Thread: TIME DILATION

Ok i see this topic has been discused before but there are a few things i dont understand, well alot actually so ill start with this an we will see if i make sence...

So say i can travel half the speed of light and i have an atomic clock an so does the observer. now i travel for exactly 8 hours from earth. Now as im traveing i look at my clock it ticks over same time as normal the obsever if he looks at his clock it is ticking away same time as normal.. now lets say he can see me traveling at half the speed of light he watches me leave and come back... now the thing i cant work out is how does he lose time.. now lets say he can see my clock while i am traveling. as iv read his clock would look like its going slower to the observer an visa versa. Now im going to asume this is because of the time it takes for him to see the change in my clock because im is traveling away from him half the speed of light so therefor he would only see the clock going half its normal speed right now the further i get away the longer it will take for him to see the time change because im traveling half the speed of light..(i hope im mkeing sence) Now when i look at my clock i would see it going like normall.. ok so say i turn around and come back as i get closer to him my clock will speed up to the obsever. so say its been like him looking at a still shot of my clock while im traveling away its takeing time for the changes to reach me.. ok so my point here is where do we lose the time. because im only traveling half the speed of light from earth but from my craft you could say the universe or earth is traveling away from me an im really the one not moveing so there for his clock will be the one going at normal time an mine is going slow... ok thats all i have to say for now i hope you can see the point im trying to make here and im not as smart as alot of you people on here so im haveing trouble understanding this so if someone could try explain it an explain how the time can change. and even if u could show me a link to a site where someone has proved time dilation. Thanks to anyone that can reply an to those who took the time to read this an become possibly confused...

Changes are the forces of gravity are impacting the internal movements of atoms. Thus mechanical motion slows down, even if it's quartz operated. People would even age at a slower rate. So far I don't think anyone has done any research to prove or disprove this idea, so I'm just guessing. Time is after all a measurement of the movement of matter and energy. Nothing more, nothing less. Hollywood would love you to think otherwise.

So if your clock is loosing time then the movement of matter must be slowing down. It's kind of like walking into the wind, sure the wind is moving really fast but your not walking as fast because of the force working against you.

So that force which we still have yet to explain (gravity) is working against the atoms in the clock. I'm sure I'll get a bunch of people with lots of theories on time and such trying to prove otherwise. I have yet to see a single shred of evidence that suggests time is anything more then a man made measurement.

So (In)Sanity,
What you are saying is that you do not think there would be an age difference. The time dialations that have been proven from the bottom of a building to the top are just due to problems of the measurement then? I think thats what your saying, correct me if I am wrong. That is an interesting concept. I am eager to here the responses.

Originally Posted by ericwernli

So (In)Sanity,
What you are saying is that you do not think there would be an age difference. The time dialations that have been proven from the bottom of a building to the top are just due to problems of the measurement then? I think thats what your saying, correct me if I am wrong. That is an interesting concept. I am eager to here the responses.

No, I think traveling at a high rate of speed would in fact cause an age difference, but only on a biological subatomic level. Time has nothing to do with it, time is a measurement of the movements of matter and energy. The effects of speed on matter is another story. Everyone keeps wanting to make time out as something it is not.

Ohh by the way, Welcome to the forum. Even if we do have a few cold characters here, some of us are social to a small degree and will not rip your head off in five seconds or less

I too, would take the time to give you welcome to The Science Forum. Sorry I haven't been here much this week. I got infected with the latest round of trojans and it has made pc life difficult.

I have read somewhere that they have atomic clock in planes an that after long flights at high speeds the times are diffrent to those that are at the airport clocks.. Now im not sure if this is true or what the diffrences are. But its got me intrested. I like to see proof or a explanation i can make some sence of before i can beleive it. And i have not read anything yet on gravity affecting time. would the time diffrence in zero gravity be diffrent to the to the time on earth. I do have a million questions to ask i have tried to find sites to read about all this. but i seem to come across the same explanations everytime. they basicly all say the faster you move the slower time goes. Ok so in zero gravity and im moving half the speed of light and someone else is not then my time must slow down to theres. but from my point if there is nothing i csn see but them you could asume they are the one that is moving half the speed of light away from me. and im really not moving at all. I have alot of questions if you guys know anywhere i can look up something on these theorys would be great .no doubt i will come back and ask more questions...

