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Thread: Flying tank ammunition

  1. #1 Flying tank ammunition 
    Forum Ph.D. Hanuka's Avatar
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    Hello guys,
    Does anyone here knows what happens to your body when a tank caliber passes near your (in a radious of like less then 1meters)?
    Does the force pushes you or like rips your hand off or something like this?

    tony


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  3. #2  
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    You will certainly feel (and hear) some wind effects but that's all that will happen. A near miss will do no harm.


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    kk man,
    thanks for the answer btw xD
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  5. #4  
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    Why? Are you expecting to be shot at? I think that it would scare you enough and create enough pressure to throw you off of your feet.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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  6. #5  
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    A Reuters cameraman was killed by Israeli tank shell a few days ago. I guess the IDF is claiming they were firing on some threat behind him, he shouldn't have been in the way...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    A Reuters cameraman was killed by Israeli tank shell a few days ago. I guess the IDF is claiming they were firing on some threat behind him, he shouldn't have been in the way...
    That's offtopic here, please stay ontopic and/or open a new thread elsewhere to discuss this.
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    I agree 100%. Thanks for pointing that out.
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  9. #8 Re: Flying tank ammunition 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    Hello guys,
    Does anyone here knows what happens to your body when a tank caliber passes near your (in a radious of like less then 1meters)?
    Does the force pushes you or like rips your hand off or something like this?

    tony
    It can blow your skull open. I knew an older World War One fellow. And he had been on the battle field. While the Germans were firing the large caliper guns over head. Even twenty five feet away the shells would pop skulls. A lot of the World War One guys all had plates in their heads from that.

    There is an electrical charge preceding the round. A plasma cutting ray.

    Most people think that a bullet can cut through armor and steel using kinetic energy. In fact the bullet uses a plasma ray. Just like a plasma cutter. Many people saw the 911 videos of the plane crashing into the twin towers.

    Many wondered what that white ARC in front of the plane was. It formed just as it was near the building. That is a plasma ray. It may just be the liquid in the air. However that ARC or lighted area, cuts metal.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Flash/Forc...OneBullet.html



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  10. #9  
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    lol the reason why I`m asking this is coz i`m due to join the army in about 1 year so many questions are bugging my head this time xD

    And btw, thanks for the answer william, but can you please explain me how the plasma rays generate? is it couse the friction between the bullet and the air or just the pressure?
    and btw, why does the armour of the guys in the video was flaoted when he shot a revolver caliber at it??

    thanks,
    tony
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  11. #10  
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    Take what William says with a grain of salt.
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  12. #11  
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    eh? i dun get it...
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    He means that williams responses should not be taken seriously.

    I think hes been playing too many computer games if you ask me...."plasma rays"??
    Chance favours the prepared mind.
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    For the most part I have never heard of anyone being blown over from a near miss. The tank round is designed to be aerodynamic, meaning it cutts though the air instead of pushing massive amounts of it around. Now I can say that back blasts from such weapons as an RPG, LAW, AT-4 can knock you over from about a foot to two feet.

    But again I can not really say never had a tank shoot at me before let alone have a round pass so close.

    To tell you the truth if you have a tank shooting at you, you have alot more to worry about than weather a near miss will knock you on your ass. A 120mm Renistien shell fired from the M1A1 Abrams Tank, depending on the ammuintion can have a kill radius of a couple hundred feet. Shrapnel is bad very bad.

    And the part about the plasma rays? WTF?

    Sorry, but don't see how any bullet travaling on avrage 2,900 ft/s (High Velocity Rounds I.E. 5.56x45mm Nato) is going to produce enough heat that on impact it creats a super hot ray of gas/liquidly stuff called plasma. Bullets that nomally are used to destroy hard targets contain a massively strong metal core such as tungsten that uses energy and sheer force to blow though the target. Incendiary rounds use a chemical compostion in the nose of the round to cause a thermal reation. But nomally bullet just destroy thier intended targets though tissue disruption and impact.

    Sorry no plasma rays.
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  15. #14  
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    hm... it seems that the answers very from every post xD

    so to sum it up, lets say a tank caliber just passed me (near my arm) by 1 inch... and it hit and exploded somewhere far away from me so i aint getting hurt from the blast, but the force is to be knocking me off my feet/doing nothing/ripping my arm or just pushing me a bit??
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    If you had a round from a tank move around a half to one foot from you I am sure you will feel it's precence, proably clothing moved or disturbed. Now anything nearer than 6 inches you might feel heat and your arm might move, in the worse case senerio I could maybe see some burns or a large jolt while it moves past you.

    But again I have never heard of anyone suffering an injury from a round coming close to them. Could the round going past you knock you on your ass maybe but I highly think it to be implausible. And I can tell you this it would in no way rip your arm off your body unless direct contact was made. I mean consider the speed at which the round is moving past your body. It moves so fast that even if it did go past you would not realize it untill it was at its target. Not that, that matters, it's just there are hundreds and thousands of things that are way more likely to effect you on a battlefield especailly now days when with a few exceptions ( USA, Great Britian, and Allied Forces.) can field enough armor for it to not be taken out within the first few weeks of an intial engagment in which most all of it will be destroyed with tactial airstrikes.

    So if you have anymore questions feel free to ask me. If there is one thing I can do it is provide information about the Armed Forces.
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  17. #16  
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    thanks for the simple answer demon, i like these kind of answers

    say... do you know anything about Israeli milletery??
    as I wanna join "Sayeret Matkal" (General Staff Reconnaissance Unit in english) and i want to find out more about it.
    generally i want to join the best fighting unit that there is in the militery and this is the best of what i got so far... maybe you know others that i dunno of?

    thanks,
    tony
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    lol the reason why I`m asking this is coz i`m due to join the army in about 1 year so many questions are bugging my head this time xD

    And btw, thanks for the answer william, but can you please explain me how the plasma rays generate? is it couse the friction between the bullet and the air or just the pressure?
    and btw, why does the armour of the guys in the video was flaoted when he shot a revolver caliber at it??

    thanks,
    tony
    The air pressure from the gun blows up the vest at that range. Not the round.

    I did a lot of ballistic testing myself.

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    William McCormick
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  19. #18  
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    how come??
    when the round sails thru air it cuts the wind sideways like bullet thru water.
    and then sending broad waves of air pressure sideways, how can this possibly blow up a vest?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    how come??
    when the round sails thru air it cuts the wind sideways like bullet thru water.
    and then sending broad waves of air pressure sideways, how can this possibly blow up a vest?
    I was trying to say that the pressure from the powder, that exits the gun, at that range, along with the bullet, is what you see flashing under the mans shirt. And puffing up the vest.

    That NATO round leaves with several thousand pounds per square inch behind it. This air pressure, can travel a very good distance before it, is dispersed.

    The hand gun, has a volume of medium pressure gas. Some of which is still unburned.

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    William McCormick
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    say... do you know anything about Israeli milletery??
    as I wanna join "Sayeret Matkal" (General Staff Reconnaissance Unit in english) and i want to find out more about it.
    generally i want to join the best fighting unit that there is in the militery and this is the best of what i got so far... maybe you know others that i dunno of?
    What do you want to do that for? To go and kill Palestinians?
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    well... to defend me country in the best way and not getting bored to death, so yah, killing palestinians
    not that i have anything against them, but if they are aiming to kill me then why shouldnt i kill them 1st?? afterall its a torah mitzva to kill ur wannabe killa b4 he killz you...
    btw, in sayeret matkal you mostly kill torrorists (its like, um... recon missions or just destroy places where you KNOW that there are baddies) so no evil points to me i guess... :/

    btw, william, what is a NATO and what it`ll do to me body with that kind of pressure if it passes by me??
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    well... to defend me country in the best way and not getting bored to death, so yah, killing palestinians
    not that i have anything against them, but if they are aiming to kill me then why shouldnt i kill them 1st?? afterall its a torah mitzva to kill ur wannabe killa b4 he killz you...
    btw, in sayeret matkal you mostly kill torrorists (its like, um... recon missions or just destroy places where you KNOW that there are baddies) so no evil points to me i guess... :/

    btw, william, what is a NATO and what it`ll do to me body with that kind of pressure if it passes by me??
    At that time it was the standard round fired by most of the NATA forces in Europe I believe.

    It would probably have to pass close to you, to damage you permanently.

    But it could. And if you are standing on muddy soil, or in water. You could die, under the right circumstances.

    When you are disconnected from the ground by water. The water can ARC, between you and the ground. Causing you to reach destructive disintegration voltages.

    You should realize that when your country does not have a space program that they do not care, to much about the outcome of the war. A war allows fools to hide their failure. Until the end.

    Most people in Germany knew Germany had the super weapon. Surely Hitler had a sane plane to come at any moment, and bring Germany out of the ashes. Then Hitler took cyanide.

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    William McCormick
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  24. #23  
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    The air pressure from the gun blows up the vest at that range. Not the round.

    I did a lot of ballistic testing myself.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
    Pretty cool. See I learn something new everyday.

    Nice to see another gun jocky around here.

    Interesting what kind of range are we talking about here. And what caliber of NATO cartridge?

    So are you saying that the extreme pressure from the intial release of the round though the muzzle is what attually inflicts damage on the given target even before the round gets there. About how far would you say said target would need to be to gain injury from the air pressure released in the intial expending of the round (say the 5.56x45mm)?


    say... do you know anything about Israeli milletery??
    as I wanna join "Sayeret Matkal" (General Staff Reconnaissance Unit in english) and i want to find out more about it.
    generally i want to join the best fighting unit that there is in the militery and this is the best of what i got so far... maybe you know others that i dunno of?

    I know quite a bit about the Israeli Armed Forces, and as I understand it from your post you have not yet served you obligation of 2 years have you. Well depending upon your age you will have a while to think upon it. But it all depends on what you are wanting to do within the your Armed Forces. The Sayeret Matkal specialize in deep and clandistine intellegnce operations, but they are a well rounded unit being able to proform Direct Action, and Counter Terroist Operations. It is an added bonus that they are modeled after one of the greatest SOF units of all time the SAS. But if you are more into just going out into Direct Action Operations the Duvdevan are proably more your style, they profrom urben warfare and indiginous operations. You also have the S-13 which is a naval commando force. You also have a unit that specializes in desposing of Ordance but is also an extremly reliable force of combat engineers. Can't recall thier name though. You guys also recently within the last 30 years got a new Air Commando force. So it all depends on you but if you do get into one of these elite units I am sure you obligation to you country would be greatly extended.

    Personally I am a US Navy SEAL candidate one of the United States elite units along with US Army Specail Forces, Force Recon, CCT, Pararescue, and the Army Rangers.

    But remenber no matter what you pick no one unit is more elite than the other they each have thier own areas of special knowlegde and capablitys so chose wisely and understand what you are asking for, war is not a game and should never be seen as such. Your actions may require you to take human life and that in of it's self is a huge responablity. Good luck anymore questions just ask.

    What do you want to do that for? To go and kill Palestinians?
    Maybe he just wants to serve his country in the best way he can. Can't say for sure on his part, but as for me it would seem kind of contridicting if I go to join a unit that specailizes in the art of taking life and say that I do not what to engage in a fight with my countrys enemies. Thats what I am joining for to be able to get my gun in the fight.

    But I can see where you are coming from. 8)

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  25. #24  
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    Well posted it alittle late didn't I.

    Hanuka wrote:
    well... to defend me country in the best way and not getting bored to death, so yah, killing palestinians
    not that i have anything against them, but if they are aiming to kill me then why shouldnt i kill them 1st?? afterall its a torah mitzva to kill ur wannabe killa b4 he killz you...
    btw, in sayeret matkal you mostly kill torrorists (its like, um... recon missions or just destroy places where you KNOW that there are baddies) so no evil points to me i guess... :/

    btw, william, what is a NATO and what it`ll do to me body with that kind of pressure if it passes by me??


    At that time it was the standard round fired by most of the NATA forces in Europe I believe.

    It would probably have to pass close to you, to damage you permanently.

    But it could. And if you are standing on muddy soil, or in water. You could die, under the right circumstances.

    When you are disconnected from the ground by water. The water can ARC, between you and the ground. Causing you to reach destructive disintegration voltages.

    You should realize that when your country does not have a space program that they do not care, to much about the outcome of the war. A war allows fools to hide their failure. Until the end.

    Most people in Germany knew Germany had the super weapon. Surely Hitler had a sane plane to come at any moment, and bring Germany out of the ashes. Then Hitler took cyanide.

    Sincerely,
    A NATO is nothing but an abbreviation for the North Alantic Trade Organization. When put behide a caliber it means that the countrys that adhear to the North Alantic Trade Organization must also follow suit in the deployment of a weapon system that meets thier requirements. The caliber is the important thing, weather it is conventional or non-conventional has no infulence on the capablitys of the round.

    :? William are you refering to a nearby detonation of a High Explosive or are you saying something totally different. I am not understanding can you clear it up for me. So I know what you are talking about apprently I missed something along the way sorry. (I am refering to your statements about ground and water disconnetion.) I am confused :?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon X01
    Pretty cool. See I learn something new everyday.

    Nice to see another gun jocky around here.

    Interesting what kind of range are we talking about here. And what caliber of NATO cartridge?

    So are you saying that the extreme pressure from the initial release of the round through the muzzle is what actually inflicts damage on the given target even before the round gets there. About how far would you say said target would need to be to gain injury from the air pressure released in the initial expending of the round (say the 5.56x45mm)?
    I was saying that right behind the bullet is a release that is well over 5000 psi if I am not mistaken. I know from working with high pressure gases the force that these gases can exert.

    I used to be closer to the exact specs of each round. Then for a while the terminology seemed to be used on a large scale, differently then I used and learned it. And I kind of lost interest.

    Some of the gases as they exit the gun, are not even fully burned. As they strike the fellow they can do some light secondary damage. And cause those flashes, like you see in the movie.

    I used to fire a mini-14 a lot, with full copper jacketed rounds that were sold as Canadian Army surplus. They used to put a fireball, about the size of a basketball at the end of the barrel. If these gases are allowed to get into the shirt and vest, they will puff it up just like in the movie.

    I never fired the NATO round. Never liked NATO. Always tried to find American made guns. It is hard though. A lot of the fun plinkers like the mini-14 are made somewhere else.

    I even enjoyed the AK-22, I believe made in China. It had a fifty round clip and was a great plinker.

    My son just bought a WASA and we went to fire it at the local range. I could not adjust the sights at the range, the night we went to fire it for the first time. I did not have any tools.
    However at 50 yards the pattern was actually a little better then the mini-14. The WASA has very little kick. But a fun plinker. It fires some crazy metric round. I don't even remember what it was.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/WMV/WildBill.wmv



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    William McCormick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon X01
    A NATO is nothing but an abbreviation for the North Alantic Trade Organization. When put behide a caliber it means that the countrys that adhear to the North Alantic Trade Organization must also follow suit in the deployment of a weapon system that meets thier requirements. The caliber is the important thing, weather it is conventional or non-conventional has no infulence on the capablitys of the round.

    :? William are you refering to a nearby detonation of a High Explosive or are you saying something totally different. I am not understanding can you clear it up for me. So I know what you are talking about apprently I missed something along the way sorry. (I am refering to your statements about ground and water disconnetion.) I am confused :?
    Have you ever seen high pressure gas in action. It is destructive to material. If you saw the sail on a sail boat rip, from a gusty wind you would not think anything of it. Because you are familiar with those kinds of pressure.

    But when you start working with high pressure gases, you see the potential for destruction. Valves make noises like they are being hit with a hammer. Just by opening them to quickly. They often do come off or apart.
    Sometimes from sudden compression the gases release heat great enough to melt valve seals.

    Often damaging individuals using them. You must open high pressure valves, as if you are defusing a bomb, if you never want to experience a valve or regulator explosion.

    The high pressure gas in the gun is coming out with such velocity that it can cause those effects at those distances.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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    Have you ever seen high pressure gas in action. It is destructive to material. If you saw the sail on a sail boat rip, from a gusty wind you would not think anything of it. Because you are familiar with those kinds of pressure.

    But when you start working with high pressure gases, you see the potential for destruction. Valves make noises like they are being hit with a hammer. Just by opening them to quickly. They often do come off or apart.
    Sometimes from sudden compression the gases release heat great enough to melt valve seals.

    Often damaging individuals using them. You must open high pressure valves, as if you are defusing a bomb, if you never want to experience a valve or regulator explosion.

    The high pressure gas in the gun is coming out with such velocity that it can cause those effects at those distances.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
    Okay now I understand thanks for the info always helps to know a little more.

    Yeah love the Mini-14 used to own a blued one got it for around 400 and sold it for about the same. Now you can't touch one for less than 650 dollars. Should have kept the thing. Great gun though. Not to fimilar with the AK-22. But I looked it up and found that it looks like it would be fun just to have around the house to do some shooting. Not to mention they sell .22's in those 500 round boxes could do a lot of shooting without draining the wallet. Hell ammo only seems to get more expensive.

    WASA never owned one, but if the intial spread is better than the Mini must be a nice shooting rifle.

    Right now I am investing all my money into an Rock Rivers AR-15. Coming out nicely to. In all have invested about 2,000 into it.

    Also hoping to get ahold of the new Springfield Socom 2 but hell just standard it costs almost as much as my 15 with a cluster rail, foward mounted pressure senseitive flash light, EOTech CQB sight, and neon green striker aimpoint device. And being a High School student/ DEP in the Navy it is hard to keep coming up with the cash for my hobby. Now come the end of June when I will be full time and the military will actually be paying me for time served, then I plan on getting quite a few unqiue toys.

    Also nice vid. That one of you shooting.

    Thanks for all the info McCormick I love learning anything new that has to do with firearms or the mechinics involved.
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    I never fired the blued min-14. I only fired the folding stock stainless mini-14. I found that highly inaccurate. Never heard there was a difference. I would love to try one.

    The most accurate gun I ever fired, no one believes me, and owners must be afraid of the responses I get over it, and do not come forward.

    But it was a smooth bore, 3" magnum slug gun. Made in Japan for Browning Arms. Most incredible gun I ever fired. I had walked into Eidlmen's gun store. I had asked for the best shotgun they had, I said money is no object.

    So they brought out two Browning guns. He said they are rare. And I could see instantly why. They had gold triggers. They had huge Moose or Elks engraved on them. I said I would take them. Then he said what are you going to use them for. So I said skeet. He grabbed them back. He said you cannot use the choke rings and fire sheet loads. I said I want them, and I will shoot slug with them.

    Of course around me I have no place to shoot slug. So I go and shoot skeet. They do not recoil and reload automatically. So I take out both brass choke rings and they just reload on skeet loads.

    I had the guns for a couple years, when I stop into Magnum Arms and the fellow says, what kind of guns do you have? I told him about all the guns I had.

    When I got to the Browning shot guns he said. Wow, what did you think of firing them. I said nothing. They actually hardly recoil. He said did you try them with magnum slug loads. I said no. He said Holy S*it, you have to try some. So he sold me a box of 2 3/4" and a box of 3" magnum shells. And said both fire identical.

    I did not have time to go to the range and check them out that night. But all during the next day. I was excited about trying them out. I never heard anyone rave about firing a round like that.

    I owned at the time the Belgium made Browning three inch Magnum that had a long barrel and a brass ball end sight. And the short barrel Japanese made with the standard sight. I brought both guns.

    You were only supposed to load one round into the gun but I had to get home and do some work yet, so I just loaded them all in.

    I wanted to try a mix of 2 3/4" and 3" magnum rounds. So I just filled the gun with a mix. As you put the first round into the gun, if the chamber is open, it loads the round into the chamber automatically. Then you can put the rest of the shells into the tube. So I had five rounds in the gun.

    I aim at the target, I fire standing. I see for the first time a perfect bull's-eye. The only problem is that I feel like I have been hit by a truck. I actually put down the gun and opened my shirt.
    I had a purple hemorrhage under the skin on my chest/shoulder. I also did not hear a round go off. All I heard was the sound of hotel desk clerk bell.
    I am a bit bewildered. But my father, brought up by an old Navy guy had told me about silent firing of Navy guns. So I thought this must be the principle. Ha-ha

    I have to try another. I aim at the target, fire and there is no new hole. The gun kicked like crazy. In fact in anticipating the kick I may have been even more aware of it. But with no new hole; and I know I could not have missed the target. I thought it would be wise to check the barrel. Maybe there was a jam. I lock the rounds into the tube. I eject one round. I put the end of the gun barrel to the light, and I see light.
    So I open the tube, a round loads into the chamber and I put the round I ejected back into the tube.

    I fire again no new hole. I say what the heck? I have fired thousands of rounds. I used to buy 500 rounds at a time from the store. One time one of the owners or managers actually said what are you doing with all that ammo? Ha-ha. And kind of looked doubtful that I could just be firing it all. But the point is that I never could put three rounds through the same hole and not leave at least a furry three circle pattern on the bulls-eye.

    I pulled the target back in and looked at it. I was amazed. But still not sure I just got three bulls-eye's. So I send out the target and decide to aim one quarter inch low and to the left. I fire, there is a tiny quarter inch crest one quarter inch low and to the left in the target. Now I am getting ants in my pants. I am alone. I am starting to feel like Alan Fundt from candid camera, is going to step in and we will all laugh.

    So I fire the last round at the bulls-eye and there is no new hole, and still no sound coming from the gun. I checked my ears. I could hear a pin drop.

    I wanted to try the Belgium model, because it was a much more comfortable gun to fire. So I loaded a couple I think three rounds into the gun. I fired one and it made a popping noise. Like that comedian bell hope that slaps his hand over his mouth. It sounded like a champaign bottle opening up. I had to fire it one more time, and it did the same thing. It was way off target and the pattern seemed random.

    At that point I was laughing, kind of hysterically giddy, laughing to myself by myself. And figured that I should really unload the gun and leave the indoor gun range. And I did.

    But that was just insane. And I am not asking you to believe me. But for those that realize that often many either know something and don't say anything, or that many don't know anything about it and cannot say anything. I just wanted to share something that happened to me.

    It looked like I was hit by a car, on my chest and shoulder though.

    That was me firing my sons WASA at the indoor range.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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    I never fired the blued min-14. I only fired the folding stock stainless mini-14. I found that highly inaccurate. Never heard there was a difference. I would love to try one.
    Yours is actually better, the blued was cheaper(had to keep it real clean or eles the damn thing would start rusting, but I did like the standard wood stock). But I found the Mini-14 groups not to be so bad between 75-100 yard useing 62gr. ball point ammo running about 3,000 ft/s. I could usually get around a avarage of a 2.5 to 4.0 inch group with controlled shots. (Useing 3 shot groups)

    Of course I am comparing it's degree of accuracy to the other rifles I have fired and owned. And I have not owned many highly accurate weapons, most my experince is with Black Rifles such as the AR platforms and mainly assualt rifles in general. Which tend to be unaccurate when compared to more prescion platforms. Love my .30-06 though nice deer hunting rifle.




    But it was a smooth bore, 3" magnum slug gun. Made in Japan for Browning Arms. Most incredible gun I ever fired. I had walked into Eidlmen's gun store. I had asked for the best shotgun they had, I said money is no object.

    So they brought out two Browning guns. He said they are rare. And I could see instantly why. They had gold triggers. They had huge Moose or Elks engraved on them. I said I would take them. Then he said what are you going to use them for. So I said skeet. He grabbed them back. He said you cannot use the choke rings and fire sheet loads. I said I want them, and I will shoot slug with them.
    They sound beautiful. Made in Japan for Browning Arms, I am proably guessing that there aren't to many of those left. I would hold onto them. A 3" magnum, wanted to let people know you were around didn't ya.

    Always wanted to get a Holand and Holand .700 Tyranousrus, stacked double barrel break. But it will proably be a cold day in hell before I pay over 120,000 dollars for one gun.

    When I got to the Browning shot guns he said. Wow, what did you think of firing them. I said nothing. They actually hardly recoil. He said did you try them with magnum slug loads. I said no. He said Holy S*it, you have to try some. So he sold me a box of 2 3/4" and a box of 3" magnum shells. And said both fire identical.

    I did not have time to go to the range and check them out that night. But all during the next day. I was excited about trying them out. I never heard anyone rave about firing a round like that.

    I owned at the time the Belgium made Browning three inch Magnum that had a long barrel and a brass ball end sight. And the short barrel Japanese made with the standard sight. I brought both guns.

    You were only supposed to load one round into the gun but I had to get home and do some work yet, so I just loaded them all in.

    I wanted to try a mix of 2 3/4" and 3" magnum rounds. So I just filled the gun with a mix. As you put the first round into the gun, if the chamber is open, it loads the round into the chamber automatically. Then you can put the rest of the shells into the tube. So I had five rounds in the gun.

    I aim at the target, I fire standing. I see for the first time a perfect bull's-eye. The only problem is that I feel like I have been hit by a truck. I actually put down the gun and opened my shirt.
    Damn I would have loved to fire something like that, sounds like it was a beast. And I don't know how big you are but I am 5 11" and only 138 pounds and if I shot the damn thing it would have proably torn something in my shoulder.



    I had a purple hemorrhage under the skin on my chest/shoulder. I also did not hear a round go off. All I heard was the sound of hotel desk clerk bell.
    I am a bit bewildered. But my father, brought up by an old Navy guy had told me about silent firing of Navy guns. So I thought this must be the principle. Ha-ha
    I have heard of this happening especially to soldiers near a explosion. Some claim they never heard a thing then suddenly they were lying on the ground flat. I guess that the body turns off its ablilty to hear when it is pounded by supermassive sounds. Of course I dont know a lot about the human body so I could be wrong. Never fired something so loud I didn't hear the shoot but that AR is getting damn close I just barely make out a sharp ping. And after a few shots not even that. Ear protection is now essential to me. I dont shoot without it any more.

    I have to try another. I aim at the target, fire and there is no new hole. The gun kicked like crazy. In fact in anticipating the kick I may have been even more aware of it. But with no new hole; and I know I could not have missed the target. I thought it would be wise to check the barrel. Maybe there was a jam. I lock the rounds into the tube. I eject one round. I put the end of the gun barrel to the light, and I see light.
    So I open the tube, a round loads into the chamber and I put the round I ejected back into the tube.

    I fire again no new hole. I say what the heck? I have fired thousands of rounds. I used to buy 500 rounds at a time from the store. One time one of the owners or managers actually said what are you doing with all that ammo? Ha-ha. And kind of looked doubtful that I could just be firing it all. But the point is that I never could put three rounds through the same hole and not leave at least a furry three circle pattern on the bulls-eye.

    I pulled the target back in and looked at it. I was amazed. But still not sure I just got three bulls-eye's. So I send out the target and decide to aim one quarter inch low and to the left. I fire, there is a tiny quarter inch crest one quarter inch low and to the left in the target. Now I am getting ants in my pants. I am alone. I am starting to feel like Alan Fundt from candid camera, is going to step in and we will all laugh.

    So I fire the last round at the bulls-eye and there is no new hole, and still no sound coming from the gun. I checked my ears. I could hear a pin drop.

    I wanted to try the Belgium model, because it was a much more comfortable gun to fire. So I loaded a couple I think three rounds into the gun. I fired one and it made a popping noise. Like that comedian bell hope that slaps his hand over his mouth. It sounded like a champaign bottle opening up. I had to fire it one more time, and it did the same thing. It was way off target and the pattern seemed random.

    At that point I was laughing, kind of hysterically giddy, laughing to myself by myself. And figured that I should really unload the gun and leave the indoor gun range. And I did.

    But that was just insane. And I am not asking you to believe me. But for those that realize that often many either know something and don't say anything, or that many don't know anything about it and cannot say anything. I just wanted to share something that happened to me.
    I find that pretty easy to belive, given some of the shit I have seen on Exabition shooting, things that are commpletly crazy. ( Example shooting asprians out of the air with a .22 I mean how the hell do they get that good.)

    I understand about you wanting to share that and to tell you the God's honest truth I belive you. I mean that's 3 damn awsome shots, but I have put 2 .30-06 rounds though the same hole only way I could tell was the round entered the same way but the target had two layers and it left at a differnet angle than the first. If you shot long enough some stange shit is bound to happen to you at some point.

    It looked like I was hit by a car, on my chest and shoulder though.

    That was me firing my sons WASA at the indoor range.
    Damn but I bet it was well worth it in the end right.

    Cool, nice looking rifle.

    Thanks for sharing and the info.

    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum- Flavius Vegetius Renatus

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    Cool story man! xD
    I wish I could shoot any rifle, but they`ll probably will put me to join if I did :-D
    And as Demon said; if you soot long enough theis kind of shyt is bound to happen 8).

    Aww, I almost forgot to say;
    In the army I`m looking for something like stab someone with my squad and then run away... hit&run.
    And also, I want to be in the squad that if lets say saddam husain was still alive and on the loose but we kenew his location then I wanna be in the squad which will get assaigned for this job... its Sayeret Matkal, no?

    tony
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    Aww, I almost forgot to say;
    In the army I`m looking for something like stab someone with my squad and then run away... hit&run.
    And also, I want to be in the squad that if lets say saddam husain was still alive and on the loose but we kenew his location then I wanna be in the squad which will get assaigned for this job... its Sayeret Matkal, no?

    tony
    Generally SOF forces do not stab people and run away.

    We do engage targets sometimes with bladed weapons if the situation calls for it, depending on the mission profile for short durations of time.

    Direct Action - Is what it seems you want to do that is a short duration strike with the goal of taking out key personnal, locations, or conducting raids, and ambushes. Lamans= Hit and run. Or refered to as Shoot and Loot as a favored saying amoung SOF forces.

    Sayeret Matkal is your designated strikers for heavy lifting on CT ops but if a key offical like that was spotted the job of eliminating that target or captureing them, would be given to the closest unit with the profiency to bring them down. Almost all SOF mantian a CT ability of some sort so though the Sayeret Matkal specailizes in this area, Duvdevan could proform this mission profile easily. It would mostly depend upon who was ready first. And in general Sayeret Matkal and Duvdevan would be the most likely to run an op like that. But if a high ranking al-Qaeda or Taliban offical was discoved you can almost be certain that it will be a Joint Task Force Operation, with mulitple SOF unit from mulitple countrys geting involved. For example the mission of grabing Iraq oil platforms was given to a number of forces which inclueded, British Royal Commandos, US Navy SEALs, Polish GROM, and a few others. SOF units tend to work good with each other so cross country relations are not that rare. Well I hope I have given you insight into what your choices are, but I do not know everything there is to know about you countrys military capiblitys there are proably units I have no clue about, so if I was you I would go and talk to the nearest person who would have more info and had possiably served in one of these units.

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    well... i`ve talked with my kung fu teacher about this issiue cos he`s like a pretty good army man from what i got from him, and he say there the unit witht he best success so far is "Sayeret Egoz", do you know anythin` about them??

    btw, by "stabbing someone" i meant to silet kill, could be gun/hands/knife/whatever...

    I think that i`ll join to Sayeret Matkal tho, cos it seems to fit my needs xD

    btw... do you know how the ranking system at sayeret matkal goes??
    and what do i need to do to rank up like real fast?? (i dun have energy to wait like 3274876234 years to advance just 1 rank... i better go like solo to el-quida HQ to take them all down solo than to be waiting for rank up )

    tony
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    well... i`ve talked with my kung fu teacher about this issiue cos he`s like a pretty good army man from what i got from him, and he say there the unit witht he best success so far is "Sayeret Egoz", do you know anythin` about them??
    Well I didn't know anything about them but I looked into to it for you and found some info for you the Sayetet Egoz is a counter guerrilla warfare, and guerrilla warfare unit. It has had great success in stoping terroist acts. They are sort of the Army Specail Forces equilvent in your country. Though SF have a much larger mission profile.


    btw... do you know how the ranking system at sayeret matkal goes??
    and what do i need to do to rank up like real fast?? (i dun have energy to wait like 3274876234 years to advance just 1 rank... i better go like solo to el-quida HQ to take them all down solo than to be waiting for rank up )
    Again I did not know how the IDF ranking system was, but again I looked into it and found out some info, as an enlisted man you gain rank though the time you put into service, those that spend more than thier obligation of 3 years (for males) or 2 years (for females) will automaticaly be moved up to a Non-Commissined Officer. Now in order to become a full officer there is a test so it would help if you are profeicent in your area or field. It can take any where between 2-4 years to rank up though officer ranks and longer the higher you go. So if you plan of pulling weight get ready for a long stay in the IDF. 8)
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum- Flavius Vegetius Renatus

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    so after i finished my service time i can become an officer(officer is like a commander ranking system, no?)?
    but while i`m an officer i dun have to live at base, right?
    aww aww, and after me finished my need-to-be-served duty time can i like take a year or 2 vacation and THEN come back and be an officer?

    btw, thanks for answering and digging info for me xD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon X01
    I have heard of this happening especially to soldiers near a explosion. Some claim they never heard a thing then suddenly they were lying on the ground flat. I guess that the body turns off its ablilty to hear when it is pounded by supermassive sounds. Of course I dont know a lot about the human body so I could be wrong. Never fired something so loud I didn't hear the shoot but that AR is getting damn close I just barely make out a sharp ping. And after a few shots not even that. Ear protection is now essential to me. I dont shoot without it any more.
    The Japanese made Browning shot gun is silent, all you can hear is the giant stainless steel bolt ringing after it slams back. The Belgium made Browning makes a popping noise. There are silent explosions. As part of my hazmat training, we had to watch a man get blown through a wall.

    By a rather silent explosion in a room filled with ammonia, and the fumes from a forklift carburetor. The explosion did not hurt the building or two other people in the room. It did not even knock out the guys camera, the camera kept filming.

    But the explosion picked a man up and accelerated him in about four to five feet, to a speed that allowed him to blow through a cinder block wall. And live.

    The camera man picked up his camera and started filming until he saw his friends turtle re breather pack stuck in the cinder block wall. The harness probably saved his life. By stopping him once he got through the wall.

    Check out this rifle.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/military/Ruger.wmv



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    William McCormick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon X01
    I find that pretty easy to belive, given some of the shit I have seen on Exabition shooting, things that are commpletly crazy. ( Example shooting asprians out of the air with a .22 I mean how the hell do they get that good.)

    I understand about you wanting to share that and to tell you the God's honest truth I belive you. I mean that's 3 damn awsome shots, but I have put 2 .30-06 rounds though the same hole only way I could tell was the round entered the same way but the target had two layers and it left at a differnet angle than the first. If you shot long enough some stange shit is bound to happen to you at some point.
    Do you know that you are probably a much better shot then you ever thought. I used to actually set guns up in a holder and I would get a pattern even over a short distance. Some would go through the same hole but some would stray.

    Once I fired the slug gun with a smooth bore. And a slug that is rifled and spirals in the plastic cartridge as it leaves. And is centered in the barrel by high pressure gas all around. I knew I never fired an accurate gun before.

    The 30-06 is a nice round. Up close it goes through things and does not even move them. Out a distance, it still has some kick. You can fire the World War Two Army surplus out to 400 yards, without a problem.

    It is all practice. If you do something enough you get very good at it. I can take a claw hammer and stick the claw right through 3/4" plywood pretty much every time, from about twelve to fifteen feet away. I thought that I was getting pretty good. Then I saw this. I might as well sell my hammer. Ha-ha.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Interesting/jugglehammer.wmv

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    William McCormick
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    Once firing a 30-06 on a friends property in upstate New York. I set up a little area in front of a tree.
    I used to watch Vietnam war pictures and you would see the actors hiding behind a tree, from AK-47 fire.

    Now, I know that round can go right through a tree. But I wanted to see just how big a tree and just what kind of damage it would do.

    So I set up my area with different rounds, and picked a perfectly healthy tree to shoot down. A pine tree about 14 inches in diameter.

    I opened a box of hunting rounds. And started firing. It took a giant 2"x4" piece of wood, about two feet long, out of the back of the tree.

    And for about six feet as it entered the soil of the hill I was firing into. It penetrated under ground. You could actually see the raised earth.

    So I get bored, I was with someone and I said I am going to just cut this thing down. So I fire eleven rounds, in a straight line across the tree. I am prepared to run if I hear a crackle from this tree. Because I am in front of it.
    The way I am shooting it, it should fall towards me, because I am really doing the damage to the back of the tree. I used to cut down trees and had a pretty good idea of when they will start to come down.

    I fired the last round and walk up to the tree, and although the whole back of the tree is blown away, it is still apparently not ready to fall.

    So I go back and just as I am crouching down to fire at it again. It breaks all at once. You should have seen my foolish self, trying to gather my guns and ammo, before it hit me. I run to the right and I actually felt the light branches scrape my back. I had a good laugh at myself.

    Then I got out the chain saw and cut it up, and burned it. It won't try to hurt me again, Ha-ha.



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    William McCormick
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    hum, since nobody here is giving a straight answer:

    there are several types of shells for a tank.

    first type is APFSDS- armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot,
    also known as "subcaliber rounds", "sabot" and "fin"

    this is a picture of a russian 3BM-15 round i created a while ago:



    this specific round has a muzzle velocity of about 1800m/s,
    which is about 5900 feet/s, and the penetrator itself weights around 3.9kg
    sabot rounds have a very flat trajectory, and use pure kinetic energy to punch through armour, and as it passes through the thick armour of a tank, it creates a spray of "spall" which is small metal particles traveling at
    160m/s.
    when a sabot round passes by, they create a large cracking sound. if the round passes by close enough, the overpressure is probably going to make you blackout, or suffer a shellshock.

    the second type is HEAT- high explosive anti tank


    this round does not rely on kinetic energy to defeat enemy armour, instead it has a copper liner over a high-explosive "shaped charge"
    (C4, tnt etc)
    the copper liner is silver-coloured in the picture, with the red parts being the HE.
    when the nose probe hits a target, the HE detonates, forcing the copper liner through the narrow "nose" which for a 125mm round can force its way through nearly 800mm of RHA (rolled homogenous armour)



    back when armies did not field ERA, or composite ceramic armour such as
    chobham/dorchester, HEAT was so lethal armour designers thought there would be no reason to even try to armour tanks from these rounds, and rather went for armouring tanks against small-caliber rounds instead.

    after fielding of modern MBTs like the abrams and leopard 2, however, things changed.
    HEAT can also function as an APERS HE round, due to the explosives.
    the main drawback of HEAT is the low muzzle velocity of only around 1000m/s making it inaccurate at long range, and makes hitting moving targets harder due to the longer flight time.

    the third round type is the HE-FRAG, or APERS round.

    nothing special here, its basically an oversized hand-grenade.
    its pretty effective against helicopters too, due to adjustable proximity fusing.

    fourth, is the flechette.
    BBC has an article on it:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2225706.stm
    its basically an oversized shotgun shell.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Whoa!
    thanks for the gr8 answer man
    btw, does HEAT and APERS rounds have the same "pass by" effect as the "fin" missile?
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    If there was any kind of a real war, you would not want to be in a tank.

    A tank can be charged to a point that it will detonate its own ammo. By use of chemical electrical energy. Delivered by a small hand held device.

    That is why tanks were not pursued by America for many years during the cold war.

    What you are witnessing is a police action, not a military action at all.

    Would you want to be in a tank, if it had a high voltage power line on it? No.
    So you would not want to be in a tank if it was hit with electrochemical charges.

    Right now you are watching low grade political negotiations, not war. Similar to World War Two. A game of Stretego with real people.


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    William McCormick
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    I never said I wanted to be in a tank.
    Actually, I rather be anywhere in the miliatery BUT at the tank devision.
    I mean... one strong mine and ure gone...
    At least when ure on your feet you can look where are you steppin` and be in full controll over your fate...
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    all of these claims about mines killing tanks, is flawed, and untrue.

    you'd need an IED charge of at least 200kg to be able to remotely come close to disabling a tank and killing part of the crew. there's videos on youtube where the road was literally lifted 3 meters into the air under an abrams, and the crew survived with minor bruisings.
    also, the new leopards have special mineprotection, such as suspended seats for the driver, and extra belly armour.
    the ammunition is compartmentalized, which means the ammunition is sealed behind 3cm thick walls, with blowoff panels designed to vent the explosion out through the roof instead of into the crew compartment.

    there's also multiple cases of the tank being on fire, or being penetrated by RPGs, and the crew being alive and well.

    and where do you get your tales about "chemical electrical energy"
    during my 7 years of studying tanks, i've never heard of such a device.

    as for HEAT and APERS having the same effects as sabot? yeah, i guess they do. they all move faster than sound.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Still, i rather be fully in charge then being stuck in a tank...
    I mean.. still an infentry with gr8 anti tank missile is not so random, and they can hide in pretty pesky locations so the tank crew wont notice them... indeed pesky...
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    the natural environment of a tank is in the open, while the infantry's natural battleground is the city.
    being "stuck" in a tank means you are protected by 50cm thick walls to the front, and 30cm thick walls on the side, you have a thermal imager sight which makes soldiers stand out like lightbulbs in a dark room,
    there's the 3x-12x magnification on the gunners primary sight, the commanders independent viewer, 2-3 machine guns, one slaved to the mainguns traverse and elevation (coax) which you can hit stuff with accurately at 1000 meters with a simple click of the lase button, and then a short depression of the fire button.
    one of the most heavily allround-protected tank in the world, the challenger, withstood multiple hits from RPGs, while being immobilized, and with a turret jam. a similar situation as an infantryman, it'd take a single grenade to finish everyone off.

    one of the most vaunted features of a modern main battle tank is "fire on the move capability".
    while the tank is moving, its actually possible to hit another moving target, at 2500m! although thats quite a feat, and it requires a good gunner.
    another good thing about tanks, is the fact you're moving at 45-70kph, instead of 5kph.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Yah.. but that way you dont get to show the gr8 skillz of yours.. y`know...
    I hope ure readin` me...
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    all of these claims about mines killing tanks, is flawed, and untrue.

    you'd need an IED charge of at least 200kg to be able to remotely come close to disabling a tank and killing part of the crew. there's videos on youtube where the road was literally lifted 3 meters into the air under an abrams, and the crew survived with minor bruisings.
    also, the new leopards have special mineprotection, such as suspended seats for the driver, and extra belly armour.
    the ammunition is compartmentalized, which means the ammunition is sealed behind 3cm thick walls, with blowoff panels designed to vent the explosion out through the roof instead of into the crew compartment.

    there's also multiple cases of the tank being on fire, or being penetrated by RPGs, and the crew being alive and well.

    and where do you get your tales about "chemical electrical energy"
    during my 7 years of studying tanks, i've never heard of such a device.

    as for HEAT and APERS having the same effects as sabot? yeah, i guess they do. they all move faster than sound.
    You can make small mines that will destroy a tank or the men inside. Magnetic mines, will also do it.


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    well, let me put it like this then: bullets ricochet. and the smaller they are, the more they ricochet. in a street fight on foot, you might as well be killed by a stray ricochet, as an aimed shot.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    And still i`d like my chances outside of vehicles such as tank or submarine...
    I dunno... being trapped in a tank when there`s something wrong doesnt quite talk to me...
    Besides, when outside there`s much more action
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    You can make small mines that will destroy a tank or the men inside. Magnetic mines, will also do it.
    well, thats why there is mine-rollers, mine-plows, and patrol vehicles with V-shaped hulls.
    there's also the fact that small mines carry small explosive charges, so theres a limit to their force, and generally that force needs to be concentrated so tightly that its more a gamble whether it actually kills or destroys anything.
    things have changed a LOT since the times of the sherman gasoline death-traps of WW2. at least in the western world.
    compartmentalized ammunition, and diesel fuel, plus halon extinguishers in every compartment has made fires a lot more extinguishable than before.
    the russkies are behind though on the crew survivability front.
    their tanks with compartmentalized ammunition is still on the experimental stages, such as the "black eagle" and T-95.

    a non-magnetic mine is more likely to be simply a "mobility kill" than anything serious. even an upgraded design from 1965, the leopard 1A5DK has driven over mines, and survived with nothing but loss of a roadwheel, and a blown track.
    and as for magnetic mines, depending on where under the hull it detonates,
    it may kill the driver, merely cause a fuel leak, or cause a mobility kill.
    theres a problem for magnetic mines on modern tank designs however,
    which is the 50cm thick slab of composites at the front hull.
    with the tank driving slowly, the mine might simply detonate, punch through 10-20cm, and fizzle out with no effect on the crew.

    so at most, against a modern tank, you might kill/injure 1 of the crewmembers with a magnetic mine, or immobilize the tank temporarily.
    a similar scenario with infantry, and an anti-personell HE-frag mine...
    well, go figure.
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    What is the anti-personel HE-frag mine thingie?
    how does it work?
    I hate mines and to not get killed by one I better know how it works, right?
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    oh, there are many variants of anti-personell mines, all designed to not be spotted until its too late.

    here's a few choice mines:

    http://www.fourmilab.ch/minerats/figures/mines.html

    although you can also create a makeshift APERS mine by attaching a HE-frag grenade to a tree with some duct tape, and attach a string to the arming pin.

    the utilization areas for mines is endless. it can be used to booby-trap roads, doorway entrances, woodland areas, alleyways, etc.
    so any confined area is a potential APERS mine location.

    knowing how the mine works is only going to help you in imagining how gruesome your death is going to be if you step/trip over one. what would be far more useful, is to imagine all the tactical utilizations of them.

    put simply, they all work very much like a tanks HE-frag round, which basically is an explosive core covered by a layer of thousands of small
    steel pellets/darts.

    this is in contrast to how an AT-round works, which is much more like a HEAT warhead, in that it has the explosives and copper liner, which shoots out a narrow beam that punches through inches of metal.

    really nothing more than physics. you want to concentrate as large a force as possible on as small an area as possible.
    unless your target is soft, in which case you can be far more liberal in the dispersion of force.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    eek! i`m gonna die of a mine!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    You can make small mines that will destroy a tank or the men inside. Magnetic mines, will also do it.
    well, thats why there is mine-rollers, mine-plows, and patrol vehicles with V-shaped hulls.
    there's also the fact that small mines carry small explosive charges, so theres a limit to their force, and generally that force needs to be concentrated so tightly that its more a gamble whether it actually kills or destroys anything.
    things have changed a LOT since the times of the sherman gasoline death-traps of WW2. at least in the western world.
    compartmentalized ammunition, and diesel fuel, plus halon extinguishers in every compartment has made fires a lot more extinguishable than before.
    the russkies are behind though on the crew survivability front.
    their tanks with compartmentalized ammunition is still on the experimental stages, such as the "black eagle" and T-95.

    a non-magnetic mine is more likely to be simply a "mobility kill" than anything serious. even an upgraded design from 1965, the leopard 1A5DK has driven over mines, and survived with nothing but loss of a roadwheel, and a blown track.
    and as for magnetic mines, depending on where under the hull it detonates,
    it may kill the driver, merely cause a fuel leak, or cause a mobility kill.
    theres a problem for magnetic mines on modern tank designs however,
    which is the 50cm thick slab of composites at the front hull.
    with the tank driving slowly, the mine might simply detonate, punch through 10-20cm, and fizzle out with no effect on the crew.

    so at most, against a modern tank, you might kill/injure 1 of the crewmembers with a magnetic mine, or immobilize the tank temporarily.
    a similar scenario with infantry, and an anti-personell HE-frag mine...
    well, go figure.
    Right now, the two sides fighting are kind of playing with paint ball guns. They are not using real weapons. It is just like playing cops and robbers, neither side is using top of the line equipment. Because the rules of engagement are set within a certain range. Did anyone see the time, the bank robbers that suited up in nomex, or siltemp, or some kind of glass wool, shot it out with the cops for hours? They raised the stakes a bit.

    If you actually saw a real magnetic mine work, you would know that the vehicle will not move again. Its metal parts will magneform, into new shapes. And depending on the type of mine, it could hurl the tank like a toy. And it would not have to be a big mine. It would be done with voltage, and repulsion.

    Tanks are just some kind of negotiating tool, that makes it difficult for the other side to voice their opinion. Without raising the stakes, waiting patiently for parts and supplies. America is gambling that the other side will lose support first. As they did in Vietnam.

    But a tank is actually only as effective as a policemen's handgun. It offers very little protection in actuality. That is why America did not even bother with any during the cold war. There were many more ways to stop them, then there were missions for them. Fools that backed them, were partially the reason for not wanting them. The fools that backed them, claimed that if our tanks failed we would look weak.

    Intelligent individuals at the time, were kind of thinking, if we are using tanks we are obviously very weak.

    You can make a pretty outrageous tank, but again, it would be to dangerous to our law makers to have in existence.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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    I hear that the "merkava" tank is currently the best in the world, is that right?
    I mean, someone told me that the israeli army has only these type of tanks, and their armour is like bullet ricochet special design and super armour n` things like this, can anyone care to tell me abit about this tank? please??
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    If you actually saw a real magnetic mine work, you would know that the vehicle will not move again. Its metal parts will magneform, into new shapes. And depending on the type of mine, it could hurl the tank like a toy. And it would not have to be a big mine. It would be done with voltage, and repulsion.
    thats some pretty outrageous claims you're making there.
    we barely have energy devices capable of forcing a pellet the size of a fingernail out at 1000m/s by magnetic force, and it takes considerable amounts of energy to do so. i'm sure you've heard of the railgun and coilgun, both have been sought for by militaries to be fitted onto tanks, but the energy demands are simply WAY too high to give any significant benefits to the tank wielding one.
    the navy however is experimenting with fitting railguns onto some of their future warships, since they have more space, to fit the enormous battery assemblies neccesary.

    only very recently have we developed battery technology capable of propelling a car 200km,
    and somehow you want me to believe the army is fielding a fantasy sci-fi weapon, tiny mines with enough force to hurl 60 tonnes of steel, fuel and ammunition into the air?
    yeah right bub, maybe in your fantasy conspiracy universe, but we're living in the real world over here.

    and to make matters even worse, you've completely messed up what a magnetic mine is.
    it is not a mine that destroys by utilization of magnetic force.
    its merely detonated by the strong magnetic field that a tank creates, simply by being made of steel, and then hurls a metal slug upwards into the tanks soft belly.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    hah, the merkava is a nearly legendary beast in tanker circles,
    much thanks to the secrecy which the israelis have shrouded it in.
    i know it was designed solely with its crews safety in mind.
    its a very special tank, not just because its a tank israel built itself, as a response to the tremendous losses sustained during the 1973 yom kippur war, and because britain didn't want to supply them with chieftains, but because its design is unique.
    unlike all other tanks in the world, it has a front mounted engine, which frees up space in the rear, for whatever the crew needs.
    when it was first revealed, the israelis was showing it off to a lot of generals from around the world, and to their amazement, a door on the rear hull of the tank opened, and out climbed 6 soldiers in full combat gear.
    as for its protection, it depends a lot on when the merkava was built.
    the merkava series has been in service for over 30 years now, and there are many different variants, the latest which is the merkava IV, which is also receiving upgrades.(its currently being fitted with a new active protection system called trophy, which renders it invulnerable to any type of ATGM, or RPG)
    trophy is basically an armoured radar, with some small shotgun charges on each side of the turret, that shoots incoming rounds, disabling their warheads, leaving the missiles to harmlessly splatter all over the tanks surface.
    its also being fitted to new western IFVs, to make the otherwise very vulnerable vehicles impervous to ATGMS and RPGs.
    couple that with improved belly armour mine protection, and yes, for the latest merkava, you pretty much have a machine pretty much unstoppable to anything else than another tank.
    or the 2.5 meter long, 310kg heavy maverick missile.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Waah!
    I just saw a Merkava IV picture and it does look like a frickin` beast!


    But how can you defeat a tank with that trophy mounted torrent?
    I mean... any incoming missle destroyed sounds kinda like fantasy world too...
    Or does it work only on RPG/ATGM missiles?

    Btw, if lets say you lookat at the picture and lets say there`s an arabi dude with an RPG at hand sneaking just near its rails... he can shoot anRPG directly to the tanks rails to disable it without the trophy going on, right?
    I mean, the trophy does have a reciving range and a limit afterall...

    tony
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    If you actually saw a real magnetic mine work, you would know that the vehicle will not move again. Its metal parts will magneform, into new shapes. And depending on the type of mine, it could hurl the tank like a toy. And it would not have to be a big mine. It would be done with voltage, and repulsion.
    thats some pretty outrageous claims you're making there.
    we barely have energy devices capable of forcing a pellet the size of a fingernail out at 1000m/s by magnetic force, and it takes considerable amounts of energy to do so. i'm sure you've heard of the railgun and coilgun, both have been sought for by militaries to be fitted onto tanks, but the energy demands are simply WAY too high to give any significant benefits to the tank wielding one.
    the navy however is experimenting with fitting railguns onto some of their future warships, since they have more space, to fit the enormous battery assemblies neccesary.

    only very recently have we developed battery technology capable of propelling a car 200km,
    and somehow you want me to believe the army is fielding a fantasy sci-fi weapon, tiny mines with enough force to hurl 60 tonnes of steel, fuel and ammunition into the air?
    yeah right bub, maybe in your fantasy conspiracy universe, but we're living in the real world over here.

    and to make matters even worse, you've completely messed up what a magnetic mine is.
    it is not a mine that destroys by utilization of magnetic force.
    its merely detonated by the strong magnetic field that a tank creates, simply by being made of steel, and then hurls a metal slug upwards into the tanks soft belly.
    Look if it is real to you that you are living the George Washington dream, so be it. I cannot change your mind, or make you see what I have seen.

    Maybe there are two types of magnetic mines? And you know about the magnetically triggered type. I know about the field generating type.

    However in magnetic fields matter has no strength. Armor, is as soft as wet tissue paper. To create a powerful magnetic field, it requires some energy, however, nothing that a tiny battery, along with mercury could not supply.
    This is old stuff, not new at all.
    Once a field is created, a small charge in that field causes outlandish energy discharges. Because we live in an all electron world. The magnetic field connects the small charge to anything in the magnetic field. Often the materials in the magnetic field, repel themselves to destruction, and become the bomb.

    This is what my generation and the following were supposed to be engineering with. And against. Instead the government called for an end to progressive education, and science.



