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Thread: Computer models for mechanical processes

  1. #1 Computer models for mechanical processes 
    Forum Freshman Natalia's Avatar
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    Do you make your research with the help of computer?
    I research dynamics of mechanical systems, both discrete and distributed. Equations which I need to solve for analyzing dynamic processes are very complicated. It’s impossible to solve them analytically. So I need to create a numerical model for my mechanical system.
    Do you know programs for investigating mechanical systems?
    I know some mathematical programs such as Mathematics, Maple, MathCad. But I’ve never met soft for physicists.
    I’ll be glad if you describe soft which you work with.


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  3. #2  
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    I've only used the equation crunchers like Mathcad. I think most complex modeling software is purpose built isn't it. I mean, how would you get something off the shelf to model say, radiation scatter in atmospheric compounds?


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  4. #3  
    Forum Masters Degree bit4bit's Avatar
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    I agree. Most complex computing in industry is built for a very specific purpose. I would imagine that alot of companies would hire an exclusive team of software engineers to meet a specific program criteria. Putting them one above the others.

    There are some general programs out there though, but they are general and are expensive.

    You might try MATLAB, or Mathematica for computing. Other useful programs for mechanics (specifically part design and assembly) might be Solidworks 2007, and AutoCAD. These programs are already very heavy duty, and are used in actual industry to the extent of supercomputing applications. You can run them on a standard system though (Mathematica and Solidworks have both ran on mine before), but not to the fullest extent.

    I do remember seeing an openly available program at some point, that was similar to solidworks, except given some input parameters, would simulate stress/pressure/temperature/... levels on a specific working assembly, but cannot remeber the name. There may also be similar open programs to this relating to areas such as computational fluid dynamics too, but again because of the heavy resource requirements, they are often quite limiter without your own supercomputer.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman Natalia's Avatar
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    GhostofMaxwell
    I agree, complex processes need complex specific modeling. I can create model “on paper” and analyze it, simplify it until I get some equations which I need to solve and illustrate results. On this stage – solving equations – I need computer help. Can MathCad solve equation systems with partial derivative and give graphic behavior of solution in time?

    bit4bit

    Thank you. I’ll find Solidworks and try to use this soft.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    I agree, complex processes need complex specific modeling. I can create model “on paper” and analyze it, simplify it until I get some equations which I need to solve and illustrate results. On this stage – solving equations – I need computer help. Can MathCad solve equation systems with partial derivative and give graphic behavior of solution in time?
    I dont really know(I suspect it wont really help you there). All I know is it can go as far as solving second/trigonometric derivatives, and display in graph form with tangents. Its just a slick equation solver to my iknowledge, so if you cant do it on paper slower, I dont think it will help.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    BTW No offense, but you look too young and pretty to be a fully qualified scientist.
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  8. #7  
    Forum Masters Degree bit4bit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia
    GhostofMaxwell
    I agree, complex processes need complex specific modeling. I can create model “on paper” and analyze it, simplify it until I get some equations which I need to solve and illustrate results. On this stage – solving equations – I need computer help. Can MathCad solve equation systems with partial derivative and give graphic behavior of solution in time?
    I'm fairly certain that Mathematica will let you do this. You will be able to graph the solution of the partial derivatives over time, and have a slider to control the time, and see the results on the graph. To be fair though I never really liked using this program - it has its own scripting language to set up computations, and I found it too much of a learning curve to use. That really isn't something I wanted to fill my head with.

    You could also try Autograph, which I think is quite extensive nowadays. It is also MUCH easier to use than Mathematica, and you should be able to sketch partial derivatives on a 3D co-ordinate system, and read off values accurately etc....

    So.... is that you in the avatar?... :wink:
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  9. #8  
    Forum Freshman Natalia's Avatar
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    GhostofMaxwell
    Thanks for a compliment. Did you think that all scientists are old, bald and wrinkled? Now you know it isn’t like this.
    But I’m not fully qualified, I’m learning still….

    bit4bit
    I tried Mathematica once but it seems to me this soft is complicated to use. But if Autograph and Solidworks will not help I’ll have to learn scripts for Mathematica. :?