My friend wants to know because i cant explain it enough to him to make sence of it.. Why does time slow down the faster you go.. and he doesnt want the explanation to be that if some guy is in a space ship traveling away for a certain amout of time at half the speed of light that time will slow down. he has herd that explanation alot and wants to know why it actually slows down what slows down how... Why if the guy on the ground count for an hour, and the guy in the ship counts for an hour he will have less time... Why if a guy in a car puts a tourch out side the car an turns it on while the car is traveling at 100kmh if someone was looking from a standing point how fast would the light be moveing..

Your still thinking of time as some object, it's not. Time is only a measurement. So if time speeds up or slows down this translates in to matter or energy slowing down or speeding up.

You have to figure that the tests we do in zero gravity are still at the same basic speed. If we put some test module in space that orbits our planet then it is still moving very very fast. I would like to see a test on this so called impact on time done with absolute zero movement, in this case the universe would be rushing past the test module.

It's one thing to put something in space and say, hey look it's not moving at all. It's another to actually put something in space that has zero velocity. We would loose sight of it very quickly.

So, be careful with those zero gravity experiments that they are in fact zero movement also.

Ok im going to keep anoying you till i understand this better.i drew an exaple of someone leaveing space at 99% the speed of light now they are going to travel to a star 6 light years away so lets say its going to take them 12 light years all round trip. so draw earth then a line strait up that will be them leaveing numberd with a mark for how far they have gone every year. now on the return trip it should be the same seen as though they are traveling the same speed. ok so on both side it should be numberd from 1-6 on both lines thats how long it will also take for that light to reach earth so as this person leaves if they had a bright light u would see a blured line for 6 years one way and a blured linew for 6 year trip home


6| * |6 Thats our star
5| |5
4| |4
3| |3
2| |2
1| |1
O O=earth and observer

ok now lets say he is flown 3 light years away from earth. now this obsever should see a blured line from 1 to 3 right and so on.. ok on the 6th year he reaches the star we will see a line like i have put in there an it will have taken the same time to reach us correct.

ok now lets say it takes 6 years for us to see the light from when he arives at the star. so he should allready be home by the time we see his ship at the star.. so then will he be able to see his return trip
I know this is becoming anoying but i find it very hard to understand i need to picture it in my head. anyway see what you can do with this and tell me at what point the time dilation occors and how. if you dont mind. please feel free to comment on this anyway

Now your talking more space/time. Everything we see is always old (in the past), the light coming from your computer screen takes a quantity of time to reach your eyes, your optic nerves take a quantity of time to process the information and send it to your brain, etc,etc.

The speed of light, the speed of sound, the speed of a bullet. It all ends up having the same impact on how we see things.

It would really get more interesting if one could travel beyond the speed of light, in such a case you could arrive before the image of you leaving has left. Not really your physical self.

High speed bullet hits, sound follows.

Place a mirror 6 light years away, fire a very high powered laser at this mirror (after calculating where it is). Wait for the light to return, how many years have passed? 12. It's no different then if you sent a man off at the speed of light and waited for him to come back. My mirror example would be hard to test as you would have to figure out where the mirror would be in 6 years and where the light would return to in 6 years. Everything is always moving. So in this case just use a fixed mirror, fixed laser with zero movement.

Too much voodoo science going around still. I think Star Trek captured the imagination of many and has warped the sense of logic. I'm far from the only one that thinks this way. Then again logic and common sense don't sell many books.

Again, if your swiss made quartz watch is running slow while your traveling really fast it would stand to reason the mechanical or even electronic device is being influenced by the speed, not time. Time is not an object.

thanks for the replys i think i understand now correct me if i am wrong..
but basicly at just less then the speed of light atoms slow down.. So a clock on earth that was to read an exact same time as another clock that was going to reach near light speed. would basicly be only a guide of the time dilation.. So a simple way to say this that if a clock could fly an reach such high speeds it would slow down. and really the clock and its components are the only thing relavant at a high speed.
so in a sence its not time travel well its time travel its just slow time travel. i think you have probably best explained time dilation than anyone else iv read up on.. its really simple there is no time travel just time dilation. So i wonder now what would happen if you could exceed the speed of light maybe thats when it could become intresting..