    We have perpetual motion. I grew up in an Area building perpetual motion equipment. My family worked at those companies.
    They no longer exist, either in form, or even in history, to my knowledge. I lost the one picture I had, during my divorce.
    However they were and are real. I have seen them demonstrated. They flew them into the seventies.
    I watched one at an air-show, in Virginia. The no fuel, no bombing range limitation, aircraft built by Republic, in the late fifties. It was called the Hurrier. Not Harrier. All titanium skin.

    But all this stuff is very, very old stuff. I mean we had perpetual motion before World War Two.
    But it just seemed too scary to think that men would die in jeeps, tanks and planes, because our country would lose control of us, if we had perpetual motion.
    Also, after we went out of our way to destroy relations with our neighbors. To suddenly come out and admit to our public that our government is evil, during a war. And that our country did in fact hide, and attack perpetual motion. Would make us look weak to the enemies we just created. And renew hatred for England at home.
    And perhaps get us to not defend ourselves against them, as happened during World War One. It was all a careful political game.

    So perpetual motion just kind of, never materialized for everyone. It is still there waiting to be harnessed though.
    Except people like you do not want it, and fight it rather then ask how it is possible.
    You jump to defending conservation laws that are as silly as our law makers. I know you do not wish to know, and you are not alone, if that is any conciliation.

    Benjamin Franklin understood perpetual motion. And looked to harness it one day. That is why they have tried to destroy his work. His work is accurate. We today have the mislabeled stuff.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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    hm... if what you say is true then i suredly do wanna see one day a hurling tank xD
    btw, do you have any videos of this mine at smaller scale hurling?

    btw, aint it simpler jsut to use an EMP charge and assoult the tank with grenedes, mines, RPG`s n` shyt??


    *EDIT*
    ok, ive seen this video at you tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO5X_xTR6k0

    and it say that Germany`s leopard is num 1 tank in the world and merkava is like number 4... I`m confused...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    hm... if what you say is true then i suredly do wanna see one day a hurling tank xD
    btw, do you have any videos of this mine at smaller scale hurling?

    btw, aint it simpler jsut to use an EMP charge and assoult the tank with grenedes, mines, RPG`s n` shyt??


    *EDIT*
    ok, ive seen this video at you tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO5X_xTR6k0

    and it say that Germany`s leopard is num 1 tank in the world and merkava is like number 4... I`m confused...
    Grumman and Lockhead made a tank in the seventies. It was 25 feet wide and seventy five feet long. It fired pure uranium darts. It cruised at 75 miles an hour. And had a top speed of 90 miles an hour.

    We did not have hands on with this tank. So we cannot say if it would withstand one uranium dart or not. But usually when Grumman built something it could withstand one of it's own rounds and the crew would survive. We never saw the testing on it. Only the information of its build.


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    grumman and lockheed my stinking ass. those guys makes airplanes.
    yes, there was a big tank program during the 70s, called MBT-70, which was the precursor to the abrams. it was an overpriced, overengineered POS.
    a joint-program between USA and germany to create the best tank in the world. the guys from the states were general motors, and chrysler. and the guys from germany were rheinmetall and krauss maffei.

    the countries went both their separate ways, due to different requirements, and culminated in the leopard 2, and Abrams.

    and now you're on the perpetual motion drug.
    so you've invented a perpetual motion machine, that can generate energy from nothing. really? so how come you're not filty rich?
    how come you haven't solved the energy crisis?
    how come the militaries of the world isn't using perpetual motion motors in their tanks instead of wasteful diesel? sure would... remove the supply train problem, the eternal fueling? how come they haven't fitted railguns instead of stupid old chemical guns? how come i still have to pay my electric bill?
    answer: because nobodys been able to cheat nature of perpetual motion yet.

    as for a tank being 25 feet wide.. forget it. tanks are limited to 11 feet width over the tracks, due to rail transport limitations. even the germans super-heavy maus was only 11 feet wide.
    any tank being over 11 feet wide, you'll have massive drawbacks in transport costs, and maintenance costs.

    as for solid uranium darts.. uhm, the abrams does that. its called the M829. its solid uranium. the M829A1 is also solid, depleted uranium. but its longer. and the m829A2 is also solid depleted uranium. longer than the M829A1 though. and better propellant.
    front turret of the abrams can take a beating from solid uranium darts. multiple of them. probably 100. M829A2, not so sure. it depends on the abrams. some of the abramses are armoured with depleted uranium too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    hm... if what you say is true then i suredly do wanna see one day a hurling tank xD
    btw, do you have any videos of this mine at smaller scale hurling?

    btw, aint it simpler jsut to use an EMP charge and assoult the tank with grenedes, mines, RPG`s n` shyt??


    *EDIT*
    ok, ive seen this video at you tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO5X_xTR6k0

    and it say that Germany`s leopard is num 1 tank in the world and merkava is like number 4... I`m confused...
    thats a subjective test, not an objective one. truth is, merkava is one of the best. in a tank vs tank engagement, it won't really matter if you have a cupholder for your coffee or not. each of the top-tier tanks is capable of destroying another top-tier tank. the merkava is probably optimised for anti-HEAT warfare, with a lot of wedged, spaced armour on all sides.

    as for trophy, its not bullshit.
    here's a youtube video of it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1LOmm85cZ0
    if you're extremely lucky, one of the APS charges might misfire.

    EMP charges is bullshit. assaulting the tank with RPGs, grenades and mines is bullshit, you'll get coaxed by the 2-3 tanks following, or the dismounted troops providing cover for just such cases.
    you can surprise it with a blown track, and what you now have is a very deadly, invincible pillbox, that'll turn you into shish kebab once it gets its sights on you. and with 3 guys in the turret busy at all times looking at the outside world, that won't be long at all.

    sun tzu says: a wise man knows when to fight, and when not to fight.
    and if you're an infantryman, and your foe is a merkava, you do NOT fight.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Pardon my lack of testosterone...

    Depleted uranium. I understand this stuff has great "armour piercing" qualities. DU is apparently safe unless mishandled, like asbestos. And we unload tons of it in war. Meanwhile... civilians are firing charged anchors into concrete & stone, also mining... so many operations that are "armour piercing". Why no civilian use of DU?
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    because DU is safe to handle, its radiation does not penetrate the skin. but once it hits something solid, such as another tank, it sprays out a cloud of DU dust, which can cause serious complications if you breathe it in.
    several tankers who's taken victory photos around destroyed enemy iraqi tanks during gulf war 1, is suffering from "gulf war syndrome"
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    grumman and lockheed my stinking ass. those guys makes airplanes.
    yes, there was a big tank program during the 70s, called MBT-70, which was the precursor to the abrams. it was an overpriced, overengineered POS.
    a joint-program between USA and germany to create the best tank in the world. the guys from the states were general motors, and chrysler. and the guys from germany were rheinmetall and krauss maffei.

    the countries went both their separate ways, due to different requirements, and culminated in the leopard 2, and Abrams.

    and now you're on the perpetual motion drug.
    so you've invented a perpetual motion machine, that can generate energy from nothing. really? so how come you're not filty rich?
    how come you haven't solved the energy crisis?
    how come the militaries of the world isn't using perpetual motion motors in their tanks instead of wasteful diesel? sure would... remove the supply train problem, the eternal fueling? how come they haven't fitted railguns instead of stupid old chemical guns? how come i still have to pay my electric bill?
    answer: because nobodys been able to cheat nature of perpetual motion yet.

    as for a tank being 25 feet wide.. forget it. tanks are limited to 11 feet width over the tracks, due to rail transport limitations. even the germans super-heavy maus was only 11 feet wide.
    any tank being over 11 feet wide, you'll have massive drawbacks in transport costs, and maintenance costs.

    as for solid uranium darts.. uhm, the abrams does that. its called the M829. its solid uranium. the M829A1 is also solid, depleted uranium. but its longer. and the m829A2 is also solid depleted uranium. longer than the M829A1 though. and better propellant.
    front turret of the abrams can take a beating from solid uranium darts. multiple of them. probably 100. M829A2, not so sure. it depends on the abrams. some of the abramses are armoured with depleted uranium too.
    Years ago they outlawed the patenting of perpetual motion in England. Then they outlawed the patenting of perpetual motion here in the United States. Not that, this will keep me or anyone else from creating it, because we already have. But, perpetual motion is going to take a few great minds to safely deploy it into vehicles.

    Everything we have now was designed when perpetual motion was well known. Everything was designed to de-escalate rather then escalate. And rightly so. Because during ARC, (Anode, Rectified Cathode) you create a liquid diode just like a mercury rectifier. This reverses the direction of the flow, and can raise voltage from 1.5 volts to 30,000 volts in a fraction of a second.


    I believe that this is a DC rectifier in an old subway system.


    If you look at most point type, mechanical relays, you will see that they actually are underrated if they are required to break a motor that experiences a locked rotor condition. Most common relays will make 20-90 amps. But if you look at the specs, they are only rated to break 3-20 amps. The reason is ARC.

    When you go to design perpetual motion systems, you have to design a weak link. Something mechanical that can be disengaged manually. Rather then to rely on relays that can continue to send power across an air gap, upon failure.

    Making massive amounts of electricity is nothing to a decent electrician.

