Notices
Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Simulating quantum effects with classical mechanics

  1. #1 Simulating quantum effects with classical mechanics 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7
    Is it theoretically possible to simulate any quantum effects with classical mechanics, if there are no time and processing power constraints? In quantum mechanics, special mathematics is needed to include effects related to time, superposition etc. But can we still theoretically simulate all of this with perfect accuracy on a classical computer?

    The classical computer simulation should have all the effective internal interaction and the results of the simulation should be effectively the same, just the speed of events and the underlying physical form of events would differ.

    The classical computer would lack a quantum random number generator but a separate quantum random number generator could be used for that purpose. Although does the source for the random number generation make any difference if we just want to simulate possible events and end results ie. it's enough if the system just recreates everything that effectively has the same kind of chance to produce the same events and end results?

    A simulation of a simple quantum effect interaction probably doesn't have any fundamental difference to a complex one, the latter would just require more processing power?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    exchemist
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,533
    Quote Originally Posted by jimhoyle View Post
    Is it theoretically possible to simulate any quantum effects with classical mechanics, if there are no time and processing power constraints? In quantum mechanics, special mathematics is needed to include effects related to time, superposition etc. But can we still theoretically simulate all of this with perfect accuracy on a classical computer?

    The classical computer simulation should have all the effective internal interaction and the results of the simulation should be effectively the same, just the speed of events and the underlying physical form of events would differ.

    The classical computer would lack a quantum random number generator but a separate quantum random number generator could be used for that purpose. Although does the source for the random number generation make any difference if we just want to simulate possible events and end results ie. it's enough if the system just recreates everything that effectively has the same kind of chance to produce the same events and end results?

    A simulation of a simple quantum effect interaction probably doesn't have any fundamental difference to a complex one, the latter would just require more processing power?
    I'm not sure what you are asking here. On the one hand, I would say that quite plainly if we could simulate quantum effects using only classical mechanics, we would not need Quantum Mechanics! So no, we obviously can't model QM at all accurately without, er, QM.

    On the other hand, you seem also to be asking about "classical" vs. "quantum" computing. That is quite different. It is clear that QM can be and is modelled already using the existing mathematics of QM, on conventional computers. I suppose that is what you mean by "classical" computers. However there are, as always, practical limits to the complexity of the systems that can be modelled. I imagine quantum computers would add processing power, enabling more complex modelling to be feasible.

    Or am I missing your point?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,772
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    On the other hand, you seem also to be asking about "classical" vs. "quantum" computing. That is quite different. It is clear that QM can be and is modelled already using the existing mathematics of QM, on conventional computers.
    Something like this ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_simulator
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7
    Wow that was a great link. The link doesn't deny that classical computer couldn't simulate quantum phenomena. It would just slow down exponentially. Maybe any larger simulations would therefore require more time than the lifetime of the universe. But it seems that it could still work for simple enough simulations. Or do you disagree?

    Another question: if quantum phenomena is NOT required for the operation principle of a brain ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind and see critisism), do you see any reason why a brain could not be constructed using only primitive mechanical parts. I mean something like combining mechanical binary calculators https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6KjaGpcFKo into a huge (HUGE) structure. And as in my first post, I mean that the time scale is not a problem. The mechanical brain would be very slow, but run the effectively same processes and produce same results. Input/output systems would be emulated mechanically as well. Crucial is that every single process would be functional in the mechanical brain, including whatever conscious processing consists of.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,772
    Quote Originally Posted by jimhoyle View Post
    Wow that was a great link. The link doesn't deny that classical computer couldn't simulate quantum phenomena. It would just slow down exponentially. Maybe any larger simulations would therefore require more time than the lifetime of the universe. But it seems that it could still work for simple enough simulations. Or do you disagree?

    .
    I am not the person to ask. I am just interested in the question and I googled that link.It is not information I am familiar with.

    I am sure exchemist will have a better idea and maybe some others.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    KJW
    KJW is online now
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by jimhoyle View Post
    Is it theoretically possible to simulate any quantum effects with classical mechanics
    I've simulated the quantum Zeno effect using an Excel spreadsheet.
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Your Mama! GiantEvil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, Wa
    Posts
    1,910
    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
    -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.-
    Cat's Cradle.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: June 15th, 2013, 08:51 AM
  2. Classical Mechanics
    By Arcane_Mathematician in forum Physics
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: June 15th, 2009, 08:06 PM
  3. what is quantum mechanics?
    By ASTROPHYSICIST137 in forum Physics
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: April 20th, 2009, 03:32 PM
  4. quantum mechanics
    By shawngoldw in forum Physics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: July 17th, 2007, 03:41 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •