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Thread: Dark Matter Picture

  1. #1 Dark Matter Picture 
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    This is from a magazine article: You should be able to read it, but if you can't, its a picture from the Max Plank Institute for Astrophysics showing dark matter in a 3.3 Billion light year wide representative picture. The picture explains how dark matter likes to accumulate around areas of matter in order to prevent dark energy from pulling them apart. The picture was created through a network of supercomputers that they use to create visual representations like this. As far as I know, this is one of the first, if not the first picture of something like this.



    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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  3. #2 Not real picture 
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    As stated in your post and in the magazine article...This is NOT A REAL IMAGE!! it has been CREATED by a simulation ran on a supercomputer by german scientists to show their representation of how much dark matter they believe exists in the universe.

    As has been stated elsewhere on these forums and in scientific journals, Dark matter and dark energy are totally hypothetical and were thought up only to account for the immense expansion of space and the fact that the universe is expanding faster and farther and will never fall back into itself.

    According to our modern calculations this cannot be possible with our current understanding of gravity without adding extra matter that doesn't exist to account for the discrepancy.

    Some scientist however are challenging this. They are instead proposing that mathematics involved with the effects of gravity need to be updated instead of making up some sort of "DARK" matter that we cannot detect by any means known to man.

    Instead of making up some unmeasurable and unexplainable force we should base our calculations on what we know exists. We have had this problem before, Man's insatiable desire to invent stories or 'forces' to explain away what we don't fully understand, and now it is affecting our scientific methods just as it has done in the past.

    History is repeating itself again.


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    Actually, I have seen solid evidence on its existence; such as measurements on certain objects like planets revolving around stars. What they measured seemed to perfectly indicate that there is matter near by, only that we cannot see it. Dark matter seems like a very reasonable theory to me, specially when compared to other explanations of considerably greater complexity that would otherwise have to be used.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

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    Use your computing strength for science!
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  5. #4  
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    The computer code used to generate the image in that article is the same one used to generate my avatar.
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Actually, I have seen solid evidence on its existence; such as measurements on certain objects like planets revolving around stars. What they measured seemed to perfectly indicate that there is matter near by, only that we cannot see it. Dark matter seems like a very reasonable theory to me, specially when compared to other explanations of considerably greater complexity that would otherwise have to be used.
    All that has been proven is that currently we can only account for the expansion of the universe by adding more matter because we are still using Newtonian gravity, which is widely known to be misguided. Newton thought gravity was a force between matter that weakens over distance and is stronger for larger objects. While it did appear that way for him, and his calculation were very effective, we now know that there is no such thing as gravity, rather, the effect we call gravity comes from the curvature of space around massive objects.

    Now, Newton gathered that for two objects of the same mass and volume, no matter where they were in the galaxy the "gravity" would be the same. This would be true if gravity were indeed a 'force'.

    However, if you have one object of the same mass and volume closer to the core of the galaxy, the amount of curvature of space caused by that object would be different than it's twin near the edge of the galaxy. 'Gravity' should be recalculated as a much more faceted equation than what Newton was able to provide us with.

    Some mathematicians have formulated these very equations, which totally removes the need for dark matter to account for the expansion of space or the behavior of cluster collisions, while still adhering to all of the other aspects of 'gravitational' physics that have been observed in the past.

    To me it seems way more complex to suggest that there is some sort of 'invisible' matter floating around in the universe that we have never detected in any 'visible' or 'invisible' spectrum
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    Ok, sounds good. I'm not on any scientists side when it comes to this; I just follow whatever sounds most reasonable. More work needs to be published on other theories.

    Where can you get the code? Do you have to physically modify the code to get it to do what you want? What kind of computer does it take to run basic simulations using it?
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

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    Use your computing strength for science!
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  8. #7  
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    call me spectularly uninformed; apart from reading science fiction and watching pop science documentaries, but if you accept one of the explainations of the weekness of gravity (namely that gravitons are not bound to the membrane that our universe exists on )

    and accept also that our membrane exist in close proximity to many other membranes in the bulk

    doent this not suggest an explaination for the nature of dark matter?

    isnt it suggestable that the mapping of dark matter and its lensing effect on light, and its reinforcing effects the spin of a galaxy can all be explained by the reciprocal effects of neighbouring membranes with their own topology of galaxy sized clusters of mass which just like membrane bleed gravitons across the bulk to interact with our membrane?

    the 'mapping' of dark matter then become a map not of the density of DM in our universe but the influx of gravitons from the combination of the topology of mass in nearby membranes and also the proximity of said membranes to ours.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by short_n_buff
    call me spectularly uninformed; apart from reading science fiction and watching pop science documentaries, but if you accept one of the explainations of the weekness of gravity (namely that gravitons are not bound to the membrane that our universe exists on )

    and accept also that our membrane exist in close proximity to many other membranes in the bulk

    doent this not suggest an explaination for the nature of dark matter?

    isnt it suggestable that the mapping of dark matter and its lensing effect on light, and its reinforcing effects the spin of a galaxy can all be explained by the reciprocal effects of neighbouring membranes with their own topology of galaxy sized clusters of mass which just like membrane bleed gravitons across the bulk to interact with our membrane?

    the 'mapping' of dark matter then become a map not of the density of DM in our universe but the influx of gravitons from the combination of the topology of mass in nearby membranes and also the proximity of said membranes to ours.
    Huh? Wha--?

    what "membranes"?
    "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
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  10. #9 dark matter and membranes in the bulk 
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    the reference to membranes in my ramblings is part of string theory in that to my understanding the entire universe can be theorised as a single string (normally subatomic) which has expanded to form a membrane to which most 'matter' in our universe is joined to.

    the membrane or 'brane' that our universe exists on, coexists with other branes side by side in higher dimensional space labeled bulk. analogies of slices of bread in a loaf has been used to describe this idea of a multiverse.

    basically im saying that if gravitons which unlike most other matter/particles/strings' are free to leave our membrane/universe (an accepted reason for the otherwise unexplained weakness of gravity)

    then conversely our membrane should experiencing the effects of the gravitons from nearby membranes, which to my way of thinking would be expected to manifest as phantom mass that would be undetectable except in its effects on visible matter in our universe, ie dark matter.
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  11. #10  
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    Did you think of that? I like the idea, It seems very reasonable...that is, assuming that membranes exist. Any solid evidence for the existence of membranes?

    BTW, OT, but I have to say this. COULD EVERYONE PLEASE STOP USING SARCASM ON THIS FORUM. The basis of sarcasm is in your tone, which is verbally non existent here! Yes, you can formulate a tone through proper use of diction, but no one here apparently is capable of that! THANK YOU.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

    http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

    Use your computing strength for science!
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  12. #11  
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    I read somewhere that string theory has been proven largely inaccurate.
    "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
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  13. #12  
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    I read about a membrane theory separate of string theory; It says that each membrane is a piece of pure energy, and that when it collides with another membrane, forms matter from its energy. Each collision would be a universe.
    There are also many speculations based off of this dealing with using the membranes to travel through space past light speed.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

    http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

    Use your computing strength for science!
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  14. #13 membranes and superstring theory 
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    i think at least one version of string theory has fallen out of favour with current thinking but the version im taking ideas from is often called superstring theory i guess to identify it as different.

    as all these theorys are pretty speculative im not sure of any concrete evidence or even experiments that are likely to produce definative proof either way on them. i think its more a matter of their predictive power on what we see/or dont see in the universe.

    it also theorises that as you suggest Cold Fusion, the big bang was a result of two membranes meeting and may possibly be a recurring event so that each time it happens, the conditions postulated to occure at the start of the universe would reoccure. im not sure if this means a total restart of the entire universe or just a new point of origin for massive expansion within this universe?
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  15. #14  
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    Which universe? A universe like ours, or do you mean like the hypothetical universe that the membranes reside in? I think that the theory suggests that multiple universes exist at once due to the membrane collisions. Each universe is separate from the next, and has independent laws of physics.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

    http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

    Use your computing strength for science!
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  16. #15 superstring theory and the multiverse 
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    as every hypothesis is based on observation, and as we have yet to see outside of our own universe, i do indeed mean this universe

    our home universe would be one of the membranes within the bulk and if dark matter were seen as the influx of gravitons from other universes, that would be evidence that they also exist in the higher dimentional bulk.

    it is actually sobering to be reminded that we are talking about the world around us not some disembodied realm of theory.
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  17. #16  
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    i was reading a book somewere a while ago where they had an actual picture of dark matter made by measureing the bend in light between clustered pieces of dark matter by observing the bend in light caused by gravity they made a picture dont know if it is true or not just putting it out there.
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  18. #17 dark matter 'map' 
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    sad as it sounds iv got that picture as my computer background atm its sort of what reminds me to think about issues beyond my next paycheck.

    thou it is a great tool, i think it may not be a totally accurate representation of whats really there. mainly depending on the parameters they apply to their calculations, plus i think they would be basing it mainly on the higher than expected spin rate of galaxies etc rather than the lensing effects simply because the lensing effects are far less easy to see and quantify.

    maddog do you know what book it was, all iv seen is the actual picture so im just guessing the details as to how they produced it, you probably know more about it than i do.
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  19. #18  
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    Just thought i'd add my "uninformed" help:

    http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php this will help on 10d string theory (having said that im not sure that what was refered to as "superstring theory" was the 10d version or 11d version - believe me both are so different from each other a watergun wouldnt do justice!.)

    The picture for which you hope to discredit/explore (i dont know which)was taken from a massive simlation project based on the origin of 10bil particles or our space and converted using the known laws of science backwards to:

    http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/galfo...go/millennium/

    by the virgo consortium rest upon the unknown laws of dark matter. Please research this before you decide itsrubbish and that you, knowing nothing about physics or where this has come from, decide to go "meh"!
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    I read about a membrane theory separate of string theory; It says that each membrane is a piece of pure energy, and that when it collides with another membrane, forms matter from its energy. Each collision would be a universe.
    There are also many speculations based off of this dealing with using the membranes to travel through space past light speed.
    That was I who came up with the pure energy collision theory.

    They would be particles that have infinite density and when they collide with each other in some "higher" membrane, they form a new universe in a separate "membrane." Mind you these "membranes" exists within the same space.

    I shall provide a link to my somewhat childish rantings. I feel compelled to say childish because I am insecure about my age...It may also seem a bit poetic at times an less scientific. Well hopefully you read with an open mind.

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...eory+everyting

    I didn't quite label them as energy particles but rather labeled them as IDP particles or infinitely dense particles.
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  21. #20  
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    i am pretty sure it was in a national geographic in my 8th grade roll class(also my science class)
    In life it is not the destination that matters,but the journey there.
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