    Stopping it is the work of a great scientist. It can be done. It is just something that common parts made to handle it, are not available.
    Most of our safety comes from the Grid staying at one voltage. Something a perpetual motion system does not have the ability to do. But there are ways to make it safe.

    Currently I create one cycle of perpetual motion energy from one cycle of battery power. Meaning that I draw a specific amount of power from a battery.
    And during the time I light a bulb, with battery power. I for free charge a capacitor in series with the battery and bulb. When I am done, I can then power the bulb with an identical amount of power, for the same time period.

    But to go further, and I have is dangerous. Old union electricians know how to do it. It is also a common lethal explosive accident, that is why they aught to know.

    I built such a device on the recommendation of a Union electrician many years ago. It is very real. And very scary when you actually see it run. And realize what is keeping you safe.

    I had done some experiments for a guy who went by the name of DZNEWS. I filmed them I will post them. He asked me to try any experiment in the world to disprove perpetual motion. So I did them, and everything shows perpetual motion. I also was busting his chops in the movie.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Electricit...ual/twocap.wmv
    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Electricity/wattdoubler.WMV

    In this last movie, I did not have time to tune the circuit, but the difference is only one 1/100th of a volt. And you can see in the movie before that it can be tuned.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Electricity/DZNEWStest.WMV


    You have to understand that years ago the first thing you had to learn working with electricity was, perpetual motion, and ARC. Today they say it does not exist. Wow! It must be much safer now. Ha-ha.

    That is why when you hear, scientists say that it does not exist, it is actually so sad, that you cannot even get angry at someone that beaten down.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    hm... if what you say is true then i suredly do wanna see one day a hurling tank xD
    btw, do you have any videos of this mine at smaller scale hurling?

    btw, aint it simpler jsut to use an EMP charge and assoult the tank with grenedes, mines, RPG`s n` shyt??


    *EDIT*
    ok, ive seen this video at you tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO5X_xTR6k0

    and it say that Germany`s leopard is num 1 tank in the world and merkava is like number 4... I`m confused...
    thats a subjective test, not an objective one. truth is, merkava is one of the best. in a tank vs tank engagement, it won't really matter if you have a cupholder for your coffee or not. each of the top-tier tanks is capable of destroying another top-tier tank. the merkava is probably optimised for anti-HEAT warfare, with a lot of wedged, spaced armour on all sides.

    as for trophy, its not bullshit.
    here's a youtube video of it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1LOmm85cZ0
    if you're extremely lucky, one of the APS charges might misfire.

    EMP charges is bullshit. assaulting the tank with RPGs, grenades and mines is bullshit, you'll get coaxed by the 2-3 tanks following, or the dismounted troops providing cover for just such cases.
    you can surprise it with a blown track, and what you now have is a very deadly, invincible pillbox, that'll turn you into shish kebab once it gets its sights on you. and with 3 guys in the turret busy at all times looking at the outside world, that won't be long at all.

    sun tzu says: a wise man knows when to fight, and when not to fight.
    and if you're an infantryman, and your foe is a merkava, you do NOT fight.
    An EMP pulse can reach the entire earth. And the equipment to do it, is not very large.

    Electromagnetic pulses, are amazing, and they used to be well engineered around in electrical equipment.

    A tank is made of electricity. Held in spherical capsules.

    Tank warfare was over before it began. It was just a sort of, well, they are not using the super weapons, lets bring some tanks out and see what happens. The rest is history.

    You might as well stand out in your under ware, on the battle field then feel safe in a tank, during a real war.

    All we are doing now is negotiating with police force. Some of the old Grumman Intruders were equipped with a Uranium slug cannon. It was supposed to only be used in case of serious breach of our borders.

    They fired it into the earth and say that it created a 70 foot deep hole in the ground, six feet across. Imagine what the German V3 giant dart would have done to England if they had fired it?

    Uranium is not dangerous until you let it oxidize. Then it is a very powerful poison. If those guys are suffering from Uranium oxide poisoning, they just need to do some Thorium tungsten electron beam welding before scaring is too great. It will destroy the Uranium.

    That is why we use the Thoriated tungsten. It is the most active, so you can sense its presence right away and make repairs to your equipment. It creates rays that actually burn out other more slowly disintegrating radio active elements, like Urnaium.

    Your body can sustain massive amounts of radiation, with little or no damage. But the lingering contaminants are what tend to get you.

    Before World War Two the Germans begged us not to use Uranium in manufacturing. Because once it is created, if allowed to oxidize under high temperature conditions. A fusion chaining of Carbon may occur. And could lead to horrifying results for earth.

    Osama Bin Laden was reported to have over twenty pounds of Uranium, that is more then enough to create a poison radio active gas to cover the earth.


    Here is Thorium Tungsten that I was checking with a Geiger Counter.
    http://www.Rockwelder.com/WMV/geigerthorium.wmv

    Even thorium tungsten under the right conditions will also create massive amounts of radio active gas, through carbon chaining fusion.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  68. #67  
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    navy railgun project.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OqlTXwLG40

    check the capacitor storage banks they have there.
    you say that can be fitted into a mine?
    oh and that railgun isn't even close to the theoretical limits.
    its only firing projectiles at 2200m/s, only 400m/s faster than the fastest tank round.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    are you talking about neutron bombs?
    the russians did some attempts to shield their tanks against neutron radiation, but i have no idea how effective it is. its basically 15cm thick slabs of lead everywhere inside the interior.
    all modern tanks also has an NBC overpressure system, that filters and cleans irradiated or intoxicated air.

    as an infantryman, you're a sitting duck for a neutron bomb.
    in a tank, you at least have a chance to move further from the the bomb before impact.

    EMP effects can be minimized with faraday cages.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    navy railgun project.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OqlTXwLG40

    check the capacitor storage banks they have there.
    you say that can be fitted into a mine?
    oh and that railgun isn't even close to the theoretical limits.
    its only firing projectiles at 2200m/s, only 400m/s faster than the fastest tank round.
    I don't believe that gun is designed well. If you use electrochemical energy you could power it rather easily. And or lengths of silver wire. It would probably be a one shot deal though.

    Either way it is just more nonsense. George Washington was going to build guns to fire on England. But opted to get farming back in hand.

    A regular gun can hurl a round intercontinental. Sadam was going to use his big gun to launch his own satellites. I believe they already launch satellites with guns now. Certainly this is far enough to reach across the ocean.

    But a mine would be a one shot deal. No reuse in mind. Small electrochemical charges would do that and more.

    When you slam a round that has an electrochemical charge in it, against a tank, you charge the tank, with very high voltage. About thirty thousand volts.

    But a magnetic mine, would use a magnetic field to amplify the electrochemical charge.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    because DU is safe to handle, its radiation does not penetrate the skin. but once it hits something solid, such as another tank, it sprays out a cloud of DU dust, which can cause serious complications if you breathe it in.
    We do many jobs requiring gas mask, though. Disposable coveralls, face shield, the whole costume. I've worked with asbestos. We know how to reduce dust, contain it, mop it. Surely DU is relatively safe in the hands of trained workers. While waiting for civilian DU we've got guys demolishing reinforced concrete by pushing rods of burning thermite into it.

    Seems the military hoards this technology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    are you talking about neutron bombs?
    the russians did some attempts to shield their tanks against neutron radiation, but i have no idea how effective it is. its basically 15cm thick slabs of lead everywhere inside the interior.
    all modern tanks also has an NBC overpressure system, that filters and cleans irradiated or intoxicated air.

    as an infantryman, you're a sitting duck for a neutron bomb.
    in a tank, you at least have a chance to move further from the the bomb before impact.

    EMP effects can be minimized with faraday cages.
    There are no neutrons. I have no idea what they mean. When they say neutron bomb.
    It is probably just a liquefied gas, with a high explosive core, that creates a lot of radiation, like the sun but, not a million miles away.

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    William McCormick
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  73. #72  
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    There are no neutrons. I have no idea what they mean. When they say neutron bomb.
    It is probably just a liquefied gas, with a high explosive core, that creates a lot of radiation, like the sun but, not a million miles away.
    according to wikipedia:
    A neutron bomb, or enhanced radiation bomb (ER weapon), is a fission-fusion thermonuclear weapon in which the burst of neutrons generated by the fusion reaction is intentionally not absorbed inside the weapon, but allowed to escape.

    the only weapons that fit your description, is a thermonuclear weapon.
    i'm not an expert on these weapons, so take it with a grain of salt when i've never heard of one in mine format.
    although i know they could deliver nuclear warheads by gun and rockets.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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  74. #73  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    because DU is safe to handle, its radiation does not penetrate the skin. but once it hits something solid, such as another tank, it sprays out a cloud of DU dust, which can cause serious complications if you breathe it in.
    We do many jobs requiring gas mask, though. Disposable coveralls, face shield, the whole costume. I've worked with asbestos. We know how to reduce dust, contain it, mop it. Surely DU is relatively safe in the hands of trained workers. While waiting for civilian DU we've got guys demolishing reinforced concrete by pushing rods of burning thermite into it.

    Seems the military hoards this technology.
    well, depleted uranium is made from nuclear power plant waste.
    if a civilian contractor showed interest, and started pushing for this technology, it could become common.
    i think the main problem is that its unknown among most of the investors.
    or maybe its already in development. who knows.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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