    Yes, it’s me! Will my posts not be taken seriously in this forum because I don’t look like Einstein? Think I’ll need to change avatar
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  10. #9  
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia
    Did you think that all scientists are old, bald and wrinkled? Now you know it isn’t like this.
    No, its just you dont even look 20 but you sound like at least a phD.
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  11. #10  
    Forum Masters Degree bit4bit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia
    Yes, it’s me! Will my posts not be taken seriously in this forum because I don’t look like Einstein? Think I’ll need to change avatar
    So long as you don't start making cryptic, pseudoscience posts in the physics forum, then I'm sure you'll be taken seriously.

    Besides, you're much nicer to look at than Einsteins old mug
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  12. #11  
    Forum Ph.D. Cat1981(England)'s Avatar
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    Sounds to me as if Bit4bit and GhostofMaxwell would be willing to write that program your after if you asked them, as soon as they finish cleaning the drool off of their keyboards.
    Eat Dolphin, save the Tuna!!!!
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  13. #12  
    Forum Professor river_rat's Avatar
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    Natalia - when you say complicated PDE's what do you mean? Are we talking a system of non-linear equations or a large sparce parabolic system as the method you use depends on the equations in question. Also is your domain boundary strangely shaped?
    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
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  14. #13  
    Forum Freshman Natalia's Avatar
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    GhostofMaxwell
    No I’m not a PhD. I graduated University and my diploma was connected with mathematics and mechanics, so I know a bit.

    bit4bit

    You flatter me.
    What do you mean “pseudoscience”? Statements which are not proved by physic laws? What about sciencefiction? There are many posts on that topic in this forum

    Cat1981(England)
    Are you envy?

    river_rat

    I mean both linear and nonlinear systems which don’t have methods for solution in general. Moreover often system is impossible to solve exactly without approximate methods. My domain boundary is simple
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  15. #14  
    Forum Freshman Natalia's Avatar
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    I’ve found Solidworks in internet but full pack has too much size I can’t download it!
    I’ve also found that OpenGL can produce various graphic visualizations. Does somebody work with OpenGL?
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  16. #15  
    Forum Masters Degree bit4bit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia
    GhostofMaxwell
    Cat1981(England)
    Are you envy?
    :P

    By pseudoscience, Yes, I mean things that are made out to be scientific, but are not actually backed up by verifiable laws/data.
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  17. #16  
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia
    GhostofMaxwell
    No I’m not a PhD. I graduated University and my diploma was connected with mathematics and mechanics, so I know a bit.
    Yeah I'm only half way through a degree myself(Physics), I'm so sorry I couldn't help you.
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  18. #17 Re: Computer models for mechanical processes 
    Forum Ph.D. streamSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia
    Do you make your research with the help of computer?
    I research dynamics of mechanical systems, both discrete and distributed. Equations which I need to solve for analyzing dynamic processes are very complicated. It’s impossible to solve them analytically. So I need to create a numerical model for my mechanical system.
    Do you know programs for investigating mechanical systems?
    I know some mathematical programs such as Mathematics, Maple, MathCad. But I’ve never met soft for physicists.
    I’ll be glad if you describe soft which you work with.

    Natalia, I studied medicine for five or so years, and was able to decipher a mathematical algorithm "relevant" to a virtual intelligence interacting with a virtual space-time environment, based of course on the logic of human thought and percetion.

