Thread: Dark matter, dark energy, negative refraction???

Aren't all of these just answers to problems, which astronmers don't have any idea about? Do they really mean anything?

LOL, kind of like multiple planes of existence and warps and tears in space time. I think dark matter has something to do with places in space where matter appears to be void? Actually I have no clue...someone enlighten us please

As far as dark matter and dark energy are concerned, they are indeed names given to things that astronomers really don't understand. There is an effect that needs to be explained (lots have been put forth). 90% of the mass of the universe seems to be invisible based on models and the observed motions of galaxies and galaxy clusters (dark matter) and the universal expansion seems to be accelerating (dark energy). I think that the best theory for these effects may lie in the Higgs field and associated Higgs particles. They're looking, but haven't found any yet.

Edit:

The Higgs field and interactions of Higgs fields is the mechanism wherby most mass in the universe arises. This is predicted by Supersymmetric Standard Models. Higgs bosons would be direct evidence of the Higgs field (which has a non-zero value throughout the universe).

Is dark matter made up of black holes? it confuses me? Is phantom energy really a problem which could end our universe?

It could also be that our basis of measuring time (aka movement) has been changing causing us to think the universe is speeding up in it's outward movement when in fact it is us that is slowing down.

Think of it this way, if you have an explosion in the center (big bang) and everything starts to fly outwards and the observer (us) happen to be on the outside edge of such explosion we would in fact start to slow down while everything in the middle observer from a distance appears to still be traveling outward at a faster rate. So our velocity constantly slows faster then toward the center of the explosion. Also you approach the fragments that have already started to slow at what appears to be an accelerated rate.

To envision this one would have to picture a traditional explosion that spans billions of years. At the beginning everything would be moving very very fast, once the first fragments traveled a great distance and started to reach more toward the outside edges it would appear to the observer that the fragments more toward the middle are coming at them at an accelerated rate in relation to the rest of the fragments around you. Also it would appear you are closing in on fragments even more outward of the center. The outside edges have slowed even more then you have and the inside is still moving very fast. So it would appear the inside is moving quickly toward you and it would appear you are moving quickly toward the outside.

I'm not sure if this makes any sense. Also do they think the outside edges are leaving us at a faster rate, as in we are not approaching them. Perhaps they have the center wrong? Perhaps more then one explosion?

Originally Posted by superluminal

I think that the best theory for these effects may lie in the Higgs field and associated Higgs particles.

Would you mind explaining exactly why you think this?

Just interested.

Would you mind explaining exactly why you think this?

Sure.

It's my understanding that Higgs field interactions are the cause of the masses of all elementary particles, according to the SM and SSM (Standard Model and Supersymmetric Standard Model). It is postulated that subtle, as yet unknown interactions could be responsible at least for dark matter in the form of a light superpartner particle or particles.

As for dark energy, the action of the universally non-zero Higgs field could lead to an explanation for accelerating cosmic expansion.

Ok?

one of the things that confuses me about dark energy is that for it to accelerate the expansion of the universe wouldn't it have to have negetive energy proporties.

if this is true then it would by all means create a negetive gravitational force and travel back in time?

but that can't be right... correct me please.

Originally Posted by superluminal

It is postulated that subtle, as yet unknown interactions could be responsible at least for dark matter in the form of a light superpartner particle or particles.

As for dark energy, the action of the universally non-zero Higgs field could lead to an explanation for accelerating cosmic expansion.

Ok?

Hmm. I geuss you misunderstood my question. I was more interested in hearing about the personal journey which led you to that conclusion.

Ive come to contemplate that dark matter, or dark energy, or zero point vacuum could well be tied or linked into the very essence of perceivable matter, giving it it's vibrational propeties, like a hidden power supply, feeding all those virtual elements that keep matter in its constant state. If percievable matter is infact a set of vibrational frequencies that we are atuned to with our senses, then its quite wonderful to postulate that our physical uinverse is a set of symbiotic vibration's which define our experiances.

Guitarist:

Hmm. I geuss you misunderstood my question. I was more interested in hearing about the personal journey which led you to that conclusion.

Ok. Well, it all started with a subscription to Scientific American. This was a life choice I made long ago and began to regret as it made me think about stuff. As the years passed, and I read article after article, I realized that thinking about stuff was kind of neat. One day, an article came along which described the Higgs field and how it might provide deep insight into the very nature of matter itself. In my post I regurgitated some of what I had read and some of my own thoughts as well. I think that usually makes an interesting mix.

Do you take exception to Higgs fields, Higgs bosons, or their relationship to mass in the universe?

Do you take exception to Higgs fields, Higgs bosons, or their relationship to mass in the universe?

