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Thread: Random? Does it exist?

  1. #1 Random? Does it exist? 
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    I'm just wondering about the concept of randomness. Does it actually exist? Can most (all?) random occurences be predicted by very very complex mathematics which we are yet to figure out?

    Barry


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    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    If you can predict the uncertaincy principle, knowing randomess will be a stones throw away. Then again if we know it will happen how can it be random? Paradox! streamSystems!!!!


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    i suppose predicting the outcome of an event where all outcomes have an equal probability. your prediciton would be totally random as there is no mathematical basis on which to pick.
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    I meant more in the world of physical physics (probably the most stupid statement I will ever make!)... Things like entropy (which I know little about so if someone could explain I would be very greatful!)?

    Barry
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  6. #5  
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    I imagine if everything obeyed the uncertainity principle, then it could be possible to predict what will happen. so in that way nothing would be random.
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  7. #6  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Flannery
    I meant more in the world of physical physics (probably the most stupid statement I will ever make!)... Things like entropy (which I know little about so if someone could explain I would be very greatful!)?

    Barry
    You mean why an electron may suddenly move for no apparent reason? Or that.

    Entropy is (textbook answer), a measure of the unavailability of a system’s energy to do work. In other words, this set of particles in this drink has jack all so it will get warm when around another warmer object.

    Better explanation. When you want to go out, but you can't, reasons:

    I'm tired.
    I'm dying.

    The measurement of this in reference to your being able to go out is basically what entropy is.

    PS techies, I'm aware that this is not a scientific explanation, but it is a black and white one, much easier to grasp.

    Barry, here is a link to entropy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

    Yes it is a Wikipedia link.
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    Forum Bachelors Degree Shaderwolf's Avatar
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    This delves into the realms of conciousness. Are our actions predetermined? Everything leads up to that one something? I'm going somewhere with this.
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    Forum Junior SolomonGrundy's Avatar
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    yes random is the result in with all potential results are equal like us humans and our way of life.
    Solomon Grundy
    In 1944, this creature rose from the swamp, with tremendous strength and some dormant memories that for example allowed him to speak English, but not knowing what he was, and not remembering Cyrus Gold or his fate. Wandering throughout the swamp, he encountered two escaped criminals, killed them, and took their clothes. When they asked him his name, he simply muttered that he had been born on Monday. Reminded of an old nursery rhyme about a man born on Monday, the thugs named the creature "Solomon Grundy".
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  10. #9  
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    I supponce random is the basic concept for all reactive-reasoning entities.
    I described a software engine able to exprime time concept.
    CAUSE it, random have to be a base of all things concerning ALL.
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  11. #10  
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    Of course random exists, just have a look at the posts of Solomon "The Cool" Grundy!
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  12. #11  
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    Obviously
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Of course random exists, just have a look at the posts of Solomon "The Cool" Grundy!
    what is eating you
    Answer nothing
    Random = nothing what cannot be calculated
    Solomon Grundy
    In 1944, this creature rose from the swamp, with tremendous strength and some dormant memories that for example allowed him to speak English, but not knowing what he was, and not remembering Cyrus Gold or his fate. Wandering throughout the swamp, he encountered two escaped criminals, killed them, and took their clothes. When they asked him his name, he simply muttered that he had been born on Monday. Reminded of an old nursery rhyme about a man born on Monday, the thugs named the creature "Solomon Grundy".
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    Action = Reaction. That's all I have to say
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  15. #14  
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    If it looks like a troll, if it writes like a troll...
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolomonGrundy
    Random = nothing what cannot be calculated
    i have a 'RANDOM' button on my calculator ...
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  17. #16  
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    Get it fixed then! :wink:
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  18. #17  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    that would be rather ... uhm how shall i say it ... random behaviour ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  19. #18  
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    Well if you leave it as it is, you just never know what it will add in to your calculations!
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  20. #19  
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    Random? Does it exist?
    Isn't that what Chaos Theory tackles? Meaning, simply, yes?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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  21. #20  
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    So every entity could be described through a matematical equation ?
    All this questions 2 ?
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  22. #21  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    i seem to remember there's some people in the physics world who think that only a small portion of the way the universe behaves can be captured through equations - the bits that we currently understand as the laws of nature

    beyond that there's plenty of everyday chaotic behaviour that our best equations can't handle - you could try computers of course, but just look at the weather forecasts and you'll see the limitations of trying to predict a chaotic system in the long run
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  23. #22  
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    Is not the weather a "matematical equation" that allows to predict different behaviors like the growing of the plants or the production of wine in a nation? If you consider this, you have to admit that there are for sure ways to predict in a matematic way all things concerning our lives. Generally time is a good starting point to reach deterministic conclusions about everything.

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  24. #23  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    no - a computer program is not the same as an equation
    it is a complex interplay of subroutines, loops, if-else decision points with the occasional equation thrown in for good measure

    an equation could better be compared with a computer function with a number of inputs but only one output

    as you or may not know programs may use functions and subroutines but the whole is more than the sum if its parts
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  25. #24  
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    A computer software that describe a condition of ramdomness IS an equation.
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  26. #25  
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    Computer softwarecannot generate anything random, it is all seeded in logic, nothing about the opreation of a PC is random it is ALL carefully controlled, it appears to be random but that is only over the short term. the term Psuedo-random is correct.
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  27. #26  
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    I supponce that the pseudo-random engine is definible as Random self...cause it is controlleb by random.
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  28. #27  
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    The seed for the random generator is usually the number of timer ticks since you switched on, these ticks are every 18 milliseconds.

    Each time you use the 'random' generator it will use a different seed until you next use the PC. so if on two consequtive days you switch on and to the millisecond use the program you will get the same number.
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  29. #28  
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    I think so
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  30. #29  
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    This is the typical unanswerable question of either destiny or luck.
    I am.
    You can't deny it.
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  31. #30  
    Forum Junior SolomonGrundy's Avatar
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    Like your computer if you do not know the seed it look random to you !!
    So there is no random just a complex way to get some results.
    Solomon Grundy
    In 1944, this creature rose from the swamp, with tremendous strength and some dormant memories that for example allowed him to speak English, but not knowing what he was, and not remembering Cyrus Gold or his fate. Wandering throughout the swamp, he encountered two escaped criminals, killed them, and took their clothes. When they asked him his name, he simply muttered that he had been born on Monday. Reminded of an old nursery rhyme about a man born on Monday, the thugs named the creature "Solomon Grundy".
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolomonGrundy
    Like your computer if you do not know the seed it look random to you !!
    So there is no random just a complex way to get some results.
    Yes, congratulations, now if you can keep all your posts lucid....
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by SolomonGrundy
    Like your computer if you do not know the seed it look random to you !!
    So there is no random just a complex way to get some results.
    Yes, congratulations, now if you can keep all your posts lucid....
    well then stop crying like a dumbass
    Solomon Grundy
    In 1944, this creature rose from the swamp, with tremendous strength and some dormant memories that for example allowed him to speak English, but not knowing what he was, and not remembering Cyrus Gold or his fate. Wandering throughout the swamp, he encountered two escaped criminals, killed them, and took their clothes. When they asked him his name, he simply muttered that he had been born on Monday. Reminded of an old nursery rhyme about a man born on Monday, the thugs named the creature "Solomon Grundy".
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  34. #33  
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    Again your answer.
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  35. #34  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope MagiMaster's Avatar
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    Quantum physics says that the universe is fundamentally random. You can create a qubit in a state that, when measured, will give you 0 or 1 with a truly random 50/50 chance (and no, this doesn't come from a lack of understanding, as we are now understanding that it really is random). In fact, that's an often overlooked benifit of quantum computers. When they are finally developed, there will be no more need for pseudo-random number generators or hardware random number generators or tables of random numbers. I'd be willing to bet that a random bit/byte function would be a native instruction on such machines.
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