    I am unsure if that would help you, that algorithm.
    Does a theory of everything therefore need to be purely theoretical and only account for the known laws and forces in handling the improbability of fortune telling?

    the www feature below can explain it better.
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  19. #18  
    Forum Professor river_rat's Avatar
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    Sounds like you need a finite difference scheme then (how about the Crank-Nicolson method?). Matlab is usually the easiest language for this sort of thing. The problem then becomes one of solving large sparse linear systems and matlab is very good at doing that
    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
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  20. #19  
    Forum Freshman Natalia's Avatar
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    bit4bit
    Maybe we don’t know all laws and because of it can’t verify some things? I mean there are many lows and things which haven’t opened yet

    GhostofMaxwell
    I thank you anyway!
    Which subject of Physics are you studying? Do you use programs for illustration your results? I mean graphics, diagrams, movies.

    streamSystems
    I’m not working with virtual intelligence. But it sounds to be a very interesting and useful algorithm. Did you use it someway in real things?

    river_rat
    Thank you!
    I don’t know about Crank-Nicolson method Have you any links to sites where I could find information about this method
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  21. #20  
    Forum Ph.D. streamSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia
    streamSystems
    I’m not working with virtual intelligence. But it sounds to be a very interesting and useful algorithm. Did you use it someway in real things?


    I did, but that's classified.
    Does a theory of everything therefore need to be purely theoretical and only account for the known laws and forces in handling the improbability of fortune telling?

    the www feature below can explain it better.
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  22. #21  
    Forum Masters Degree bit4bit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia
    bit4bit
    Maybe we don’t know all laws and because of it can’t verify some things? I mean there are many lows and things which haven’t opened yet
    Well, yes thats very true. Once upon a time the Earth was thought to be flat, and at the centre of universe. It is through the collective imagination, and scientific persistence of our greatest minds that our physical understanding today, has came to exist. (In this case challenges were made against the beliefs of the catholic church which didn't go down to well apparently - but not surprisingly). Questioning new (or old for that matter) scientific avenues will always be important for any kind of progression, but equally, verifiable proofs, preferably alongside some consistent experimental data, will ensure that the progression is 100% logical.

    Until such verification is found, there will always be arguments amongst members of the scientific community, to what is true and what isn't. Without this all we have is opinion. There are many such areas in modern physics at the moment that are like this (and there probably always will be), but eventually, as they always do, holes will most likely be filled.

    bit4bit
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  23. #22  
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia

    GhostofMaxwell
    I thank you anyway!
    Which subject of Physics are you studying?
    Im just doing a pretty well fixed approved honours(relativity, QM etc...).Then hopsies a research degree in astrophysics, if money allows.

    Do you use programs for illustration your results? I mean graphics, diagrams, movies.
    Not really, but briefly sometimes. I'll have to check my notes as to which I've used.
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  24. #23  
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia
    Maybe we don’t know all laws and because of it can’t verify some things? I mean there are many lows and things which haven’t opened yet
    That is so true....and why scientists still have a job.
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  25. #24  
    Forum Ph.D. streamSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by streamSystems
    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia
    streamSystems
    I’m not working with virtual intelligence. But it sounds to be a very interesting and useful algorithm. Did you use it someway in real things?


    I did, but that's classified.

    Apologies.

    My evil twin self was trying to be charming.

    The real answer is of course that the real-mechanical working operation is the human body, from which I derived the mathematical algorithm of percetion mechanical push-pull function.
    Does a theory of everything therefore need to be purely theoretical and only account for the known laws and forces in handling the improbability of fortune telling?

    the www feature below can explain it better.
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  26. #25  
    Forum Freshman Natalia's Avatar
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    bit4bit
    And there are arguments about some subjects which have been opened and proved already. For example some people don’t believe in Darwin theory! It seems that it is very difficult to “fill holes” in science against stable opinion of people. :? Do you know about Fomenko theory about history? Most people don’t believe in it in spite of many proves.

    GhostofMaxwell

    Scientists will always have a job. Especially in astrophysics. There are many things unresearched!

    streamSystems
    You’d better control you “evil twin” if he disturb you so
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  27. #26  
    Forum Ph.D. streamSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalia

    streamSystems
    You’d better control you “evil twin” if he disturb you so

    I'll let him know.
    Does a theory of everything therefore need to be purely theoretical and only account for the known laws and forces in handling the improbability of fortune telling?

    the www feature below can explain it better.
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