I think you have my point of view, however there will be many that will say I'm on crack The fact of the matter is all the other theories I've read don't even attempt to explain why this happens. I came up with the logical answer. Right or wrong I'm sticking to it until someone comes along with a better more logical answer. As I said before, there is a lot of voodoo science going around from some very respected people, it makes them money, it sells their books. Others while not wrong on the effects don't explain the why's. So many still try to push time travel, warping of time, etc. In reality you can not warp time, only matter and energy, time chances only because we are measuring the matter and energy.

If you go back to my mirror concept, shooting a laser beam at a mirror 6 light years away the light is still gone for 6 years out and 6 years back, the mirror ages 12 years as do the people sitting back home waiting for it. The light has been gone for 12 years so we would have to expect it too would be 12 years older. Now when it comes to matter things may somehow change, if we shot a bullet at close to the speed of light the same distance and waited for it to ricochet that bullet may actually age less. The only reason that makes sense is the fact that it's impacted on a sub atomic level by the high rates of speed. If you tried to alter the course of the bullet that force working on it sure would be felt.

See i think the problem iv had alot and so will others is that time was not explained before they went on to explain there theory on time affected by speed as they say. Its like you get brain washed into thinking you are time traveling.. i think you have made the best point iv seen yet your theory makes sence. see everyone else just says time travel is possible at high speeds. they alsay that u go faster u come back u are younger they are older. for no good reson. its like the people with this theory want to make us belive the entire planet we left changed just for us so we could see the future when in actual fact you have changed for them.
i spent some time to have a look at the forums so i can see you have tried to explain this alot. See so far i have not found an explanation anywhere that makes sence. Do you know where i could find a place where someone has said there theory why time travel is possible at high speed. But i would like to see something more then you go fast an time stops for you, Thats how easy it is. I dont like that as an explanation...
I think when you explain this to the next person you should tell people that not only does a clock slow down at high speeds but so does everything else doing the same speed like people would slow down right. So if you a clock a dog a cat are all in a ball traveling at near light speed
not only will your clock slow down so will the dog the cat and you.. if i was told that first it would have made sence to me strait away.. see everything iv read says time slows down aand thats it.. anyway its an intresting topic i think i would like to see someone come up with a theory and a way to make it make sence like you have. know anywhere i can look

Yes, to so many people science becomes a religion. They are not willing often to step back and look at things from another angle. They only see what the brilliant minds have taught them. In the end if they were so brilliant why didn't they explain or at least try to explain why something happens and not just that it does. I'm not the only person to think along the same lines, I did however come to my own conclusions based on logical analysis. In the end questions still remain, however I feel they could be answered and not just continuously theorized on.

We know that if one could stop the movement of matter at the sub-atomic level that that object would not age. So my theory simply says extreme speed just makes matter move slower internally and thus everything slows and ages less. The objects or people involved would not realize this was happening.

So in theory travelers from another world may actually be able to do just that, they may feel they are gone for 2 days when they were in fact gone for years. Outside the ship would be buzzing by at incredible speeds, inside the ship would be moving very slowly. They would have to realize this effect and make all maneuvers based on it. To them it may actually appear they are traveling much faster then they are. Think of it this way, if I had a stopwatch calibrated on earth and I took off in a ship traveling at say half the speed of light to a distant star and I used that stopwatch to time how long it took to get from point to point I would be under the impression my speed was much faster. The speed would be the same, the watch would be moving slower making one think the velocity was greater. Only an outside observer could see the real speed.

Thanks for the welcome. From your last post, you said that a traveler would feel gone for two days when really gone for years etc. I have heard if you were to be falling into a black hole, you would speed up near the speed of light, etc. I had heard that since the traveler slows down that it would seem an eternity of falling. Was that supposed to be what the observer would see (see the ship falling in for an eternity therefore looking like its not moving) or does this contradict what your theory says that the observer would think he is going faster. If the traveler sees it taking an eternity to go in, then he would know he has slowed down.
Excuse my ignorance, and thank you for not trying to rip my head off.

