this usage.




    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchi
    Thanks for the feedback. On Wikipedia's entry on Mass-Energy Equivalence, they mention:

    If a box of mirrors contains light, the mass of the box is increased by the energy of the light, since the total energy of the box is its mass.
    Could someone elaborate on this statement? Is the box's mass actually increasing, or are they considering the box and the light together and taking the amount of energy from the whole system? Are the photons interacting with and transferring energy to the box, thus increasing the box's mass? If that's the case, then does it follow that a photon's energy is only converted into mass when it interacts with a physical medium, i.e. striking a semiconductor and exciting an electron?
    Photons are perturbations of the plus and minue electromagnetic fields. When photons exist in a straight line, they travel at the speed of light and have zero mass unless they are slowed when passing stars. Then they develop a straight line and partially spherical oscillation and thus gain mass.
    In the box of mirrors the photons develop mass because they produce a spherical waveshape.
    The proton is only photon energy in a spherical shape where excess positive electromagnetic energy exists. The electron has a surplus of negative electromagnetic energy. However both has a balanced blend of plus and minus electromagnetic energy.
    Mass is merely a property of charge which flows in a spherical shape. Thus the entire universe is electrical in nature.
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