I suspect he's trying to get at why you believe in the Higgs field and etc... Do you understand the mathematics and physics involved or just following scientific trends. That sort of thing. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Invert,

Well, you may know that I'm just a lowly embedded systems engineer. I am not a physicist and I don't have the math or training at nearly that level. If that's what's required to post here then I am doomed.

However, I will continue to post in my doomed fashion...

Edit: I never said believe btw. I think I said "it is postulated..." and "It's my understanding..." If that makes any difference?

So, Guitar man, what's your point?

Originally Posted by superluminal

Do you take exception to Higgs fields, Higgs bosons, or their relationship to mass in the universe?

No, not in the slightest. I guess I was just rattling your cage, to try and get a half-way intelligent conversation going.

Oh. I am pretty familiar with the Higgs field, by the way.

Guitarist:

Oh. I am pretty familiar with the Higgs field, by the way

Cool. More than me I'm sure. Are you a physicist? If so, then do you know what the best projections are for a realistic attempt at the energies required to conclusively yield a Higgs boson? If found I imagine things will get verrrry interesting.

Originally Posted by superluminal

Are you a physicist? If so, then do you know what the best projections are for a realistic attempt at the energies required to conclusively yield a Higgs boson?

No and no, but we can talk about the Higgs if you want, although as this site doesn't support math symbols it might be rather superficial.

And, oh. To somebody, me for example, who doesn't know the difference between "an embedded systems engineer" and a hole the ground, it doesn't sound the slightest bit lowly.

Guitarist:

...although as this site doesn't support math symbols it might be rather superficial.

Yep. I enjoy the LaTex capability at PhysicsForums (don't really post there too much). Would it be so hard to get that here, in a science/math forum?

And, oh. To somebody, me for example, who doesn't know the difference between "an embedded systems engineer" and a hole the ground, it doesn't sound the slightest bit lowly.

Actually a senior embedded systems engineer. I design systems using microprocessors and microcontrollers to implement specific functions. I design the hardware and the embedded code. Anything that has a micro in it that's not a PC is an embedded system.

I probably couldn't handle more than the most basic math anyway. But qualitatively, I think that showing (by detecting a Higgs particle) that the universe is pervaded by a non-zero Higgs field, that's responsible for all elementary particle masses, would be exciting as hell! Until I read about Higgs I had no idea we were even close to understanding why things have mass at all. Extremely cool.

Originally Posted by superluminal

Yep. I enjoy the LaTex capability at PhysicsForums (don't really post there too much). Would it be so hard to get that here, in a science/math forum?

You would know better than I would. But simple HTML tags get you a long way. Look. How does this render.....α Works fine on most other sites, LaTex supported or not. Anyway, that's the bosses business.

Actually a senior embedded systems engineer.

Yo! Senior.

Until I read about Higgs I had no idea we were even close to understanding why things have mass at all. Extremely cool.

Remember, though, it's just a theory.

I've got a stack of notes somewhere. Want to do it? All third-hand stuff, obviously.

PS(edit) I found them, rather jumbled. But hey. We have an excellent tradition here (UK). Friday night, get a couple of beers on board. So, if you don't mind..........

Lethe?

no chance. I suspected someoneelse, again cannot be.

Guitarist,

I've got a pretty good idea of what the theorized Higgs field is about from the latest SA article and some web reading. I'm pretty comfortable knowing the general framework of the thing and what it implies. Too much detail makes me queasy.

Unless you have some really cool stuff that's generally not talked about re Higgs? I'm always up for a lesson...

can anyone tell me, in simple terms, what the Higgs field/particle is?

i heard it has something to do with supersymetry but havn't found anything else.

I don't understand it in details too. It is a hypermassive virtual particle, very short-living, which Standard Model requires. The math which derives it however is very complicated and I don't believe them about it.

What is the Dark Matter?
I think that there are several simple explanations but they goes far beyond the limits of curent physical understandings. Suppose for example that gravitons has mass. It is a very, very small mass. But if gravitons are too much then maybe their total mass would be large. I think that the answer is something simple like that but they are going in the wrong course. The Higgs are misunderstanding.

By the way I would like to note that web administrators of sciforums.com are very big imbaciles. They had fucked-up a very good forum!

Originally Posted by XGen

I don't understand it in details too......... The math which derives it however is very complicated and I don't believe them about it.

If you don't understand it, how can you not believe it? On the other hand, if you think the math is flawed, perhaps you could show us where?

Originally Posted by wallaby

can anyone tell me, in simple terms, what the Higgs field/particle is?

The Higgs field is a hypothetical beast with the following attributes. It is a self-interacting complex-valued scalar field defined over all spacetime, which on quantitization yields a massive boson, the Higgs boson .

It is postulated to give mass to other elementary particles through its interactions with them.

And is non-zero in magnitude in it's lowest energy state in the universe at large.