Originally Posted by ericwernli

Thanks for the welcome. From your last post, you said that a traveler would feel gone for two days when really gone for years etc. I have heard if you were to be falling into a black hole, you would speed up near the speed of light, etc. I had heard that since the traveler slows down that it would seem an eternity of falling. Was that supposed to be what the observer would see (see the ship falling in for an eternity therefore looking like its not moving) or does this contradict what your theory says that the observer would think he is going faster. If the traveler sees it taking an eternity to go in, then he would know he has slowed down.
Excuse my ignorance, and thank you for not trying to rip my head off.

No, that sounds about right. The question remains does the perception in the mind slow down if matter has slowed down internally.

If your traveling at close to the speed of light then forward movement can never exceed the speed of light, so if you brain works on electrical impulses or even light based impulses them those impulses could never reach their normal speed in certain directions because they would be breaking the law that nothing can travel faster then the speed of light. The same would hold true to any movement within an atom. So the closer you get to the speed of light the slower matter and energy could travel forward. In all reality stopping all together when reaching the speed of light. As we know all sub atomic particles orbit around another object then they would in a sense become frozen not able to move forward a full revolution as they could not break the speed of light law.

Hey! interesting subject:

Got me to reading a little bit of Eisteins theory of special relativity.

Insanity seems to be going in the right direction on this.

Anyhow I just budged in to drop you all a link

http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/th...elativity.html

The above may help Tommy explain it to his friend.

G.

Thanks to everyone that has read and reply...
I have yet another question.
Ok so now i understand what happens when you can get near the speed of light. The next thing is how do we do this
I read somewhere that the faster you go the bigger the mass. now rockets are designed on stage boosts to make them go further and faster and it seems to be affective. now in space this would have to work better right because you have no gravity. so lets say you wanted to get soemthing to try an go say 25% the speed of light, What is going to have to be the propties of it. What i mean is does it have to have some sort of power to weight ratio because in space weight mean nothing right so lets say we made a rocket that was extremly long and we would need a rocket that could run in stages to make it go faster every stage... What does anyone think about this is there going to be a way to acheive this. we cant go the speed of light but i dont think anyone has said we cant go close. well people probably cant but maybe we can get an object to. please tell me your thoughts on this.

Originally Posted by Tommy4711

Thanks to everyone that has read and reply...
I have yet another question.
Ok so now i understand what happens when you can get near the speed of light. The next thing is how do we do this
I read somewhere that the faster you go the bigger the mass. now rockets are designed on stage boosts to make them go further and faster and it seems to be affective. now in space this would have to work better right because you have no gravity. so lets say you wanted to get something to try an go say 25% the speed of light, What is going to have to be the propties of it. What i mean is does it have to have some sort of power to weight ratio because in space weight mean nothing right so lets say we made a rocket that was extremely long and we would need a rocket that could run in stages to make it go faster every stage... What does anyone think about this is there going to be a way to achieve this. we cant go the speed of light but i don't think anyone has said we cant go close. well people probably cant but maybe we can get an object to. please tell me your thoughts on this.

Not my area really, I do know you still have mass to overcome. If you shoot a slingshot in space the projectile would still hurt like hell and have even more impact behind it (no wind drag). So it still takes power to propel mass. The difference is it won't keep slowing down and require more power to maintain it's speed. So in theory a tiny tiny power source could over thousands of years propel something to near light speed. This is of course assuming nothing gets in the way, or the object doesn't get too close to a source of gravity.

The problem isn't weight but inertia since it still has mass. I read that it would take more energy than we have on earth to accellerate to near the speed of light with conventional rockets, might be wrong. But the idea of adding a little force over a long time is a good one. The ion propulsion engine on the Deep Space Probe supposedly puts out a force that is equal to a peice of paper sitting on your hand. But over time since it just adds to what your already doing instead of using the force to maintain velocity, you end up with great speeds. The solar sails use this idea too. I would like to see haow fast these could go and how long it would take to reach 90 percent of the speed of light.