Notices
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: the cause of magnetism

  1. #1 the cause of magnetism 
    Forum Senior miomaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    302
    What is the cause of magnetism?
    If one takes two magnets and holds them to each other it will either repel or attract each other.
    How come is this so?
    Why does the magnet repel itself and seemingly push itself away from the other magnet. The magnetic field is known to me, it seems that we know allot about magnets, but whets really happening is unknown.

    Pleas don’t explain what a magnetic fled or such is
    if you don't know what magnetism is look at this:


    wikipedia

    thank you,

    miomaz


    I haven't come to fight my word, but to find the truth.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Professor river_rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    1,517
    Magnetism is actually a relativistic effect - it has to do with special relativity and the geometry that carries along into electrodynamics.

    How deep an explanation are you after, as things get sticky very quickly here.


    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Senior miomaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    302
    how come does the magnet act if it would collide with some substance while the 2 magnetic fields collide?
    I haven't come to fight my word, but to find the truth.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    12
    electric field is produced by any charge. magnetic field can only be produced by moving charges (like in a current for example)

    look up the biot-savart law to find out exactly how much magnetic field is generated by a moving charge
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5 attractive 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Friendly Neighbourhood...
    Posts
    5
    magnets apply a force which can be felt at a distance. this concept can be explained only with the help of vectoe magnetic fields. as in the case of gravity.
    I and only I represent the FOURTH DIMENSION.

    I have powers that even homosapiens dont posses

    HYPERCUBE RULES
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Senior miomaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    302
    Nice but... you haven't answered the question.
    You have explained how they are made and how they are explained, but what repells? It seems to me that magnets have its own little space dimansion which is ofcourse impossible.
    I haven't come to fight my word, but to find the truth.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Senior
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    399
    In 1819 Hans Christian Oersted observed that a wire carrying a current could deflect a compass needle, this implied that a current in a wire produces a magnetic field. It was later realized that the magnetism in a material could be explained by considering moving electrical charges on an atomic level. Due to its orbit and spin, an electron can be treated as a current, producing a magnetic moment; the nucleus also has a magnetic moment associated with the spin of its protons, but it is only about 1/2000 of the magnetic electron spin moment. When atoms condense to form a crystal, the orbits are largely fixed to the atomic bonds; the resulting spin moments - partially diminished by next-neighbour interactions - can then be rotated by an applied field, this mechanism is principally responsible for a material’s magnetization.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by miomaz View Post
    What is the cause of magnetism?
    If one takes two magnets and holds them to each other it will either repel or attract each other.
    How come is this so?
    Why does the magnet repel itself and seemingly push itself away from the other magnet. The magnetic field is known to me, it seems that we know allot about magnets, but whets really happening is unknown.

    Pleas don€™t explain what a magnetic fled or such is
    if you don't know what magnetism is look at this:

    thank you,

    miomaz
    Magnetism is caused by electrical currents and only electrical currents.

    checkout: h t t p://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/node77.html

    The electrons in the material align, the inner ones canceling out and the current flows along the outside of the material. Contrary to popular belief it has nothing to do with Special relativity or general relativity, but Maxwell's equations and electrodynamics. It is a basic understanding in electrical engineering, which it seems a lot more people need to study up on.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Western US
    Posts
    2,945
    Quote Originally Posted by sjw40364 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by miomaz View Post
    What is the cause of magnetism?
    If one takes two magnets and holds them to each other it will either repel or attract each other.
    How come is this so?
    Why does the magnet repel itself and seemingly push itself away from the other magnet. The magnetic field is known to me, it seems that we know allot about magnets, but whets really happening is unknown.

    Pleas don’t explain what a magnetic fled or such is
    if you don't know what magnetism is look at this:

    thank you,

    miomaz
    Magnetism is caused by electrical currents and only electrical currents.

    checkout: h t t p://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/node77.html

    The electrons in the material align, the inner ones canceling out and the current flows along the outside of the material. Contrary to popular belief it has nothing to do with Special relativity or general relativity, but Maxwell's equations and electrodynamics. It is a basic understanding in electrical engineering, which it seems a lot more people need to study up on.
    The OP presumably has by now gotten the answer he/she wanted 7 years ago.

    As for the "only electrical currents" part of your answer, that declaration could be misconstrued to exclude spin. That would be unfortunate, for spin actually dominates ferromagnetism, for example.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sjw40364 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by miomaz View Post
    What is the cause of magnetism?
    If one takes two magnets and holds them to each other it will either repel or attract each other.
    How come is this so?
    Why does the magnet repel itself and seemingly push itself away from the other magnet. The magnetic field is known to me, it seems that we know allot about magnets, but whets really happening is unknown.

    Pleas don€™t explain what a magnetic fled or such is
    if you don't know what magnetism is look at this:

    thank you,

    miomaz
    Magnetism is caused by electrical currents and only electrical currents.

    checkout: h t t p://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/node77.html

    The electrons in the material align, the inner ones canceling out and the current flows along the outside of the material. Contrary to popular belief it has nothing to do with Special relativity or general relativity, but Maxwell's equations and electrodynamics. It is a basic understanding in electrical engineering, which it seems a lot more people need to study up on.
    The OP presumably has by now gotten the answer he/she wanted 7 years ago.

    As for the "only electrical currents" part of your answer, that declaration could be misconstrued to exclude spin. That would be unfortunate, for spin actually dominates ferromagnetism, for example.
    And what is spin? The movement of electric charge, which is electric current. You can disguise those charged quarks as blue, red and green if you want, but they are charged particles. And since there is no gravitational model of the atom, i hope you wont mind if I ignore GR in any explanation.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Western US
    Posts
    2,945
    Quote Originally Posted by sjw40364 View Post
    And what is spin? The movement of electric charge, which is electric current. You can disguise those charged quarks as blue, red and green if you want, but they are charged particles. And since there is no gravitational model of the atom, i hope you wont mind if I ignore GR in any explanation.
    As I said, your answer could be misconstrued; I didn't say that it was wrong. But that doesn't mean that the explanation couldn't be improved. A reader at the level of the OP would likely not consider spin to be a source of electric current. It certainly isn't what is accommodated in things like Ohm's law, for example. Spin is an unfamiliar beast to many, but it is central to the OP's question.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Monterey
    Posts
    614
    Magnetism is caused by the speed-of-light delay in the action of the electric force.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Western US
    Posts
    2,945
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Magnetism is caused by the speed-of-light delay in the action of the electric force.
    I think that's glib to the point of being wrong. An isolated electron exhibits a nonzero magnetic moment, due to spin. Speed of light delay does not appear in any derivation with which I am familiar. If you have a reference for your statement, I would be most interested in it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,774
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schneibster View Post
    Magnetism is caused by the speed-of-light delay in the action of the electric force.
    I think that's glib to the point of being wrong. An isolated electron exhibits a nonzero magnetic moment, due to spin. Speed of light delay does not appear in any derivation with which I am familiar. If you have a reference for your statement, I would be most interested in it.
    Schneib is just trolling.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Western US
    Posts
    2,945
    Quote Originally Posted by xyzt View Post
    Schneib is just trolling.
    Most unfortunate if true.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •